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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:03 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
He's better than the last chump and failure-in-chief who called himself our president.


As far as the painting goes, it should come as no surprise that there is a lot of resentment that a non-caucasion finally became president. Blacks didn't even have a right to vote in America until 1965, which was only a couple of years before my lifetime started.


Not really ...

In 1870 the 15th Amendment to the US constitution prohibited denying a US citizen the right to vote based on his "race, color, or previous condition of servitude". In 1920 the 19th amendment to the US constitution prohibited denying a US citizen the right to vote "on account of sex".

This does not mean that laws and other methods of disuasion were not enacted to prevent minorities and others from casting ballots.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964, to which you refer, "outlawed major forms of discrimination against racial, ethnic, national and religious minorities, and women. It ended unequal application of voter registration requirements and racial segregation in schools, at the workplace and by facilities that served the general public." It gave the federal government some "teeth" to in this area.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:08 pm 
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As for DC Boogie's topic question, this is just more propaganda by someone who doesn't like Obama for whatever reason. There are others who believe him to be some kind of savior. Both camps are just plain wrong. It's politics as usual, nothing more or less.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:32 pm 
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I like Obama. I like his demeanor. I think he's a smart guy. I think he's fair and reasoned. He likes basketball. I think he does his job well. I like that he won the presidency TWICE. I like Obama. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:05 pm 
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spaced bro wrote:
...One of the primary reasons that people have resentment towards America's first black president -----> ... Voting_Rights_Act ...
no way, bro', it was failure to deliver the downloads

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:11 am 
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Truth, propaganda or just plain stupid?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:54 am 
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phydeaux3 wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
TRUTH.


Btw, I LOVE how the socialists of this forum think we live in a Capitalist Economy. We don't. And the US hasn't since 1929 (Canada is similar). We live in a Mixed Economy (a mix of Socialism/Capitalism). THAT'S the problem. If we lived in a truly Capitalist Economy, we wouldn't be in this particular (or possibly any) economic mess. And that's of course because socialism and its related policies are at least 50% responsible for the mess itself. Most people don't realize this. They think, "Capitalism is evil and is solely responsible for this mess! So let's re-elect a socialist to come and save the day!" And unfortunately, this mindset coupled with the Liberal-bias mainstream media's assertion of such nonsense is primarily why Obama was re-elected. But in reality, what needs to happen is the complete opposite: true Capitalism (free markets and/or its related principles) is the ONLY thing that can save the day and get us out of this economic mess. Though, it's probably too late now. And like I've been explicitly stating in a few other threads recently, because of this Mixed Economy and the uneducated who unjustly hate and don't understand Capitalism, it's only going to get worse...




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polydigm wrote:
"But I got a crystal ball", he said and held it to the light,
so I snatched it all away from him and showed him how to do it right.
I wrapped a newspaper round my head so I looked like I was deep,
I said some mumbo then I told him his was going to sleep.

And seriously, DB, I've read some of the crap you write here, but "the uneducated who unjustly hate and don't understand Capitalism"?? I need JayP right now to design me some horrific object for you go fuck yourself with.


Translation:

We STILL know Disco Boy is correct, but since we're socialists who don't understand a god damn thing about Capitalism, we'll continue throwing ad-hominems and meaningless pics at him instead because that's ALL we can do...

Thinman wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
… If we lived in a truly Capitalist Economy, we wouldn't be in this particular (or possibly any) economic mess. …

Who is "we"?


ANYONE who doesn't live in a Capitalist Economy...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:00 am 
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Btw, that reminds me of something. I've noticed most FZ fans on this forum are more socialist than conservative. And considering FZ was definitely not a socialist but wasn't fully conservative either, I find the above hilarious and ironic. Though, I understand why some fans are more socialist and that's because of FZ's satirical anti-establishment slant regarding the evils of Capitalism, but not Capitalism as a whole. So, I think we should remind everyone here of what FZ thought about communism/socialism. Here goes...

Zappa on Communism (5:43 - 7:00):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ0phUpDPA4

"No, I don't wanna work for the Communists. FUCK the Communists! You know, I don't like those people!"

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:27 am 
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If you look at Disco Boy's signature, the image is clearly a demonization - not TRUTH in capital(ist) letters...

Since it's making a rough political point without being precise, I would call it propaganda.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:31 am 
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Also the assumption that we are Socialists is just his interpretation... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:33 am 
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@Disco Boy:

Just out of interest: Which countries/political systems have you visited so far? Have you ever seen real communism or socialism from the inside in eastern Europe in the days of the iron curtain? Do you have insight into to the daily life and reality of democratic societies of the European Community of today?

Just asking.

Th.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:41 am 
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That was not true socialism or communism, it is what those countries made it. I would say Sweden is probably as close to a true Socialism Country as you can find...call it socialism Lite, all the bennies without the prisons and torture...lol... :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:00 am 
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Plook wrote:
… I would say Sweden is probably as close to a true Socialism Country as you can find …

WTF? You must be trying to kid me. Or you obviously have never seen "real" Socialism or Communism (or what they made out of it as you say) from the inside, when it still existed.

Quote:
… Sweden is a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary democracy form of government and a highly developed economy. Sweden has the world's eighth highest per capita income. In 2011, it ranked fourth in the world in The Economist's Democracy Index and tenth in the United Nations' Human Development Index (third on the inequality-adjusted HDI). In 2010, the World Economic Forum ranked Sweden as the second most competitive country in the world, after Switzerland.

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden)


Edit: So, according to Plook and Disco Boy Sweden is a socialist country in a situation of economic mess, or what?

Th.

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Last edited by Thinman on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:21 am 
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Thinman wrote:
@Disco Boy:

Just out of interest: Which countries/political systems have you visited so far? Have you ever seen real communism or socialism from the inside in eastern Europe in the days of the iron curtain? Do you have insight into to the daily life and reality of democratic societies of the European Community of today?

Just asking.

Th.

Oh snap!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:13 pm 
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arrcee wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
He's better than the last chump and failure-in-chief who called himself our president.


As far as the painting goes, it should come as no surprise that there is a lot of resentment that a non-caucasion finally became president. Blacks didn't even have a right to vote in America until 1965, which was only a couple of years before my lifetime started.


Not really ...

In 1870 the 15th Amendment to the US constitution prohibited denying a US citizen the right to vote based on his "race, color, or previous condition of servitude". In 1920 the 19th amendment to the US constitution prohibited denying a US citizen the right to vote "on account of sex".

This does not mean that laws and other methods of disuasion were not enacted to prevent minorities and others from casting ballots.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964, to which you refer, "outlawed major forms of discrimination against racial, ethnic, national and religious minorities, and women. It ended unequal application of voter registration requirements and racial segregation in schools, at the workplace and by facilities that served the general public." It gave the federal government some "teeth" to in this area.


That was my point. Despite the 15th Amendment becoming law in 1870, they didn't have equal rights to vote until 1965. 95 years later. Tha was within the lifetime of many people here.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Honey Boo Boo wrote:
Btw, that reminds me of something. I've noticed most FZ fans on this forum are more socialist than conservative. And considering FZ was definitely not a socialist but wasn't fully conservative either, I find the above hilarious and ironic. Though, I understand why some fans are more socialist and that's because of FZ's satirical anti-establishment slant regarding the evils of Capitalism, but not Capitalism as a whole.




You don't know a hole in the ground from your asshole Honey Boo Boo. You don't even realise that there are Conservative Socialists. Your pal, Ron paul is one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_socialism


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:38 pm 
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Black men had the right to vote in 1870. Bottom line.

Of course they encountered resistance in the south. The Civil Rights Act changed some of that, but it was changing anyway. We could have done without the Civil Rights Act, and been in the same place we are today.

Admit, SPACEBROTHER...your statement betrays you as someone who thought blacks did not have the right to vote until 1964. Now you are peddling fast to try to deny what you said.

At the very least, you could say that you misspoke, instead of laying down some bullshit cover for your ignorance.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:43 pm 
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A rope leash wrote:
Black men had the right to vote in 1870. Bottom line.

Of course they encountered resistance in the south. The Civil Rights Act changed some of that, but it was changing anyway. We could have done without the Civil Rights Act, and been in the same place we are today.

Admit, SPACEBROTHER...your statement betrays you as someone who thought blacks did not have the right to vote until 1964. Now you are peddling fast to try to deny what you said.

At the very least, you could say that you misspoke, instead of laying down some bullshit cover for your ignorance.



For all intent and purposes a large portion did not... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:49 pm 
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Warning - long post ahead...




The Civil Rights Act was enacted in 1965, not in 1870 with the 15th amendment.

I know you really want to catch me in a "gotcha" moment. You didn't.


...but if you really want to get down to specifics (pay particular attention to the pertinant parts which are bolded)...


here we go...

Transcript of Civil Rights Act (1964)

An Act

To enforce the constitutional right to vote, to confer jurisdiction upon the district courts of the United States to provide injunctive relief against discrimination in public accommodations, to authorize the Attorney General to institute suits to protect constitutional rights in public facilities and public education, to extend the Commission on Civil Rights, to prevent discrimination in federally assisted programs, to establish a Commission on Equal Employment Opportunity, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That this Act may be cited as the "Civil Rights Act of 1964".

TITLE I--VOTING RIGHTS
SEC. 101. Section 2004 of the Revised Statutes (42 U.S.C. 1971), as amended by section 131 of the Civil Rights Act of 1957 (71 Stat. 637), and as further amended by section 601 of the Civil Rights Act of 1960 (74 Stat. 90), is further amended as follows:

(a) Insert "1" after "(a)" in subsection (a) and add at the end of subsection (a) the following new paragraphs:

"(2) No person acting under color of law shall--

"(A) in determining whether any individual is qualified under State law or laws to vote in any Federal election, apply any standard, practice, or procedure different from the standards, practices, or procedures applied under such law or laws to other individuals within the same county, parish, or similar political subdivision who have been found by State officials to be qualified to vote;

"(B) deny the right of any individual to vote in any Federal election because of an error or omission on any record or paper relating to any application, registration, or other act requisite to voting, if such error or omission is not material in determining whether such individual is qualified under State law to vote in such election; or

"(C) employ any literacy test as a qualification for voting in any Federal election unless (i) such test is administered to each individual and is conducted wholly in writing, and (ii) a certified copy of the test and of the answers given by the individual is furnished to him within twenty-five days of the submission of his request made within the period of time during which records and papers are required to be retained and preserved pursuant to title III of the Civil Rights Act of 1960 (42 U.S.C. 1974--74e; 74 Stat. 88): Provided, however, That the Attorney General may enter into agreements with appropriate State or local authorities that preparation, conduct, and maintenance of such tests in accordance with the provisions of applicable State or local law, including such special provisions as are necessary in the preparation, conduct, and maintenance of such tests for persons who are blind or otherwise physically handicapped, meet the purposes of this subparagraph and constitute compliance therewith.

"(3) For purposes of this subsection--

"(A) the term 'vote' shall have the same meaning as in subsection (e) of this section;

"(B) the phrase 'literacy test' includes any test of the ability to read, write, understand, or interpret any matter."

(b) Insert immediately following the period at the end of the first sentence of subsection (c) the following new sentence: "If in any such proceeding literacy is a relevant fact there shall be a rebuttable presumption that any person who has not been adjudged an incompetent and who has completed the sixth grade in a public school in, or a private school accredited by, any State or territory, the District of Columbia, or the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico where instruction is carried on predominantly in the English language, possesses sufficient literacy, comprehension, and intelligence to vote in any Federal election."

(c) Add the following subsection "(f)" and designate the present subsection "(f)" as subsection "(g)": "(f) When used in subsection (a) or (c) of this section, the words 'Federal election' shall mean any general, special, or primary election held solely or in part for the purpose of electing or selecting any candidate for the office of President, Vice President, presidential elector, Member of the Senate, or Member of the House of Representatives."

(d) Add the following subsection "(h)":

"(h) In any proceeding instituted by the United States in any district court of the United States under this section in which the Attorney General requests a finding of a pattern or practice of discrimination pursuant to subsection (e) of this section the Attorney General, at the time he files the complaint, or any defendant in the proceeding, within twenty days after service upon him of the complaint, may file with the clerk of such court a request that a court of three judges be convened to hear and determine the entire case. A copy of the request for a three-judge court shall be immediately furnished by such clerk to the chief judge of the circuit (or in his absence, the presiding circuit judge of the circuit) in which the case is pending. Upon receipt of the copy of such request it shall be the duty of the chief justice of the circuit or the presiding circuit judge, as the case may be, to designate immediately three judges in such circuit, of whom at least one shall be a circuit judge and another of whom shall be a district judge of the court in which the proceeding was instituted, to hear and determine such case, and it shall be the duty of the judges so designated to assign the case for hearing at the earliest practicable date, to participate in the hearing and determination thereof, and to cause the case to be in every way expedited.

An appeal from the final judgment of such court will lie to the Supreme Court.

"In any proceeding brought under subsection (c) of this section to enforce subsection (b) of this section, or in the event neither the Attorney General nor any defendant files a request for a three-judge court in any proceeding authorized by this subsection, it shall be the duty of the chief judge of the district (or in his absence, the acting chief judge) in which the case is pending immediately to designate a judge in such district to hear and determine the case. In the event that no judge in the district is available to hear and determine the case, the chief judge of the district, or the acting chief judge, as the case may be, shall certify this fact to the chief judge of the circuit (or, in his absence, the acting chief judge) who shall then designate a district or circuit judge of the circuit to hear and determine the case.

"It shall be the duty of the judge designated pursuant to this section to assign the case for hearing at the earliest practicable date and to cause the case to be in every way expedited."



... "Title I" directly deals with minority voting rights. It was passed in 1965.


The technical question and answer is -

What was the importance of The Civil Rights Act of 1864?

Answer:

Enforced separate but equal. In other words, it enforced segregation. It was changed in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (100 years later) which said Segregation= Unequal= Unconstitutional.


From a technical and legal standpoint, I'm correct. Nice try though leash. You and Honey Boo Boo should go on a picnic together (maybe Ron Paul will show up so you three can discuss -----> Conservative Socialism :wink: )...

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...then afterwards we can discuss "Section (A) of Arfticle I" of the "Civil Rights Act of 1964" in depth. :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:00 pm 
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Thinman wrote:
Plook wrote:
… I would say Sweden is probably as close to a true Socialism Country as you can find …

WTF? You must be trying to kid me. Or you obviously have never seen "real" Socialism or Communism (or what they made out of it as you say) from the inside, when it still existed.

Quote:
… Sweden is a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary democracy form of government and a highly developed economy. Sweden has the world's eighth highest per capita income. In 2011, it ranked fourth in the world in The Economist's Democracy Index and tenth in the United Nations' Human Development Index (third on the inequality-adjusted HDI). In 2010, the World Economic Forum ranked Sweden as the second most competitive country in the world, after Switzerland.

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden)


Edit: So, according to Plook and Disco Boy Sweden is a socialist country in a situation of economic mess, or what?

Th.



I never said it was a mess in Sweden, in fact they are proof socialism can work just fine. The fact that they are a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary democracy form of government and a highly developed economy doesn't not make them any less Socialistic, your view of Socialism is to stereotypical.

Just because the Russia and China did it the way they did, did not make it the right way, maybe their version is something different (that is not socialism or communism).

Socialism and Communism were supposed to be a good thing, not intended to be some kind of Military state that starved the people and imprisoned anyone at will, no one would want it.

Think of what you believe is Socialism and Communism as a deformed version where something went terribly wrong in their birth.

Utopia is possible, its just man is just not evolved enough for it... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Why don't you just jump up and down and act stupid?

SPACEBROTHER said blacks did not have the right to vote until 1965.

It isn't true.

Black men had the right to vote before white women did!

You said they did not until 1965.

Stop insisting that it isn't so. You typed it, posted it, and did not edit it. It seemed as if you really thought that the Civil Rights Act gave blacks the right to vote.

Insults, yelling, copy and pasting the Civil Rights Act are all the genuflections of someone trying desperately not to admit his failures. Just fess up you were ignorant or misspoke, that's all...a little humility to go along with the arrogant hollering and the snide photo-shop displays.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:31 pm 
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A rope leash wrote:
Why don't you just jump up and down and act stupid?

SPACEBROTHER said blacks did not have the right to vote until 1965.

It isn't true.

Black men had the right to vote before white women did!

You said they did not until 1965.

Stop insisting that it isn't so. You typed it, posted it, and did not edit it. It seemed as if you really thought that the Civil Rights Act gave blacks the right to vote.

Insults, yelling, copy and pasting the Civil Rights Act are all the genuflections of someone trying desperately not to admit his failures. Just fess up you were ignorant or misspoke, that's all...a little humility to go along with the arrogant hollering and the snide photo-shop displays.




I never mentioned 1965, what I did say I will stand behind, it is as follows:

Trust me there is a lot of racism in America, I have seen it and it is alive and well.

Although Blacks have had the right to vote since 1870 we all know that they were not afforded the access to the right by way of threat and intimidation[/url], and that continues to this day.

We know that this tactic was used in the south in 2000 as one of the many variables that allowed President Bush to win his first election and they were employed again in 2004 in Ohio to secure his reelection.

They attempted again in 2012 just 3 months ago to disenfranchise hundred of thousands of voters primarily Black from voting using targeted reductions in places, times, and days that one could vote. There was no attempt to even hide the fact that these voting rules were targeted due to the fact that the most effectively reduced minority voting.

The ruse that this was somehow related to voter fraud never held water due to the fact that no one has ever been able to establish to any degree of consequence that voter fraud exist.

So if you think racism is not an issue and your white, just remember that 3 months ago a party that consists of over 70% Caucasians tried to obstruct minorities from voting and gave the reason that they were committing a crime they have no proof of, so they had to stop them from voting.

:smoke:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:41 pm 
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Yeah, what he said.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:12 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
polydigm wrote:
And seriously, DB, I've read some of the crap you write here, but "the uneducated who unjustly hate and don't understand Capitalism"?? I need JayP right now to design me some horrific object for you go fuck yourself with.
Translation: We STILL know Disco Boy is correct, but since we're socialists who don't understand a god damn thing about Capitalism, we'll continue throwing ad-hominems and meaningless pics at him instead because that's ALL we can do...
The "we" you use here implies I'm in cahoots with other people on this forum, I'm not. I am not a part of any conspiracy to discredit your messages here, besides, you're doing too good a job of that by yourself.

I took offence to your claim that anyone who dislikes Capitalism is doing so unjustly and doesn't understand it. On what basis do you justify that claim?

And, for the record, I'm pretty sure you're in no position to assess my level of awareness of the modern world or my intelligence in general.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:17 pm 
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tweedle-dee wrote:
Also the assumption that we are Socialists is just his interpretation... :smoke:


I said most fans here are more socialist than conservative. And depending on the particular quote, I didn't necessarily say most here were fully socialist. But I know some are. Pay attention. :roll:

Thinman wrote:
@Disco Boy:

Just out of interest: Which countries/political systems have you visited so far? Have you ever seen real communism or socialism from the inside in eastern Europe in the days of the iron curtain? Do you have insight into to the daily life and reality of democratic societies of the European Community of today?

Just asking.

Th.


So far, I haven't travelled outside of North America. And I don't see what that has to do with anything relevant to this discussion?

Anyway, there is NOT one UK/European country (or any country in the world) where a Socialist Economy has been and/or is established that has worked well. However, there are and have been certain types of Mixed Economies that have worked well in some countries, especially ones that have relatively small populations (Scandinavian countries, for instance).

tweedle-dumb wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Btw, that reminds me of something. I've noticed most FZ fans on this forum are more socialist than conservative. And considering FZ was definitely not a socialist but wasn't fully conservative either, I find the above hilarious and ironic. Though, I understand why some fans are more socialist and that's because of FZ's satirical anti-establishment slant regarding the evils of Capitalism, but not Capitalism as a whole.


You don't know a hole in the ground from your asshole Honey Boo Boo. You don't even realise that there are Conservative Socialists. Your pal, Ron paul is one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_socialism


Where did I say there were no such thing as Conservative Socialists? :roll:

tweedle-dee wrote:
I never said it was a mess in Sweden, in fact they are proof socialism can work just fine. The fact that they are a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary democracy form of government and a highly developed economy doesn't not make them any less Socialistic, your view of Socialism is to stereotypical.


Sweden is a type of Mixed Economy, genius. :roll:

tweedle-dee wrote:
Just because the Russia and China did it the way they did, did not make it the right way, maybe their version is something different (that is not socialism or communism).


The fuck?

tweedle-dee wrote:
Socialism and Communism were supposed to be a good thing, not intended to be some kind of Military state that starved the people and imprisoned anyone at will, no one would want it.

Think of what you believe is Socialism and Communism as a deformed version where something went terribly wrong in their birth.


And hence PROOF it doesn't work well.

tweedle-dee wrote:
Utopia is possible, its just man is just not evolved enough for it... :smoke:


Utopia is NOT possible. It never was and never will be.

polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
polydigm wrote:
And seriously, DB, I've read some of the crap you write here, but "the uneducated who unjustly hate and don't understand Capitalism"?? I need JayP right now to design me some horrific object for you go fuck yourself with.
Translation: We STILL know Disco Boy is correct, but since we're socialists who don't understand a god damn thing about Capitalism, we'll continue throwing ad-hominems and meaningless pics at him instead because that's ALL we can do...
The "we" you use here implies I'm in cahoots with other people on this forum, I'm not. I am not a part of any conspiracy to discredit your messages here, besides, you're doing too good a job of that by yourself.

I took offence to your claim that anyone who dislikes Capitalism is doing so unjustly and doesn't understand it. On what basis do you justify that claim?

And, for the record, I'm pretty sure you're in no position to assess my level of awareness of the modern world or my intelligence in general.


You DID just try to discredit my messages. Read your own posts. :roll:

Also, my claim was relating to the specific reasons why Capitalism is unjustly hated and misunderstood, not that that automatically means everyone who dislikes Capitalism hates & misunderstands it unjustly. You quoted me out of context. And there are things about Capitalism I don't like. But I still know it's a FAR better system than Socialism...

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:53 - :57...

"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5908
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
You're so predictable.

And for the educated who do understand Capitalism and justly hate it, what about them?

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


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