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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 11:48 am 
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Noam Chomsky "Requiem for an American Dream," and then back-to-back after that, "Ukraine, Winter on Fire."

The second after the first because the first points directly to the second; the first is the theory, and the second is the observations of the theory exactly playing out, word for word.

The second is what needs to happen here, but when you see it in street films in Ukraine, and compare these people to our neighbors in the US, you can see how far we have to go.

Power concedes nothing without demand, and in Ukraine we can see the extent of brutality power will exert on it's subjects in order not to concede even one millimeter.

So we have the same problem here, all of the wealth and power in the top tenth of the top 1%, and zero percent of the power with the people, (in fact we're negative because we repeatedly give our power up to the 1%).

Yes we can vote it out, but we are largely oblivious to any candidates EXCEPT the two D & R representatives of the rich...

How far is it from voting for the powerful to rob us, to marching in on congress/the white house (as they did in Ukraine), demanding the leader will resign by 10:00am or die.

I think we are a long way away in America; we're still in the controlled, complacent, cooperative stage as a result of the controls on us outlined in the Chomsky Netflix. Perhaps things will have to get as bad here as in Russia before we'll be ready to either vote, or forcibly take our country back.

Amazing to watch these two video's back to back...Chomsky describes a theory, and it is played out word for word in Ukraine, Winter on Fire.

Glory to the heros!

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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 2:37 pm 
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Chomsky? i think not, the elephant in the room is the economy, 20 TRILLION bucks in debt and growing rapidly. I have read or heard nothing from chomsky as to his thoughts on erasing that. No body is addressing the situation because an uninformed electorate doesn't want to hear it.

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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 6:37 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
the elephant in the room is the economy, 20 TRILLION bucks in debt and growing rapidly. I have read or heard nothing from chomsky as to his thoughts on erasing that. No body is addressing the situation because an uninformed electorate doesn't want to hear it.


That is exactly what all of the video is about.

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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 1:19 am 
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Winter on Fire is an incredible piece of Documentary Film. It should be shown in American High Schools. Oh! but first have the kids find "Ukraine" on a map.

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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 4:46 am 
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baddy wrote:
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
the elephant in the room is the economy, 20 TRILLION bucks in debt and growing rapidly. I have read or heard nothing from chomsky as to his thoughts on erasing that. No body is addressing the situation because an uninformed electorate doesn't want to hear it.


That is exactly what all of the video is about.



OK but what is his solution exactly?

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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 1:48 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
baddy wrote:
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
the elephant in the room is the economy, 20 TRILLION bucks in debt and growing rapidly. I have read or heard nothing from chomsky as to his thoughts on erasing that. No body is addressing the situation because an uninformed electorate doesn't want to hear it.


That is exactly what all of the video is about.


OK but what is his solution exactly?


It's not possible to give you an hour and a half of a well organized, deep, Chomsky video in a post, do you get Netflix so you can see these two videos for yourself?

In a nutshell the answer is that the power, the control over government, banking, and industry must be taken back from the very few hyper-rich who have all of the power now, and who use it to strengthen their lock on power.

The theory of how that works is explained and points are supported with examples.

Donations to the two major parties return laws favorable to the hyper-rich (and bad for us), their wealth and lock on power is strengthened each cycle.

Laws that favor the few, accelerate the transfer of wealth from the middle class to the hyper-rich, and increase taxpayer debt to the government for things the hyper-rich like to sell like war, foreign weapons grants, etc, and for direct taxpayer bailouts to banks (to the hyper-rich who are to big to fail).

The solution is the people must take back the power that they have given to the hyper-rich. (And the first job is to stop the bleeding, second job is reverse bad law advantages the rich have bought from congress).

For the largest sin on us, a very few hyper-rich investors own the central banks, ours (last I checked) is printing $59 billion dollars a month of new taxpayer debt to pay for wars and military related mostly, and this also dilutes the value of our dollars.

They print this money out of thin air, or more accurately, type it out of thin air into bank account balances, they are not "loaning us" any of their own money.

(Not in the video: Congress can print it's own money, we don't need a central bank at all. The charter surrendering money supply control was bought from congress in 1913. Interestingly, this was when the IRS was also created. The reason is what better collateral for a bank to use when printing money to loan the government than taxpayers as collateral...we cannot escape the debt).

The few hyper-rich get other law that widen the class gap, for example trade agreements that favor the hyper-rich were bought from our corrupt government in such forms as NAFTA and the WTO (now they're fast-tracking the TPP).

These trade agreements offshored our manufacturing base to third world countries of exploited labor, pitting the American worker against slave labor. When will the jobs be back? When the US is third world and we're desperate enough to compete with third world slave labor.

The scams are varied. The hyper-rich bought banking deregulation (put in place after the depression), that removed the separation of commercial and investment banking...they got their hands on our retirements...and coupled with low central bank interest, a huge housing bubble was inflated...and when that failed, WHO PAID? Us taxpayers of course, more taxpayer debt to so the hyper-rich wouldn't lose on the collapse.

So those are a couple of examples related to debt, the scams are numerous.

Just as important, the video outlines 10 things that must be done to maintain power in the hands of the few, we saw control the government and control the money supply, but there are 8 more things outlined and shown by example.

Of interest to me because it showed how opposite we are to the Ukrainians, is how we are slipping deeper and deeper into control of the hyper-rich, besides controlling out government and banks.

They control our media, thus control what we talk about and don't talk about. My favorite example of this is how this has controlled most Americans into truly believing that they can only chose one of the two corrupt representatives of the rich...candidates not under control of the rich are not on the "news," thus not even on the radar of the majority of voters.

They control us directly in losses of rights, now we can execute Americans without due process, we can arrest and imprison indefinitely without charges or access to a lawyer. Search and seizure, invasion of privacy, recording all out phone calls and emails.

And the extent of their control over us is so many Americans don't even use enough of their power to complain about it...apathetically, they just quietly let it all be taken away from them while they worry about themselves and today...now THAT'S control....even the hyper-rich get many to cheer on the ones who are about to fuck them over some more!

This explanation of course pales in comparison to the Netflix "Noam Chomsky, Requiem for the American Dream, but I tried to take a stab at it for you. Control the government, control the money, and control the people.

_____________

The other video shows a people vastly different. They had a corrupt government and they rose up against it. Their "straw that broke the camels back" was when they were promised to be signed with the EU but president Youshenko signed instead with Russia. Rather than apathetically laying down for it, s few hundred gathered in protest, which attracted more, which attracted more and soon there were thousands.

Power concedes nothing so the cops were sent in and only managed to relocate the crowd a few blocks, which was shown on TV and more came.

The cops became more brutal, beating the peaceful protestors, which was on TV and that attracted more protesters as the police violence escalated past rubber bullets into live ammo-power concedes nothing.

The first deaths of innocents brought hundreds of thousands, and they became organized to fight back against the police (can you imagine Americans doing this?), and the fighting increased...but belief in the hearts of the Ukranians stopped the police and even pushed them back....now the people are getting their power back.

Parlament made emergency laws that people couldn't gather in groups, couldn't wear helmets...which brought MORE common folk into the streets in defiance, wearing any helmets they could improvise, old ladies in the ranks wearing kitchen pots and pans.

Because protesters had been killed, and they people had their power back, they made 3 key demands, the biggest one (and they were standing outside his palace), was that President Youshenko will resign tomorrow by 10:00 am or die. And they weren't lying... Youshenko was immediately on a helicopter and gone. They were hero's, and they got their glory.

______________________________

So to see Chomsky lay it all out, and all with examples from American life, and then to see the next video with Ukrainian people so opposite to our apathetic ways, overthrow their corrupt ("convict," they shouted), president showed how far we have to go. MHO, we cant be infighting, or watching The Swan, or voting for the hyper-rich, or attempting to fight symptoms in the Whack-a-Mole game. We have to vote them out, or have a revolution to get our power back and stop this inevitable slide into the third world, it's ONLY destination of course. I'm up for either.

Sorry my typos and sorry my pale description of the videos...one really has to see them themselves and not take these words for an explanation.

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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 2:30 pm 
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"In a nutshell the answer is that the power, the control over government, banking, and industry must be taken back from the very few hyper-rich who have all of the power now, and who use it to strengthen their lock on power."

You know, I was thinking this just the other day. I've been thinking this for decades.

Chomsky just now figuring it out?

I don't think power will return to "the people", ever. There will be an economic collapse, and probably a hot war that goes nuclear. I hope it isn't that bad, but war is always how we get out of bad economic times. The debts are not payable, time to fuck everything up and start over. That's how it works.

China's got plenty to bitch about when it comes to the central bankers, which from what I understand, are the same Western Rothschild types we a fucked with. The new BRICS banking system, which is a partnership of Brazil, China, Russia, India, and South Africa, is an alternative finance system that the established Western elite cannot tolerate. Russia has already interfered in Western empire aggression, sending in forces to Syria to break up the covertly Western funded ISIL terrorist program. Russia is asking for it, and we are stupid enough to take the bait.

From what I've heard, though, flash incineration is a good way to die. So long as you don't know it's coming.

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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 2:56 pm 
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A rope leash wrote:
"In a nutshell the answer is that the power, the control over government, banking, and industry must be taken back from the very few hyper-rich who have all of the power now, and who use it to strengthen their lock on power."

You know, I was thinking this just the other day. I've been thinking this for decades.

Chomsky just now figuring it out?


Chomsky has been writing many books about it for decades; he's one of the top 5 current authors most cited on the subject.

A rope leash wrote:
"I don't think power will return to "the people", ever.


It will if we reach economic collapse, but will it be voted back through our power of the vote before that happens (don't forget, we vote for these convicts), or will it be only after we reach third world, we're making pretty good progress and it's accelerating. There are no other alternatives.

The people in those pictures above aren't saying, "we'll never get our power back."

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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 3:18 pm 
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I respect your views on voting, but I do not share them.

I know who Noam Chomsky is, fer chrissakes Jesus. To me he has always been controlled opposition, dancing around the truth instead of confronting it directly. At least he points a good trail.

Donald Trump says you don't have to worry about default on debts, so long as you are the one printing the money:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-0 ... rint-money

His idea is to renegotiate the debt, and stop borrowing. When the economy improves, buy back the debt.

This assumes that the terms of the debt are negotiable.

Tell me, baddy, to whom is it we owe the money?


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 4:44 pm 
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The only "answer" is inside of each individual, no?

Men who are selling "solutions" are just more salesmen.


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 6:47 pm 
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Of course he's a salesman.

To whom do we owe the money?


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 6:57 pm 
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A rope leash wrote:
Of course he's a salesman.



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They laughed at President Barnum too.

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 7:30 am 
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A rope leash wrote:
To whom do we owe the money?

The foreign countries that buy U.S. bonds. The U.S. sells bonds (created out of thin air) to other countries in order to print more currency. Those bonds have interest rates. China is the largest holder of U.S. bonds (U.S. debt). The U.S. is most indebted to them. China is accumulating gold at a rapid rate. When the U.S. eventually defaults and cannot pay China, China's plan will be to overthrow the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency with a gold-backed yuan.

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 10:30 am 
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Thank you for that insight, tiboure...

But, when we say we owe China money, aren't we saying we owe the Chinese central bank money? China and Japan have come a long way production-wise in the last fifty years. They are capitalistic success stories. But they didn't do it one their own, they had help from Western financiers. Is that not so? I'm speaking from a fuzzy half-ignorance here...but the point I am making is that banks are made up of investors. It isn't just money on a ledger that belongs to a bank. It's money that belongs to persons. New money is created out of thin air when the bank loans money. What I mean is, nothing of actual value is given to a debtor, no "gold"...but numbers are entered into an account ledger and viola. When the money is paid back to the bank, the bank profits from the interest, but really, it is only numbers in a ledger. The only thing backing it, in terms of the individual, is whatever collateral. In terms of a nation's debt, what backs it is land and resources, and armed forces.

China just yesterday scrambled jets to intercept the US Navy, who have been lurking near the new reefs they are building in the South Pacific. Russian fighter jets have been harassing US surveillance aircraft. American hegemony in the Middle East oil trade has severely waned, and the demise of the petrodollar seems imminent.

I see a bad moon rising.


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 9:18 pm 
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tiboudre wrote:
A rope leash wrote:
To whom do we owe the money?

The foreign countries that buy U.S. bonds. The U.S. sells bonds (created out of thin air) to other countries in order to print more currency. Those bonds have interest rates. China is the largest holder of U.S. bonds (U.S. debt). The U.S. is most indebted to them. China is accumulating gold at a rapid rate. When the U.S. eventually defaults and cannot pay China, China's plan will be to overthrow the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency with a gold-backed yuan.


This is the most-often predicted outcome which will never happen. But it is good fodder for all the fatalists.

The dollar is the reserve currency and that is why US Bonds are so attractive.

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