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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:57 am 
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You claimed 10 million, when in fact it was two million. NOT EVEN CLOSE Disco Douche. Why are you going so far out of your way to back up a claim that you know you are wrong about? I take it that your just being an a-hole because you can.

You're an ASSHOLE
You're an ASSHOLE
That's right

You're an ASSHOLE
You're an ASSHOLE
yes yes...


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:52 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
the so called death panels are real, just read the ACA the IRS WILL determine if you are a candidate for certain procedures, now go read it is a big law.

Did you consider it a death panel before the ACA when insurance companies would pass judgement on which procedures the patients would get? If not, why not?

Is it a death panel when a physician talks to the patient and family members about advance directives?

Sarah would be proud of you, holding the death panel line after all this time.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:47 am 
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The difference is the GOVERNMENT is making the decision, and the irs of all entities, not an insurance company of my choosing, look my mom died with cancer in 77, her insurance ran out do to coming out of remission, that with the technology of 1977 and she died.But it was her insurance of choice, Again why do all you guys want the federal government running your lives, it is a huge problem, they are running up the debt and sooner or later none of us will have any thing, there is obama phones, and yes an obama car, and now he is working on a bailout of detroit!!, So less government more self reliance !!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:05 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
..... her insurance ran out do to coming out of remission.....

Isn't this exactly one of the tenets of Obamacare? That there will no longer be withdrawal of coverage? In your view, wasn't the insurance company, in this case, a "death panel" as you would put it?

BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
Again why do all you guys want the federal government running your lives....

I can't speak for anyone else. But I can't even come up with one example of how the feds are running my life. Can you? Are you referring to those bastions of socialism Medicare and Medicaid?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:48 pm 
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Just to let everyone know, I've placed Caputh (the original tweedle-dee) and SPACEBROTHER (tweedle-dumb) on my ignore list because I'm absolutely sick of their delusional and deceptive BS. So I won't be participating in any more meaninglessly lengthy flame wars...


-----------------------------------


Ronny's Noomies wrote:
I can't speak for anyone else. But I can't even come up with one example of how the feds are running my life. Can you? Are you referring to those bastions of socialism Medicare and Medicaid?


You're joking, right? Because for example (and there are MANY of them), there are now 47 million Americans on food stamps, as opposed to the 32 million on them 5 years ago...

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"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:44 pm 
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Is that proof that the govt is running my life?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Is that proof that the govt is running my life?


I think BV's statement was a figurative speech, since I don't think he was referring to everyone. However, if you're ever broke due to being unemployed and/or if you become so lazy that you don't want to work, etc., where you would be in need of things like food stamps, etc., you can bet your ass at the very least, that they're partially running your life...

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"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Before Bush got into office, there were 17,194,000 people on food stamps. Technically, Bush put more people on food stamps than Obama. Also, the vast majority of the states with the most people on food stamps are Red Republican states....

http://www.statisticbrain.com/food-stamp-statistics/


Obviously, some people like to talk shit and pull non-factual facts out of nowhere.. We'll see how long Disco Douche's ignore lasts. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:52 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Just to let everyone know, I've placed Caputh (the original tweedle-dee) and SPACEBROTHER (tweedle-dumb) on my ignore list because I'm absolutely sick of their delusional and deceptive BS. So I won't be participating in any more meaninglessly lengthy flame wars...





Oooh, goody. I'll alert the media.
I'm sure you'll manage meaninglessly lengthy flame wars with lots of other people, though.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:13 am 
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Caputh wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Just to let everyone know, I've placed Caputh (the original tweedle-dee) and SPACEBROTHER (tweedle-dumb) on my ignore list because I'm absolutely sick of their delusional and deceptive BS. So I won't be participating in any more meaninglessly lengthy flame wars...





Oooh, goody. I'll alert the media.
I'm sure you'll manage meaninglessly lengthy flame wars with lots of other people, though.

DB! What happened??? You had the biggest balls of us all. Speaking of Balls, Thats what I'm listening to right now. A CD by NMB that's darn good! I bought it at the merch table tonight at The GrandMother's show. Him and Don was the Bomb man, I'm thinkin' of seeing them at Yoshi's, Oakland Sunday night. 3+ hours of Frank. No two shows the same!... if someone else were going too, I'd be more likely to go. Right now still weighing it and diggin' NMB's "Balls" . Ha! Bigger than DB's! Fer sure, fer sure! :wink: :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:30 am 
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Good lord RN obama care is government run if you don't comply you are fined, ahh err taxed, is that not gov run? and NO under obama care you have a gov clown decided if you will get continued care.
you obviously don't understand the program and that in it's self is the problem the gov it's self is spending Billions to implement it, that would include teaching the very folks that are going to enforce it How to enforce it, this IS the definition of boondoggle or what I would call a Charlie Foxtrot.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:16 am 
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Bravo, there's a huge difference between "run by government" and "government runs my life." Would you agree? I would love to see a single payor system, but I settle for supporting Obamacare because it offers some pretty important advantages to the alternative. Such as coverage for preventative services, preexisting conditions, getting dropped when still in need of treatment. And more. I don't view getting MORE SERVICE for about the SAME MONEY as having my life run by the government.

Do YOU feel good about kowtowing to and getting thoroughly screwed by the insurance companies, which is what we've had to do all these years?

To me t's such a no brainer.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:27 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Is that proof that the govt is running my life?


I think BV's statement was a figurative speech, since I don't think he was referring to everyone. However, if you're ever broke due to being unemployed and/or if you become so lazy that you don't want to work, etc., where you would be in need of things like food stamps, etc., you can bet your ass at the very least, that they're partially running your life...

If I were broke and had no choice but to apply for unemployment, and if I needed food stamps, I'd be pretty relieved those things were available to me. Once again, how does the federal government run my life, as Bravo stated? Because I can utilize the safety net? Don't think so.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:49 am 
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It starts with education. The Federal government spends a lot to teach you what they want you to know, and to indoctrinate you.

The Federal government sold all of our radio frequencies to the large corporations that they represent, thereby filing your mind from birth with selected histories, propaganda, cultural fads, societal "norms", "hit" music and the like until your brain adopts the mindset that they are seeking...gullible, accepting, docile, dumb, and obligated to work.

The Federal government decides on who we go to war with, and how much to spend on war. You pay taxes, and the government decide how much you pay. You can't argue, it's the law...and this isn't tyranny of the majority, because very few actually want to pay taxes, and nearly no one wants to pay so much tax.

If you would like to open a business, the Federal government is right there to regulate and tax it. The bank will build you up, get you started, and when it fails, take it all back and saddle you with the debt. This is all legal under federal law, as is all the unethical shit done by financiers.

The Federal government may not control your life, but as we all know now, they are keeping track of it. The bottom line is that one cannot just go about their lives without interractng with this entity, this entity demands fealty and payment.

Well, all in all, I'd like my doctor to decide if more treatment will keep me alive, and I don't want "lack of funds" to get in the way. If I can get more years by undergoing a procedure, I should get it, and no one, not insurance workers or government bureaucrats especially, should be interfering.

But that's what happens, doesn't it, right here in this "Christian nation".


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:53 am 
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"What is your destiny?" the policewoman said
20% amnesia
The word that she wanted was "destination," I'm afraid
20% amnesia
This is your future boy, this is your fate
20% amnesia
And you're obsolete and they can't afford to educate you
20% amnesia

In his bed-time boot-boy jersey
Ringing up some fantasy tart
Give me strength or give me mercy
Life intimidates art

Give me strength or give me mercy
Don't let me lose heart
From rage to anaesthesia
20% amnesia

Were you passed out on the sofa?
20% amnesia
While justice was bartered by a drunken oaf?
20% amnesia
This is all your glorious country thinks of your life
20% amnesia
Strip-jack-naked with a Stanley knife
20% amnesia

So the German Queen went home again
But she couldn't find forgiveness
They made a fist of the hand of friendship
But it's only business

Give me strength or give me mercy
Don't let me lose heart
From rage to anaesthesia
20% amnesia

The wine you drink has never seen a grape
And now your sci-fi suit has lost its shape
But its a dangerous game that comedy plays
Sometimes it tells you the truth
Sometimes it delays it

Think back, think back if you still can
When the trumpet sounded and the world began
Somebody said "We must have won"
So they started burying the bogeyman

Mister Gorbachev came cap in hand
20% amnesia
From a bankrupt land to a bankrupt land
20% amnesia
Mister Gorbachev and some other fella
20% amnesia
Were taken to a show called "Cinderella"
20% amnesia
It wasn't an accident, it wasn't a mystery
20% amnesia
It was calculated and the rest is history
20% amnesia

You don't have to listen to me
That's the triumph of free will
When there are promises to break
And dreams to kill

Give me strength or give me mercy
Don't let me lose heart
From rage to anaesthesia
20% amnesia


- Elvis Costello


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O04LM-hI5Q


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:32 am 
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There are a few listener sponsored radio stations in my area that play no commercials. No corporate sponsorship whatsoever. One of them actually plays Zappa on occasion. Another one plays blues and jazz. I rarely listen to commercial radio anymore.

In fact, there isn't a broadcast frequency (AM, FM, analog, digital) in the world that isn't controlled and regulated by a government. It's not just an America thing.

There are also private schools and home schooling that aren't influenced by the gov't or corporations.


Also, without a gov't, there would be no infrastructure. No roads. No power grid. No gas. No internet to bitch about the gov't. There would be lawlessness because there would be no justice system.

If you hate our gov't, because Obama is running it, remember, it's still better than the alternative. As with the food stamp issue, there was a decline in the number of people on and requiring them after the first Bush left office in '92, and the increase started with the second Bush in office. The vast majority of the increase happened on Dubya's watch. I'll bet anything that there will be less people on food stamps when Obama leaves office than there are currently, and feel free to quote me on that in 2016.

Again, the numbers don't lie...also, notice that almost ALL of the states with the highest rate of food stamp recipients are run by Republicans while MOST of the states with the least participation in the program are run by Democrats...
http://www.statisticbrain.com/food-stamp-statistics/

Consider that myth thoroughly debunked.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:25 am 
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It does not take a government to build a road, or a sewer, or a bomb. Period.

The Federal government of the USA was supposed to be a limited government. It was designed mostly for the common defense of the states. It's far too corrupt and bloated now to be of any use except for the protection of itself. All these wars are not accidental...they are for the profit of those the government actually serves... the rich.

Sure, food stamps are great...since the corporations aren't paying us enough to feed ourselves, it's up to government to make sure we get something to eat. Who profits? Wal-Mart, ect...since the rich are not going to give us money to eat on, the Federal and State governments step in to take it out of their pockets and put it in the pockets of the poor, who then in turn give it back to the giant corporations. It isn't a benevolent government that is feeding the poor, it's a bunko scheme to get the money out of the hands of the rich, so that the poor don't clutter the streets begging.

Tiny little radio stations that play little Zappa once in a while? Yep, I've heard them...they sound like they are coming from a boat offshore. They are no antidote for the constant barrage of corporate mindshit that inundates our airwaves, and influences the children, and sells them on the idea of Barry Manilow, or Black Sabbath.

Do I hate the government? Yes. I can't avoid them, ever. They are a pain in the ass. If they wanted to do something for me, they would make it so the banks did not have to get rich off of my labor. They could make them help me buy a house with a *SPAM* product that isn't a decades-long screwing. This way, my entire life would not be a day to day struggle to pay somebody.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:58 am 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Bravo, there's a huge difference between "run by government" and "government runs my life." Would you agree? I would love to see a single payor system, but I settle for supporting Obamacare because it offers some pretty important advantages to the alternative. Such as coverage for preventative services, preexisting conditions, getting dropped when still in need of treatment. And more. I don't view getting MORE SERVICE for about the SAME MONEY as having my life run by the government.

Do YOU feel good about kowtowing to and getting thoroughly screwed by the insurance companies, which is what we've had to do all these years?

To me t's such a no brainer.

government runs your life more than you think, do you go to the grocery store? usda the Biggest , dept. and lobby of all, you buy gas? now what exactly preventative procedure does the gov pay for?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:24 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
the numbers don't lie

Horseshit. Who does the counting? Numbers don't count themselves.

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
without a gov't, there would be no infrastructure. No roads. No power grid. No gas. No internet to bitch about the gov't.

Horseshit.
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
There would be lawlessness because there would be no justice system.

Good!
The justice system only works for the ones who can afford it. Where have you been? I'd rather have lawlessness. The best thing about lawlessness is it scares people like you who try to hide behind words.

As long as you're a cheerleader for a political party you are full of shit. Fuck the democrats. Fuck the republicans. You pretend that the whole country would be comfortable, safe and happy if we only voted for dems. You're blind.

A rope leash wrote:
they are no antidote for the constant barrage of corporate mindshit that inundates our airwaves, and influences the children, and sells them on the idea of Barry Manilow, or Black Sabbath.

The radio doesn't play Barry Manilow. What is this, 1978? And Black Sabbath is good for children.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:33 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
the numbers don't lie

Horseshit. Who does the counting? Numbers don't count themselves.

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
without a gov't, there would be no infrastructure. No roads. No power grid. No gas. No internet to bitch about the gov't.

Horseshit.
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
There would be lawlessness because there would be no justice system.

Good!
The justice system only works for the ones who can afford it. Where have you been? I'd rather have lawlessness. The best thing about lawlessness is it scares people like you who try to hide behind words.

As long as you're a cheerleader for a political party you are full of shit. Fuck the democrats. Fuck the republicans. You pretend that the whole country would be comfortable, safe and happy if we only voted for dems. You're blind.

A rope leash wrote:
they are no antidote for the constant barrage of corporate mindshit that inundates our airwaves, and influences the children, and sells them on the idea of Barry Manilow, or Black Sabbath.

The radio doesn't play Barry Manilow. What is this, 1978? And Black Sabbath is good for children.


Wow, Downer -are you the first anarchist who listens to the radio????

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:44 am 
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Caputh, we are spinning on a rock out in space. We are all anarchists. The word is meaningless.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:50 am 
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Wanna buy some Mandies, Bob?

The radio does play Barry, and Black Sabbath, and they have been doing it for decades, over and over and over as if there was nothing else to play. It's a brainwashing technique.

I like Barry Manilow and Black Sabbath. I don't really want to, but there are these little bundles of nerves in my brain that hold the music, so the more I hear it, the more I "like" it...which is the same for just about any music. They could play some other shit, so I could "like" it, too...but some of that other shit don't jive with the program of a dumbed-down populace ready for war.

Anarchy is nothing but local control, which is good or bad, depending on the person and the fiefdom. Federalism seeks to control as much as it can, and indeed, they have whupped the States, so now they meddle overseas.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:04 pm 
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I know that when Zappa was a guest DJ on the Radio One broadcast he played some Sabbath. He also played Grease by Frankie Valley.


Interview with FZ: Sounds (9th September 1978)

HF: Still playing Black Sabbath, eh?
FZ: (Laughs) I like it. It's fantastic. 'Iron Man'. Are you kidding me? 'Iron Man'! That's a work of art. I'm really into that. I used to like 'Supernaught' but I think 'Iron Man' is the one now.
HF: Do you ever go and see bands live?
FZ: I saw them. I was on stage with them at Madison Square Gardens on their last tour. I was sitting on the side of the stage. I'd never seen them before. They had me sitting on a box over by the side (he bursts into uncontrolled laughter).
I was going to jam with them and they were supposed to call me up and tell me what time their soundcheck was, but I guess they didn't have one. So, I went down there to the show and they said "What are you going to play?" and they'd set up a mini wall of Marshalls for me. And I said "Shit, I'm not going to go out there without knowing what it's going to sound like". I said I'd just watch the show.
What happened was that Tony Iommi had some trouble with his guitar and decided to change his strings at the last minute. The audience had already been sitting there waiting for an hour or so since Ted Nugent, and they wanted me to go out there and make an announcement and calm them down. So I did. And I introduced them and then sat by the side of the stage over by Ozzy's orange juice (Laughs again).
HF: But you didn't play?
FZ: No, I just sat there and marveled at it (More laughter). I think it's great. Especially in a place like Madison Square Gardens with 20,000 people grunting and wheezing and shoving each other.



He should have played some Barry Manilow!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:34 pm 
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A rope leash wrote:
It starts with education. The Federal government spends a lot to teach you what they want you to know, and to indoctrinate you....

The Federal government decides on who we go to war with, and how much to spend on war. You pay taxes, and the government decide how much you pay. You can't argue, it's the law...and this isn't tyranny of the majority, because very few actually want to pay taxes, and nearly no one wants to pay so much tax.....

If you would like to open a business, the Federal government is right there to regulate and tax it......

The Federal government may not control your life, but as we all know now, they are keeping track of it.....


For me, Rope's notions - stated in this post - are somewhat compelling.

However, I'm trying to make a distinction here between Bravo's automatic republican bullet points about the government "running my life" and what the government actually does to me. This is Bravo's statement which I'm objecting to: ....why do all you guys want the federal government running your live.... So far, the notion seems to be that if I pay taxes the government has taken over my life. If the government runs Medicare/Medicaid, the government is making my own health care decisions for me. If I buy perishable items from the store, the fact that the government regulates their worthiness for sale means I'm somehow being controlled.

I'm sympathetic to Rope's view of the feds role in indoctrination of the population and tracking my behavior, even though he feels the need to say it ad nauseum. But basic provision of health care, safety and legal regulation, paying reasonable taxes, etc. seems a good thing to me. NONE OF THOSE KINDS OF GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION MEAN MY LIFE HAS BEEN DISTILLED DOWN TO ME BEING BOTTLE FED AND CONTROLLED.

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Everytime we picked a booger we'd flip it on this one winduh. Every night we'd contribute, 2, 3, 4 boogers. We had to use a putty knife, man, to get them damn things off the winduh. There was some goober ones that weren't even hard...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:42 pm 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
NONE OF THOSE KINDS OF GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION MEAN MY LIFE HAS BEEN DISTILLED DOWN TO ME BEING BOTTLE FED AND CONTROLLED.

You need to listen to more Barry Manilow.


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