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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:36 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
"Gentle needling"? Give me a fucking break. You've been hounding me throughout this entire thread.


ha ha. And we all KNOW why that is. :roll:

Afraid I'm gonna have to pass on commenting upon pop group U2. It's just too unbelievably horrible for me to even sample 30 second clips.

I'm afraid I DO treat music subjectively. As well I should. I'd rather spend my money on stuff I actually like to listen to as opposed to what may be important....otherwise I'd have a shitload of Mozart records, etcetera that I wd never listen to.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:14 am 
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brainpang wrote:
Afraid I'm gonna have to pass on commenting upon pop group U2. It's just too unbelievably horrible for me to even sample 30 second clips.



It's mildly enjoyable to watch them fuck up in a series of 10 second clips, tho'...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZhCDYw1Z80

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:04 pm 
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brainpang wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
"Gentle needling"? Give me a fucking break. You've been hounding me throughout this entire thread.


ha ha. And we all KNOW why that is. :roll:


I'm glad it's starting to sink in.

brainpang wrote:
Afraid I'm gonna have to pass on commenting upon pop group U2. It's just too unbelievably horrible for me to even sample 30 second clips.


Fair enough. But as I've already stated, U2 hasn't really been a "pop" group until recently.

brainpang wrote:
I'm afraid I DO treat music subjectively. As well I should. I'd rather spend my money on stuff I actually like to listen to as opposed to what may be important....otherwise I'd have a shitload of Mozart records, etcetera that I wd never listen to.


Where did I state that you didn't treat music subjectively? We all do. The word "subjective" was what I stated when referring to the word "disposable." Pay attention.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:26 am 
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Drop the eye rolling and the school master schtick and ya might be on your way to being a human bean.

Loads of people listen to music objectively: the scholarly, professionals (and a legion of hobbyist/wannabes), the clueless [insert FZs “lifestyle enhancement” commentary here].

Ya just don’t make sense to me. It’s okay to listen subjectively, but wrong to find something disposable? Your use of a press officers favorite buzz words ( “innovative” & “experimental” ) pretty much tells the story. Is it because YOU think (and many others, for all I know) it is so, than I am just an idiot for not recognizing it? Well, as I said, I can’t get near that U2 without breaking into hives, but I do remember “Achtung Baby” when it was newish, and I didn’t find it important or cutting edge at all. Seemed to be derivative of others who came before with the added “X Factor” of a huge budget.

And the definition of POP? Can be a lot of things.

Edits: typos and a sentence deletion so as not to open up a DEBATE.


Last edited by brainpang on Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:37 am 
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Let's hear it from The Maestro himself from 1993:

[Zappa] first heard [The Chieftains] 'about five or six years ago' and is, he claims, 'quite astounded' to find that they would be regarded as 'relatively unfashionable' by many rock critics and fans in Ireland, a country in which by contrast U2 have been practically deified.

'U2 may be the most popular, and successful musical export coming from Ireland today, but there's no comparison between the musical quality of what they do and what the Chieftains do', says Zappa. 'We play together here nearly every time they're in town and I love the sounds these guys make. I love the melodies, the chord changes and especially they way their music is performed. Each member of the group is expert on his instrument, not just in terms of technique, but in terms of the concept they have of what the final ensemble product is supposed to sound like. That is something you are only going to get with a group that has been together 30 years.'

Zappa does not respond too favourably to claims that U2 now are 'postmodern rockers'.

'"Postmodern rockers", what does that mean? Do they themselves know?' he says, smiling wryly. 'And which would you rather have? Mediocre innovation or a direct linear descent from Celtic culture, which is what I hear in the music of the Chieftains? And even if you do stumble across excellent innovation what are you going to do with it, how are you going to appreciate it, if you don't first appreciate your own culture?'

http://www.afka.net/articles/1993-06_RCD.htm

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:03 am 
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I love the Chieftains (thanks to Zappa).

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
Let's hear it from The Maestro himself from 1993:

[Zappa] first heard [The Chieftains] 'about five or six years ago' and is, he claims, 'quite astounded' to find that they would be regarded as 'relatively unfashionable' by many rock critics and fans in Ireland, a country in which by contrast U2 have been practically deified.

'U2 may be the most popular, and successful musical export coming from Ireland today, but there's no comparison between the musical quality of what they do and what the Chieftains do', says Zappa. 'We play together here nearly every time they're in town and I love the sounds these guys make. I love the melodies, the chord changes and especially they way their music is performed. Each member of the group is expert on his instrument, not just in terms of technique, but in terms of the concept they have of what the final ensemble product is supposed to sound like. That is something you are only going to get with a group that has been together 30 years.'

Zappa does not respond too favourably to claims that U2 now are 'postmodern rockers'.

'"Postmodern rockers", what does that mean? Do they themselves know?' he says, smiling wryly. 'And which would you rather have? Mediocre innovation or a direct linear descent from Celtic culture, which is what I hear in the music of the Chieftains? And even if you do stumble across excellent innovation what are you going to do with it, how are you going to appreciate it, if you don't first appreciate your own culture?'

http://www.afka.net/articles/1993-06_RCD.htm


How incredibly silly. U2 and the Cheiftains are from the same country, and that's about it. "Hey, let's compare Wild Marmalade and AC/DC!"

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:00 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
How incredibly silly. U2 and the Cheiftains are from the same country, and that's about it. "Hey, let's compare Wild Marmalade and AC/DC!"


I guess it can be read that way but one needs to know the full story to get what FZ is talking about...without looking silly, eh my good Calvinist?
Not that I know the full story, but just look at all the people that have collaborated with the Chieftain's. And then look at all the people Bongo has collaborated with. Then take note there is no C/B nor u and uh two collaboration. Wonder why? Because the Dubliner’s are cooler? The ones to latch onto? Is that what U2 needs to do to maintain street cred? Bah! Maybe PM and Bongo are just two little men with massive egos that can't get along.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:16 pm 
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brainpang wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
How incredibly silly. U2 and the Cheiftains are from the same country, and that's about it. "Hey, let's compare Wild Marmalade and AC/DC!"


I guess it can be read that way but one needs to know the full story to get what FZ is talking about...without looking silly, eh my good Calvinist?
Not that I know the full story, but just look at all the people that have collaborated with the Chieftain's. And then look at all the people Bongo has collaborated with. Then take note there is no C/B nor u and uh two collaboration. Wonder why? Because the Dubliner’s are cooler? The ones to latch onto? Is that what U2 needs to do to maintain street cred? Bah! Maybe PM and Bongo are just two little men with massive egos that can't get along.


That still has nothing to do with two different bands with two different styles of music. And he is comparing the two at the start, isn't he?

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 Post subject: Re: How to insult U2
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:40 pm 
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How to insult U2

U2 has had 25 years since their pop album Joshua Tree sold 10 million copies to do whatever they want. 25 years to develop and improve and do something incredible and yet they still suck. 25 years of living in luxury with nothing to do but be musicians all day, everyday, and what have they come up with? Zooropa? All that time to work at their craft and all that money and they decide to stay together as U2, barely evolve and take no real chances. When you hear all the talented people working their asses off in full time jobs outside of music who can still blow everyone in U2 away with their musical abilities, it really exposes the scam of the big time music/marketing/celebrity biz.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:40 pm 
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brainpang wrote:
Drop the eye rolling and the school master schtick and ya might be on your way to being a human bean.


Drop the assertion that I'm indulging in a school master shtick and you might be on your way to understanding me.

brainpang wrote:
Loads of people listen to music objectively: the scholarly, professionals (and a legion of hobbyist/wannabes), the clueless [insert FZs “lifestyle enhancement” commentary here].


Wtf did I say they didn't?

brainpang wrote:
Ya just don’t make sense to me. It’s okay to listen subjectively, but wrong to find something disposable?


Wtf did I say that?

You're very good at misinterpreting my statements.

brainpang wrote:
Your use of a press officers favorite buzz words ( “innovative” & “experimental” ) pretty much tells the story. Is it because YOU think (and many others, for all I know) it is so, than I am just an idiot for not recognizing it? Well, as I said, I can’t get near that U2 without breaking into hives, but I do remember “Achtung Baby” when it was newish, and I didn’t find it important or cutting edge at all. Seemed to be derivative of others who came before with the added “X Factor” of a huge budget.


NOTHING sounded like '90s U2. That would more than likely mean they were innovative. Or at the very least, experimental. And certainly NOT "pop", at least during this particular era.

brainpang wrote:
And the definition of POP? Can be a lot of things.


That's debatable.

Anyway, you obviously don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. So you should probably just stop now.

brainpang wrote:
Edits: typos and a sentence deletion so as not to open up a DEBATE.


Even though you're already debating... :roll:

downer mydnyte wrote:
How to insult U2

U2 has had 25 years since their pop album Joshua Tree sold 10 million copies to do whatever they want. 25 years to develop and improve and do something incredible and yet they still suck. 25 years of living in luxury with nothing to do but be musicians all day, everyday, and what have they come up with? Zooropa? All that time to work at their craft and all that money and they decide to stay together as U2, barely evolve and take no real chances. When you hear all the talented people working their asses off in full time jobs outside of music who can still blow everyone in U2 away with their musical abilities it really exposes the scam of the big time music/marketing/celebrity biz.


The Joshua Tree isn't really a pop album since the style of the album has U2 primarily exploring American & Irish roots music (blues, R&B, folk, rock, etc.). Nor did it sell 10 million copies - it has sold 25-30 million copies.

If you still think U2 hasn't evolved musically, at least up until the late '90s, then you haven't heard their music from the '80s or '90s.

However, whether or not you think U2 suck is entirely subjective...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:51 pm 
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Wow! I never knew that one way of insulting people was to say that U2 are crap.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:17 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
Wow! I never knew that one way of insulting people was to say that U2 are crap.

You too can be crap! (at Red Rocks,CO.) That's right folks, you too (U2) can put out records of concerts that suck the life outta they're native blood/countries troubles. Now that they've patched things up a bit in Ireland. I don't hear any Irish bands making a bundle off the ol' poor Irish lottery of life the way U2 did anymore. Where's Bono & U2 now? Nowhere'sville man. Because there's no " big cause" which = no big arena's. No hype to fill 'em. Simple.
U2 needs a war to get inspired. Or an oppressor of some sort. imho. :|

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
brainpang wrote:
Drop the eye rolling and the school master schtick and ya might be on your way to being a human bean.


Drop the assertion that I'm indulging in a school master shtick and you might be on your way to understanding me.



Actually, I must take issue with brainpang here and say I totally agree with Disco Boy. As a teacher myself, I believe I can safely say that in no way, shape or form does Disco Boy's behaviour bear the remotest comparison with that of a schoolmaster.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:58 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
brainpang wrote:
Drop the eye rolling and the school master schtick and ya might be on your way to being a human bean.


Drop the assertion that I'm indulging in a school master shtick and you might be on your way to understanding me.



Actually, I must take issue with brainpang here and say I totally agree with Disco Boy. As a teacher myself, I believe I can safely say that in no way, shape or form does Disco Boy's behaviour bear the remotest comparison with that of a schoolmaster.

If he was a teacher when I was growing up, he'd get with our program or die tryin'. We caught every nuance and instead of becoming little pricks exploiting them, we became comrades in arms or a common cause so to speak with the right teachers. (there's always a few pensioners just putting in time :roll: ) We had an unpopular war at the time, certain teachers were still cool and "got it" without forcing anything on us.
I think they learned just as much from us. That's what made them special I guess. 8)
Great teachers! Teachers Rule!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:53 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
brainpang wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
How incredibly silly. U2 and the Cheiftains are from the same country, and that's about it. "Hey, let's compare Wild Marmalade and AC/DC!"


I guess it can be read that way but one needs to know the full story to get what FZ is talking about...without looking silly, eh my good Calvinist?
Not that I know the full story, but just look at all the people that have collaborated with the Chieftain's. And then look at all the people Bongo has collaborated with. Then take note there is no C/B nor u and uh two collaboration. Wonder why? Because the Dubliner’s are cooler? The ones to latch onto? Is that what U2 needs to do to maintain street cred? Bah! Maybe PM and Bongo are just two little men with massive egos that can't get along.


That still has nothing to do with two different bands with two different styles of music. And he is comparing the two at the start, isn't he?


hell-o, calvin -- just making sense of something that seemingly doesn't make sense. I could go on, but if I write about u2 my day will be ruined.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:17 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Drop the assertion that I'm indulging in a school master shtick and you might be on your way to understanding me.


Only my perception matters. I have no idea what your vision of self is.

Okay, teach', since I "don't have a fucking clue" then please explain what you mean by "disposable" being too subjective?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:50 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Caputh wrote:
Wow! I never knew that one way of insulting people was to say that U2 are crap.

You too can be crap! (at Red Rocks,CO.) That's right folks, you too (U2) can put out records of concerts that suck the life outta they're native blood/countries troubles. Now that they've patched things up a bit in Ireland. I don't hear any Irish bands making a bundle off the ol' poor Irish lottery of life the way U2 did anymore. Where's Bono & U2 now? Nowhere'sville man. Because there's no " big cause" which = no big arena's. No hype to fill 'em. Simple.
U2 needs a war to get inspired. Or an oppressor of some sort. imho. :|


After 110 shows, U2's 2009-2011 360 tour grossed over $736.4 million, with attendance topping 7.2 million. It's the highest grossing and attended tour in history.

brainpang wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Drop the assertion that I'm indulging in a school master shtick and you might be on your way to understanding me.


Only my perception matters. I have no idea what your vision of self is.


Yet you accuse me of only caring about my own posts. :roll:

brainpang wrote:
Okay, teach', since I "don't have a fucking clue" then please explain what you mean by "disposable" being too subjective?


Because the particular definition of "disposable" you were utilizing, is just as subjective as the word "subjective" is when discussing one's own personal tastes. This is especially true of you, since you think U2 is strictly a pop band. This confirms, at least to me, that you don't know U2's music from a hole in a wall...

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 Post subject: Re: How to insult U2
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:31 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
The Joshua Tree isn't really a pop album

Sorry. That was a typo. I meant to say "poop" album.

Anyway, genres are most certainly subjective. With Or Without You qualifies as "pop" to most of us. I mean "poop".


Disco Boy wrote:
U2 primarily exploring American & Irish roots music (blues, R&B, folk, rock, etc.)

hahaha. Hilarious!
Exploring but not comprehending. They couldn't play decent blues, rock or R&B if their lives depended on it. Lucky for them their lives only depended on marketing a pose. If Eno had not shown The Edge how to set the knobs on his pedals, dialed in his tone for him and suggested notes - I doubt the Joshua Tree album would have got past the tediously derivative "folk music" stage.

Disco Boy wrote:
whether or not you think U2 suck is entirely subjective

Actually, it's not subjective at all. The proof/evidence is all right there in the recordings. It can't be denied! Take away the producer and they clearly suck shit.

Disco Boy wrote:
If you still think U2 hasn't evolved musically, at least up until the late '90s, then you haven't heard their music from the '80s or '90s.

Hiring hot shit producers to make you sound fresh and experimental does not have anything to do with individual band members evolving.
The members of U2 have barely evolved musically. They let guys like Eno and Lanois do all the work.

Disco Boy wrote:
After 110 shows, U2's 2009-2011 360 tour grossed over $736.4 million, with attendance topping 7.2 million. It's the highest grossing and attended tour in history.

In light of this info would you accept it if I refer to U2 as a middle of the road, mainstream band instead of a pop band?
They are like the McDonalds of music. I'm sure McDonalds probably sold more hamburgers than any other "restaurant" from 2009-2011.


Released in 1997. But don't call it pop!!
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:02 pm 
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Looks like U2 still makes tons of money. :shock: So we know it isn't lack of funds that's holding them back. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:21 pm 
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I can't think of anything past well, I don't know what year because I don't follow them. Sunday Bloody Sunday, One and Bad are the only songs I really like by them. I Will Follow isn't bad either. The rest? Blech, imo.

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 Post subject: Re: How to insult U2
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:33 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
The Joshua Tree isn't really a pop album

Sorry. That was a typo. I meant to say "poop" album.


Nope. You said "pop."

downer mydnyte wrote:
Anyway, genres are most certainly subjective. With Or Without You qualifies as "pop" to most of us. I mean "poop".


That's one song.

downer mydnyte wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
U2 primarily exploring American & Irish roots music (blues, R&B, folk, rock, etc.)

hahaha. Hilarious!
Exploring but not comprehending. They couldn't play decent blues, rock or R&B if their lives depended on it. Lucky for them their lives only depended on marketing a pose.


That's your opinion.

downer mydnyte wrote:
If Eno had not shown The Edge how to set the knobs on his pedals, dialed in his tone for him and suggested notes - I doubt the Joshua Tree album would have got past the tediously derivative "folk music" stage.


Where are the articles/info confirming Eno did this?

downer mydnyte wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
whether or not you think U2 suck is entirely subjective

Actually, it's not subjective at all. The proof/evidence is all right there in the recordings. It can't be denied! Take away the producer and they clearly suck shit.


ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

Whether or not you think U2 suck is entirely subjective.

downer mydnyte wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
If you still think U2 hasn't evolved musically, at least up until the late '90s, then you haven't heard their music from the '80s or '90s.

Hiring hot shit producers to make you sound fresh and experimental does not have anything to do with individual band members evolving.

The members of U2 have barely evolved musically. They let guys like Eno and Lanois do all the work.


I was talking about their MUSIC evolving, which it HAS. As far as each individual member evolving, that's more debatable. But at least you now admit that their music was fresh and experimental during this period. I'm actually impressed and shocked.

Also, how the fuck do you know that Eno/Lanois (who have been working with U2 since '84) were strictly the only ones making them sound that way or doing all the work?

downer mydnyte wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
After 110 shows, U2's 2009-2011 360 tour grossed over $736.4 million, with attendance topping 7.2 million. It's the highest grossing and attended tour in history.

In light of this info would you accept it if I refer to U2 as a middle of the road, mainstream band instead of a pop band?
They are like the McDonalds of music. I'm sure McDonalds probably sold more hamburgers than any other "restaurant" from 2009-2011.


Now? Maybe. In the '80s & '90s? Definitely not.

downer mydnyte wrote:
Released in 1997. But don't call it pop!!
Image


What you don't seem to understand is this album and the following PopMart tour were exercises in IRONY. Hence the title of the album and tour, despite the fact that Pop is the least U2-like sounding album in their catalogue. Stylistically, it includes elements of techno, electronica, ambient, funk, trip rock, tape loops, samples, etc., as well as The Edge completely reinventing his guitar sounds. I think you'd realize this if you had heard this album. But of course, you haven't...

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:33 pm 
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If one were to gauge the greatness of a band/musician based on record sales and concert attendance, then Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake are awesome. :P

Really...U2 sucks ass. Always has, and always will. Mediocrity at it's worst. :P So a bunch of tone deaf idiots paid way to much for concert tickets...big fricken whoop. :roll:

The only thing that boasting about this band proves is that the person doing the boasting is a total cheese ball.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Whoa there Space bro'. I never said I didn't like them. For me it's more of a what have they done new and interesting and not what's expected of them after Sunday Bloody Sunday. The fit for MTV performance of the year, which was also the decade of MTV video's, where all really big groups played for the camera and not for the music.
Check out the old '60's dudes that are still popular like Dylan & Young. They made it through the MTV era and on to the digital age. Just like Frank was on to. U2 has all the right tools, but at least to me, not the creative juices to go where no musician-man has gone before, or are they on hold like The Stones. Same stuff. If ya like it it's fine, if you don't it's just your taste, not theirs.
I'm tryin' to be fair. I can take or leave them, but I'd be sad if I never heard them, ever! :|

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