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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:00 pm 
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Just goes to show you shouldn't fight ad hominems with ad hominems. Seriously Caputh, I don't get why you bother. Some people are so badly attached to their misinformed opinions...
There's a self-illustrating proverb on it in Dutch, Barbertje moet hangen. It refers to a play that is the motto of one of the most famous Dutch books, Max Havelaar by Multatuli. In the play, Lothario is on trial for the murder of Barbertje. Lothario defends himself by saying he took good care of Barbertje. The judge condemns him to the gallows, even when Barbertje herself comes in to say Lothario didn't murder her, but took good care of her. The judge still sends him to be hung: not for murder, but for vanity. The proverb "Barbertje moet hangen" means that, once an opinion has been formed, it'd take heaven and earth to change it and even that might not be enough. And it's self-illustrating since it's not Barbertje who must hang, but Lothario.

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:47 pm 
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A lovely story and very apposite.
I'm sorry BBP. I know it doesn't amuse you.
However, I can never quite escape what amuses me. But if it's over here, in the debate thread - what harm can it do?
Except, possibly to Disco Boy. On the other hand, I tend to find that the most of the harm done to Disco Boy is self-inflicted.

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Also applies to informed opinions, and this saying: Those convinced against their will, are of the same opinion still.

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:11 pm 
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I am finding the Caputh drama very interesting. DB has a set list of functions that activate predictably against nearly everyone, but Caputh has forced a modification of DB's program. I am very curious to learn the outcome. DB can only refuse participation for so long. Unfortunately, by posting this, I make the experience meta so the subject is aware of the circumstances, therefore straying from optimum results. Fortunately, DB's unique symptoms make him largely immune to such awarenesses, the same way that some people just never get how irony or sarcasm works.
DB's "points" or whatever he is claiming right now can be paraphrased as such:
Caputh doesn't play fair, so that he cannot be right.
He's wrong about that, but since he has no intention of proving that, it doesn't matter to him. He just has to use it as a trump card and weasel out of an argument. If he continues to maintain that redundantly, DB won't win anything or lose anything. It is a no-win situation and one that Caputh looks better for because Caputh is the only one with an argument for the topic at hand. DB will find another hand to worry about though. Anything that he can be right about. He needs to be right and his cards are currently a draw at best. That isn't good enough for DB. I don't know when or how, but the dam will burst. Onward to Psychohistory! (from the sidelines! hahaha)

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:27 pm 
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And so the broken circle go
Over and over again.

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:24 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
And so the broken circle go
Over and over again.

Good topic for debate! :)
Do you mean scratched or damaged? Broken circles arent really circles is that the way to go? Maybe its DB's pic of a shattered vinyl record, but that doesn't speak to redundancy. The only type that does is a skipped record, but that doesn't have the same deadpan as broken.
I know, shut up RK, yer pissing me off with this crap. Let the rainbow unicorn lead us to serenity now! :),

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:56 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
And so the broken circle go
Over and over again.

Good topic for debate! :)
Do you mean scratched or damaged? Broken circles arent really circles is that the way to go? Maybe its DB's pic of a shattered vinyl record, but that doesn't speak to redundancy. The only type that does is a skipped record, but that doesn't have the same deadpan as broken.
I know, shut up RK, yer pissing me off with this crap. Let the rainbow unicorn lead us to serenity now! :),


I posited my opinion. Nah, never shut up RK, you seem to come at things from a different angle, and I think it's good.

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:41 pm 
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DC Boogie wrote:
It's extremely annoying that Disco Boy continues spewing forth his worthless assertions of superiority while refusing to engage in serious discussion and maintaining that he hasn't even been thrown a bone of contention to chew on, while Caputh in particular offers so many angles for a real debate --

http://www.zappa.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25423#p605713


That's because I haven't been thrown ONE bone of contention to chew on, genius. I've also NEVER refused to engage in serious discussion. 99% of the crap you guys spew are ad hominems, just like the one you've thrown in part of your sentence above.

tiboudre wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Maybe someday you idiots will FINALLY grow a pair and construct a convincing argument to the contrary? Until then, you'll still be resorting to the exact opposite and perpetually throwing ad hominems instead. Until then, get back on the sidelines, kids...
...I'll be waiting...

Here's one: Continually repeating the same statements ad nauseum, calling people 'idiots', 'assholes', 'shitheads', etc., using caps, silly fonts and pictorials are not good ways of convicing people that you've won an argument.

Here's another one: Continually extending the topical boundaries of your side of a debate does equal to winning a debate.


I'm not trying to convince anyone here that I've won the argument. I have. There doesn't need to be any convincing. Nor have I extended the topical boundaries of the debate. Also, I only insult people who DESERVE IT.

BBP wrote:
Just goes to show you shouldn't fight ad hominems with ad hominems. Seriously Caputh, I don't get why you bother. Some people are so badly attached to their misinformed opinions...


POT. KETTLE. BLACK.

ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

Almost ALL UK/European countries are run by lefties or liberals. The ONLY strictly conservative-run party in ANY country within the aforementioned continent or region, is in Hungary. FACT. And it's NO surprise why that particular continent/region is generally worse off than we are on this side of the Atlantic...


But if you love birds have a convincing argument to the contrary, I'll be waiting (and maybe one day you'll learn the meaning of ad hominem?)...

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Lefties...Righties...Liberals...Conservatives...Ad Hominems...Facts...Winners...Losers...Geniuses...Fools...Males...Females...Friends...Enemies...Thesis...Antithesis.

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:55 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:

ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

Almost ALL UK/European countries are run by lefties or liberals. The ONLY strictly conservative-run party in ANY country within the aforementioned continent or region, is in Hungary. FACT. And it's NO surprise why that particular continent/region is generally worse off than we are on this side of the Atlantic...


Ah - a reply that could be considered a contribution to a debate.
However, it appears to be merely a restatement of your original premise and thus I still don't feel that you are really grasping the nettle of the criticisms of the arguments I was making.

Look, I'll give you some examples of what I mean and some counterarguments. I'm sure you could find others...

Caputh's claims a), b), c) and d)
a) The vast majority of EU countries are not run by socialists, but at least an equal number by Conservatives.

It is not enough IMO to complain that somebody is being manipulative by using the term "Conservative" instead of Centre-Left to describe these parties and then produce a link to a Wikipedia site entitled "List of Conservative Parties" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... by_country. I may be a manipulative shithead but is Wikipedia a manipulative shithead, too? Also, there are a number of parties on that list that tend to the extreme right, e.g. UKIP in Great Britain.
What you basically need to do here is to provide evidence that these individual Conservative/Centre-Right parties, at the very least, have overwhelmingly socialist/social liberal policies, or that their leaders make statements overtly favourable to socialism. Taking Germany as an example, you could point out that the Conservative/Centre Right CDU/CSU is currently engaged in coalition discussions with the Centre-Left (I have great problems in describing them as "socialist", but never mind) SPD. Therefore they must have some common ground with the Centre-Left. However, as Germany's economy appears to be a global success story for the majority of observers at the moment, this would rather negate the other arguments you are attempting to make.

b) Where the centre-right lies depends very much on the individual political landscape of the country concerned e.g. in Germany there are five parties to the left of the Conservative/Centre Right CDU/CSU.

Calling this a "red herring" is avoiding the heart of the matter, IMO. One could actually argue that there are also at least 5 parties to the right of the CDU/CSU, thus placing them firmly in the centre and closer to the SPD than to the Nazis. The only problem with this argument is that one would appear to be contending that Conservatives = Extreme Right Wing, something you come very close to doing when you describe the Hungarian government as the only real Conservatives in Europe. But if you take the term "Conservative" to denote homophobic, authoritarian xenophobes, then I suppose this is an argument.

c) The term "liberal" in Europe almost exclusively denotes parties that follow economic policies that are what Americans call fiscal Conservatism and/or laissez-faire liberalism.

This is a difficult one, as a large number of the European parties that explicitly call themselves "liberal" follow economic policies that are based on laissez-faire liberalism, an economic theory generally not found in socialism. This places these parties to the right of the political spectrum. A number of them are also Nationalists and some are positively xenophobic (e.g. FPÖ in Austria).You could point out that the UK Liberal Democrats who are, at this very moment, in a coalition government with the Conservatives fulfill the American definition of (social) liberal at least in their political philosophy. One would then, however, have to contend with the arguments:
i) They are an isolated case in Europe
ii) That the role they play in the coalition government is seen as so ineffective and the disappointment with their performance in carrying out (social) liberal policies is so great, that it would surprise me very much if they gained more than a handful of seats in the next election.
All the same, the last point is personal speculation on my part and could provide you with a valid point.

d) The term "centre" comes from the German "Zentrum", denoting a catholic, conservative, monarchist party.
This again is difficult to get 'round. A number of the leading figures of this party e.g. von Papen were close associates with the arch-Conservative Hindenburg. In fact Hindenburg only allowed Hitler to become chancellor, if his pal, Papen was made vice chancellor. It is, however, possible to argue that the term "centre" has undergone a semantic transformation in the post-war period, when general acceptance of Keynesian principles extended to all parties. One would then have to deal with the question whether the Thatcherite, neoliberal reforms have not ratcheted the economic debate in Europe back to the right.

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:56 am 
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This is just a list of who's been voted in as a government and what side of middle they are perceived to be (USA republicans and democrats are both seen as right wing in the UK).
None of this debate seems to take into account who really runs these countries. Europe is run by the EU. England is run by the banks. Scotland is run by England. USA is run by the CIA. Italy is run by the mafia. South America is run by drugs cartels. The middle east is run by muslems. China is run by the Chinese. The world is run by replicon lizards etc etc.
And USA economy is fucked up more than most countries in the EU.

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:40 am 
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'cos round things are... boring...

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:25 am 
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deuce wrote:
This is just a list of who's been voted in as a government and what side of middle they are perceived to be (USA republicans and democrats are both seen as right wing in the UK).
None of this debate seems to take into account who really runs these countries. Europe is run by the EU. England is run by the banks. Scotland is run by England. USA is run by the CIA. Italy is run by the mafia. South America is run by drugs cartels. The middle east is run by muslems. China is run by the Chinese. The world is run by replicon lizards etc etc.
And USA economy is fucked up more than most countries in the EU.


You are possibly correct about your first statement IMO; but I suppose that's in the nature of a "debate" that began with a very short list of 4 countries, three of whom are run by governments that I described as Conservative and Disco Boy described as Centre Right and thus socialist. The reason why this debate has not progressed is because Disco Boy repeats the same claims quite often, seemingly in the hope that this will add weight to his argument and generally dislikes engaging in examples that might undermine his position.
The second part of your statement is also possibly correct IMO, although I would tend to believe that banks head the list in all the countries/continents you mention - definitely the role of political parties in the actual governance can be called into question.
BTW who would you say runs the EU? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:47 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
I'm not trying to convince anyone here that I've won the argument. I have.
In your opinion, perhaps. But should the overall decision be awarded by one of the debate participants? Conflict of interest, maybe?

Disco Boy wrote:
There doesn't need to be any convincing. Nor have I extended the topical boundaries of the debate.
This statement is false. Please refer to our Prince / Funk debate. Although I did appreciate the 'Thank You For Smoking' tactic. Great movie, by the way.

Disco Boy wrote:
Also, I only insult people who DESERVE IT.
Probably true, but you aren't doing yourself any favors.


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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:51 am 
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deuce wrote:
This is just a list of who's been voted in as a government and what side of middle they are perceived to be (USA republicans and democrats are both seen as right wing in the UK).
None of this debate seems to take into account who really runs these countries. Europe is run by the EU. England is run by the banks. Scotland is run by England. USA is run by the CIA. Italy is run by the mafia. South America is run by drugs cartels. The middle east is run by muslems. China is run by the Chinese. The world is run by replicon lizards etc etc.
And USA economy is fucked up more than most countries in the EU.

Each country's economy is run by their own central bank. And because of the fiat currency system, all central banks are basically run by the U.S.'s central bank, the Federal Reserve. Believe it or not though, the U.S. economy, as poor as it is, is fairing better than Spain, Italy, Greece and Cyprus.


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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:37 am 
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Caputh wrote:
BTW who would you say runs the EU? :wink:

The Belgians, or worse still, MEPs.
TT

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:59 am 
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deuce wrote:
Caputh wrote:
BTW who would you say runs the EU? :wink:

The Belgians, or worse still, MEPs.
TT


Ah - not the Germans then?

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:01 am 
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tiboudre wrote:
Each country's economy is run by their own central bank. And because of the fiat currency system, all central banks are basically run by the U.S.'s central bank, the Federal Reserve. Believe it or not though, the U.S. economy, as poor as it is, is fairing better than Spain, Italy, Greece and Cyprus.


At last an intelligent, well expressed argument by a libertarian (if I'm not mistaken). Thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:44 pm 
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perhaps disco is planning a run for office in 2016?

Jan 2012 - Speigel Online via abc usa page::

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
tiboudre wrote:
Each country's economy is run by their own central bank. And because of the fiat currency system, all central banks are basically run by the U.S.'s central bank, the Federal Reserve. Believe it or not though, the U.S. economy, as poor as it is, is fairing better than Spain, Italy, Greece and Cyprus.


At last an intelligent, well expressed argument by a libertarian (if I'm not mistaken). Thank you.


yea, it was pleasant, but Disco Boy's is funnier:

OKAY, little itty bitty children. EVERYONE knows each country's economy is run by a central bank. BUT because of the fiat currency system, all central banks are controlled by the U.S.'s central bank, the Federal Reserve, an unconstitutional institution. This is a FACT. Nearly EVERY gradeschool MORON knows this. The U.S. economy, poor as it is NOW, the true dark days are to come, mirroring the Socialist fiasco that is Spain, Italy, Greece and Cyprus. If we could just follow a strict Free Market ideology, everything would take care of itself. Look at the state of Prostitution and the Drug Trade. Libertarian principles at work, a model to be emulated. So, a few children are enslaved or die in the process. It’s the Ideology that counts! Get on the sideline, assholes. The Big Muckety Muck Has Spoken!


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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:14 pm 
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Self-Described Manipulative Shithead wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:

ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

Almost ALL UK/European countries are run by lefties or liberals. The ONLY strictly conservative-run party in ANY country within the aforementioned continent or region, is in Hungary. FACT. And it's NO surprise why that particular continent/region is generally worse off than we are on this side of the Atlantic...


Ah - a reply that could be considered a contribution to a debate.
However, it appears to be merely a restatement of your original premise and thus I still don't feel that you are really grasping the nettle of the criticisms of the arguments I was making.

Look, I'll give you some examples of what I mean and some counterarguments. I'm sure you could find others...

Caputh's claims a), b), c) and d)
a) The vast majority of EU countries are not run by socialists, but at least an equal number by Conservatives.

It is not enough IMO to complain that somebody is being manipulative by using the term "Conservative" instead of Centre-Left to describe these parties and then produce a link to a Wikipedia site entitled "List of Conservative Parties" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... by_country. I may be a manipulative shithead but is Wikipedia a manipulative shithead, too? Also, there are a number of parties on that list that tend to the extreme right, e.g. UKIP in Great Britain.
What you basically need to do here is to provide evidence that these individual Conservative/Centre-Right parties, at the very least, have overwhelmingly socialist/social liberal policies, or that their leaders make statements overtly favourable to socialism. Taking Germany as an example, you could point out that the Conservative/Centre Right CDU/CSU is currently engaged in coalition discussions with the Centre-Left (I have great problems in describing them as "socialist", but never mind) SPD. Therefore they must have some common ground with the Centre-Left. However, as Germany's economy appears to be a global success story for the majority of observers at the moment, this would rather negate the other arguments you are attempting to make.

b) Where the centre-right lies depends very much on the individual political landscape of the country concerned e.g. in Germany there are five parties to the left of the Conservative/Centre Right CDU/CSU.

Calling this a "red herring" is avoiding the heart of the matter, IMO. One could actually argue that there are also at least 5 parties to the right of the CDU/CSU, thus placing them firmly in the centre and closer to the SPD than to the Nazis. The only problem with this argument is that one would appear to be contending that Conservatives = Extreme Right Wing, something you come very close to doing when you describe the Hungarian government as the only real Conservatives in Europe. But if you take the term "Conservative" to denote homophobic, authoritarian xenophobes, then I suppose this is an argument.

c) The term "liberal" in Europe almost exclusively denotes parties that follow economic policies that are what Americans call fiscal Conservatism and/or laissez-faire liberalism.

This is a difficult one, as a large number of the European parties that explicitly call themselves "liberal" follow economic policies that are based on laissez-faire liberalism, an economic theory generally not found in socialism. This places these parties to the right of the political spectrum. A number of them are also Nationalists and some are positively xenophobic (e.g. FPÖ in Austria).You could point out that the UK Liberal Democrats who are, at this very moment, in a coalition government with the Conservatives fulfill the American definition of (social) liberal at least in their political philosophy. One would then, however, have to contend with the arguments:
i) They are an isolated case in Europe
ii) That the role they play in the coalition government is seen as so ineffective and the disappointment with their performance in carrying out (social) liberal policies is so great, that it would surprise me very much if they gained more than a handful of seats in the next election.
All the same, the last point is personal speculation on my part and could provide you with a valid point.

d) The term "centre" comes from the German "Zentrum", denoting a catholic, conservative, monarchist party.
This again is difficult to get 'round. A number of the leading figures of this party e.g. von Papen were close associates with the arch-Conservative Hindenburg. In fact Hindenburg only allowed Hitler to become chancellor, if his pal, Papen was made vice chancellor. It is, however, possible to argue that the term "centre" has undergone a semantic transformation in the post-war period, when general acceptance of Keynesian principles extended to all parties. One would then have to deal with the question whether the Thatcherite, neoliberal reforms have not ratcheted the economic debate in Europe back to the right.


I can't fucking believe I just read all of that utter garbage-riden verbosity. And big surprise, you're STILL throwing red-herrings and unable to admit you're wrong. It's a HUGE character flaw. Not only that but you continue to take several of my statements OUT OF CONTEXT, especially since I've NEVER described, "the Hungarian government as the only real Conservatives in Europe." I stated that Hungary is the only country on the aforementioned continent that is RUN by a strictly conservative party. That's a HUGE difference. Not only that but I've already provided DOZENS of links backing that up. Yet you continue to ignore them. STOP fucking around...

ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

Almost ALL UK/European countries are run by lefties/liberal/socialists, etc. The ONLY strictly conservative-run party in ANY country within the aforementioned continent or region, is in Hungary. FACT. And it's NO surprise why that particular continent/region is generally worse off than we are on this side of the Atlantic...

tiboudre wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
I'm not trying to convince anyone here that I've won the argument. I have.
In your opinion, perhaps.


No, sorry. I have.

tiboudre wrote:
But should the overall decision be awarded by one of the debate participants? Conflict of interest, maybe?


:roll:

tiboudre wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
There doesn't need to be any convincing. Nor have I extended the topical boundaries of the debate.
This statement is false. Please refer to our Prince / Funk debate. Although I did appreciate the 'Thank You For Smoking' tactic. Great movie, by the way.


No, it's not false.

tiboudre wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Also, I only insult people who DESERVE IT.
Probably true, but you aren't doing yourself any favors.


It is true.

tiboudre wrote:
Each country's economy is run by their own central bank. And because of the fiat currency system, all central banks are basically run by the U.S.'s central bank, the Federal Reserve. Believe it or not though, the U.S. economy, as poor as it is, is fairing better than Spain, Italy, Greece and Cyprus.


Good points.

But my points above have obviously more to do with overall policy structure, and not just economic, monetary or fiscal policy...

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:

I can't fucking believe I just read all of that utter garbage-riden verbosity. And big surprise, you're STILL throwing red-herrings and unable to admit you're wrong. It's a HUGE character flaw. Not only that but you continue to take several of my statements OUT OF CONTEXT, especially since I've NEVER described, "the Hungarian government as the only real Conservatives in Europe." I stated that Hungary is the only country on the aforementioned continent that is RUN by a strictly conservative party. That's a HUGE difference. Not only that but I've already provided DOZENS of links backing that up. Yet you continue to ignore them. STOP fucking around...



Only one new claim here. "Dozens of links".
One link only was provided by you: entitled (although you didn't include the title)
"List of Conservative Parties of the world"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... by_country.
... this was used by you to claim that they were all socialists.

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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:03 pm 
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addendum
Just so there's no misunderstanding: when I wrote "proved" I meant "proved". It wasn't bad grammar, it was not supposed to say "proven". Much has proved true. Very little has been proven.


There is no real debate. The International Class is running the show.

Countries are just little compartments in a rat maze.

Fear and the threat of violence is the master. Period. That's what you're going to find if you peel away all these layers of bullshit. You don't wanna run this whole thing down, do you? Do you really wanna know how dark it gets? I don't wanna know. I know enough already.

The economy is a game. Money is simply paper. There's plenty of trees*. There's no real debate in the end. The final argument is always "We'll destroy you".

*somewhere


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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Self-Described Manipulative Shithead wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
I can't fucking believe I just read all of that utter garbage-riden verbosity. And big surprise, you're STILL throwing red-herrings and unable to admit you're wrong. It's a HUGE character flaw. Not only that but you continue to take several of my statements OUT OF CONTEXT, especially since I've NEVER described, "the Hungarian government as the only real Conservatives in Europe." I stated that Hungary is the only country on the aforementioned continent that is RUN by a strictly conservative party. That's a HUGE difference. Not only that but I've already provided DOZENS of links backing that up. Yet you continue to ignore them. STOP fucking around...



Only one new claim here. "Dozens of links".
One link only was provided by you: entitled (although you didn't include the title)
"List of Conservative Parties of the world"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... by_country.
... this was used by you to claim that they were all socialists.


That's NOT exactly what I stated, jack-ass. STOP misquoting me. And you know what I meant, especially since we've been discussing this on & off for a few years now. The wiki link above has DOZENS of site links to each country that details their platforms/ideologies (I've already been over this)...

You're REALLY grasping at straws here, aren't you? :roll:

_________________
:53 - :57...

"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


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 Post subject: Re: The Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:24 pm 
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Posts: 2364
Disco Boy wrote:
The wiki link above has DOZENS of site links to each country that details their platforms/ideologies (I've already been over this)...


But countries are just compartments in a rat maze. It means nothing.

How about if some greedy little Canuck-hating country with a few nukes blows Canada off the face of the earth? What will all of this debating add up to when you're melting down? Are you gonna feel satisfied that you won a fucking debate on the internet while Canada, your beloved federal parliamentary democracy and constitutional monarchy, melts?? Who will win the Stanley Cup?!!


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