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[quote author=imisshimbad link=board=general;num=1085027194;start=45#49 date=05/22/04 at 10:08:32]I'm starting to warm up to that idea madcow, History, Math, Science, and Life could be the required courses for graduation((:[/quote]<br><br>It's funny that some of the most important knowledge that a person needs to make it through life is completely overlooked by public schools.

[quote author=MentalTossFlycoon link=board=general;num=1085027194;start=45#52 date=05/22/04 at 12:06:55]<br>This bill requires all young Americans--men and women between 18 and 26--to perform a two year period of national service in a military or civilian capacity as determined by the President. [/quote]<br><br>Um, ALL people between the ages of 18 and 26?  Is it even possible to do a draft of that magnitude?  That's one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.

[quote author=Batchain115 link=board=general;num=1085027194;start=45#55 date=05/22/04 at 19:03:04]<br> "With age comes wisdom"? Usually a little, sometimes a little more -- but not much and never enough. No one ever lives long enough for it and our brains begin to wither way too soon.<br>--Bat[/quote]<br>Probably not for everyone, and not in the same measure. About that, you're right. But I do see things differently now than I did 30 years ago. I wouldn't say I got all the wisdom there is. But I know I got myself some important bits. It came with experiences and observations throughout my lifetime. So, I do think wisdom comes with age. Well, part of it...  

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No doubt, we're doomed !

MTF, reading the bill, I couldn't help but think it was meant as an act of derision, like getting those rich sons into the reality of a war (like "that'll teach them !"). But I fear the irony may strikes back. Like opening a door you can't close.<br><br>I was a bit surprised to see Bush was against it. But thinking it over, I can imagine why. It may not prove to be a popular thing to be associated with when the election is coming and things aren't going well in Iraq. I am against it too but not for the same reasons.

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No doubt, we're doomed !

Most importantly,   <br>The draft will be there when we "need" it. If we keep up the pressure to install our government there and protect our contractors, then we are implying a continuation of the use of force. We got a heap of tired, shot at, homesick soldiers who have been there too long already, and as we can see, the anti-American violence is escalating. They are going to get tireder, and shot at more. They've been in harms way too long, and need to come home. If corporate want's to keep the hold on their interests there, the troops are going to have to be replaced.   <br>IMHO, it's secondary where any legislation is regarding the draft, because when we need more bodies, and we don't have them, then we will draft them. Therefor, the real question is....Will US action bring peace to Iraq. If the answer is yes, then we may get out of this without the draft...if the answer is No, then we will have to draft people to keep the war going. The real question to me is will the use of force, to promote American corporate interests, bring peace to Iraq. Therein lies the answer to the draft question.   <br>   <br>madcow, to answer your question, yes, they can do that, bur involving 18-26 yo's doesnt mean ALL 18-26 yo's are going to Iraq. What will happen is there will (likely), be a lottery where everyone's birthday is assigned a number. Starting with #1, a birthday is picked at random, and assigned to #1...then #2 and so on. Now that everyone has a number, they can start taking people as they need them, starting with #1, and if they run out of 1's, moving on to 2..and so on.   <br>   <br>MTF, thanks for posting Pete Starks statement. IMHO Pete Stark is one of the true hero's of the American people because he constantly votes AGAINST corporate intersts when they will hurt American people, (which they usually do). Stark puts put's people over corporate contributors, something 2/3's of congress does not do these days. Like Byrd, Stark is not afraid to fly against the corporate wind. To show what I mean, he voted against giving Bush the use of force In Iraq., he voted NO on the $400 Billion dollar pentagon pie, No on the infamous $87 billion, No on US support of Israel in the suppresion of palestineans, No on the P.A.T.R.I.O.T act, and the icing on the cake when virtually all the R's had sold out, and 60% of the D's had sold out, Stark voted NO on the *SPAM* windfall as well as Yes to alow imports from Canada in order to combat the price gouging from no legal competition. That's the short list for Stark, he's to be commended for flying in th eface of money, IMHO.   <br>With those wto things said, I think Stark is a smart guy...he know's the score. He knows a statement is due to show the reality of escalating the violence in Iraq. Both Bush and Kerry want to send 40,000 more troops to Iraq. It's going to cost American lives. I think the existance of the statement is more important than the topic of who's Senator's son is going to get drafted. Neither Bush or Kerry wants "the draft" to be connected to their wish of sending more people to Iraq, it would cost them votes. Rather, they both know the draft will be there when we need more bodies. IMHO, kudo's to Mr Stark for showing the American people what we are escalating.    <br>I think the answer to the draft question lies in one's opinion of if we can force our corporate interests on the Iraqi people. If they will succumb to our force, the draft may not be needed..if they fight against corporate interests, then we will have to beat them into submission...all 1.2 billion of them(Muslem brotherhood, they won't abandon their brothers)...and for a war of that magnitude, we will need the draft.

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"Winning the war on jihadist extremism is the Democratic Party's first priority this year and every year until the danger recedes" Open letter from the (Clintonite) Democratic Leadershp Council

[quote author=imisshimbad link=board=general;num=1085027194;start=45#59 date=05/23/04 at 04:49:42]we will have to beat them into submission...all 1.2 billion of them(Muslem brotherhood, they won't abandon their brothers)...and for a war of that magnitude, we will need the draft. [/quote]<br><br>And other countries too. WW3 ? All this for the interests of the big Corpos ? Destroy Earth for satisfying all this greed ? Sad, sad, sad...

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No doubt, we're doomed !

[quote author=madcow1515 link=board=general;num=1085027194;start=30#37 date=05/21/04 at 23:37:11]<br><br> Referring to all teenagers as Abercrombie punks makes about as much sense as thinking all black men are gang members.[/quote]<br><br>My intention wasn't to refer to all teens as Abercrombie punks. The only people I wanted to call this were these rich, whiny kids I see coming out of this place day in and day out. Nothing more nauseating than some sixteen year old kid in my store, talking away on the fucking cell phone. Seriously, how much social status can you have already?

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[quote author=Mij link=board=general;num=1085027194;start=60#60 date=05/23/04 at 08:28:26]<br><br>And other countries too. WW3 ? All this for the interests of the big Corpos ? Destroy Earth for satisfying all this greed ? Sad, sad, sad... [/quote]<br><br>"We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership"<br>From PNAC doctrine...<br>http://www.newamericancentury.org./statementofprinciples.htm<br><br>According to PNAC doctrine, (most of the war gang are PNAC members), the present balance of power with the friendly European nations is acceptable, but no nation will be allowed to become more powerful. The aggressive stance in PNAC is mostly in Muslem nations where there is oil, and sometimes masses of cheap labor, such as in Indonesia. Those are the places for expansion, not Europe. (I might guess that Iran is next unless another opportunity arises to be siezed).<br><br>Your "destroy Earth" idea may actually be plausable. We have had wars before where countries have fought with all they had...many times in history this has happened. But today, we have the means to quickly make the Earth uninhabitable with three seperate technologies, nuclear, chemical, and biological. It's already not beyond the realm of imagination that NYC could wake up to a big mess tomorrow, the peaceful US is not the only one with these weapons. We cannot have another World War, the chances that no one will survive is a real possibility this time because of all the technology, and how far it has proliferated.....for the first time in Earth's history this is the case, we have not had a big war since this has been the case.<br><br>It means we face a grave situation, but we face it without being afraid of it, it's something to work hard (be vocal), to avoid, but it's not something to worry about. It means if we do things the same way, we will progress the same way. It means we need to do something different, (IMHO, vote corporate out of US policy).<br><br>If an enviromental or an economic catastrophe does not occur, I still don't think the US can win against such large numbers of Muslems. Right now, US taxpayers funds a military budget that is almost as large as the rest of the world put together (while we have no medical, and treat elderly ilke dirt), and most of the Muslems are in a poor state. However, economic forces here at home, and similar forces in the Muslem world will change todays balance, and Americans are way outnumbered by Muslems.<br><br>And regardless of what happens there, the Chinese are becoming more technologically advanced, and they have resources. Unless the US becomes a catalyst to world unity (we have the resources to do that, but it would need an alert and voting US citizenship), then the Chinese will be first power...probably in the next 100 years.<br>

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"Winning the war on jihadist extremism is the Democratic Party's first priority this year and every year until the danger recedes" Open letter from the (Clintonite) Democratic Leadershp Council

You have to excuse me. I have this anger against Corpos since I saw the film "The corporations". Well, I had it before, but it grew in pyramidal proportion. Just 2 examples. What Monsanto did in order to increase milk production is a barbarian act, to say the least. Americans are now drinking suspicious milk. And that other Corpo, which I don't remember the name (there was a LOT of info in that film) who gain control and possession of ALL the water (get details at: http://www.cbc.ca/news/features/water/bolivia.html ), even the rain, and make these people pay 50 cents a day for it when all they're earning is 2 dollars. <br>The Corpos absolutely have no heart and no conscience. They should be outlawed. Don't count on it.<br><br>Oh, there was that other thing about getting patents about human life. We'd have to ask these guys permission and pay a due to have a child ?<br><br>Since Corpos are supposed, by the law, to be "Moral person", the film tried to define what kind of a person they are. It turned out to be that they were psychopaths.

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No doubt, we're doomed !

[quote author=Gonzo link=board=general;num=1085027194;start=60#61 date=05/23/04 at 08:30:52]<br><br>My intention wasn't to refer to all teens as Abercrombie punks. The only people I wanted to call this were these rich, whiny kids I see coming out of this place day in and day out. Nothing more nauseating than some sixteen year old kid in my store, talking away on the fucking cell phone. Seriously, how much social status can you have already? [/quote]<br><br> <br>yer describing my 14 year old and his pals to a tee....i'm in a minneapolis suburb, same as you.   ALL the kids his age in the suburbs have phone's..  yeah,  it's a status thing, sure...   it doesnt mean the  kids come from wealthy families.  my family is mom and dad,  daughter judy,  and his boy elroy.   ALL 4 of us work.   WE LIVE CHECK TO CHECK..   i'm in debt up to my ass.trying to send a kid to college.  <br>my son works and pays for every penney of his cell phone use --- that was the deal...get a job and pay the bill...  i'm glad he has it.  it's come in handy a couple times.   and he is learning a life lesson..<br><br>now,  there are some punky little fuckers out there that piss me off, same as you.   some of them are my son's friends.  little bastards just yesterday deciided to terrorize the commuters on the bike path behind my house by hanging string and thread accross it.  pissed off some guy on his very expensive recumbant bike big time.   chased these kids down....  i had to drive 'em all home and have words with all the parents.   pretty harmless prank, but not in my back yard !!   so i understand where you're coming from (i think).. <br><br>my point is there are some kids out there that are ok.   i think they're in the minority, unfortunately.. lots of screwed up kids out there..<br>i know a bunch of 'em personally.  and thier parents..  most of the people we know are 2 income families,  living lives pretty much like mine.   not many people i know would be considered "rich" by any standards, but it's THIER kids you're refering to.  <br><br>any ways,  this was about the draft.   i'm undecided about it personally.   in 4 years my son will be 18.  i shudder to think that the current state of the world will be such that ANY wars are being waged anywhere in the world.    <br><br>when the hell are we humans gonna learn to get along!?!?!  <br><br>ree<br><br>

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You're in the Minneapolis area too Reednzl? It must have been you who bought that copy of Thing Fish that I wanted!  ;D If I remember correctly there are two more members here who are in Minnesota. Vapo, Me, you, and someone else....can't remember who. The last member, who I cant remember lives in Golden Valley. I hate it when my brain isn't cooperating. Anyway, the whole point of this response is that there seem to be a lot of Zappa fans in Minnesota. I've only seen one though.

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[quote author=Gonzo link=board=general;num=1085027194;start=60#65 date=05/24/04 at 07:41:01]You're in the Minneapolis area too Reednzl? It must have been you who bought that copy of Thing Fish that I wanted!  ;D If I remember correctly there are two more members here who are in Minnesota. Vapo, Me, you, and someone else....can't remember who. The last member, who I cant remember lives in Golden Valley. I hate it when my brain isn't cooperating. Anyway, the whole point of this response is that there seem to be a lot of Zappa fans in Minnesota. I've only seen one though.[/quote]<br><br><br>"Who could Imagine...that they'd be Freaking out in Minnesota!"<br><br>It can't happen here!

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"Winning the war on jihadist extremism is the Democratic Party's first priority this year and every year until the danger recedes" Open letter from the (Clintonite) Democratic Leadershp Council

OR EVEN FREAKING OUT IN RHODE ISLAND !!  <br><br>HOOO AHHHH<br><br>

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I just read an editorial on Yahoo news.  In it the writer rattles off a couple interesting facts about the necisity of the draft.<br><br>Well, if the sec of defense says no need and the pres and vp say no need, why are we wasting tax money presenting the possibility to congress?  One side of this argument is completely insane (or both sides)

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Got this e-mail this morning even though I never requested any information.<br><br>Hello Brian, <br>Thank you for your interest in the United States Army. From Intelligence Analyst to Computer Programmer, there are over 150 ways to be AN ARMY OF ONE in the U.S. Army. The information you requested is on its way. <br><br>In the meantime you can chat with Army Recruiters online. Click into the www.goarmy.com/chat section and they will answer any Army question you might have. You can also call a Recruiter at the U.S. Army Recruiting Station by phone at 315-331-7625. <br><br>Sincerely,<br>Thomas E. Nickerson<br>Colonel, U.S. Army<br>United States Army Recruiting Command<br>www.goarmy.com <br><br>Note: This is a post only email. Please do not reply to this message. For all inquiries, go to www.goarmy.com or send an email to GoArmy@usarec.army.mil <br><br>We hope you have appreciated receiving this message. If you'd rather not receive messages about Army opportunities, or feel you have received this e-mail in error, please accept our apology. <br><br>To unsubscribe from our list, please click here. <br><br> Seems there's room in the Army for a 46 year old Morphine junkie who can't walk.Hope they send me to Afghanistan I hear the poppy crop is doing great these days....<br>                 <br>                                         BC...  8)

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[quote author=BC link=board=general;num=1085027194;start=60#72 date=05/26/04 at 06:59:07]Got this e-mail this morning even though I never requested any information.<br><br>Hello Brian, <br>Thank you for your interest in the United States Army. From Intelligence Analyst to Computer Programmer, there are over 150 ways to be AN ARMY OF ONE in the U.S. Army. The information you requested is on its way. <br><br>In the meantime you can chat with Army Recruiters online. Click into the www.goarmy.com/chat section and they will answer any Army question you might have. You can also call a Recruiter at the U.S. Army Recruiting Station by phone at 315-331-7625. <br><br>Sincerely,<br>Thomas E. Nickerson<br>Colonel, U.S. Army<br>United States Army Recruiting Command<br>www.goarmy.com <br><br>Note: This is a post only email. Please do not reply to this message. For all inquiries, go to www.goarmy.com or send an email to GoArmy@usarec.army.mil <br><br>We hope you have appreciated receiving this message. If you'd rather not receive messages about Army opportunities, or feel you have received this e-mail in error, please accept our apology. <br><br>To unsubscribe from our list, please click here. <br><br> Seems there's room in the Army for a 46 year old Morphine junkie who can't walk.Hope they send me to Afghanistan I hear the poppy crop is doing great these days....<br>                 <br>                                         BC...  8)[/quote]<br>apparently since the fall of the taliban, heroin production as increased tenfold.....once again the west has fulfilled another promise.. the  free market in the region is thriving again

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All I can say is, this war we're in against extremists is every bit as urgent as WWII so I'm not at all surprised a draft is in the works. It speaks volumes about the gravity of the situation. The problem with the draft is that too many people from other countries are living here that the gov'ts not aware of. They have the benefits of living in our Country but won't have to go fight. That's what sucks. Not to sound racist(I'm actually not) but what about all the Asians, Middle Easterns, Indians, etc living here without proper documents or whatever. Will they have to help defend our nation?? Probably not. So whites, blacks can go and get killed for our Country but these other groups don't have to do shit. Whatever.

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