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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Plook wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
Wow.....I heard this morning that he had a respiratory infection but they didn't let on that it was that bad.



He had been ill for a while, it had just been played down in the news. Maybe someone not so hell bent against the US will take power, but I'm not holding my breath...lol... :smoke:

He was not so hell bent against the US because of the sake of being, he hardened his line after the US supported failed coup from 2002.
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised - Chavez: Inside the Coup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id--ZFtjR5c

Your right of course,the US does this shit wherever it thinks it's needed.We lead our soldiers into these god bless America attacks on other countries and end up in wars we can't win.We need to cut of the head off the snake,congress.I bet the real American people would be just fine with more local/state government,rather than depending on the military complex to feed the machine that's become Washington DC's congress. It's our congress that has all these military/civilian jobs back in their home distric,that drives our need for war.Americans should look to their own backyards before we try and Americanize others.I can count at least 5 or more "bases" that are within 2 hours drive of me.California's not being attacked and hasn't sense WWII.The Miltary Complex has rooted it's ugly self in the hearts of all Americans.Who would spit on a soldier now? People who join the armed forces are learning to kill,when they should fall back and protect.Intellegence is a better weapon.Look at the weapons of mass destruction debacle that became the Iraq/Afghanistan wars.Look back at 'Nam.No one is learning from our mistakes!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:03 pm 
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I hardly consider looking out for the best interest of one's nation being bad. US history is riddled with bad guys such as Truman, Regan and the Bush hereditary Empire, those responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocents in Japan, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc, etc et al. Sorry, Plook, but we strongly disagree on that. I am looking forward to watch the Oliver Stone documentary South of the Border:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vBlV5TUI64

I have repeatedly recommended the Untold History of the United States here, but no one seemed to care...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
I hardly consider looking out for the best interest of one's nation being bad. US history is riddled with bad guys such as Truman, Regan and the Bush hereditary Empire, those responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocents in Japan, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc, etc et al. Sorry, Plook, but we strongly disagree on that. I am looking forward to watch the Oliver Stone documentary South of the Border:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vBlV5TUI64

I have repeatedly recommended the Untold History of the United States here, but no one seemed to care...

Read the post before yours.I care bro'and have been looking for something relevant to read.Thanx man! 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:25 pm 
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I know, KK, thanks. Damn Powers That Be...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:03 pm 
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pope jimbo/caputh wrote:
Leave my (huge, but largely unused) balls out of this.

Largely unused? My faith in your papal infallibility is sorely shaken!

Image. caputh: best post in this entire thread

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:11 pm 
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BBP wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
BBP wrote:
An American toddler who was born with HIV, seems to be cured after an intensive treatment of the virus.

If it's curable then it's not the same AIDS that we all know. Doctors in the future will have to find a new name for whatever disease that little girl had.

Don't you think it's interesting that when the child stopped going for treatments that's when her so called AIDS disappeared? Crazy.


HIV is not AIDS. HIV is the virus that can cause the AIDS syndrom.

The AIDS syndrom alters the DNA of existing cells, and once it's manifested, it cannot be cured and leads to certain death. You can prevent HIV from causing AIDS by taking a medicine cocktail. The other person who is believed to have cured from HIV had a stem cell transplantation, a very severe procedure that has a high mortality. This toddler was given a massive amount of medication starting at 30 days old; quite a lot for a little baby.


I guess you think I'm a total idiot. Fair enough. But just to be clear: I realize the difference between HIV and AIDS. And I knew about the man in San Francisco. I also know of people who have been misdiagnosed as being HIV positive who later turned out to be fine. Doctors fuck up. But there is no known cure for HIV. What cocktail?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:35 pm 
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tweedle-dee wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
(MISQUOTE): I've provided more than an abundance of evidence backing up my case. Whereas, you've done SHIT to back your case up, you fucking asshole.

Are you joking? You almost ALWAYS disagree with me You really are a complete dumb fuck.
Yeah, I know. But don't laugh, folks...this fucker is serious...Yeah, I know. But don't laugh, folks...this fucker is serious...

Anyway...

Keep FAILIN' and FAILIN' HARD, It's always such a wonderful & entertaining show you put on.



That train ain't never late... :smoke:


STOP misquoting me, asshole. :roll:

Thinman wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
… I've provided …

Consult a doctor. Seriously.


I rest my case.

Mij wrote:
Ignoring the benefits of Capitalism and concentrating on the negative aspects of it ?
The positives FAR outweigh the negatives ?


Yes. And yes.

Mij wrote:
I had to read twice to be sure !


Well, then you'll have to read it again to be even more sure.

Mij wrote:
We're losing the planet because of greed largely promoted by capitalism.
When it's done, where will be the positive aspects of capitalism ?
We don't need more capitalism on this planet, we need less !


So you STILL don't know the difference between a Mixed Economy and Capitalism, eh?

Mij wrote:
Please, don't give us links that prove your point, forcing us to lose our time finding links that'll say the opposite.


None of the links I've provided state the opposite of my points of view. Please start educating yourself and stop buying into Socialist/Communist BS.

Mij wrote:
Do yourself a favor, calm down, go outside, take a walk, talk to your neighbours, smile to children,
give spare change to somebody in need, breathe some fresh air in a park nearby.


I do most of those things almost every day.

polydigm wrote:
Basically, DB is a one dimensional thinker trying to understand and comment upon three dimensional ideas.
Disco Boy wrote:
... and those crazy things called FACTS ...

His comments are full of this kind of language which has no place in true intellectual debate. I studied philosophy, history, sociology and psychology at post graduate level and had to hold my own in two main arenas. The first was tutorials where amongst a group of my peers I had to debate some issue or other. Talk like DB's would have just been laughed out of the room. His writing is riddled with invective padding and extreme claims about various people's lack of understanding:


I've backed up my claims with either compelling evidence or FACTS. But all you can do is claim because you've studied at a "post graduate level", that that automatically makes you comprehend this subject more than I, when it clearly doesn't. You need to start backing your claims up. And until you do, it's all smooth sailing for me from here on in, especially since you don't have the slightest understanding of what Capitalism is and/or how crucial it's been and will continue to be for society as a whole...

polydigm wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Industrial Revolution is not equivalent to Capitalist Revolution.

Disco Boy wrote:
Whether you want to believe it or not, Capitalism and the Industrial Revolution walked hand in hand and were, are and will continue to be extremely essential to the quality of life.

You want an intellectual debate and yet you don't know what equivalent means. If I say A is not equivalent to B that is not a statement that says A and B are entirely different, except perhaps in your black and white world. The Industrial Revolution is a human achievement that will stand the test of time as discoveries, once they are made are not easily forgotten, whereas Capitalism is a social organising principal. There is no absolute logic that has been established by anyone that proves that eventually moving on from Capitalism will negate the benefits of the Industrial Revolution. Who gives a shit about who the Primeminister or President was over a 100 years ago, but no-one will ever forget or doubt the significance of the discovery of electromagnetism.


I know what equivalent means. But I said that Capitalism and the Industrial Revolution walked hand in hand. And they did. And it seemed like you were disagreeing with that. In fact, it appeared you thought they were enemies or something? And now you don't?!

And who's talking about that moving on from Capitalism negates the benefits of the Industrial Revolution?! Not me. :roll:

polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Just about ANYONE who lives in a Capitalist and/or Mixed Economy wants to make more capital.

Do you even know what the term capital means? The money earned by anyone who labours to make a living wage is not capital. It's soon spent on ... gues what ... living.


Wtf? :roll:

The money earned by anyone who labours to make a living wage is DEFINITELY capital. And in most cases, not all of it has to be spent on living...only part of it does.

polydigm wrote:
A true capitalist is one who has accumulated enough wealth to negate the need to labour for wages, who privately owns some of the means of production, enabling him to expand his wealth by reaping the surplus value of that production. That is, a very small privileged class of people. The vast majority of the human race labours to make a living in one way or another connected with the functioning of the means of production.


Wtf? :roll:

Generally speaking, that's only part of what Capitalism or the term capital means. ANYONE making a living in a Capitalist and/or Mixed Economy makes capital and can choose to spend that on whatever they wish, minus living costs and expenses. And of course Capitalism is connected with the functioning of the means of production because that's part of how and why the system works! There are evils embedded within it, there's no doubt about that. But you're making it seem like most people are victims of Capitalism, when it's the COMPLETE opposite. And it's truly astonishing to me you don't seem to realize that.

polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
But there's actually two kinds of greed, financially speaking. But for some reason, many people can't separate or distinguish between the two. One of course is the extremely selfish kind, which brings out the negative aspects of Capitalism and gives it a bad name sometimes ...

In other words greed as we all already know it means.


No, it's one definition of what it means.

polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
... But the other, is the necessary kind, where productivity, pride in achievement and hard work drives people to flourish in a positive way...and THAT'S what makes the world go 'round.

That is not greed by any stretch of the imagination and it is an insult to name it so. If "... productivity, pride in achievement and hard work drives people to flourish in a positive way...and that's what makes the world go 'round ..." why do we need private ownership or capitalism?


Are you joking? :roll:

We need it because Socialism/Communism doesn't give us productivity, pride in achievement and hard work that drives people to flourish in a positive way. Nor will those two systems EVER come even remotely close to doing so, or what Capitalism and/or many types of Mixed Economies have done for society.

polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
But Capitalism is FAR superior to any economic system you can name. This is not even debatable.

So why are trying to debate it? (The suggestion that DB might actually be debating is debatable ...)


I'm not. I'm educating you. And unfortunately, or fortunately, you clearly need educating on this topic.

polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
It's a shame that you seemingly don't understand Capitalism. And that's not only because you amazingly think it didn't play a HUGELY important role in the Industrial Revolution or that it wasn't embedded within this period ...

polydigm wrote:
The emergence of the former may have been unleashed by the strivings of the latter, but the industrial revolution is a human achievement.

I didn't say any of what you're claiming, you have assumed it based on a one dimensional interpretation of three dimensional thinking. I personally believe that Capitalism played a huge role in the emergence of the Industrial Revolution.


Then why the hell were you arguing with me about it for it seems like pages now?! :roll:

polydigm wrote:
But, likewise, the emergence of Capitalism owes its beginnings to the existence of Feudalism which in turn lifted us out of the earliest forms of the state based significantly on slavery. Your faith in Capitalism is no less fervent than that of various Feudal masters who weren't happy about losing their power to the rising capitalist class. A revolution which took at least 400 years in England before it was finally enshrined in what we now call modern parliament. And it was a revolution which lost little or nothing of the benefits of the system that went before it.


Now that's something that is debatable.

polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
... but also because in most cases, Capitalism only flourishes if the market (the people) allows it to...

So are you seriously saying that the "market" is equivalent to "the people"?


Yes. And that's because it is in most cases.

polydigm wrote:
Who or what is "Capitalism" and who or what is "the people" and how does each act in the real world? Capitalism is a handful of people who get to dominate our lives, the people, everyone else, are ultimately very poorly represented in modern parliament and don't get to allow or disallow anything much directly.


Capitalism is an economic system that has worked wonders for the majority of people in the world. It has provided technological improvements, innovations, incentive, productivity, diligence, determination and capital, etc., for people's work and efforts. And without it, we'd be beyond fucked, especially with systems such as Socialism and/or Communism that have FAILED and FAILED HARD in EVERY single case they've been tried.

polydigm wrote:
The Capitalist ruling class of today, however coherent a group they may or may not be are holding onto the hands of the clock just like their Feudal forbears when their time was up and it took well more than 400 years to come about. We've been trying Socialism for about 100 years. Yes, so far we have failed miserably, but that doesn't mean that we've passed through many major changes in social organisation through history only now to suddenly stop at the miserably pathetic random, weather forcast, evangelistic belief in Capitalism. History has a tendency to disagree with such naivité. Just because we don't know what the solution is, doesn't prove it can't happen. If nothing else, Capitalism itself has already proved that beyond a doubt. The writing is on the wall.


Are you actually defending Socialism and/or Communism, despite the FACT it clearly has NEVER worked.

You need some serious history lessons. And FAST. Holy jumping shit-balls, Batman. :roll:

Caputh wrote:
One could gain the impression that Disco Boy's main intention is to take the ball(s) home with him... :wink:


What an excellent rebuttal!

tweedle-dumb wrote:
One things for sure, his Crystal Balls are shooting blanks when it comes to predictions. He needs political via-gra.


Really? What predictions have I made that haven't come true?

tweedle-dumb wrote:
My Crystal Balls predict that Dumbfuck Boy will re-post his list again at some point., likely at many more points.


You're going to need "Crystal Balls" if you're going to keep stating the complete BS you state on a daily basis.

tweedle-dumb wrote:
So to you, wiping out a race of people is the positive that outweighs the negative? No wonder why you're a Dr Ron "Josef Mengele" Paul supporter.


Denying the FACT that Capitalism has benefited the majority of people worldwide, is utter lunacy. But then again, this is you, so I'm not surprised you'd nitpick and concentrate on one of the negative aspects of it.

tweedle-dumb wrote:
Boy is confusing capitalism with imperialism.


Oh...the irony of that statement!

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Last edited by Disco Boy on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:36 am, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:47 pm 
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I told you.Don't fuck with the big balls guy! You go DB! :wink:


Just one thing.IT'S NOT REALLY BREAKING NEWS OR ANYTHING,YA,KNOW! That help,I mean isn't there a thread for political discourse?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:59 pm 
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Dumbass Boy wrote:

Are you actually defending Socialism and/or Communism, despite the FACT it clearly has NEVER worked.

You need some serious history lessons. And FAST. Holy jumping shit-balls, Batman. :roll:




Word for word argument...

http://isaacbaranoff.wordpress.com/

...it's all there...Ayn Rand, Batman...ect ect ect...right down to his arguments against ollectivism and Socialism.

Disco Boy IS Isaac Baranoff.

Reading his rebuttal of polydigm, and his ass kissing of Caputh...he's Isaac. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:04 am 
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tweedle-dumb wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:

Are you actually defending Socialism and/or Communism, despite the FACT it clearly has NEVER worked.

You need some serious history lessons. And FAST. Holy jumping shit-balls, Batman. :roll:




Word for word argument...

http://isaacbaranoff.wordpress.com/

...it's all there...Ayn Rand, Batman...ect ect ect...right down to his arguments against ollectivism and Socialism.

Disco Boy IS Isaac Baranoff.

Reading his rebuttal of polydigm, and his ass kissing of Caputh...he's Isaac. :roll:


Wrong...yet AGAIN.

And there is not even ONE word for word statement that I've made that Isaac has made, moron.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:07 am 
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Quote:
Disco Bully Boy wrote :
None of the links I've provided state the opposite of my points of view. Please start educating yourself and stop buying into Socialist/Communist BS.


And I reply:
That's not what I said. You can't read correctly. Of course, you won't provide us links that say the opposite of what you keep telling
us on and on and on and on. And I didn't ask that you do it yourself. Reread ! Did it ever occurs to you that there are links will say
the exact opposite of what you say ? Did it ever occurs to you that they may be sometime right ? Don't tell, I already know your answer.

You like to state "your" facts again and again, to the point that you can't no longer see "evidences" all around you.
The world collapses but you feel safe and secure in your capitalism mantra. Greed ? No comprendo !
And you like to give shit to those who'd like to open your eyes.
You are a parfait petit crétin !
:roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:01 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
I hardly consider looking out for the best interest of one's nation being bad. US history is riddled with bad guys such as Truman, Regan and the Bush hereditary Empire, those responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocents in Japan, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc, etc et al. Sorry, Plook, but we strongly disagree on that. I am looking forward to watch the Oliver Stone documentary South of the Border:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vBlV5TUI64

I have repeatedly recommended the Untold History of the United States here, but no one seemed to care...



Trust me I know what the US is up to in that department, I believe they call it Nation Building, but it is an attempt to get a person in power they desire...this is more a function of the CIA and Black Ops.

In reality Obama has gone away from that and more into getting the boots on the ground threats to our nation, which while an improvement from trying to fix a nation has a collateral damage issue that causes problems. Of course it does not count when Terrorist take out a day care, a school, a hospital, or such...but who said war is fair.

Like I say you need go no further than he was an anti Semite, that disqualifies him for me, it is a fatal flaw...if you can live with that, that’s ok too, often people look past these problems, I say "Never Forget"...

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:11 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
STOP misquoting me, asshole.



Right on time...that train ain't never late... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:26 am 
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Gosh, and I was so happy that Spacebro/Baddy feud was dormant. There you have, breaking news with the death of Chavez, UN-workers taken hostage in Syria ad the market of Groningen flooding with police because the boss of the local football team accidently pressed his alarm button on his desk, and all you can do is split hairs and force the rest of us to look at the mess.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:28 am 
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Mij wrote:
You are a parfait petit crétin !
:roll:

Oh claque!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
tweedle-dumb wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:

Are you actually defending Socialism and/or Communism, despite the FACT it clearly has NEVER worked.

You need some serious history lessons. And FAST. Holy jumping shit-balls, Batman. :roll:




Word for word argument...

http://isaacbaranoff.wordpress.com/

...it's all there...Ayn Rand, Batman...ect ect ect...right down to his arguments against ollectivism and Socialism.

Disco Boy IS Isaac Baranoff.

Reading his rebuttal of polydigm, and his ass kissing of Caputh...he's Isaac. :roll:


Wrong...yet AGAIN.

And there is not even ONE word for word statement that I've made that Isaac has made, moron.


Yeah right... :roll:


Isaac just so happens to post about his Ayn Rand love fest on a blog elsewhere, at almost the exact same moment in time that you started discussing the exact same book here on this forum. Give it up Isaac. The gigs up. You've been found out. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:23 pm 
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BBP wrote:
Gosh, and I was so happy that Spacebro/Baddy feud was dormant. There you have, breaking news with the death of Chavez, UN-workers taken hostage in Syria ad the market of Groningen flooding with police because the boss of the local football team accidently pressed his alarm button on his desk, and all you can do is split hairs and force the rest of us to look at the mess.

It's like we're not even here and there's no breakin news that's more important. :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:03 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
What predictions have I made that haven't come true?

Not one! All of your predictions are right on! I'm curious.... Is your father a lawyer? A judge? A shaman? A fortune teller? Just what does/did your father do for a living? What about your grandfather? What business was he in? If you don't mind me asking.

Disco Boy wrote:
without (capitalism), we'd be beyond fucked,

Right on, brother! Fuck yeah! Preach! Tell it like you think it is. Tell it like you wish it was. You are one in a billion. Like a savior. Can we nail you to a cross soon?

Summary of what I have learned from Disco Boy:

Obama is a capitalist. If you hate Obama you hate capitalism. Obama is in the business of making as much money for himself and his cronies as possible. That is capitalism. Obama/capitalism rules! Capitalism is the only way. It is the light! It is the truth and it is the answer. Praise Obama! Praise DiscoBalls and praise our factories, mills, mines and pipelines. Pipelines saved the whales, you know. Capitalism will save mankind! Repent, heathens! Repent and go to debate class.

(Forgive me for questioning you, my lord, but why the hell do you call yourself Disco Boy? Zappa had nothing but contempt for the character known as Disco Boy. Disco Boy was a dumb asshole)


Quote:
It's like we're not even here and there's no breakin news that's more important. :roll:

What about this cure for HIV? I'm pretty sure capitalism cures the AIDS virus.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:39 pm 
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Glorification of the Disco Boy song? I'm attached to it, since it's eased my way into FZ. Three times after each other I'd listened to my new purchase Son Of Cheep Thrills, and when I went to bed that night and tried to recall the music, it took me quite some time to come up with some. I remembered "Disco boooohoooy!" and proceeded to play that one a couple more times. Start of a life long love for FZ music.
Anyway you should see how many people raise their thumbs during Wind Up Working At A Gas Station at ZPZ concerts.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:58 pm 
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BBP wrote:
Glorification of the Disco Boy song? I'm attached to it, since it's eased my way into FZ. Three times after each other I'd listened to my new purchase Son Of Cheep Thrills, and when I went to bed that night and tried to recall the music, it took me quite some time to come up with some. I remembered "Disco boooohoooy!" and proceeded to play that one a couple more times. Start of a life long love for FZ music.
Anyway you should see how many people raise their thumbs during Wind Up Working At A Gas Station at ZPZ concerts.



Hey I always throw up my thumb...jump into an action pose, definitely make some kind of ridiculous facial expression (which normally includes a wink)...and when I'm really having fun I take my thumb and my finger and I hold it in an "L" on my forehead....Dam life is good…

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:03 pm 
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BBP wrote:
Glorification of the Disco Boy song? I'm attached to it, since it's eased my way into FZ. Three times after each other I'd listened to my new purchase Son Of Cheep Thrills, and when I went to bed that night and tried to recall the music, it took me quite some time to come up with some. I remembered "Disco boooohoooy!" and proceeded to play that one a couple more times. Start of a life long love for FZ music.



Wow. So the song Disco Boy was your introduction to Zappa? It was Camarillo Brillo for me.

BBP wrote:
Anyway you should see how many people raise their thumbs during Wind Up Working At A Gas Station at ZPZ concerts.

A lot of really dumb people in that crowd, eh? Makes sense.
:wink:


Last edited by downer mydnyte on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Disco was capitalism, that's for sure.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:26 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:42 pm 
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R.I.P. Hugo Chavez.

Capitalism will always prevail, because capitalism defends itself, and destroys others. No one will ever create a socialist imperialism, because there really isn't any money in that. Making up phony excuses to invade resource rich countries is what capitalism does...and if these countries by tradition do not practice usury, then so much the better for getting rid of them, sayeth the Western banks.

Socialism or communism will never overcome capitalism. China's new "growth" is all due to capitalism. What's the use of having a billion Chinese peasants if no one will enslave them?

Many socialist leaders come to power through the activation of the poorer peoples. Chavez was much loved by his people, but much hated by the dollar. Capitalism now salivates over all that oil under unstable political ground.

All wars are banker's wars.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... erwars.php


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:28 pm 
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Location: From some place in this area...
A concise summary of truth...

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

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