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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:52 am 
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pedro2 wrote:
We have seen special interest groups , no matter how small they are , set precedent for majorities of others.

We have seen all of these things under the guise of ' advancement '.

We have seen a lot of smoke and mirrors and have seen a hungry and stupid population fall for it because of the practices from our government leaders , not for lack of it.


Spacebro, I strenuously disagree with your responses to pedro's statements above. Which I think are honest takes of what he sees rather than just talking points. But this is not the time for me to go into it. Thanks for your praise but am not a joiner and always itch at 'being included'. Same with the pop psychology of Camus' 'essential estrangement' because I feel it helped give rise to truly yucky things like the neo-liberalism of Clinton and Obama. Sorry.

Pedro I totally agree with your statements above and the other questions posed as such.
There are many many things that go into it.
Obama and his allies are trying to address it one way and it's certainly NOT socialism and old money has temporarily alligned with energy co's, the KOCH's, *SPAM*, big Insurance and Wal-Mart etc. and are looking at fixing a clean sweep in the other direction. Like emergency managers like in Detroit but anywhere property/assets can be snatched up cheaply. For eventual investment and profit. When things turn around.

But on Obama, besides the NSA/Surveillance travesty, the war on whistleblowers, expansion of the use of drones and general continued expansion of executive privilege, O's econ policy has mostly been awful and entirely too dependent on Gheitner and Bernenke's assurances. If Obama and Congress get their way, the revolving door between wall street and policymakers will continue to the detriment of the rest of the world.
The ex governor of NJ Corzine is just one example of very many and both sides most definitely do it.

The needs of special interests has weighed far too heavily on national politics and remains a very large problem. Congresscritters spend so much of their time, every day, making calls, trying to raise money for campaigns and the party that they have no time to talk to constituents. Or read all what's in the bills and debate them. They have to spend 6-8 hours a day, across the street, calling up lobbyists, asking to get to go to speak at engagements or make deals for money. The lobbyists with the most money are supplied by the biggest industries who very often these days write their own bills with little oversight by anyone other than those on the committee who also get money for their continued compliance and subservience. It's been that way and only gotten worse, since Boehner was handing out checks from the tobacco industry to Reps on the house floor, oh so many years ago. You may remember.

I think a great way to fix this would be to
a) revoke/overturn/throw out the Citizens United case (which Congress coould do in a number of ways) and,

b) crucially, for the FCC or whoever, to impose limits on what telecommunication co's (TV-radio mostly) can charge for political ads. The co's charge whatever they want for other stuff, but political ads, make them virtually free. Force the congresscritters and the parties into sending out the message other ways. The internet would become a new advertising bonanza as would direct mailing lists etc. but the need for these huge sums to run a campaign - which is mostly tv-radio expenditures, year after year - would then drop off dramatically.

You haven't heard this because...?
You wouldn't hear such ideas on the tv or radio, now would you?


Another thing. Banks aren't lending, because people aren't borrowing. People aren't borrowing because they either lost equity and don't trust the banks, fear uncertainty of what will happen next, are shafted because of austerity, feel shafted because of lousy, too-trustful government policies toward the banks - I'm looking at you Obama - or simply don't see how they could ever pay back all these loans of 20+ years of borrowing in the heyday of virtually free credit. Even at next to zero% interest for the last few years. So banks don't make money on us and they go somewhere else, like wall street in unregulated hedge markets, derivative trading, the bond markets etc. This has been the last five year's domestic economy. Sluggish to no growth. Wall street has been fine, notice. Record highs til a couple weeks ago. And this is because wall street, what used to be the credit markets, the gold flame at the top of Reagan's shining city on the hill found about ten years ago they could make more money speculating on other people's money. After the recession and the bailouts and the prop ups and the quantitative easing, wall street saw it could make money not inus, not in credit cards to the old middle class majority, but in more of these speculative games that have yet to be regulated. And no sign of regulation in sight. Shit they've been trying to take away socsec and medicare. Almost succeeded last year and the year before that. Pete Peterson wants your money and FOX and Clinton and most of wall street wants you to give it to him and his wall street buddies so they can spend it on more speculative bubbles. Like the bond market, like the 'reemerging housing market', like health care futures, like student loans.

>not done yet<

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:13 pm 
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Yarnel, Arizona: 19 smoke jumpers were killed fighting the Yarnel Hill fire. No word yet as to why they needed to deploy they're fire shelters or why they failed. The fire shelters are only used as a last defense, as they only have a 50% survival record as it is. This is the largest loss of life in the forest/fire services history. My thought are with they're families. Terrible shame. :cry:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:33 am 
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Terrible tragedy... True heroes as well... RIP

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:57 am 
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heard there were as many as twelve killed and hundreds injured in riots in Egypt today against the new president Morsi.

wanted to make a longer post to address more of pedro2's need to know, but I don't have the time to do it justice.

But it's true. We have to be more sceptical with what we hear about these days.
pedro2 wrote:
By the way , the numbers I posted before are from this site . You figure out if it's a credible source or not. :wink:


http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/breakdown



These days, Edward Murrow and Walter Kronkite are dead, so we have to check our own sources. What I mean is that we have to double-check sources that come from places that we have yet to see if they're truthful or not. Or unbiased, however we decide to name that.
The source you gave above pedro, I went to. Found it overfull of data - a design feature to draw as many people in as possible or thru ads, sidebars, to help pay for the site. Fine, that's normal in some circles. But without trying to find your 'stats' in that mass of mess, I just went to the bottom of the page and clicked on the guy's name who runs it. Great, there's a little bio, he declares his own obeisance therein to Hayek, et al like any self-serving libertarian does these days. Ok, so he's a believer in a certain form of economic-beliefs that is currently in fashion. Nothing new or exceptional about that. So I scroll to the top again and click the 'About' button, what does it say? How do these people say what they are trying to do? Aha! On that page is a Disclaimer and Transparency blurb. Fantastic! I'd even call that honest and up front. So much so, in fact, I'll quote it in full:

"Disclaimer and Transparency
WE make no respresentation about the accuracy of the data presented in these websites. Nor does Christopher Chantrill represent himself to possess any formal qualifications to select, evaluate or present the information. Users are urged to check all data against the published data sources and to report any errors or inconsistencies."

After a chuckle, then I closed the window. And came back here, shaking my head, "They don't even represent themselves and what they post as being accurate or have any qualifications for what they do."

So that was NO help, but was a distraction I didn't need.

pedro2, you could have said, 'I don't know.'
And would have been more honest.
Unless you just didn't know they did not represent themselves as honest brokers of data, and in that case were just ignorant of the mendacity of their front page claims and thereby didn't know enough NOT TO REPEAT THEM.

You know why I encourage people to check and double-check the veracity of their sources now? I don't have time to wade thru bullshit and
Because I don't want to have to do the homework for someone, like you apparently, who is too lazy to do their own and especially if all they want is to argue and push somebody's buttons. Or feed false or misleading or more bias generating junk on the iternet.

You know what the internet calls someone who does that, right? And I'm sure you do care or you wouldn't keep coming back for more.

I was trying to show on the last page that the Congress doesn't know what the CIA does unless they tell them what they are doing and then usually only in subcommittee behind closed doors. And also, that how much their activities cost are not known unless you have a need to know. Including State Dept heads, members of Congress, etc. Did you know CIA was next door to the embassy in Benghazi? I didn't either til around the 12th of Sept last year, when everybody found out. When the witch-hunting diatribers picked up speed asking questions, demanding answers, when the smoke cleared, and UN Sec Rice said what she did, that there was a reaction to the tape by that inflammatory FL preacher, I knew we would never know. Because >doh< the CIA was next door. And, for future reference - I learned this during the Bush Admin - when Congresscritters and Admin officials say, 'I don't know' or something to that effect, it often actually means, 'I'm not paid to know, not my job, that's a different department.'

Honestly, I don't care that the spooks keep secrets. I don't want to know. I don't care that the NSA has secrets. I guess that's part of what they have to do.
I just can't see a way around them knowing about what they know AND them knowing everything about us AND us and Congress knowing really, absolutely nothing about them - even their existence. Without oversight, comes tyranny. I don't want to live in 1984 where everyone is suspect and people can't think their own thoughts. The compromise position is having that with government oversight and that's still not a good compromise. Is it?

I am trying to show the difference between truthfully open government - one I think we could all live with - and a closed -minded ineffective government which we all want to avoid. Not trying to distinguish between trolls and earnest people.

pedro2 wrote:
simplex II wrote:
Budgets are made, or not, by Congress.



Want to show me the most recent budget that was passed ?

:roll:

No, not show you, as anyone can find an accurate link of a double-checked source, but I can say that it was in April, 2009 when Dems controlled both houses of Congress. According to R Sen Bob Corker and he's right. In 2010 the R party had been raising holy hell about the debt limit and the deficit and vowed to never pass a health care act, which they did anyway and then as a party completely revolted and refused to vote on any more spending issues (which they have but not on anything close to a budget). Since then, there have only been the continuing resolutions. And that is the truth.

It would give the R side a lot more credibility if they could stop crying and whining about useless scandals and 'lack of Obama leadership' etc. and come up with a credible bill in the House on spending. But enough on the right think dreamy eyed Ryan is the go-to guy on the budget. And he has clearly shown he has nothing but dishonesty in his books and manipulative showmanship in demeanor. There are plenty other R's who have life experience in writing a credible state budget, for example, which Ryan can't pretend to have done.

And it really needs to be done. And it can be done and it's their job to do it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:29 am 
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WOW you are almost as smart as SB. Just look at what is going on, we have the Nixon admin times 10. I'll just say this about bengasi, why lie about what happened, and who gave the order to the response unit in tripoli to stand down. You so smart when was the last time a US ambassador was murdered?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:29 am 
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Where was all that concern for our men and women serving in embassies and consulates across the globe when all the other attacks and killings occurred?

Like in 2002 when the US Consulate in the Karachi, Pakistan, was attacked and 10 were killed?

Or in 2004 when the US embassy in Uzbekistan was attacked and two were killed and another nine injured?

How about in 2004, when the US Consulate in Saudi Arabia was stormed and 8 lost their lives?

There is more: In 2006, armed men attacked the US Embassy in Syria and one was murdered.

Then in 2007 a grenade was thrown at the US Embassy in Athens.

In 2008, the US Embassy in Serbia was set on fire.

In 2008, bombings in the US Embassy in Yemen killed 10.

Notice the dates, all before the Obama administration.


13 Benghazis Happened Under President Bush and Fox News Said Nothing
http://www.policymic.com/articles/40811 ... id-nothing


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:16 am 
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The question is where the fuck were you!!!!!! You fucking piece of shit, many were outraged, and still are but fuck tard liberal ass holes like you were hiding under your bed afraid someone might have a gun in the town where you live. So in the attacks that you posted how many us ambassadors died?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:12 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
The question is where the fuck were you!!!!!! You fucking piece of shit, many were outraged, and still are but fuck tard liberal ass holes like you were hiding under your bed afraid someone might have a gun in the town where you live. So in the attacks that you posted how many us ambassadors died?


Yeah! Don't you know that attacks only matter if important people are dead, like ambassadors? (Do I really need to insert the roll-eyes emoticon?)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:30 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
The question is where the fuck were you!!!!!! You fucking piece of shit, many were outraged, and still are but fuck tard liberal ass holes like you were hiding under your bed afraid someone might have a gun in the town where you live. So in the attacks that you posted how many us ambassadors died?

What's the matter BS? He answered your question.
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
You so smart when was the last time a US ambassador was murdered?

You just don't like his answers to your questions, so you lash out with outrageous statements that prove nothing. You also ask everybody else to "look it up" when you don't yourself. You just guesstamate a response that'll piss everyone off but make you feel superior.

It ain't workin' bub. :roll:

Now call me names, sweet little names. I'm a gun loving long haired liberal, living off yours and my tax dollars and proud of it! I earned it! And kudo's for bringing Dick Nixon back in the republican line up. That'll show 'em! :roll:

Nobody's right, when everybody's wrong!

I still love ya man! :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Bravo, you are completely chumped if you don't admit you are wrong on this one. All those embassies, all those deaths, the injured...... You have to admit it's pretty compelling evidence. There's no harm in being wrong sometimes, but intentionally overlooking obvious facts is just bad form.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:02 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
The question is where the fuck were you!!!!!! You fucking piece of shit, many were outraged, and still are but fuck tard liberal ass holes like you were hiding under your bed afraid someone might have a gun in the town where you live. So in the attacks that you posted how many us ambassadors died?


#8 from the article "13 Benghazis Happened Under President Bush and Fox News Said Nothing"
http://www.policymic.com/articles/40811 ... id-nothing
8. March 2, 2006: Third Attack on Karachi U.S. Consulate Killed U.S. Diplomat
U.S. Diplomat David Foy was specifically targeted in the third attack in as many years on the Karachi consulate compound. He was one of four people killed. The bomb occurred two days before President Bush was to visit Pakistan and also targeted the Marriot hotel in an upscale neighborhood of Karachi.

This was a planned and coordinated attack that nobody covered as more than a news item.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:44 pm 
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Big difference in those embassy assaults and Bengazzi.

They weren't lied about by the leader of this country.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:08 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
Big difference in those embassy assaults and Bengazzi.

They weren't lied about by the leader of this country.


Are you implying that Bush wouldn't have lied to us if he'd been asked? ARE YOU CRAZY? He's the biggest liar in presidential history.

And the point at hand, anyway, is that when those attacks took place, the republicans chose not to investigate their republican president in precisely the same circumstances as Bengazi. Wonder why?

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Last edited by Ronny's Noomies on Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:10 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
Big difference in those embassy assaults and Bengazzi.

They weren't lied about by the leader of this country.

McCain and Mitt,
Just a given you a fit.
But that's what they were aimin' at.
And no ones getting fat, except ol Barrack!

Is that sorta why your mad at the world Pedro? :? Someone lied, really? :? Transparent cover-ups? A boogie man behind every Bu...nevermind.

Fear & Loathing is what it sounds like bro'.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:08 pm 
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The lying from a politician doesn't bother me as much as living with guppies sucking all Obummer's shit spewed crap in , like you guys seem to have done , does.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:43 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
The lying from a politician doesn't bother me as much as living with guppies sucking all Obummer's shit spewed crap in , like you guys seem to have done , does.

Always question authority, don't get hung up on one side or the other. That's what they want. Constant infighting's like a monkey wrench in the system. Nothing gets done. That can't be good either, especially when both sides are only concerned with making the other look bad....for the next election cycle & so on. Vote and vote often. All those little elections in your home town are the basis for the one's at the top. Everyone's in on it too. Live by example. Volunteer, it makes you feel better. When it looks real bad feetslightup. Move if you don't like the prez, or vote someone else in. I don't think we're gonna rise up like in Egypt against Obama. We're not that polarized. All the negative jive just makes it seem like we are. Nobody's perfect, who would want to be? Trial and error is one of the spices of life. We learn from it. (hopefully)

Don't let it bring you down,
It's only castles burning......

I don't trust anyone in office, it's the nature of the beast :|

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:51 pm 
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A Russian Proton rocket went off course and slammed into the steppes of Kazakhstan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EJ5__1PPgNQ

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:52 pm 
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MAN IS ARRESTED FOR FILMING COPS. THEN THEY SHOOT HIS DOG

Hawthorne, CA is the town where the Beach Boys grew up on a street very like the one in this video.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:53 pm 
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MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
A Russian Proton rocket went off course and slammed into the steppes of Kazakhstan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EJ5__1PPgNQ

That was neat!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:14 pm 
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BUDDHIST MONKS PROTEST AGAINST TIME MAGAZINE IN CENTRAL RANGOON

ASSANGE MOCKS TIME MAGAZINE ON ABC NEWS WITH GEORGE STEPHONOPOLOUS, 15 min video

CONGRESS DOESN'T KNOW WHAT'S IN NSA SURVEILLANCE MANDATES, QUESTIONS CLAPPER FOR DETAILS

THE PROGRAM, sometimes even the nytimes gets a story, 8 min video

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:42 pm 
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simplex II wrote:
MAN IS ARRESTED FOR FILMING COPS. THEN THEY SHOOT HIS DOG

Hawthorne, CA is the town where the Beach Boys grew up on a street very like the one in this video.

The Gizmodo link has some cool tips for filming with the law around. Thanks. 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:41 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
The question is where the fuck were you!!!!!! You fucking piece of shit, many were outraged, and still are but fuck tard liberal ass holes like you were hiding under your bed afraid someone might have a gun in the town where you live. So in the attacks that you posted how many us ambassadors died?


#8 from the article "13 Benghazis Happened Under President Bush and Fox News Said Nothing"
http://www.policymic.com/articles/40811 ... id-nothing
8. March 2, 2006: Third Attack on Karachi U.S. Consulate Killed U.S. Diplomat
U.S. Diplomat David Foy was specifically targeted in the third attack in as many years on the Karachi consulate compound. He was one of four people killed. The bomb occurred two days before President Bush was to visit Pakistan and also targeted the Marriot hotel in an upscale neighborhood of Karachi.

This was a planned and coordinated attack that nobody covered as more than a news item.

Check again dum fuck when did an ambassador die?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:49 am 
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So it doesn't count unless an ambassador is killed???

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:53 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
The question is where the fuck were you!!!!!! You fucking piece of shit, many were outraged, and still are but fuck tard liberal ass holes like you were hiding under your bed afraid someone might have a gun in the town where you live. So in the attacks that you posted how many us ambassadors died?


#8 from the article "13 Benghazis Happened Under President Bush and Fox News Said Nothing"
http://www.policymic.com/articles/40811 ... id-nothing
8. March 2, 2006: Third Attack on Karachi U.S. Consulate Killed U.S. Diplomat
U.S. Diplomat David Foy was specifically targeted in the third attack in as many years on the Karachi consulate compound. He was one of four people killed. The bomb occurred two days before President Bush was to visit Pakistan and also targeted the Marriot hotel in an upscale neighborhood of Karachi.

This was a planned and coordinated attack that nobody covered as more than a news item.

Check again dum fuck when did an ambassador die?


320 people died in Bush's 13 Benghazi's and 3,000 died on his 9/11. That doesn't take into account the 5,000 plus troops who dies because of Bush's 935 lies that led to the Iraq war.



...and speaking of lies...
pedro2 wrote:
Big difference in those embassy assaults and Bengazzi.

They weren't lied about by the leader of this country.
Bush Administration Lied 935 Times About Iraq Before Invasion: Study

President cited as most frequent liar, with 259 false statements about weapons of mass destruction and more.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/



Where was the Fox News outrage for the 8,320 plus people who died because of Bush's 935 lies and 13 Benghazi's and 9/11 ineptitude?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:34 am 
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Better go spread your racial epithets to congress as they voted on the war, you really need to be banned for spreading all your crap, while you're at it where is you concern for the 1600 people that died yesterday from drunk drivers? I really think you need to go to russia and give support to your buddy the leaker, you both hate the usa and in your case you need psychiatric help. If you hadn't noticed this is now.

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