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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:27 pm 
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As a Canadian, all I can say is "Fuck, Ben Affleck". :evil:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Linda Ronstadt's diagnosis ends her career
Parkinson's has left her unable to sing


What a cruel twist of fate :P

http://social.entertainment.msn.com/music/blogs/reverb-blogpost.aspx?post=3f64ac27-a853-4289-bd74-905ae92e9e2c

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Damn shame too, I loved her voice! I was just asking a friend what happened to LR yesterday. I thought she was singing in Spanish and therefor not getting any airplay. Damn shame man! I always loved that RS spread of her in her pink nighty. What a beauty! Peter Asher got a winner there! :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Just listened to Blue Bayou on the link, beautiful, never heard it before...
...that so familiar voice.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:43 pm 
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tweedle-dee wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
The only thing "plain and simple" here is your IQ, shit-for-brains...


Hey you and I agreed not to communicate through this forum and it has been going fine for months now...


Wtf makes you think I was even directly communicating with you when I made that statement?! I was stating a FACT.

tweedle-dee wrote:
...why can't you be a man of your word, should we add honesty issues to your long list of personal failings...don't respond to me anymore, keep your fucking word...what a fucking dipshit loser wanna be bully... :smoke:


I'm always a man of my word, you mental midget. Pay attention. And while you're at it, grow a fucking brain. I always back up my shit with evidence, facts, logic and integrity, unlike you, you ultra-spineless-weasel-fail-driven-sack-of-donkey-shit. Take Obama's cock out of your mouth...

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:07 pm 
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This isn't Breaking News DB, it's just plain vengeance. Your better than a name calling little prick who thinks he knows every fucking thing aren't you? Besides, you got the biggest balls of us all, right bro'?
Ad Nausium-whatever that means. :mrgreen:
I love ya man!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:13 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
This isn't Breaking News DB, it's just plain vengeance. Your better than a name calling little prick who thinks he knows every fucking thing aren't you? Besides, you got the biggest balls of us all, right bro'?
Ad Nausium-whatever that means. :mrgreen:
I love ya man!


I never stated or implied I knew everything, K.K. I keep my mouth shut when people are talking about subjects I know NOTHING about (and I admit, there's PLENTY). But I assert my points when people are discussing topics I do know something about, with or without big balls. Unfortunately, tweedle-dee just had to continue spouting incredibly stupid statements. So I just had to shit all over him...for better or worse. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:35 pm 
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Mij wrote:
As a Canadian, all I can say is "Fuck, Ben Affleck". :evil:



There are a few actors who I simply can't stand, and he's one of them. I'm also not a fan of Val Kilmer, Nicholas Cage, Ashton Kutcher, any of the "Friends" cast...oh man. This would be a lengthy list.





oh...and btw, this just in....Dorko Dick is still an asshole.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:53 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Unfortunately, tweedle-dee just had to continue spouting incredibly stupid statements. So I just had to shit all over him...for better or worse. :mrgreen:

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
oh...and btw, this just in....Dorko Dick is still an asshole.

That's it in a nutshell, your both right on time. (cue/queue) Each following each others post, then adding a dig even though we're talkin' about something completely different. It's not really a cool thing to do as everyone is sick of it and both of you can share some blame. If it's just a blame game, blame it on me and let's get over this guys. There's a lot of Frank we haven't heard arrangements to yet. Let's just pay more attention to the music and not politics. Please guys, you're both excellent posters and I'm always amazed good or bad at the stuff y'all come up with. But enough. Thanks.
I love you guys man! The forum would be a lesser place if it missed either one of you. FTHZF*


*From the heart ZappaFreaks! :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:21 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
brainpang wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:

Iraq is old news. I agree with KK that he did indeed put agents in jeopardy.

The way some people are propping up Snowden and Manning is the same as calling Benedict Arnold a hero.


Sorry you feel that way. This is the deal breaker for me.



I don't believe there is a single country in the world that lacks high level espionage programs. I believe that these guys knowingly entered these programs with the intention to extort for personal gain. Because they got caught in the act, they say they leaked the information out of conscience. Somebody pays these guys to get information.


I'm as uncomfortable with the spying on citizens programs as the next guy and believe that the collection of information that ends up falling into the wrong hands is a dangerous game. On the one hand, if the programs serve to save lives, keep society from falling into complete anarchy, lawlessness and disarray, then I believe it's a good thing. If the programs are used for gaining wealth, power and greed, it's a bad thing.



Your first para is unfounded cynicism and the second seems more than a bit over-the-top regarding anarchy, lawlessness, disarray. The spy program by nature IS all about wealth, power and greed.

ps This topic IS rather distressing to me, thus my line in the sand, and so I really don't want to elaborate or hash it out. There are plenty of professional writers out there to do that. The abuse is already documented, and it's only just begun. I don't like the threat it has demonstrated on the 1st & 4th, which are joined at the hip.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:05 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Mij wrote:
As a Canadian, all I can say is "Fuck, Ben Affleck". :evil:


There are a few actors who I simply can't stand, and he's one of them. I'm also not a fan of Val Kilmer, Nicholas Cage, Ashton Kutcher, any of the "Friends" cast...oh man. This would be a lengthy list.

oh...and btw, this just in....Dorko Dick is still an asshole.


Those actors I don't mind. For Affleck I have a solid good reason: ARGO.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:05 am 
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I want Tim Curry. Not picky: I'll take anything! Though to be honest, there's only one Batman for me, and he's called Adam West.

355 casualties after poison gas attack in Syria.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:17 pm 
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:!: If this next Batman film is like the comic book and depicts an aging, haggard, Bruce Wayne one of my picks would be Kurt Russell. Did you see him in Deathproof? Damn good! :idea:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:27 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
tweedle-dee wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
The only thing "plain and simple" here is your IQ, shit-for-brains...


Hey you and I agreed not to communicate through this forum and it has been going fine for months now...


Wtf makes you think I was even directly communicating with you when I made that statement?! I was stating a FACT.

tweedle-dee wrote:
...why can't you be a man of your word, should we add honesty issues to your long list of personal failings...don't respond to me anymore, keep your fucking word...what a fucking dipshit loser wanna be bully... :smoke:


I'm always a man of my word, you mental midget. Pay attention. And while you're at it, grow a fucking brain. I always back up my shit with evidence, facts, logic and integrity, unlike you, you ultra-spineless-weasel-fail-driven-sack-of-donkey-shit. Take Obama's cock out of your mouth...



So there it is…you are unable to keep your word...it just proves your Bullyboyness, most people with deep seated psychological issues like you can’t help themselves as you can not.

I am sure further investigation will show you had the same problem with bed wetting well into pre adolescence, most damaged people who were raised as poorly as you, are truly frighten and act out as bully to attempt to form some sort of self esteem.

While I feel pity for the child you were disheveled and crying in your own urine and feces, waiting for someone who cared that never came. I can’t find it in me to ever give a chance to a liar, I only associate with men and women with backbone, that follow thru and keep their word even when it may hurt them.

Of course we know this concept of giving of ones self, of doing the right thing, of manning up if you will…is so foreign to you.

This is why children and small animals should never be left alone with you, their safety would be at risk and most likely they would be more at risk due to your unmitigated sense of self preservation that allows you to run in fear as you do now lashing out at everything and everyone.

Also your bully mind-set has been known to lead to harming children and animals on purpose, that is what can help you hide a lack of confidence, its that false sense of strength that sooths the hole where your soul should reside.

That lack of conscience has shined through and will not let me try any longer to help you out of your loathsome condition, sometimes a life is wasted.

This is why I will waste no more time on you, as much as your pathetic little existence wants a reaction from me…none will come…because I see who you are and that is a lost soul with no redemption value…like a used can or bottle that they will not take at the recycling center, its best just to through it in the trash and forget about it.


I’m dumping you Bully Boy…later days bitch… :smoke:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:54 pm 
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tweedle-dee wrote:
So there it is…you are unable to keep your word...it just proves your Bullyboyness, most people with deep seated psychological issues like you can’t help themselves as you can not.

I am sure further investigation will show you had the same problem with bed wetting well into pre adolescence, most damaged people who were raised as poorly as you, are truly frighten and act out as bully to attempt to form some sort of self esteem.

While I feel pity for the child you were disheveled and crying in your own urine and feces, waiting for someone who cared that never came. I can’t find it in me to ever give a chance to a liar, I only associate with men and women with backbone, that follow thru and keep their word even when it may hurt them.

Of course we know this concept of giving of ones self, of doing the right thing, of manning up if you will…is so foreign to you.

This is why children and small animals should never be left alone with you, their safety would be at risk and most likely they would be more at risk due to your unmitigated sense of self preservation that allows you to run in fear as you do now lashing out at everything and everyone.

Also your bully mind-set has been known to lead to harming children and animals on purpose, that is what can help you hide a lack of confidence, its that false sense of strength that sooths the hole where your soul should reside.

That lack of conscience has shined through and will not let me try any longer to help you out of your loathsome condition, sometimes a life is wasted.

This is why I will waste no more time on you, as much as your pathetic little existence wants a reaction from me…none will come…because I see who you are and that is a lost soul with no redemption value…like a used can or bottle that they will not take at the recycling center, its best just to through it in the trash and forget about it.


I’m dumping you Bully Boy…later days bitch… :smoke:


Did you even read what I wrote, you lying ball of turd droppings? My initial comment that you're responding to wasn't even necessarily a directly communicative statement that required response.

As for your expected diarrhoea-filled-psycho-babble-rant-that-you-found-in-a-cracker-jack-box above: your above claims about me have NO basis in reality - which is something you do NOT live in. I criticize things that deserve to be criticized. And I ALWAYS keep my word, you pseudo-intellectual-perpetual-masturbating-donkey-knob. I had an amazingly good childhood and was raised well. I also LOVE animals and have two cats. And don't even get me started on how YOU are the one who doesn't have a spine and how YOU are the one who can't keep your word or back up your bullshit claims about me to save your life...because that would take an eternity to explain. You are certifiably insane.

Now go continue sucking off Obama and delude yourself into believing that the NSB is forcing him to kill innocent citizens and children in Middle Eastern countries (whether through collateral damage or not), you BEYOND-STUPID-hypocritical-sorry-excuse-for-a-human-being-who-wouldn't-know-his-ass-from-a-hole-in-the-wall-if-it-came-up-and-shit-all-over-you...

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
tweedle-dee wrote:
So there it is…you are unable to keep your word...it just proves your Bullyboyness, most people with deep seated psychological issues like you can’t help themselves as you can not.

I am sure further investigation will show you had the same problem with bed wetting well into pre adolescence, most damaged people who were raised as poorly as you, are truly frighten and act out as bully to attempt to form some sort of self esteem.

While I feel pity for the child you were disheveled and crying in your own urine and feces, waiting for someone who cared that never came. I can’t find it in me to ever give a chance to a liar, I only associate with men and women with backbone, that follow thru and keep their word even when it may hurt them.

Of course we know this concept of giving of ones self, of doing the right thing, of manning up if you will…is so foreign to you.

This is why children and small animals should never be left alone with you, their safety would be at risk and most likely they would be more at risk due to your unmitigated sense of self preservation that allows you to run in fear as you do now lashing out at everything and everyone.

Also your bully mind-set has been known to lead to harming children and animals on purpose, that is what can help you hide a lack of confidence, its that false sense of strength that sooths the hole where your soul should reside.

That lack of conscience has shined through and will not let me try any longer to help you out of your loathsome condition, sometimes a life is wasted.

This is why I will waste no more time on you, as much as your pathetic little existence wants a reaction from me…none will come…because I see who you are and that is a lost soul with no redemption value…like a used can or bottle that they will not take at the recycling center, its best just to through it in the trash and forget about it.


I’m dumping you Bully Boy…later days bitch… :smoke:


Did you even read what I wrote, you lying ball of turd droppings? My initial comment that you're responding to wasn't even necessarily a directly communicative statement that required response.

As for your expected diarrhoea-filled-psycho-babble-rant-that-you-found-in-a-cracker-jack-box above: your above claims about me have NO basis in reality - which is something you do NOT live in. I criticize things that deserve to be criticized. And I ALWAYS keep my word, you pseudo-intellectual-perpetual-masturbating-donkey-knob. I had an amazingly good childhood and was raised well. I also LOVE animals and have two cats. And don't even get me started on how YOU are the one who doesn't have a spine and how YOU are the one who can't keep your word or back up your bullshit claims about me to save your life...because that would take an eternity to explain. You are certifiably insane.

Now go continue sucking off Obama and delude yourself into believing that the NSB is forcing him to kill innocent citizens and children in Middle Eastern countries (whether through collateral damage or not), you BEYOND-STUPID-hypocritical-sorry-excuse-for-a-human-being-who-wouldn't-know-his-ass-from-a-hole-in-the-wall-if-it-came-up-and-shit-all-over-you...


You used to annoy me. Now it's just fun to see you get so angry about such silly things.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:40 am 
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First, hello Mij...nice to see you.
_____________________________________________________


I hope this is of interest to some.

Tons of articles have been written on the leading anti-war sites such as, Counterpunch, Antiwar.com , Iraqi Veterans Against the War, Veterans for Peace, etc., etc., etc., and the common characteristic of the antiwar sites is that they are virtually all in support of Manning. We are not like all of the antiwar sites here at the zappaforum... just an observation.

With that said…Some comments on what was posted after my last post…

A soldier is sworn to first uphold the Constitution, he and any US citizen is supposedly guaranteed that the Constitution (including 6th Amendment), will be faithful to him.

This did not happen in the case of Manning. He is an embarrassment to the criminal elite. Our rulers have tortured Manning, and then denied his Constitutional right to a trial by a jury of his peers, (there was no reason for denying this).

The public has also been denied the right to witness the trial, possibly a reason there was no 6th Amendment for Bradley. No doubt Obama / the elite in power want embarrassing truths to be withheld from the general public. Damage control on the TV to shape the “general consensus.” [I believe this is also the reason bin Laden was killed after he was captured, rather than being brought up and tried on mass murder charges…better if America does not hear why bin Laden issued the fatwa. No, not defending him.]

Citizen Manning clearly exposed repeated, routine war crimes to his fellow citizens (you and me). I want to know when my government routinely covers up its crimes against humanity, done in the name of America. I am not afraid to know that, and I prefer it to force its way into the “news,” this forcing its way into the general consensus.

Similar to another time in which I lived which saw public dissent heightened by the leaking of the Pentagon Papers. The Anti-war community reacted similarly in support of those war crime leaks then as well.

It’s VERY interesting that Manning revealed war crimes, and the only one prosecuted was Manning...those who committed the crimes have been given a pass...not one of them prosecuted...and because that’s kept off the news, hardly anyone even notices.

From "35 Years for Manning: 35 Cheers for US Hypocrisy
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/22/ ... hypocrisy/

“The only person prosecuted for the crimes and abuses uncovered in the WikiLeaks’ releases is the person who exposed them. That alone proves the injustice of one more day in prison for Bradley Manning.”

- Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg.

In 2010, Bradley Manning revealed more than 700,000 truth documents to the anti-secrecy website Wikileaks – the largest leak in US military history, and no one was harmed by it.

(baddy's note: even Vice President Biden admitted that although the information was embarrassing, he said, "I don't think there was any substantive damage." ... furthermore, as expected from elitists and their cheerleaders...Obama was lying about trumped up "damages," "Reuters reported that other officials were admitting in private that they were exaggerating the damage that resulted from the leaks in order to bolster the legal efforts against WikiLeaks and Manning." )

Yet he has now been sentenced to 35 years in prison. For every document that Manning revealed, the US War on Terror has claimed at least one life. Yet no one in this country has been held accountable for it.

And getting to the crux of the biscuit…

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/02/ ... stitution/

How the Manning Trial Betrayed the Constitution

The fundamental structural defenses against tyranny – the separation of powers and federalism – are collapsing, while the democratic liberties enumerated in the Bill of Rights are eroding. These developments are the product of an elite political class consolidating the power necessary to impose the extreme economic inequality of a plutocratic tyranny in a time of a disintegrating civilization.

Those at the forefront of undermining the Constitution are acting in violation of their oaths as “executive and judicial officers … to support this Constitution.” Art, VI, cl 3. Bradley Manning, like every other member of the military subset of those officers, took this same oath to uphold the Constitution. He fulfilled that oath by disclosing war crimes. Those who have imprisoned and court-martialed him stand in violation of their constitutional oaths.

Ultimately, whether the Constitution will remain relevant as the United States continues its decline into a tyrannical plutocracy will depend upon whether the military will fulfill its oath to uphold the Constitution or will instead redefine its mission as the extra-constitutional guarantor of a new political order where might backed by money makes right.

The military under its civilian commander in chief denied Bradley Manning his constitutional right to a jury trial under the Sixth Amendment to try charges of whistle-blowing that took place off the battle-field, ... His interest as a citizen to share his knowledge with other citizens about the crimes being committed in their name was inherently civilian in nature, not military.

This denial of Bradley Manning’s rights also deprived “we the people” of our constitutional rights to witness a “public trial” as guaranteed by the Sixth Amendment.

Attorney General Eric Holder tried to put a happy face on a former democracy seen by the world as slipping into a totalitarian tyranny when recently seeking, not to legally extradite Edward Snowden, but rather to have him “returned” from Moscow like a wayward piece of imperial baggage, like a “subject” of a despotic state rather than a citizen of a republic. Holder not only made the embarrassingly necessary formal promise not to kill or torture Snowden, but also stated the basic ground rules that Snowden would be tried in an Article III “civilian court … supervised by a United States District Judge” with “all the protections that United States law provides.” ...

There is no valid reason under the U.S. Constitution why Bradley Manning, whose conduct served the same patriotic goals as Edward Snowden, should not be entitled to the same constitutional rights that Eric Holder, with unearned innocence, holds out to Snowden as inducement for Russia to deny Snowden asylum. That Bradley Manning chose a career of service to his country in the armed forces, honored his oath to support the Constitution, but did not – or did not have the opportunity to – seek timely refuge in a country just beyond the reach of reliable imperial coercion constitutes no justification for denying Manning constitutionally guaranteed rights.

...in the leading case on the constitutional authority of Congress to permit the military to conduct constitution-free court-martials, Toth v Quarles, 350 U.S. 11, 21-22 (1955), the Supreme Court held that “the constitutional grant of power to Congress to regulate the armed forces … itself does not empower Congress to deprive people of trials under Bill of Rights safeguards, and we are not willing to hold that power to circumvent those safeguards should be inferred through the Necessary and Proper Clause.” The Court goes on to explain: “There are dangers lurking in military trials which were sought to be avoided by the Bill of Rights and Article III of our Constitution. Free countries of the world have tried to restrict military tribunals to the narrowest jurisdiction deemed absolutely essential to maintaining discipline among troops in active servi

Bradley Manning’s court-martial betrays the military’s universal oath to support the Constitution. It ignores the Bill of Rights guarantee of a jury trial in cases...

By the express terms of the Constitution Bradley Manning is entitled to a full Sixth Amendment jury trial. The military is in violation of its oath to uphold the Constitution until it releases Bradley Manning to civilian authorities for purposes of providing him his constitutional right to a trial by a jury of his peers....

Under the Constitution it is the people, through the constitutional process of a civilian jury trial, not the military apparatus, who must be the judge of whether Manning’s selfless act of service to the people is deserving of punishment. So long as the military continues to hold Manning they are denying him the speedy and civilian trial that the Constitution requires.

________________________________________________

In conclusion, another article, another thought: Obama failed to break the spirit of Bradley Manning...

An Open Letter to President Obama

You Failed to Break the Spirit of Bradley Manning

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/22/ ... y-manning/
As commander in chief, you’ve been responsible for the treatment of the most high-profile whistleblower in the history of the U.S. armed forces. Under your command, the United States military tried — and failed — to crush the spirit of Bradley Manning.

Your failure became evident after the sentencing on Wednesday, when a statement from Bradley Manning was read aloud to the world. The statement began:

“The decisions that I made in 2010 were made out of a concern for my country and the world that we live in. Since the tragic events of 9/11, our country has been at war. We’ve been at war with an enemy that chooses not to meet us on any traditional battlefield, and due to this fact we’ve had to alter our methods of combating the risks posed to us and our way of life. I initially agreed with these methods and chose to volunteer to help defend my country.

Bradley Manning’s statement after sentencing on Wednesday said:

“It was not until I was in Iraq and reading secret military reports on a daily basis that I started to question the morality of what we were doing. It was at this time I realized that (in) our efforts to meet the risk posed to us by the enemy, we have forgotten our humanity. We consciously elected to devalue human life both in Iraq and Afghanistan. When we engaged those that we perceived were the enemy, we sometimes killed innocent civilians. Whenever we killed innocent civilians, instead of accepting responsibility for our conduct, we elected to hide behind the veil of national security and classified information in order to avoid any public accountability.”

Public accountability is essential to democracy. We can’t have meaningful “consent of the governed” without informed consent. We can’t have moral responsibility without challenging official hypocrisies and atrocities.

After being sentenced to many years in prison, Manning conveyed to the American public an acute understanding of our present historic moment:

“In our zeal to kill the enemy, we internally debated the definition of torture. We held individuals at Guantanamo for years without due process. We inexplicably turned a blind eye to torture and executions by the Iraqi government. And we stomached countless other acts in the name of our war on terror.

“Patriotism is often the cry extolled when morally questionable acts are advocated by those in power. When these cries of patriotism drown out any logically based dissension, it is usually the American soldier that is given the order to carry out some ill-conceived mission.”

Clearly, Mr. President, you have sought to make an example of Bradley Manning with categorical condemnation and harsh punishment. You seem not to grasp that he has indeed become an example — an inspiring example of stellar courage and idealism, which millions of Americans now want to emulate.

From the White House, we continue to get puffed-up sugar-coated versions of history, past and present. In sharp contrast, Bradley Manning offers profound insights in his post-sentencing statement:
“Our nation has had similar dark moments for the virtues of democracy — the Trail of Tears, the Dred Scott decision, McCarthyism, and the Japanese-American internment camps — to mention a few. I am confident that many of the actions since 9/11 will one day be viewed in a similar light. As the late Howard Zinn once said, ‘There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.’”

__________________________________

Notes in the margin…

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/23/ ... -happened/

We compete against a gigantic corporate owned tsunami of purposeful idiocy, by an army of high paid spokes idiots on all the airwaves. TV, in particular, is a brainwashing machine that would even make Joseph Goebbels blush.

The owners do not mind that it’s a world wide race to the bottom regarding hours, wages and safety. There has been no time in America when the left had a seat at the table of power. The best years, for most people, were the mid 1960s to mid 1970s, anti-Vietnam War to No Nukes er

How can we, as people, and groups, like Move On, simply give Obama a free pass on abuses that we would be livid over had Bush Junior done them? Rightly so. They are the very same abuses. Often Obama has made them worse. We have a government now completely out of control.

And…

Here also are some comments from The Ron Paul Channel.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:28 am 
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This so-called "left" defense of Chelsea Manning is fine, but it still gives credence to the official lies, and presents them as truth, probably because these sort of articles want mainstream acceptance, so that the power elite cannot easily dismiss them.

In other words, it goes along to get along.

Osama bin Laden was not captured or killed. Some other guy was murdered, and this was used as a ploy for political gain. There is zero evidence that bin Laden was killed. There's plenty of evidence suggesting that he died in 2002 of kidney failure. Bin Laden was used as an "Emmanuel Goldstein" character, designed as a focal point for popular hatred and blame. If you don't know who Emmanuel Goldstein is, go back to high school and read 1984 .

Here's a good link describing efforts to fake a bin Laden death "victory"

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... ladens.php

Since 9/11/2001 war we have been at war with an enemy...or so the story goes. We made the enemy because we needed one, and we made the 9/11 event happen because how else does a war get started? This was all by design and by our own doing. Until we understand that, and have the testicles to stand up and say it, all we are doing is participating in the great circus of distraction, as if phony "left-right" debates were actually meaningful courses toward change.

Fake terror has been used for centuries to fool population into going to war for the greedy interests of the elite.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... /index.php

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... _index.php

There is no doubt in my mind, and in the minds of millions of others, that the attack on 9/11/2001 was a false flag designed to get us into a war over in Oil Land so that we could secure "our interests".

www.ae911truth.org

Chelsea Manning is just another distraction.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:19 am 
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I'm not sure about a lot of the above, not because I don't think it's plausible but because it would represent a level of "wicked" efficiency on the part of administrations past and present that I think they just don't have. That is not to say it isn't possible.

However, I do agree that Bin Laden's role and importance has been and still is being exaggerated. His major participation would have seemed to be financial and not on the planning side. In fact, the whole point about Al Qaeda would seem to be that it isn't an "organization" in the strict sense of the word at all. Whether he died years ago or whether he was shot is only important on a symbolic level. Mind you, that can be pretty important.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:37 am 
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I wish I had left the sentence out about bin Laden as it was not important to the Manning sentencing topic I posted, I was hoping to get some opinions about the main topic...

...but while we're on this track, I have a question for you A_rope_leash...

We know bin Laden hated the us for it's many incursions, and we know that he had the ability to release multiple videos.

It would make the US look like a big fool if we announced we killed him if he were to release another video showing he was still alive...I would think he would be chomping at the bit for such a golden opportunity to make the US look stupid, (and I think the US may be reluctant to say we killed him if all he needed to do was release another video to prove us liars to the world).

I'm curious, why do you think bin Laden has not released another video to prove our claim about killing him wrong, (and to insure the rest of his followers knew he was still here)?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:53 am 
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"For conspiracy theorists, truth is less about fact and more about what they want to believe." ~ Xenocrates


Type 1: Appeal to Fear Theories
These are designed to invoke fear and distrust. They serve no other purpose other than to play upon fears that may either be born of inherent prejudice or genuine fear to provoke a desired response. They are usually based on observations that are now obsolete. These types of theories are particularly dangerous because they can incite mass hysteria and panic.

Type 2: Fear Management Theories
These are conspiracy theories that are designed to reduce the severity of a (usually) tragic event by making it out to be something more deliberate, accidental, diabolical and thus familiar instead of being one that is more random, spontaneous, unpredictable, inexplicable and thus, more frightening. Fear management theories always seek to blame an identifiable, familiar, usually powerful organisation that relies on secrecy. This can range anywhere from the Free Masons to the US Government and may even include older organisations that no longer exist.

Type 3: Appeal to Ignorance Theories
These are designed to exploit what is generally unknown by the wider public about something that requires a very deep investment of technical knowledge. They are usually concocted about ideas and events that are heavily based on technology or science. Appeal to ignorance theories are really fear management theories that empower their target by filling the void of their ignorance with faux knowledge that would conveniently pander to their pre-existing bias.

Appeal to Ignorance theories are usually purported by non-technical individuals who have no training or experience in the field, but can be compelling in the way they present their fallacious arguments. Because they usually sound like they know what they're talking about, most of the proponents of appeal to ignorance conspiracy theories are often taken seriously.

Excellent article - http://xenlogic.blogspot.com/2012/04/de ... .html#more


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:35 am 
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baddy wrote:


I'm curious, why do you think bin Laden has not released another video to prove our claim about killing him wrong, (and to insure the rest of his followers knew he was still here)?


No offence meant to anyone and sorry for answering, Rope. But I think his answer is that Bin Laden was already dead - from kidney failure in 2002. At least, that's what I understood from the post above...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:40 am 
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That's pretty much what I thought until the US came with the video about his demise: at the time of the 9/11 attacks he was in need of dialysis. That, combined with the fact he couldn't be found, just seemed logical.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:43 am 
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If anyone looked at the links I posted, it would help them explain what I am saying. Of course, all information is suspect, so it depends on whom is trusted. I do not trust corporate media in America, as they are under no obligation whatsoever to present the truth or all of the facts. They are the Slime.

bin Laden was said to be in need of a kidney dialysis machine back in 2001. People that need dialysis don't live long, especially if they live in caves.

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article/ ... -death.htm

Benazir Bhutto said that bin Laden was dead before she was assasinated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MBTd5QNGB0

Fox News reported bin Laden's death in 2001...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2001/12/26 ... eady-dead/

This is supposedly a bin Laden obituary from and Egyptian newspaper published in 2001...

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/ar ... read=58144

Some say bin Laden was CIA asset Tim Osman...

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... n_cia.html


Now you can call me and all these other people crazy nutcases and go back to the breast of mother television who will reassure you...or you can wake up an realize it's all a lie.

But, Osama bin Laden doesn't really matter. The real smoking gun is the towers. It defies all sense of common physics that the towers would unzip themselves in less than thirty seconds, and I do not care what bogus explanations have been offered up by government-paid scientists.

So...just think for a minute. If what I am saying is true, then all this "debate" is over bullshit. Arguments are being made with incorrect information, and we are fighting each other instead of the Slime.

Empire makes it's own reality. That's what you are seeing on television, and hearing on the radio, or even watching at the theater. Anyone that says the Slime is not telling the whole truth gets defamed by the Slime, and dumfucks all over the world believe the Slime instead of thinking for themselves. Why on Earth would you take as fact information filtered through a few corporations that really don't give a shit about telling you the truth? Why...especially when you can see with your own eyes that the towers were blown to bits by explosives?

I've said it all before. Please take some time and really look at the links I've posted before stepping back in to dismiss it. If you want to believe the Slime, that's you. It isn't me...but haven't folks like me been telling you all that the NSA has been spying on everyone years before the truth came out? Maybe there's a lot of shit we don't know the truth about...hmmmm?

So why argue, and for Earth's sake, why be abusive or get offended?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Ahh, already dead...I supposed that's plausible...that would explain the part about the ocean too.

Tkx

Agree on the slime...and so often it's what's missing. I prefer the Internet...then you can see what's missing.


Such a shame we let it happen.

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