Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:32 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9273 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 333, 334 ... 371  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 4724
Location: in deepest, darkest Germany
Disco Boy wrote:


I know damn well that a conservative does not equal socialist and neither does liberal. After all, I was the one who initially pointed that out, especially as an example of your manipulative ways.


No, you said I was wrong to call the centre right parties of Spain, Greece and Cyprus conservatives (in fact, I described them as "Conservatives"), claiming that they were centre right and thus liberal and conservative. You then went on to suggest they were socialist, seemingly because they had the word centre as part of their name. You then listed two centre-right international organizations of which the Spanish PP is a member, apparently implying that they thus were comparable with the democrats in the US even though these are self described conservative/centre right organizations.
You then went on to indicate that centre-right parties were at least partly socialist (indicating, btw that the Republicans had apparently joined an international organization that was partly socialist), and ending up by attempting to establish an equivalency between the term "liberal" and "socialist".

Along the way, you repeatedly accused me of being a "manipulative shithead", claimed I was "backpedalling", called me a "weasel", referred to me and others as "assholes", said that you had "owned" me and then took umbrage when somebody suggested you were engaging in "ad hominems" as you had stated your case first and then insulted people. All the time you were replying to posts made by somebody who you proudly stated you had put on "ignore". If that doesn't show a lack of self-awareness, I don't know what does. And you wonder why increasingly few people are willing to engage in "healthy debate" with you...

You now write:
Disco Boy wrote:
If you're referring to the term conservative, you're full of shit. But if you're referring to the term liberal, then it would be up for debate.


Quite obviously I was referring to the term liberal as being particularly ambiguous. However both the Spanish PP and the Cypriots describe their parties as Conservative/Centre Right.

As to your claim that by the "vast bulk" of EU countries are Socialist, the following would currently appear to be the actual case. BTW, I'm doing you favour with Hungary as they do actually call themselves "Conservatives", but they are so off the wall most self-respecting Conservatives wouldn't be seen dead with them.


Austria: SPÖ (Social Democrats)/PP (Conservative Centre Right)
Belgium: Socialists
Bulgaria: Acting government consists of members of CEDB (Conservative Centre Right)
Croatia: Social Democrats/Liberal Democrats (Social Liberal)/IDS (Social Liberal)
Cyprus: Democratic Rally (Conservative Centre Right)
Czech Republic: Up until October 2013 ODS (Conservative Centre Right)/KDU (Conservative Centre Right). Current coalition not yet decided. Probably Socialist/Communist?
Denmark: Social Democrats
Estonia: Rep (Economic Liberal)
Finland NCP (Conservative Centre Right/Social Democrats/Left Alliance (Socialists)/Greens (Centre Left)/SPP (Social Liberal)/Christian Democrats (Centre Right)
France: Socialists
Germany: At present CDU/CSU/FDP (Two Centre Right Parties + Free Market Liberals). From December probably CDU/CSU/SPD (Social Democrats)
Greece: New Democracy (Conservative Centre Right)
Holland: VVD (Economic Liberal )/Labour (Social Democrats)
Hungary: KDNP (Extreme Right)
Ireland: Fine Gael (Conservative Centre Right)/Labour (Social Democrats)
Italy. Democratic Party (Centre Left)/People Of Freedom (Centre Right)/Civic Choice (Centre)
Latvia: New Era, (Conservative Centre Right) People's Party (Centre Right), Union of Greens and Peasants (Centre), For Fatherland and Freedom/LNNK, (Extreme Right) and Civic Union (Extreme Right).
Lithuania: Social Democrats
Luxembourg: CSV (Conservative Centre Right)/LSAP (Socialists)
Malta. Labour (Socialists)
Poland: CO (Conservative Centre Right)/Polish People’s Party (Centre Right)
Portugal: Social Democrats
Rumania: Social Democrats/National Liberals (Economic Liberals)/Conservatives
Slovakia: Social Democrats
Slovenia: PS (Social Democrats)
Sweden: Moderate Party (Conservative Centre Right )
Spain: PP (Conservative Centre Right)
UK: Conservatives (Centre Right)/Liberal Democrats (Social Liberal)

At present therefore:
Thirteen governments in the EU are led by Conservative, centre right leaders
Twelve by Socialists/Social Democrats
Two by Economic Liberals leaders
One by an Extreme Right Wing leader

Conservative Centre Right Parties are represented in 16 cabinets.
Socialist/Social Democratic Parties are represented in 16 cabinets.

_________________
"I have learned from my mistakes, and I am sure I can repeat them exactly."


Last edited by Caputh on Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9326
Location: EINDHOVEN
Deuce: it's unfortunately true. Probably a good sense of record company bobos (I like using the word "bobo" for executive considering Bobo is the name of a Dutch blue bunny kiddie comic character I cherished as a muppet). How many ugly women do you see in the charts? Literally every female up there presents herself as sex object, or else she won't sell enough and get no support.

Noomies: the kid slipped and fell while walking down the street, while there was road maintenance going on.

Not much news here. Netherlands is quiet as ever on Sunday.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
Posts: 1341
Location: south midlands, UK
You are right BBP, for the 'pop' industry. Same for boys too though - all pretty boys with pubescent 6 packs. But who cares? You can be ugly as sin in rock n roll, but it helps if you have a great shirt.
BTW - news: UK banker caught dealing in crystal meth soon after losing his bank £700million.... :x

_________________
and I know, I think
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9326
Location: EINDHOVEN
I do my best to think of ugly successful women in music, but all the ones I can think of that are respected for their musical abilities, An Pierlé, Fay Lovski, Janine Jansen, Caro Emerald, Wende Sneijders, kate bush, kd Lang... they're all pretty and were selling themselves as sex symbol at some point in their career.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:11 am
Posts: 3469
I don't believe that applies to Carol King, or Diana Krall

_________________
Confusion will be my epitaph


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9326
Location: EINDHOVEN
Carole King - Love Makes The World: she sports a cleavage all the way to her belly button. Also Living Room Tour and Tapestry appear to sell more than music. Diana Krall posted in corsets and stockings on one of her album covers. First Google addition the site comes up with is "Diana Krall hot".

Try again. Go ahead. Just check Google Images first.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 19274
Location: Somewhere in time
If you look good or hot, why should that work against you..don't we all look in the mirror when we get ready to go out... :smoke:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
Posts: 1341
Location: south midlands, UK
Carly Simon is (was) half ugly. The top half of her head being fine, the lower half being rather oversized. Warren Beatty probably did the right thing by moving her on, thus facilitating the writing of her uberconquering tune 'you is so vain'.
TT

_________________
and I know, I think
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 13138
Location: Home of The Mondavi Center.
deuce wrote:
Carly Simon is (was) half ugly. The top half of her head being fine, the lower half being rather oversized. Warren Beatty probably did the right thing by moving her on, thus facilitating the writing of her uberconquering tune 'you is so vain'.
TT

There was a rumor it was Jagger, he sings on the "YSV" record. I always though she was talking about David Crosby at the time. I also thought Warren came after her (what a gentlemen) big hit Your So Vain was out.

_________________
I'm getting larger as I walk away.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:45 pm
Posts: 3409
Location: St-Hyacinthe, Québec, Canada
Céline Dion is definitively ugly ! :!: :!: :!:

_________________
No doubt, we're doomed !


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2204
Disco Boy wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Actually, DB is a Twinkie and he thinks assholes are far superior to any other snack cake.

I get the feeling DB lives off a trust fund and has never had to venture into the real world.


Yet another ad hominem.... :roll:

Yet another rolling-eyes smiley.

How's yer trust fund, genius?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:41 pm
Posts: 14807
Mij wrote:
Céline Dion is definitively ugly ! :!: :!: :!:


Celine Dion walks into a bar. "Why the long face?" asks the bartender.

But seriously, I always thought it was a bit creepy that the guy who knew her since she was 12 or 13 married her.

_________________
One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9326
Location: EINDHOVEN
It's not about whether they're ugly or not... it's about whether or not they've been selling themselves as a sex symbol. Judging the Celine Dion photos I find she's definitely tried that sales technique. So did Barbra Streisand. And Carly: check her out on the Rolling Stone cover she's on.

Aaaaaanyway... Scientists may have found an antidote for botulism. Very happy about that! Now we can protect the duckies. :)

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
Posts: 1341
Location: south midlands, UK
I dont think that picture of Carly is portraying her as a sex object though. She's got a fair bit of clothing on. There are women / girls in bikinis at the pool / beach, and generally, not al lot of notice is taken. I guess some women like feeling 'free'.
Anyway, ....
Parents arrested after boy found handcuffed with dead chicken around his neck
The foster parents of an 11-year-old boy have been arrested after the child was found handcuffed to their porch with a dead chicken around his neck.

_________________
and I know, I think
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2204
Emma is all about the music
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:29 pm
Posts: 174
"If you've had health insurance and you think your health policy doesn't cover things you "don't need" right now… you are not very bright."

_________________
"... gonna jump outta the subcommittee and get ya!"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 13138
Location: Home of The Mondavi Center.
deuce wrote:
I dont think that picture of Carly is portraying her as a sex object though. She's got a fair bit of clothing on. There are women / girls in bikinis at the pool / beach, and generally, not al lot of notice is taken. I guess some women like feeling 'free'.
Anyway, ....
Parents arrested after boy found handcuffed with dead chicken around his neck
The foster parents of an 11-year-old boy have been arrested after the child was found handcuffed to their porch with a dead chicken around his neck.

Sick SOB's. There was 3 or 4 other kids that were adopted at that residence too and one of the parents is a social worker. Maybe we should attach a dead kid to her neck and tie her to the porch...bad social worker/parent/human being! :evil:

_________________
I'm getting larger as I walk away.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
Posts: 1341
Location: south midlands, UK
Well, I've not heard (and I am unlikely to hear) the bunton album, so I won't diss it.
Again, she has lots of clothes on. Her eyes are most definitely from the ring or something though. Also, Paris Hiltons record was rated a lot higher than zero (not by me - never listened to it).
I think if a record exec had come up to me and said 'Tone, a 1000 copies of your single will sit in your loft for 20+ years, but if you expose your buttocks for one picture, they'll all sell', I'd have a lot more room in my loft now.
Anyways,
Two people die in Illinois storms...
Positive thoughts to all affected...

_________________
and I know, I think
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9326
Location: EINDHOVEN
'Course a person doesn't need to bare it all to be selling her body. She's in a pin-up pose for the love of Frank!
I think one reason for the worries female musicians is, they don't stand a chance in the music industry if they don't exactly fit in a size 10. Caro Emerald is fairly large and her debut album was refused by every record company she tried, until she decided to found her own. Her record went on to be one of the best-selling in Dutch history, with the highest number of weeks in the #1 position (a record she sniped from Michael Jackson's Thriller, and Jacko had to die in order to get that record.) The story is at least as upbeat as her music. On the other hand, it shows the position mainstream music is in: taken hostage by record companies who play "safe".

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
Posts: 1341
Location: south midlands, UK
I've got no problem with pin-up poses, if its all 'natural'. Even Miley Cyrus's recent exploits are understandable - if its some sort of 'rebellion' against achy breaky heart and the inane tosh disney made her sing, which I think it is. It would become more of an issue if my kids want to emulate her performances (which they dont, 'cos they've got a bit of common sense). But I expect that if anyone needs to jerk off, they have a billion websites offering what they want before resorting to pics of clothed, posing wannabes. I'm sure Frank would defend exhibitionsim rather than censoring it. But, I accept there is a line somewhere.
TT
Anyways...
One of Britain's wealthiest men has pledged to do "whatever it takes" to ensure Nigel Farage's UK Independence Party triumphs in next year's elections to the European Parliament. Eurosceptic businessman Paul Sykes, a former Conservative Party backer, is promising to bankroll Ukip's campaign in an election in which it is already expected to do well.

_________________
and I know, I think
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2204
Just don't ask me to explain this...
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:22 am
Posts: 913
Image


I never thought Laura Nyro ever passed herself off as sexy.

With her voice and song writing abilities , she didn't have to in order to be loved .

Hell , Stevie Wonder could see that. :wink:

8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 3528
Location: Vancouver, BC
Manipulative Shithead wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
I know damn well that a conservative does not equal socialist and neither does liberal. After all, I was the one who initially pointed that out, especially as an example of your manipulative ways.


No, you said I was wrong to call the centre right parties of Spain, Greece and Cyprus conservatives (in fact, I described them as "Conservatives"), claiming that they were centre right and thus liberal and conservative. You then went on to suggest they were socialist, seemingly because they had the word centre as part of their name. You then listed two centre-right international organizations of which the Spanish PP is a member, apparently implying that they thus were comparable with the democrats in the US even though these are self described conservative/centre right organizations.
You then went on to indicate that centre-right parties were at least partly socialist (indicating, btw that the Republicans had apparently joined an international organization that was partly socialist), and ending up by attempting to establish an equivalency between the term "liberal" and "socialist".


WTF?! You initially claimed the political parties in 3 of the 4 countries I listed were conservative. But you mentioned NOTHING about them being centre-right (which is essentially a liberal or socialist/right position) - which is something I had to bring to everyone's attention because that's a SIGNIFICANT difference from what you initially stated.

Manipulative Shithead wrote:
Along the way, you repeatedly accused me of being a "manipulative shithead", claimed I was "backpedalling", called me a "weasel", referred to me and others as "assholes", said that you had "owned" me and then took umbrage when somebody suggested you were engaging in "ad hominems" as you had stated your case first and then insulted people. All the time you were replying to posts made by somebody who you proudly stated you had put on "ignore". If that doesn't show a lack of self-awareness, I don't know what does. And you wonder why increasingly few people are willing to engage in "healthy debate" with you...


That's because you ARE a manipulative shithead - you even admitted that yourself. And you DID backpedal and/or weasel out (just like you are now). And btw, as far as I'm concerned, you and several other people who did a piss poor job at challenging my points, DESERVED those particular insults.

The reason why certain people aren't willing to engage in healthy debate with me has nothing to do with what you think is my apparent lack of self-awareness. It primarily has to do with them not being able to construct a convincing argument to the contrary. And that's probably because they know I'm correct.

Manipulative Shithead wrote:
You now write:
If you're referring to the term conservative, you're full of shit. But if you're referring to the term liberal, then it would be up for debate.

Quite obviously I was referring to the term liberal as being particularly ambiguous. However both the Spanish PP and the Cypriots describe their parties as Conservative/Centre Right.

As to your claim that by the "vast bulk" of EU countries are Socialist, the following would currently appear to be the actual case. BTW, I'm doing you favour with Hungary as they do actually call themselves "Conservatives", but they are so off the wall most self-respecting Conservatives wouldn't be seen dead with them.


Austria: SPÖ (Social Democrats)/PP (Conservative Centre Right)
Belgium: Socialists
Bulgaria: Acting government consists of members of CEDB (Conservative Centre Right)
Croatia: Social Democrats/Liberal Democrats (Social Liberal)/IDS (Social Liberal)
Cyprus: Democratic Rally (Conservative Centre Right)
Czech Republic: Up until October 2013 ODS (Conservative Centre Right)/KDU (Conservative Centre Right). Current coalition not yet decided. Probably Socialist/Communist?
Denmark: Social Democrats
Estonia: Rep (Economic Liberal)
Finland NCP (Conservative Centre Right/Social Democrats/Left Alliance (Socialists)/Greens (Centre Left)/SPP (Social Liberal)/Christian Democrats (Centre Right)
France: Socialists
Germany: At present CDU/CSU/FDP (Two Centre Right Parties + Free Market Liberals). From December probably CDU/CSU/SPD (Social Democrats)
Greece: New Democracy (Conservative Centre Right)
Holland: VVD (Economic Liberal )/Labour (Social Democrats)
Hungary: KDNP (Extreme Right)
Ireland: Fine Gael (Conservative Centre Right)/Labour (Social Democrats)
Italy. Democratic Party (Centre Left)/People Of Freedom (Centre Right)/Civic Choice (Centre)
Latvia: New Era, (Conservative Centre Right) People's Party (Centre Right), Union of Greens and Peasants (Centre), For Fatherland and Freedom/LNNK, (Extreme Right) and Civic Union (Extreme Right).
Lithuania: Social Democrats
Luxembourg: CSV (Conservative Centre Right)/LSAP (Socialists)
Malta. Labour (Socialists)
Poland: CO (Conservative Centre Right)/Polish People’s Party (Centre Right)
Portugal: Social Democrats
Rumania: Social Democrats/National Liberals (Economic Liberals)/Conservatives
Slovakia: Social Democrats
Slovenia: PS (Social Democrats)
Sweden: Moderate Party (Conservative Centre Right )
Spain: PP (Conservative Centre Right)
UK: Conservatives (Centre Right)/Liberal Democrats (Social Liberal)

At present therefore:
Thirteen governments in the EU are led by Conservative, centre right leaders
Twelve by Socialists/Social Democrats
Two by Economic Liberals leaders
One by an Extreme Right Wing leader

Conservative Centre Right Parties are represented in 16 cabinets.
Socialist/Social Democratic Parties are represented in 16 cabinets.


Uh, since centre-right does NOT mean fully conservative, as I've already explained, your above score card should NOT read 16 /16. It would be more along the lines of 31 (centre-right = socialist or liberal / conservative) / 1 (far right conservative).

Thanks for owning yourself...

downer mydnyte wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Actually, DB is a Twinkie and he thinks assholes are far superior to any other snack cake.

I get the feeling DB lives off a trust fund and has never had to venture into the real world.


Yet another ad hominem.... :roll:

Yet another rolling-eyes smiley.

How's yer trust fund, genius?


Yet another ad hominem.

Let me know when you've got the balls to construct an actual convincing argument to the contrary regarding ANY topic... :roll:

_________________
:53 - :57...

"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 13138
Location: Home of The Mondavi Center.
pedro2 wrote:
Image


I never thought Laura Nyro ever passed herself off as sexy.

With her voice and song writing abilities , she didn't have to in order to be loved .

Hell , Stevie Wonder could see that. :wink:

8)

Patti Smith never passed herself off as sexy...ever! Nor Janis Ian, Joan Baez or Big Mama Thornton. I never remember Ella Fitzgerald sellin' it either. All had "pop" hits in their time too. Even Ray Charles can see that. 8) < blind pumpkin :mrgreen:

_________________
I'm getting larger as I walk away.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9326
Location: EINDHOVEN
That was "before" the hostage. And the problem is not necessarily about the pin-up (I would be though, I hate that kind of marketing ploys that go for the lowest common denominator. For men it's sex, for women it's cute.). The problem is women have the choice between either hussie behavior, or no music career at all. It's not about the music.

(Oh, and the whole Miley Cyrus twerking controversy: that was staged entirely. Just to ensure that her name is on everybody's lips. Stop calling it "freedom". They're fooling you.)

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9273 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 333, 334 ... 371  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group