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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:54 am 
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dont shoot im just a messenger..hope i dont get banned from utopia for this

Many of you have met or seen Project/Object bandleader Andre Cholmondeley. He is a good friend and a former employer of mine when I toured with P/O for four years. Here is an account he wants forwarded of an ugly scene July 5.
>
>>
> hello Friends....
>
> Sorry -- this became kind of a long letter, but it helped me exorcise some real negative shit. It took me two hours.
>
> I was working for ADRIAN BELEW, opening for ZPZ at Ottawa Bluesfest, Canada (Sat 5 July 2008)
>
> Stuff turned REAL ugly.....
>
> Basically---- one of Dweezil Zappa's guys, under his direct orders - threatened, pushed and physically attacked me.... !
>
> For the horrible act of walking onto the stage to watch and enjoy the show. Really.
>
> I should consider legal action actually..it was ...real ugly. real scary. I was shaking like a leaf... They have sued me many times, tried to at least. Should I return the favor? I ask your advice -- should I seek legal action?? I have countless witnesses, I was at work in a professional capacity. Canada law on this is actually quite bad news for someone who would want to work here again....I could cripple the Zappa family financially, real bad news since they are losing their shirts trying to do these tours, pay cuts, playing smaller and smaller venues etc isn't helping from what I hear.
>
> Their Monitor guy, Dave, almost shoved me off the stage, a 10 to 15ft drop, so scary. Scenes of "broken leg in London Orchestra pit" may dance through your head......
>
> These people actually had a MEETING on THE BUS...Tour Manager, Dweezil, crew, etc. Wrap your mind around the level off dysfunction -- to have a fucking MEETING about a guy you hate --- a guy who has never really done anything but piss you off for some reason. Imagine being so unprofessional -- and self-important -- to think that a HUGE festival, should do your bidding and ban people from public areas. I know - Unreal. - But -- par for the course in Post-Mortem Zappa-land. No surprise. Bullying at every turn.
>
> After a meeting on the bus --Dweezil then demanded from the Festival stage manager (ONE HOUR before their show!!) that I would NOT BE SEEN by him (Dweezil).....!! he asked that he NOT SEE ME AT ALL, EVER, throughout the night. I can't wait to see when he delivers to the shocked people at TODAY's festival the same pompous request.
>
> The incredible, pro stage mgr guy, Wiggy, from the Ottawa Bluesfest, ensured cooler heads prevailed all night. I hope we work together again.
>
> Ok, Now, this is a GIANT festival with about 230 bands...11 days.... we are on a fucking SIDE STAGE -- and Dweezil DEMANDS of the festival staff- ONE HOUR BEFORE HIS SHOW - to KEEP ME OFF THE STAGE (even the side stage, monitor area, backstage, etc!!) and make sure he (DWEEZIL) NEVER SEE ME!!!! Can you even wrap your mind around that??? he wanted to CONTROL the attendance - at a public event he is getting paid to be at - of someone he is soooo pissed at. Unreal.
>
> The (very cool) stage manager , when I asked him -- said " Dude - no, I have NO PROBLEM with you going into the AUDIENCE and watching them, front row, whatever. I just have to respect these guys and ask you to stay off the stage. I wanna run a smooth show - I am here for 11 days, I have no time for issues"
>
> As you all know-- I'm a fucking PRO, and I of course honored the request -- I stayed off stage. But this is after FINDING OUT for the first time....with the prick monitor guy SCREAMING IN MY FACE AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS -- SPITTING IN MY GODDAMN FACE...and pushing me backwards to the edge.... it was terrifying and I've seen a lot of dark shit in this life, trust me on that.
>
> It was unreal. Surreal. The best part is -- before ZPZ played - BELEW played--- and I had met this very same guy - Dave - monitor guy -- and he was COOL!! We were rapping, talking gear, he showed me a pic on his computer of his guitar-rig..which featured the same amp that Adrian uses (Johnson JM 150), like good nerds we chuckled about that as well as his computer gadget his laptop sat on...some device with 2 fans to cool it off, blah blah blah. We talked about him being new on the crew, after I said "Napoleon says hi" --"oh no -- that was the old guy, I am new since last year, etc etc"....We talked all kinds of stuff -- later he claimed "Well I thought you were just acting like nothing was going on". Wow.
>
> So-- SAME GUY turn into a RAGING PSYCHO 2 hrs later!!!! He literally almost pushed me off the stage and down some steps. It was scary shit. I can't emphazise that enough. I am shaking still, almost 12 hrs later as i type this after 4 hrs sleep.
>
> I'm not easily shaken, you know that. But I drive 5 hrs today -- to another fest where ZPZ again plays right after us --- and I dunno how it will turn out. I went to the monitor guy after the show and said "Dude, do you have something to say to me"??
>
> He copped TONS of attitude, but I actually got him to begrudgingly apologize, I accepted it, kinda, since he claimed he had been TOLD by up to 6 people that I was FULLY INFORMED of my "persona non grata" status. Well- I wasn't informed. The FIRST TIME I knew about ANY of this crap was when he violently accosted me!!
>
> I think I will call the next P/O tour by that title. --- PERSONA NON GRATA. how do you like it??
>
> I feel extra let down that I wasn't warned, wasn't told. Joe Travers, the bass player Pete and other crew/band members said hi, some shook my hand, we rapped. I - as I always try to -- will give the benefit of the doubt that each person thought "Oh - I thought Someone ELSE told him". I feel sorry for these people -- including my hero Thomas Nordegg -- thee greatest guitar tech in the Solar System, who I had a lovely time hanging with all afternoon before I loaded in.
>
> I feel sorry that they are all caught between the horrible pressure of being told to DISS ME as part of their job....and knowing me for years and knowing who and what I really am. Terrible - to put people in that position. But that's how tyrants operate. Pitting people against each other. It's worked for centuries. Check the history books.
>
> OK. whatever. But does the 'adult' monitor guy need to have dealt with it that way??? Screaming at the TOP of his lungs, spitting his filthy fucking spit in my face, pushing me backwards in shock?? Later he even justified the screaming (!!) --- "hey my in-ear monitors were on". Yeah right. Any pro engineer knows how loud they are talking!! Ridiculous. Dude has major issues and I will make sure I deal with him today with lost of witnesses around.
>
>
> Thank You,
> André
>
> Now -- I'm not gloating here but.......I'm The guy who, Unlike Dweezil Zappa, has shared the stage with more Zappa alumni and family than almost ANYONE BUT FRANK ZAPPA ..people like Ike Willis, Napoleon Murphy Brock, Candy Zappa, Ed Mann, Roy Estrada, Mike Keneally, Adrian Belew, Denny Walley, Don Preston, Bunk Gardner, Bob Harris, Thana Harris, Jimmy Carl Black, Billy Mundi, Ray White, Al Malkin, Arthur Barrow, Bruce Bickford and more. Actually only someone like the amazing Ed Mann, Ike Willis, Scott Thunes or Chad Wackerman has been onstage with more people -- due to their LONG tenure in the band (over 21 years for Ed and about 7-10 years for Chad/Scott/Ike)
>
> I'm not gloating. It's called PRIDE. I am proud I have dedicated a part of my musical life, just one part -- to paying back to a man who changed my life - Frank Zappa. An amazing, genius man I was lucky enough to shake hands with several times, look in his eyes from 3 feet away, tell him a joke or two, walk up to at a concert and give a funny sign to (feb 1988 , wash DC) that made him laugh his ass off (cherished memory!! Making Zappa laugh!!! C'mon - can it get better??!!!)
>
> A man who asked on his deathbed for people, musicians or not - to PLAY HIS MUSIC!! Frank asked for that -- I have always tried to honor that request. I am PROUD of engineering a SOLD OUT show at Irving Plaza, Halloween 2001, raising TEN GRAND for Prostate Cancer research (a show that owes much credit to my great management team at CEG Music in NYC and the great Matt Ross, now CEO of Paul Green School of Rock). I am PROUD of getting many , many alumni out of RETIREMENT and back onstage. I am PROUD of paying my way, losing money to go all the way to my beloved Germany, to play music and hang out with THOUSANDS of Freaks...at the Zappanale festival -now being SUED by Gail Zappa as well.
>
> I'm proud of my work in this area. No one can or will ever take that away from me. Frank Zappa changed my WORLD at age 16.....and I am very very proud to have had the chance to meet most of his players, to call them all my friends to this day. I am proud to have his original family members as cherished friends. I say this not to impress anyone but to add perspective. No one reading this is unaware of the dark energy that has emanated from Zappa central in recent years. It's a thing of real concern.
>
> PS: This is the core of what pisses them off. They have BURNT EVERY BRIDGE with most of the Zappa alumni and family -- and they hate themselves for it. They know they've BLOWN IT and insulted Frank's Legacy. They know they can NEVER turn back -- can never celebrate his deep kinship with so, so many people.
>
> They know that Musicians they have sued, dissed in the press, not paid, ignored as they stood in the audience at ZPZ shows...won't take that crap and will not ever work with them. I have kept silent about THAT part of things for YEARS...but being physically threatened by Dweezil's crew CROSSES A LINE that I can never go back over. Sorry, Dweezil. You should have thought about your actions. Right now they are in court with the ZAPPANALE...they have sent cease and desist letters to Bogus Pomp and other bands, they keep going after the Grandmothers...suing TV stations....it doesn't end with me -- and that's how I sleep at night -- IT'S NOT JUST ME!!!
>
> As peaceful as a person as I am----I cannot sit by with this crap - It's been OVER TEN YEARS of attacks, insulting emails from Gail, LAWSUIT THREATS, threats to some alumni who play with us, falsified, libelous letters from ASCAP/, and watching the SAME happen to many friends and colleagues WORLDWIDE. It's scary, downright scary. The "Zappa" "Family" feels it can just go around suing, attacking, and trying to squash the truth -- but reality and truth have a way of bubbling up.
>
> Why has EVERY SINGLE LAWSUIT filed against me by Gail Zappa been thrown out ?? Why did i win in NY State Court AGAINST Gail Zappa and ASCAP? because their claims are baseless. My band stays within acceptable US and international law where applicable -- performing the music of a composer in certified venues. End of Story.
>
> I write this to all of you -- in case some dark shit goes down today (Sun, 6 July 2008) at the 2nd festival, in Quebec City QC. I will go there - do my job -- and stay out of the way. I haven't decided yet if I will watch the music --some of my favorite music ever -- from the audience, up front, as I deserve. But we'll see.
>
> My boss--my amazing friend actually -- Mr. Adrian Belew -- has not decided if he will perform on one song today with them. I can;'t speak for him but he is upset -- and feels caught between some painful stuff. Again-- the method of pitting people against each other is in play.
>
> I Urged Adrian to do whatever he feels is right -- and to forget about this (I know- impossible). But he knows that I will not at all be upset if he gets onstage with them, well, with Dweezil. You know why?? Because from BEGINNING TO END -- I have always been about one goddamned thing - FRANK and HIS MUSIC...and about YOU -- the fans and alumni! that's all!!! Every last one of you on here, many who have celebrated Frank's amazing music with me and my band....KNOW THAT. And I thank you again -- and hope we meet again in music.
>
> I also thank, deeply, a blood relative of Frank's who will remain nameless -- who related to me 2 days ago, before all this - in email an old saying:
>
> "They .....will get you sick before you get them well."
>
> (this person added the words........)
>
> "I urge you to protect your beautiful mind from the psychic poison, of which there is a never ending supply."
>
> Great stuff. This made my day. I am trying to do that, my friend. I am trying real hard. You got me through yesterday in many ways and your words will echo all day as I deal with another encounter with this dysfunctional camp.
>
> This letter is public domain. Spread It to others if you feel the need. Post it on forums. Delete it if you don't care. But ponder it as another chapter in this crazy, post-mortem, mis-handling of Frank's legacy. Horrible.
>

>
> PS -Believe it or not --- when I heard about us opening for ZPZ -- after getting over the shock and apprehension, I decided that if I saw Dweezil, I would walk up to him and say "hey man... I know there's lots of water under the bridge..but it's GREAT what you have done and are doing...and just fantastic how you have celebrated your dad's music - Thank You."
>
> Ike Willis, Napoleon Murphy Brock and others are my witness on that, I told them of my intent over a month ago. I was taking the high road -- I greeted every single one of Dweezil's crew with honor and respect -- I genuinely loved meeting the ones I didn't know -- I stayed and watched their show (missing most of Steely Dan, ouch!!) - even after all the crap. I watched, invisibly, from the backstage grounds near stage left. I kept myself unseen. I honored the festival stage manager's requests - great guy. I'm about the music and I want you to know that always. But this crap can't be allowed.
>
> Help me-- should I be suing them?? Should I walk away and just keep living my life at as high a spiritual level as I can manage?? Don't worry -- will go into today's encounter peacefully -- a very , very difficult day lies ahead.
>
> Yours,
> André Cholmondeley
> Tour Manager/Guitar Tech - Adrian Belew Power Trio
> Founder/Guitarist/Grey Hairs - PROJECT/OBJECT - the longest running, internationally touring Zappa repertoire band. Actually Respecting the Alumni Who Made the Music Come Alive


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:31 am 
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I've copied and pasted this post in case it (or, should I say, WHEN it) gets deleted.


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 Post subject: The assault...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:53 am 
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Hey Andre,
As a friend, I would say don't pursue this to the next legal level. While you could well prevail in the Canadian court system in proving that an assault took place and that Dweezil's action's provoked it, I can't see how that benefits you or any of the Zappa fans out there.
Instead.....
Get Project/Object back out on the road on a grand tour, including Napi, Ike, Don, and Adrian, with Denny where he can make it , and show Dweeze how grown-up professionals act. Play The Music, like Frank said, and know with certainty that what goes around comes around.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:09 am 
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This is already old news, which has been posted a few times to this forum.

Andre' IS NOT going to bring legal action with regards to this incident.

A report of the following day's incident with the ZPZ tour manager has also been posted to this forum.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:18 am 
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jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
This is already old news, which has been posted a few times to this forum.

Andre' IS NOT going to bring legal action with regards to this incident.

A report of the following day's incident with the ZPZ tour manager has also been posted to this forum.


I dunno about this. Where is the following?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:12 pm 
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This really IS stalkerish behavior. It's like Andre is obsessed. I think any psychologist would have a field day with Andre's post.

It surprises me that those who rush to Andre's defense and take part in this sideshow by posting his message any place they can, fail to see the truly distasteful transparency of what Andre's message and its intent really is. Furthermore, their blind faith that his breathless and melodramatic account is the factual gospel truth, is also pretty stunning.

He clearly incited this incident, and his disingenuous posturing belies his real intent - which is to get as much attention for himself and his cause as possible by inserting himself into a place where he clearly knew he was not wanted, thus causing trouble, and then subsequently grossly distorting his account of the events. It's a really pathetic cry for attention, and a sad attempt to somehow weave himself into the fabric of the Zappa oeuvre, just like he has pathetically done with ex-Zappa alumni. Even his band name "project/object" insinuates that he is some kind of continuation of FZ's legacy, and that's sick-making.

Then we have his mock outrage and hurt feelings, where we are all meant to buy into his account and how shocked he was by it - and how he's still "shaking like a leaf". Then he insinuates (rather laughably) that he might have a ZFT hit on him and tells people that if something bad were to happen to him, it could just be because of some plot to snuff him out. Yeah right. What a bunch of bullshit.

Take some fucking responsibility for your actions for once Andre, you douche.

Do people really take this paranoia seriously? Do seemingly intelligent people really buy into the bullshit of this stinky and very unpleasant individual?

Of course, Jimmie D does, but then there's another great example of someone so deluded by his own self-imagined grandeur, that he expected that the ZPZ band and crew would be not only happy to comp him a ticket to the show back in DC in '06, but would actually want to interact with him and tolerate his presence backstage after his comments and trolling in this forum. Not even Napoleon wanted to deal with that, despite Jimmie constantly dropping his name like they are actually friends. But I digress.

I wonder how long people will buy this shit before they realize just how pathetic Andre and his entire cause is.

He's clearly a failed musician - he needs to make a living teching for other guitarists rather than being on stage himself. He has been unable to sustain a career on his own merits and instead has to leech off FZ's legacy, and try to actually make people believe he has a right to do so - moreso that FZ's own family. His entire presence is entirely negative. Shame on him for even trying to insinuate himself anywhere near the name Zappa. He certainly hasn't brought anything of value to FZ, his music, or his legacy. Only bitterness and wrong notes.

He fails to realize the undeniable truth: If Frank actually knew Andre, he'd despise him.

It's blatantly obvious that in this case, Andre did not need to be anywhere in the vicinity of the backstage area during the ZPZ show, yet he insisted on hanging around like a bad smell (literally... the guy needs some deodorant..)

Andre, get a fucking life you pathetic sad little man. And while you're at it, get a fucking career too. Go and try to create something of your own instead of slithering your way into the lives of ex-Zappa alumni, and into backstage areas where you clearly know that you are unwelcome.

- Seraph


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:05 pm 
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Hey Andre,

Get your panties out of your crack and man-up a bit will you? You act like you have a right to hang out with ZPZ or their people. You don't.

And quit bragging about how many Zappa Alum you've sucked off. No one cares. No one is impressed. No one but you is keeping score.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:07 pm 
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lol

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:34 pm 
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There are several interesting tidbits to be collected from this story.

One is Andre considering it normal to walk around on stage. I hope it was a misformulation.
The other is Andre not mentioning any contact between him and Dweezil. He mentions contact with other members of the ZPZ band and with the techies and monitors, but not Dweezil. Did he either not talk to him, or decide that the story of his chat with DZ is not favourable for him?

Either way, from Andre's descriptions of what the monitor guy did to him, I gather this could qualify as being mistreated, which is where the police comes him. If he got mistreated, especially in front of witnesses, he ought to go to the police. It's not Andre vs ZFT, or Andre vs Zappa, but Andre vs Dave-the-monitor-guy.

Please Seraph andblsabob, your attacks are personal, ad hominem, therefore uninteresting, irrelevant and unnecessarily rude.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:40 pm 
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Sounds like something that would happen to Gary............ :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:54 am 
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Here's the reply from Dweezil on his blog; think what you will:
Quote:
Soap Opera: AKA Lengthy Blog about stupid stuff...
Hello Friends,
I recently read an amusing tale about an incident that supposedly took place stage side during one of our shows. The author of this highly exaggerated tale is André Cholmondeley. He would like you to believe he was physically attacked. More on that later...

Perhaps it is his dream come true that I would take a moment of my time to write a few sentences that publicly address him. It's a one shot deal - You're welcome.

Here you go...

Dateline - Los Angeles California:

The following are actual private e-mails between me and Adrian Belew. (I apologize to Adrian in advance if this causes him any aggravation.)

I would not normally be inclined to use private information in this way but it perfectly illustrates the details of the "non event" that follows.

Dweezil Zappa writes to Adrian Belew - (e-mail addresses have been removed.)

On June 20, 2008, at 1:42 am, dweezil wrote:

Hello Adrian,
I hope this e-mail finds you doing well. I have noticed that you will be playing before us at 2 upcoming shows. I would like to extend an invitation to you to sit in with us if you like during our set. We are playing "Tiny Lites" and "Flakes" either of those 2 songs could make for a good surprise cameo.

Please let me know if you would be interested.

Regards, DZ
On June 30, 2008 12:04 pm, Adrian wrote:

dweezil,
please excuse my late reply.
I've always had a secret desire to show up for a concert with no guitar and no cases full of gear, just a harmonica in my back pocket.

so...
my idea of a cool cameo would be to come out in the middle of flakes harmonica in hand, sing the sad bob dylan part, and exit stage right, hopefully to applause.
what do you think?

cheers,
adrian

ps: I greatly admire and respect what you are doing for your father's legacy.
no one deserves it more than he and I've heard you do it exceptionally well.
After this first electronic exchange I was informed that Adrian was employing André Cholmondeley as his guitar tech. André's propensity for spreading misinformation and negativity has earned him a reputation. A reputation for being obnoxious and creating conflicts.

Since those personality traits hold no appeal for me I decided to write back to Adrian with a request.

On June 30, 2008, at 11:43 pm, dweezil wrote:

Hello Adrian,
Nice to hear from you. Your idea sounds fun and easy.
I think people will appreciate it. They may even decide to clap a little bit... It happens sometimes.

We usually play Flakes midway through the show. I can say, "Take it away Bob or Adrian" whichever you prefer and you can enter to Ray's microphone.

Just let us know day of show if you're up for it and we'll do it.

On a different topic - perhaps an awkward one - I have been informed that you are working with Andre from Project Object. He is likely your friend as well as your employee so you may not enjoy what is to follow.

Whether you are aware of it or not he has instigated a lot of unpleasant things on our website forum and has made many transgressions musical and otherwise regarding Frank over the years. It would be my preference that he politely remove himself from my view before, during and after our set. For me
the phrase persona non grata is applicable in this case.

I can understand if you feel awkward relaying this and I can even understand if you choose not to accept my invitation to join us on stage as a result.

The fact of the matter is he knows what he has done and it should come as no surprise that I wouldn't appreciate him being anywhere near me now or in the future.

I apologize for having to bring this to your attention.

I thank both of you for your consideration and cooperation on this matter in advance.

Regards, DZ
A politely worded simple request. Here's Adrian's response.


On July 1, 2008, at 9:05 am, Adrian wrote:

dweezil,
please introduce me any way you like.
what key is flakes?
I'll bring the appropriate harmonica.

it's true andre works for me now.
I will make certain he is persona non grata as best I can.

as I told gail, I try always to honor frank, his memory, and his music. he remains a towering inspiration to me. I loved him too, and I could never repay him for what he did for me.

I take responsibility for my own actions, never for the actions of others.
I've have heard bits of the rhetoric surrounding project object (after the fact) but remain apart from it all.
should you or your family have any problem with anything I might ever do, please let me know.

see you onstage.
cheers,
adrian
That was July 1st. Whether or not Adrian decided to convey my request to Andre I do not know for sure. But it is safe to assume by his e-mail that he had every intention of doing so.

It is also clear by his e-mail that he is aware of the existing circumstances that could warrant such a request.

Dateline - Ottawa July 5th:

Showtime for Zappa Plays Zappa. Dave Tobias is mixing our in ear monitor mix and is dealing with a keyboard that has lost phantom power. Andre saunters up and tries to make himself at home in Dave's work area. Why would he attempt to do this? Surely he has been told that it would be polite to stay away by his friend and employer Adrian Belew. One must ask, "Why not go enjoy the show from the audience or anywhere else... just be polite and respect a simple request?" Besides, who willingly wants to be in a place where they know they are not welcome?

Dave stops Andre and relays the message that he is not supposed to be there. No touching, pushing or spitting occurred. Loud talking happened, that's it. There was a concert going on and Dave had in ear monitors in his ears. At no point was anyone instructed to be rude to Andre in fact just the opposite is true. Andre even mentioned in his own blog about how nice everyone was earlier in the day. He even mentioned Dave Tobias. Everyone believed that Andre knew about the request and was willing to co-operate and watch the show from a different vantage point later on.

Apparently Adrian must not have made it clear to him that he was not welcome in the stage area. Or maybe he did and Andre decided to ignore the request? In any case, Dave Tobias was a little surprised to see Andre in his work area given all of the back story. He most likely assumed Andre was informed of the request to politely be elsewhere and that he was just trying to be obnoxious again - which is why I originally requested he politely remove himself in the first place.

That's end of the story. Probable miscommunication from Employer to employee. End result stupid drama.

The show the next night had no incident whatsoever. Andre still temerariously snuck himself to the side of the stage though. It's just his way. He can't help himself.

Contrary to his report where claims he locked eyes with me at some point during the show, I'm here to tell you that it never took place. He'd know if I locked eyes with him. "What an imagination"

Here's a paragraph dedicated solely to Andre. To me, if you really have respect for my Father and his music you have an asinine way of showing it. By repeatedly insulting Frank's family and ignoring copyright laws related to his music you have proven the exact opposite of respect. Your obsequious fawning over "alumni" and your precious associations you have with them are embarrassingly shallow. Your attempts to draw attention to yourself as some sort of soldier fighting the good fight for Frank's music reveal what you really are - a depressing epigone starving for recognition.

One last thing, for me to care at all about what you say or do would mean that I have some sort of respect for you or your opinion.
Sadly, I have neither.

End of 15 minutes...

Regards, DZ


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:56 am 
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Maybe Dave was "speaking with consumption", as we say in The Netherlands...

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:03 am 
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BBP wrote:
Please Seraph andblsabob, your attacks are personal, ad hominem, therefore uninteresting, irrelevant and unnecessarily rude.

And, most importantly, FAR too conveniently timed to coincide with forumers' dissent with regard to ZPZ or the ZFT.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:10 am 
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My take at the "Adrian Belew" thread: http://www.zappa.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=366682&highlight=#366682

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BBP wrote:
Here's the reply from Dweezil on his blog; think what you will:
Quote:
Soap Opera: AKA Lengthy Blog about stupid stuff...
Hello Friends,
I recently read an amusing tale about an incident that supposedly took place stage side during one of our shows. The author of this highly exaggerated tale is André Cholmondeley. He would like you to believe he was physically attacked. More on that later...

Perhaps it is his dream come true that I would take a moment of my time to write a few sentences that publicly address him. It's a one shot deal - You're welcome.

Here you go...

Dateline - Los Angeles California:

The following are actual private e-mails between me and Adrian Belew. (I apologize to Adrian in advance if this causes him any aggravation.)

I would not normally be inclined to use private information in this way but it perfectly illustrates the details of the "non event" that follows.

Dweezil Zappa writes to Adrian Belew - (e-mail addresses have been removed.)

On June 20, 2008, at 1:42 am, dweezil wrote:

Hello Adrian,
I hope this e-mail finds you doing well. I have noticed that you will be playing before us at 2 upcoming shows. I would like to extend an invitation to you to sit in with us if you like during our set. We are playing "Tiny Lites" and "Flakes" either of those 2 songs could make for a good surprise cameo.

Please let me know if you would be interested.

Regards, DZ
On June 30, 2008 12:04 pm, Adrian wrote:

dweezil,
please excuse my late reply.
I've always had a secret desire to show up for a concert with no guitar and no cases full of gear, just a harmonica in my back pocket.

so...
my idea of a cool cameo would be to come out in the middle of flakes harmonica in hand, sing the sad bob dylan part, and exit stage right, hopefully to applause.
what do you think?

cheers,
adrian

ps: I greatly admire and respect what you are doing for your father's legacy.
no one deserves it more than he and I've heard you do it exceptionally well.
After this first electronic exchange I was informed that Adrian was employing André Cholmondeley as his guitar tech. André's propensity for spreading misinformation and negativity has earned him a reputation. A reputation for being obnoxious and creating conflicts.

Since those personality traits hold no appeal for me I decided to write back to Adrian with a request.

On June 30, 2008, at 11:43 pm, dweezil wrote:

Hello Adrian,
Nice to hear from you. Your idea sounds fun and easy.
I think people will appreciate it. They may even decide to clap a little bit... It happens sometimes.

We usually play Flakes midway through the show. I can say, "Take it away Bob or Adrian" whichever you prefer and you can enter to Ray's microphone.

Just let us know day of show if you're up for it and we'll do it.

On a different topic - perhaps an awkward one - I have been informed that you are working with Andre from Project Object. He is likely your friend as well as your employee so you may not enjoy what is to follow.

Whether you are aware of it or not he has instigated a lot of unpleasant things on our website forum and has made many transgressions musical and otherwise regarding Frank over the years. It would be my preference that he politely remove himself from my view before, during and after our set. For me
the phrase persona non grata is applicable in this case.

I can understand if you feel awkward relaying this and I can even understand if you choose not to accept my invitation to join us on stage as a result.

The fact of the matter is he knows what he has done and it should come as no surprise that I wouldn't appreciate him being anywhere near me now or in the future.

I apologize for having to bring this to your attention.

I thank both of you for your consideration and cooperation on this matter in advance.

Regards, DZ
A politely worded simple request. Here's Adrian's response.


On July 1, 2008, at 9:05 am, Adrian wrote:

dweezil,
please introduce me any way you like.
what key is flakes?
I'll bring the appropriate harmonica.

it's true andre works for me now.
I will make certain he is persona non grata as best I can.

as I told gail, I try always to honor frank, his memory, and his music. he remains a towering inspiration to me. I loved him too, and I could never repay him for what he did for me.

I take responsibility for my own actions, never for the actions of others.
I've have heard bits of the rhetoric surrounding project object (after the fact) but remain apart from it all.
should you or your family have any problem with anything I might ever do, please let me know.

see you onstage.
cheers,
adrian
That was July 1st. Whether or not Adrian decided to convey my request to Andre I do not know for sure. But it is safe to assume by his e-mail that he had every intention of doing so.

It is also clear by his e-mail that he is aware of the existing circumstances that could warrant such a request.

Dateline - Ottawa July 5th:

Showtime for Zappa Plays Zappa. Dave Tobias is mixing our in ear monitor mix and is dealing with a keyboard that has lost phantom power. Andre saunters up and tries to make himself at home in Dave's work area. Why would he attempt to do this? Surely he has been told that it would be polite to stay away by his friend and employer Adrian Belew. One must ask, "Why not go enjoy the show from the audience or anywhere else... just be polite and respect a simple request?" Besides, who willingly wants to be in a place where they know they are not welcome?

Dave stops Andre and relays the message that he is not supposed to be there. No touching, pushing or spitting occurred. Loud talking happened, that's it. There was a concert going on and Dave had in ear monitors in his ears. At no point was anyone instructed to be rude to Andre in fact just the opposite is true. Andre even mentioned in his own blog about how nice everyone was earlier in the day. He even mentioned Dave Tobias. Everyone believed that Andre knew about the request and was willing to co-operate and watch the show from a different vantage point later on.

Apparently Adrian must not have made it clear to him that he was not welcome in the stage area. Or maybe he did and Andre decided to ignore the request? In any case, Dave Tobias was a little surprised to see Andre in his work area given all of the back story. He most likely assumed Andre was informed of the request to politely be elsewhere and that he was just trying to be obnoxious again - which is why I originally requested he politely remove himself in the first place.

That's end of the story. Probable miscommunication from Employer to employee. End result stupid drama.

The show the next night had no incident whatsoever. Andre still temerariously snuck himself to the side of the stage though. It's just his way. He can't help himself.

Contrary to his report where claims he locked eyes with me at some point during the show, I'm here to tell you that it never took place. He'd know if I locked eyes with him. "What an imagination"

Here's a paragraph dedicated solely to Andre. To me, if you really have respect for my Father and his music you have an asinine way of showing it. By repeatedly insulting Frank's family and ignoring copyright laws related to his music you have proven the exact opposite of respect. Your obsequious fawning over "alumni" and your precious associations you have with them are embarrassingly shallow. Your attempts to draw attention to yourself as some sort of soldier fighting the good fight for Frank's music reveal what you really are - a depressing epigone starving for recognition.

One last thing, for me to care at all about what you say or do would mean that I have some sort of respect for you or your opinion.
Sadly, I have neither.

End of 15 minutes...

Regards, DZ

.....and here's another side of the story..... 8)

Tuesday, July 08, 2008

Correcting The Record......
Sigh.
Hello everyone.

-Of course Dweezil is entitled to his opinion, and much of his blog is just that. I will try to address the falsehoods.

1. Sorry, Dweezil.....despite what you think --"My dream come true" wouldn't be seeing you spell my name right (thanks!) - it would be for you and your family to leave me alone forever. Folks - I have a stack of lawsuit threats from the ZFT that will eventually be publicized after further counsel. It's been a stupid, long journey, one that actually results in much laughter for us in Project/Object as we tour around enjoying the performing of Frank Zappa's music, something we'll do for as long as we feel like it. We prefer to honor FRANK'S LAST WISH.... wherein he asked musicians AND non-musicians to "PLAY MY MUSIC." And it's funny how you repeatedly say You "could care less about me" etc...yet you write 20 paragraphs!!!!

At least I am brutally honest -- I am often fascinated with the dark energy you guys keep unleashing on fans, alumni and others who cross your path. Watching what pushes Gail's button, seeing what will make her freak out and post in some weird, cryptic response to a puzzled fan....And writing intensely about it exorcises it from my soul.

Then a few months later Gail freaks out on someone or sues them, and I feel the need to jump right in again. You're right - I'm hopeless!! last time - was when she went after that site for playing 30-year old cassette tapes of your Dad's music!!! Wasn't that a riot! Hundreds of people weighed in their disgust - again- with her behavior and clear disdain for the fans. I love how she has made you all those new fans in Germany by SUING THE ZAPPANALE... pissing off countless EU fans forever, If you are to believe their angry posts. But -- that's all for another book.

2. Dweezil wrote/blogged:

"The following are actual private e-mails between me and Adrian Belew. (I apologize to Adrian in advance if this causes him any aggravation.) I would not normally be inclined to use private information in this way but it perfectly illustrates the details of the "non event" that follows."


Wow -- how very unprofessional. And... upping the ante, huh?? I have chosen to never publish incredibly damaging emails from people very very close to Dweezil, close by profession and blood. His mother always has a big bunch of legalese in HER emails threatening legal action if HER emails are re-distributed....

...Yet, He sees fit to publish someone's private email to him...without asking first. That's some deep shit folk -- but are you surprised? And BTW -- I will for the sake of clarity consider Gail's actions identical/tantamount to Dweezil's, since he, his tour, and his work are pretty much controlled and owned as a corporate entity by her.

3. Dweezil then wrote:

"After this first electronic exchange I was informed that Adrian was employing André Cholmondeley as his guitar tech. André's propensity for spreading misinformation and negativity has earned him a reputation. A reputation for being obnoxious and creating conflicts. Since those personality traits hold no appeal for me I decided to write back to Adrian with a request."


Well -- first the funny part -- to see Dweezil Z. write "... personality traits (being obnoxious and creating conflicts) hold no appeal for me" is one of the funniest things I've ever seen...Wow. Do I even have to respond?? With a tour manager like he has (note the several stories cropping up about how she, Mary Jo, EXACTLY fits that description....) Whatever. Check Dr Dot's blog for Mary Jo's horrible, unprofessional and rude conduct at a ZPZ show in Germany. Then -- check the record for such conduct from me.

Anyway - the FACTS are as follows:

Adrian - who I spoke to minutes ago - has this to say, precisely: "..When I received the 2nd email -- After thinking about it, I was incensed - I thought Who is he (Dweezil) to tell me where my crew should be. I need André there at my show - how does he expect him to not be there after as well -- with the gear breakdown, etc."

He also reiterates what he told me right after the SCREAMING and PUSHING that his monitor guy delivered.

Adrian did not tell me, and instructed others not to, so as to not distract or upset me when I had a very busy, difficult job to do at our festival.

FACT: I WAS COMPLETELY UNAWARE OF DWEEZIL's silly, immature, and out-of-place "persona non grata" request.

I will say this-- I regret now that I chose THAT particular part of the stage to check out the show from. In hindsight -- I should have went to the rear part of stage left-- where local crew people were gathered and I would have been lost in a small crowd. Without thinking -- I ran up the stairs of the nearest vantage point from our trailer -- the monitor area. No 'wacky, evil plot' was in place. Just a random place to watch the show.

I mostly place the blame on Dweezil, of course, for such a questionable request. But - Dave Tobias/monitor guy -- real drag, Dave, that you couldn’t have just been an adult and asked me to leave.

More Dweezil Ephemera ("Bold/Quoted text"):

" [Andre'..]..has made many transgressions musical and otherwise regarding Frank over the years"


I'd love to see these listed, Dweezil. Go for it. I dare you. Would some of those transgressions be.......helping to bridge the gap between the early '90s and when you FINALLY discovered you could actually get a gig, by playing your dad's music??? Was it when I helped get a lot of alumni BACK on the road?? Was it all the times I plugged ZFT CD releases to people who had no idea of them ...'cos you guys weren't advertising well?

"It is also clear by his e-mail that he (Adrian Belew) is aware of the existing circumstances that could warrant such a request."

No-- what Adrian said (read it folks) was - he was aware of BITS OF THE RHETORIC. Huge difference. Adrian is all about the music. His music, first and foremost. He appreciates what Frank did for him, but he doesn't wade into the muck, and I never drag him into stuff.

Then the crux of the biscuit:

"...Showtime for Zappa Plays Zappa. Dave Tobias is mixing our in ear monitor mix and is dealing with a keyboard that has lost phantom power. Andre saunters up and tries to make himself at home in Dave's work area. Why would he attempt to do this? Surely he has been told that it would be polite to stay away by his friend and employer Adrian Belew. One must ask, "Why not go enjoy the show from the audience or anywhere else... just be polite and respect a simple request?" Besides, who willingly wants to be in a place where they know they are not welcome?"

So here are a couple things:

-Having worked and played countless festivals -- I know that with a laminate, you can watch from WHEREVER as long as it isn't interfering with crew activity, sightlines, space, or ACTUALLY on the stage. And even that is allowed by some bands. Take a look at ANY festival -- the sidestage is usually crowded with other crew people, techs, friends, press, etc. So that's just dumb.

Again - IF I HAD BEEN told -- MOST OF ALL BY DAVE/MONITOR GUY HIMSELF -- who was all nice and chatty with me just 2 hours earlier during OUR SHOW…then I wouldn't have come up there.

-Dweezil says definitively -- all of a sudden -- that "Surely he (Andre') has been told."

No, Dweezil, get it thru your head. I wasn't aware of your wishes, and I know YOU were explained this fact by several of your staff/crew, who it was made clear to. Some of them apologized for not telling me -- so I know the truth is known in your camp.

"Besides, who willingly wants to be in a place where they know they are not welcome?"

Try again, Pal. The fact is YOU were the ONLY person there who made me feel not welcome. Well, OK, let's include Dave and the next night, Tour Manager Mary Jo. I like how you ignored her getting physical with me the next night. Otherwise - EVERY LAST PERSON on your crew/bandstand was OK with my presence. Deal with it.

Here's where the LIE'S SO BIG kicks in, folks:

"...Dave stops Andre and relays the message that he is not supposed to be there. No touching, pushing or spitting occurred."

Outright, complete, utter LIE. And there are witnesses – but, of course, on this one point....we are descending into he said/she said. Dave was SCREAMING at me, and NO WAY can he blame the in-ear monitors. He spat in my face the whole time as he screamed 2-3 inches from me. When I say spit -- I mean the kind of obnoxious 'spittle' that happens when someone is right in your face, yelling. Dave is outright LYING if he now denies this. If he did nothing wrong ---Why did he apologize, and then apologize AGAIN the next day. We shook hands. There are countless witness to all this, both days.

I mentioned Dave being cool earlier in the day, to explain my shock that he was suddenly pushing, shoving me backwards on the little monitor stage area.

"Apparently Adrian must not have made it clear to him that he was not welcome in the stage area"

Well -- that's.....Completely true !! No one told me - Not Adrian - for reasons listed above -- BUT WORST OF ALL -- NOT YOUR GUITAR TECHS -- NO ONE IN YOUR CREW, NOT DAVE...NO ONE. Dave had every right to say, after we were rapping about amps and laptops, "hey, man --- this kinda sucks, but you can't be around here later on. Dweezil has requested we make sure you NOT be onstage. Don't be around when we start."

I would not have been surprised at all, really. But I would have KNOWN IN ADVANCE!! Really lame that all these ZPZ crew/tech/band people came up and said Hi and didn't tell me.

And -- you won't hear from Any ZPZ or ZFT people...because they are contractually required to NOT TALK ABOUT the ZFT. Can you find anyone who does speak about their time in the tank?? It's a scary, control-freak little world in there.

DWEEZIL: "The show the next night had no incident whatsoever. Andre still temerariously snuck himself to the side of the stage though. It's just his way. He can't help himself."

Funny stuff. "Snuck On"...?? Jeez. Try harder, pal.

Folks -- it was a festival with scores of bands -- I had a laminate on that guaranteed me access to ANY STAGE at ANY TIME throughout the fest. That's how it works in the REAL WORLD, Dweezil. Maybe when you have your OWN band you may learn this. Remember how that band "Z" ended, folks?? Lots of fun stories there about how people are treated by Mr. Dweezil Zappa. Go check the facts on how people were removed from THAT organization. Horrible.

So -- after packing the Belew Band gear in to our van -- I came up to stage left, to hear some of my fave music -- trying to STAY OUT OF DWEEZIL'S SIGHT, and actually honor the requests of the crew guys, all of whom, again, were really cool. I feel sorry for them, that's all. But -- one day, one by one, they will not be working in the Gulag -- and you will only hear MORE stories. Mark my words.

DWEEZIL: Contrary to his report where claims he locked eyes with me at some point during the show, I'm here to tell you that it never took place. He'd know if I locked eyes with him. "What an imagination"

Dweez...! I thought we had a connection bro.... c'mon I KNOW you did...I was feelin' all fuzzy....Didn't you feel something....anything??? I feel so cheap....

Seriously tho' - I'm willing to conclude I was mistaken. But -- It sure looked like he was looking RIGHT AT ME. See -- I don't believe half of what Dweezil says, based on the last couple years of watching how ZFT deals with agreed-upon money deals, DVD payments and the like.. Anyway --Like I said -- I tried to stay far out of his view - I was back FURTHER than the percussion and drum riser line, way back on stage left. Doesn't this guy realize if I were TRYING TO PISS HIM OFF I would have insisted on standing on stage right near his tech so he could see me?? Or going out to the front row or photo pit?? All places I was legally allowed to be?? Crazy fucking delusions of grandeur.

Finallly -- addressing his personal paragraph to me ( How neat!! He cares!! Sigh.....!!)
- I Don't need your "respect", pal. Never did, Never will. Not yours, or anyone in the ZFT. And neither does a fan favorite like Ike Willis, who is appalled at your behavior in all this. He can't wait to get on the road again -- despite your mom going after him every time he tries to play a gig. (Everyone -- please check the facts about the HORRIBLE crap Gail pulled on URR when they tried to tour around December 21 2007. Embarrassing. My fave part was GAIL --GOING AFTER THE BEER COMPANY that does the Zappa beer -- 'cos the owner dared donate some cases of beer to the shows!!! How petty and psycho is THAT?? Wanna deny that, Dweezil?? Wanna explain it?? A matter of Public record. Folks -- just check the history. I sleep at night 'cos volumes of examples of fucked up behavior back up my side of this sordid mess, which I can't wait to be away from, really. But I don't like lies being published.

-I don't insult Frank's "family". The close family members of Frank's that I speak with regularly say they have not seen or spoken or heard from you, Dweezil, or any of you....for AGES, since we are spilling ugly personal info. I wonder why that is. Any thoughts?? I have some, and many facts to go with those thoughts. But -- those are for a later book, believe me. Interesting, huh, folks.

- My band, and ALL the other bands Gail wastes Frank’s hard-earned money suing, stays within the LAW when playing Zappa music. Ask yourself -- could we all do it YEAR AFTER YEAR, if they didn't?? More Crazy talk. And -- a funny aside -- ZPZ does the "Owner of a lonely heart" vamp for the solo in "Bamboozled" . OK fine. Are you guys paying Royalties to YES for each performance?? Every night?? Did the festival have publisher paperwork done -indicating that you were doing a cover?? What was the COMPOSER'S INTENT for that YES song??? Hmmmm. See how silly and baseless such a line of attack is? And why it GOES NOWHERE???

- I don’t "fawn" over alumni --- But --I truly love the ones I have been blessed to become good friends with. It's called LOYALTY, Dweezil - LOOK IT UP.

See- I UNDERSTAND that the fans LOVE the alumni. The fans-- unlike you, it seems -- understand that your dad hired VERY SPECIAL PEOPLE -- who not only had talent,..... but that indescribable certain something else. So many of them brought PERSONALITY to the works..... and THAT's what sets us apart. I am unafraid to celebrate the ALUMNI, and unashamed in gushing over them, that's right. I love 'em !!! They are what MAKES the sound of so many Zappa classics, and that's why he brought certain people back so many times.... It' cool - you just have a different perspective. It's OK.

Where's the LEAD SINGER from the first tour?? Why didn't he come back??? What happened there? Maybe if you guys start making money again -- you can offer him enough to come back, I dunno. But -- funny how you can’t get ANYONE who will really sell more tickets. I LOVE Ray White -- another guy who played several times with Project/Object.......before your band. But -- with all due respect -- he doesn't sell you more tickets, does he?? Not insulting Ray at all -- but fans of him are ALREADY COMING TO YOUR SHOW. And I will continue to talk to more alumni and collect horrific stories about how you and Gail have treated them. And you know that's true. I bet you just convince yourself THEY'RE ALL CRAZY.

Basically --your show is JUST ANOTHER ZAPPA COVER BAND. One with a bigger budget than most, but......to me a band like The Grandmothers is FAR more exciting....'cos the HISTORY is there. just my opinion. They still remember when you came to see them -- stood with your arms folded at HARD ROCK CAFE in LA, and were too rude to come back and say hi. To guys whom HELPED MAKE YER DAD'S EARLY CAREER. But -- that would require respect. Remember that night??

Dr Dot has re-posted your great quote about alumni. Remember that? The problem is - while you say you have no use for them - YOU NEED THEM if you EVER hope to turn around the horrible ticket-sales slide you are experiencing. Good luck!!

-I don't need attention. My life is plenty busy and fine, thank you. I DO have an unhealthy obsession with getting the facts into the public record. NONE of this would have happened if your scared crew had simply told me to stay away. So -- I lay the blame mostly there. BTW - I was offered MUCH support from a lot of your crew after the lame-ass attack. Good luck with them. They know the deal.

PS -- the most obnoxious part of this was Dweezil's inappropriate choice to post Adrian Belew's PRIVATE EMAIL without consent. Lame. Good thing that wasn't the OTHER way around -- the incredibly litigious "Zappas" would probably sue.

To wit -- here is what Gail (at least in 2005) adds to her emails. It's standard boilerplate privacy request, but, like most protocol, the "Zappa" "Family" feels they are above such nonsense as treating people the way THEY want to be treated.

gz
copyright 2005 Zappa Family Trust.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, e-mail address and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.


So - in closing -- have a Good Day, all. I will continue to try to do my job well, and will continue to tour with various bands I play in -- including PROJECT/OBJECT -- Playing the great music of FRANK ZAPPA...and the (OFTEN SUED-BY-GAIL Mothers) anyway, anytime and whenever I choose, and with whom I choose. I will continue to stay fully within the law in doing so -- and I will continue to enjoy meeting great, fellow FRANK ZAPPA FANS.
Hmm. maybe we call our next tour ZAPPA FANS PLAY ZAPPA?? What do you think? Any votes out there?? or PERSONA NON GRATA?? I know it will be great fun -- and all are welcome. Stand by very very soon for dates and special alumni participation.

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Last edited by jimmie d killed the forum on Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:44 am 
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Another reply from Andre:

"Wow -- it's sad to hear just ONE aspect of this mess. That people will stop seeing the ZPZ. dozens of people have emailed me in support to say that.

Anyone knows -- I have ALWAYS asked that ..people not see it that way. It's not about my band vs theirs , or ANY of the countless bands vs theirs. We're ALL just cover bands - - Frank is dead and as far as I know, won't come back.

For me -- I keep it separate. One part is about them coming after ME personally for soooo many years. Anyone who has the balls to look at the dozen or more year history knows that. SO -- for me -- it's a matter of standing up for your rights and personal pride.

But -Don't punish the livelihoods of some good people -- the BAND/CREW Dweezil has. Consider my actions re: the music this week -- I stayed and watched BOTH SHOWS I was at...despite the hellish crap Dweezil causes for me. C'mon if I can still get into the MUSIC in the MIDST of all this -- surely you can.

The facts show that, even when standing onstage at a show Gail has tried to stop, calling and threatening the venue, somedays ON THE DAY OF SHOW......I go onstage and STILL plug their tours and recent releases. I may actually continue to do that, but certainly I HAVE done it for many years.

This is 'cos for me-- at the core of it all is FRANK and the music. A very pure core. I can always get right to that --- and I urge you to as well. At this point --I SUPPORT NO BOYCOTTS . I say at this point 'cos sure -- they could convince me I guess !! But -- right now -- go see the show..it's Zappa!! Enjoy! Forget the crap --If I can stand there and manage that you can too.

Yours
Andre'
Project/Object"


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:26 am 
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I'm definitely not seeing ZPZ this year... which I already decided before all this. But I'm very shocked at the attitude Dweezil displays here in this blog and in the "Dweezil Zappa Quotes" on the Quotes page.

Man, 2 years ago I paid a small fortune just to have a chance at a meet and greet, a year ago I spent an hour copying my Quacka for him, this year I don't even fancy seeing him live. He sure fell off his pedestal.

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BBP wrote:
I'm definitely not seeing ZPZ this year... which I already decided before all this. But I'm very shocked at the attitude Dweezil displays here in this blog and in the "Dweezil Zappa Quotes" on the Quotes page.

Man, 2 years ago I paid a small fortune just to have a chance at a meet and greet, a year ago I spent an hour copying my Quacka for him, this year I don't even fancy seeing him live. He sure fell off his pedestal.

The bigger they THINK they are, the harder they REALLY fall.


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Can we move on now, please?


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This is a storm in a teacup and is a waste of computors. Please stop or I'll bang your heads together

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Well, aside from his bunker mentality, Dweezil has become an excellent guitarist and comes closer to reproducing his father's distinctive sound better than anyone else I have ever heard. Go see ZPZ if you can.
Go see Project/Object when you can.
Frank had his personal faults, Dweezil obviously has his share, and Gail...God let's not go there! Let's just focus on the music and be glad that some live Zappa music is available and that material is finally starting to find its' way out of the vaults. Be a consumer of Zappa Music and do not dwell on the personalities within the ZFT, because to do so will just make the void of Frank's absence hurt even more.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:34 pm 
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Can we stop reposting the same fucking bullshit, over and over?

Its like a god damned virus.

:roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:38 pm 
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after reading through all that, the only person i feel sorry for is Adrian Belew who was getting shafted from both ends.

Dweezil's post, although rather tasteless for publishing private emails seemed the most rational, although i disagree about the copyright issue. If the venues where P/O play are paying their license fees to ascap then the bands can play whatever music they like and if the composers of that music were members of ascap, then they, or whomever they bequeathed the rights to will be paid money for the tribute bands playing their music. If the venues aren't paying the fees to ascap, then that's a problem with the venue and not the band. It's really as simple as that. If they're selling cdrs or publishing the shows online in mp3s or whatever, that's a different matter.

I also like Andre, think he's a nice guy and respect what he does out of his love for zappa's music and i think the zft go to great lengths to shit on him. Dweezil could easily have lost Andre his job with Adrian because of that email, no employer likes troublesome employees and reading between the lines, it looks like that may have been his underlying intention. Even if it wasn't, he surely would have realised that such an email could have resulted in action like that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:48 pm 
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brainpang wrote:
Can we move on now, please?

Help, I'm a Rock wrote:
Can we stop reposting the same fucking bullshit, over and over?

Its like a god damned virus.

:roll:

Agreed.

Yo Seraph, you can crawl back in your hole now (or, in your case, your parents' basement).


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:03 am 
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Jakeobs wrote:
brainpang wrote:
Can we move on now, please?

Help, I'm a Rock wrote:
Can we stop reposting the same fucking bullshit, over and over?

Its like a god damned virus.

:roll:

Agreed.

Yo Seraph, you can crawl back in your hole now (or, in your case, your parents' basement).


you're a consensus loving ass kisser. The only reason you're saying that to Seraph is because you believe that's how the majority of people will feel and you want to score brownie points. If the general consensus on the forum was in agreement with seraph, you'd be championing his bravery.

For the record, I thought Seraph went way over the top with his character assassination of andre. However, that has nothing to do with the fact that you love jump on popular bandwagons and kiss arse on a grand scale. :mrgreen:

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