Zappa.com

you're asking me if i'm retarded?

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Who's this dude with his hair straight back?
His new white socks, 'n his pants all black
His T-shirts rolled His watch is gold
A '55 Chevy that his brother just stoled

Last night I saw Flo & Eddie at my State Fair and they played Peaches! It was fun and they were hilarious as usual!

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You should spend more time on your music because the youth of America is depending on you to show the way.

I saw the Flo & Eddie version of The Mothers in November of 1970 at the Fillmore East.
It was an early show. All I knew about Flo & Eddie was from the "Chunga's Revenge" album
and that they were former Turtles. I didn't know what to expect. They confused the hell
outta me. They did the Sanzini Bros. act in between songs. Zappa seemed to
enjoy it; he was cracking up.
What is very strange is that the show I saw is not listed on ZappaShows.
There is no setlist.
Also very stange is that neither an audience or soundboard tape has not seen the light
of day. (Unless it's being hoarded?)
I only remember bits and pieces of the show. The first half of the show opened
with Call Any Vegetable...the medley of Mothers "hits"...Would You Go All The
Way....Rudy Wants to Buy Yez A Drink....a long version of Chunga's Revenge.
I also remember them doing Happy Together and closing with King Kong.
Sound-wise it was fantastic! Zappa's guitar was extrmely LOUD but crystal clear.

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"The largest land mammal is the absent mind" (Don Van Vliet - 1971)

I was at the same that same set of shows on Thursday night.One of the guys with Little Princess Lights,(the light show guys in back up the little latter) used to tape at least one of the four nights each band would play.Thursday thru Sunday night.I've found some shows on the Zappateers site,so you might try there.Long time ago bro', I was 15.Good luck man.

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I'm getting larger as I walk away.

I was at the same that same set of shows on Thursday night.One of the guys with Little Princess Lights,(the light show guys in back up the little latter) used to tape at least one of the four nights each band would play.Thursday thru Sunday night.I've found some shows on the Zappateers site,so you might try there.Long time ago bro', I was 15.Good luck man. [/quote]

Cool! That was my first concert seeing Zappa and the first time I ever went to the Fillmore East.
I remembered another bit of the show. There was no encore. Instead, they all came out on stage and threw little boxes of prunes at the audience. I was 15 too. Thanks! I'll check out Zappateers.

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"The largest land mammal is the absent mind" (Don Van Vliet - 1971)

KAPTKIRK sez:
I was at the Fillmore West,not east! Same year,different coast.Flo & Eddie added just the right amount of comedic value,to make it palitalble for the hippies.Anyway,same-same as BGP ran things pretty much the same.Little Princess lights guys did both coasts back then.Back east you would have 2 shows a night depending on the crowd.We had Thursday thru Sunday,each night was one long show.Start 7-8 end 2 a.m. bar closes people wander out or sometimes the bands would play all night.Then once in awhile The Dead and most of the local bands would fill in for the big english bands that had bailed for some reason and they lived nearby so it would turn into an all night thing.


FZ & MOI,played/did the same sorta thing for us,only more tailored for SF as only FZ could,ya know? No two shows the same! Yowser,yowser,yowser! Diss the dirty hippies.Man he was funny and such a sardonic/ironical sence of humor,that alot of putdowns/asides were over all the stoners heads.It would be so smokey with weed it's a wonder FZ didn't get stoned.But,back then everyone smoked cigeretts,like it was cool so all that mixed in,not to mention the incence burners,there definetly was a purple haze thing going on.The LP light guys would play the lights off the smoke and complain that it ruined they're light show,when it really made it look better.Now they got smoke machines etc. Who'd a thunk it ya,know? Good luck.

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I'm getting larger as I walk away.

KAPTKIRK sez:
I was at the Fillmore West,not east! Same year,different coast.Flo & Eddie added just the right amount of comedic value,to make it palitalble for the hippies.Anyway,same-same as BGP ran things pretty much the same.Little Princess lights guys did both coasts back then.Back east you would have 2 shows a night depending on the crowd.We had Thursday thru Sunday,each night was one long show.Start 7-8 end 2 a.m. bar closes people wander out or sometimes the bands would play all night.Then once in awhile The Dead and most of the local bands would fill in for the big english bands that had bailed for some reason and they lived nearby so it would turn into an all night thing.


FZ & MOI,played/did the same sorta thing for us,only more tailored for SF as only FZ could,ya know? No two shows the same! Yowser,yowser,yowser! Diss the dirty hippies.Man he was funny and such a sardonic/ironical sence of humor,that alot of putdowns/asides were over all the stoners heads.It would be so smokey with weed it's a wonder FZ didn't get stoned.But,back then everyone smoked cigeretts,like it was cool so all that mixed in,not to mention the incence burners,there definetly was a purple haze thing going on.The LP light guys would play the lights off the smoke and complain that it ruined they're light show,when it really made it look better.Now they got smoke machines etc. Who'd a thunk it ya,know? Good luck. [/quote]


Oops! I thought you meant the Fillmore East. I remember Flo & Eddie were just as goofy
when they were in The Turtles. Frank was just as upset over the audience at the Fillmore
East. Making fun of them the whole night. "hey...I know...why don't you entertain us for
awhile." You're lucky. I would've loved to have seen shows at the Fillmore West.
I got the feeling the Dead were sort of like the house band back then in SF?
Never did see the Dead or any of the other Bay area bands.

I vaguely remember some sort of light show, but it wasn't really trippy.
The same guys that did the lights there did a light show when I saw Jimi
in '68 at Philharmonic Hall. There was a lot of smoking cigs and weed.
The smell of weed in something you don't forget.
Zappa was drinking cans on beer on stage, which I thought was odd.
Those early light shows and effects were great though, even if they were low-tech.

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"The largest land mammal is the absent mind" (Don Van Vliet - 1971)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTh5AaXiaaI


Not in one week, anyway.

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Stay with me flagrantly and we'll have ecstasy for all eternity.

If there is no circulating tape of a show, we can't include a setlist in FZShows. Not many shows from 1970 circulate.

^^^
Wow thats cool..i've always loved the 1970 band, a concert from them is #1 on my vault release wishlist. thankfully there are a couple really good sounding boots of the band out there to keep me satiated in the meanwhile.

You say Ian switched main horns from tenor to soprano saxophone in 1970. I'm not sure that he played either onstage - in the Paris film footage you can briefly glimpse him with an alto (too small to be a tenor, not small enough to be a curved soprano) and in all the live stuff I've ever heard from the Flo & Eddie era, Ian's sax solos sound like "alto" to me.

I think after all these years some people are still getting adjusted to the sound-processors the various Zappa horns used (?!) Scott Parker made a few what's-that-horn? mistakes in his books, like claiming Ian played tenor on the Stockholm Cosmik Debris (never seen a bass clarinet before, yeah right!).

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

Any chance ZPZ would add a Flo and Eddie to the band and headline some Mothers stuff?

I actually find the Mudshark stuff fascinating. I lmao every time I listen to it.

F&E sat in with them once a year or two ago.

Very slim to none.Never say never though.

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I'm getting larger as I walk away.

No problem. You won't ever get drunk from what Americans call "beer".

Thinman

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Active forum member since 2005 - R E T I R E D from this forum in 2013

Even us Canadians laugh at what Americans call 'beer'.

You mean the gig where JL Ponty played too? I think when I see Ian his horn is clearly straight: as expected from soprano. Also, I've listened to majority of his Nov 1970 to Oct 1971 solos and in terms of playing range it does sound like a sop to me, not a single note goes lower than the concert Ab3 (the low B flat on soprano). Conversely, on both the early Flo and Eddie shows (like the Uddel netherlands gig) as well as "Chunga's Revenge" studio version there are a fair bit of low notes too low for an alto (lowest note is the concert Db3, whereas the tenor's lowest note is Ab2 concert-pitch wise). Thus on the CR LP Ian in fact played electric tenor with a wah wah pedal. A September 1970 article about the unreleased test pressing of CR confirms that Ian plays tenor.

To Polydigm: Ian could play quite several saxophones and clarinets. He was never credited with a soprano on a Zappa album, but I'm sure the sop is audible on both "Peaches" (the section where the first horn parts emerge) and "Little Umbrellas" (main theme). Ian Underwood however is credited with soprano for one of the tracks on the Hugh Cornwall album with a Captain Beefheart member that was done in 1979-80.

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Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

Hey Ed, I didn't say anything, in fact, I know not a lot. But, I know that many sax players play a variety of saxes. Clearly, to me anyway, Ian Underwood defining himself as playing alto sax means that was the one he cut his teeth on. I'm pretty sure that's an Alto Sax on Whips it Out and I'm equally sure that's a Tenor Sax on Gumbo.

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

We're getting better with all the micro-brewers popping up all over da place.Some of the stuff gets up to 13-15% alcohol.Much better than the 3.2 beer that Bud & Coors sell.I consider that water beer.Snap! Hate it! Sierra Nevada has a good porter and a passable ale.I like to chew on Sierra Nevada Porter now and then and nothing beats Anchor Steam or Porter.In general though,most U.S. beers suck.

This Blue Labbots for you!

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I'm getting larger as I walk away.

For years I thought FZ would have kept the Flo and Eddie MOI together well into 1972 and perhaps even beyond. Now I have found some evidence, however, to suggest that the Wazoo project was in the pipeline nonetheless. Or at least something in the vein of Hot Rats. As well as the return of the brass instruments.

http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/videogra ... #Pop2Dec11

There exists an interview for French TV late 1971 and apparently Zappa's plans for the future then included:



Which roughly translates as:

"Frank Zappa wishes to add a horn section to the Mothers of Invention again in order to perform more interesting compositions".

http://www.afka.net/Articles/1971-12_Ra ... heatre.htm

An interview briefly before the ill-fated Rainbow Theatre concert, Zappa says he plans another Hot Rats type album by the end of 1972.

Now, it is quite likely that without that arsehole climbing onstage to attack Zappa, the composer would have recorded a Hot Rats type of an album, but I am not so certain if it would have turned out exactly as "Grand Wazoo" or "Waka/Jawaka". It would have included "Big Swifty" and "The Grand Wazoo", as the main themes were already on paper by late 1971. But "The Grand Wazoo" could have easily been "Think It Over" with Flo and Eddie singing.

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Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

there's plenty of REAL beer here you idiot.

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Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

From my memory, at that Stockholm 1973 show, Ian only plays clarinets (bass and "normal") as well as some synthesizer parts.

I share polydigm's view on alto versus tenor on "whip" and "Gumbo", respectively.

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"Everybody in this room is wearing a uniform, and don't kid yourself" - FZ
http://www.myspace.com/kirnehness

To rub salt in the wound, I would say that the best beer I have tasted in the US were some non-alcoholic ones. And that is not said to be sarcastic or anything. Normally, non-alcoholic beer taste like shit, but in Boston I got some which were very "authentic" and rich in flavor.

I will now go die in a bus fire

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"Everybody in this room is wearing a uniform, and don't kid yourself" - FZ
http://www.myspace.com/kirnehness