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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:53 am 
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We have now some stuff from the early 80's 72 too, what next?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:33 pm 
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'73 band w/ Ponty
Garrick Theatre stuff from '67
Hot Rats Band '69
'76 Band w/ Bianca
'75 band w/ Norma Jean Bell
And of course Sound & the Fury & Dance Me This, plus more Studio Z-era stuff (like the rest of the Teenage Malt Shop recordings).
For starters.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:44 pm 
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There's so much stuff, we'll never hear it all.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:41 pm 
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Agreed on all that pygmy stallion mentioned, plus these too:

A complete BONGO FURY show

Captain Beefheart's "Bat Chain Puller"

200 Motels Live premiere w/Mothers + Zubin Mehta/orchestra

Any early '70 MOI show with the lineup of Ray Collins, Billy Mundi, Aynsley Dunbar, Jeff Simmons, etc. I'm guessing this lineup played Flo/Eddie material with Ray singing before they joined? :?

Any show where FZ/Hendrix played together, likely '67. You know there's probably stuff only Gail, Joe, Dweezil know about. I wonder if they'd have to deal with the Hendrix estate if there was such a release.

A '69 MOI show with Rahhsan Roland Kirk sitting in.

The '81 Ritz show with Al Dimeola. I'm sure Al has changed his mind by now.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:11 pm 
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Al has reheard Clownz on Velvet and can't remember why he was so embarresed by it. Now I must find the source of this info but im 100% positive.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:19 pm 
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How about an 88' band dvd? The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life:The DVD!! 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:10 pm 
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something we haven't even heard of before would be nice.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:19 pm 
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J.C.GreasyVII wrote:
How about an 88' band dvd? The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life:The DVD!! 8)


The Best Band You Never Saw In Your Life! 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:10 pm 
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An album of Frank's farts mixed to stereo. I know at least one guy who'd buy it...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:46 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
something we haven't even heard of before would be nice.


Yes! 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:48 pm 
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pygmy stallion wrote:
'73 band w/ Ponty



I want that one 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:07 am 
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Zut_boF wrote:
pygmy stallion wrote:
'73 band w/ Ponty



I want that one 8)


Me too.

We just had a '72 release. Wouldn't it be cool if all the valternative releases were in yearly order...

A release from '73 band with Ponty and Bruce Fowler, one from '74 band (another full concert by this band wouldn't go astray), then one from '75 band with Beefheart, then one from '76 band with Bianca & Eddie Jobson, then '77 band with Ed Mann, then '78 band with Ike and Denny (cause Denny rocks), then 79 band which apparently has some superb guitar playing, and we've already got a '80 concert but err... yeah... you get the idea...

After saying that I'd love to hear one from 1970 band and 1971 band.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:28 am 
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While the possibility for projects is quite large. My guess based on Official Commentary would hopefully be arround 100 Projects but for starters as a follow up to the existing Vaulternative and Zappa Records Releases, at this point in time I just happen to be thinking about the Full Concert and Lecture from Mt St. Mary's College in 1963.

The Program included:

- piece no. 2 of visual music for jazz ensemble and 16 mm projector (1957)
- piano pieces from 'opus 5'
- collage one, for string instruments
- two fragments of prepared tape for 'opus 5'
- 'opus 5' for piano, tape recorder and multiple orchestra (full blown)
discussion with the audience

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FZ "Read It And Weep"
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Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:57 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
While the possibility for projects is quite large. My guess based on Official Commentary would hopefully be arround 100 Projects but for starters as a follow up to the existing Vaulternative and Zappa Records Releases, at this point in time I just happen to be thinking about the Full Concert and Lecture from Mt St. Mary's College in 1963.

The Program included:

- piece no. 2 of visual music for jazz ensemble and 16 mm projector (1957)
- piano pieces from 'opus 5'
- collage one, for string instruments
- two fragments of prepared tape for 'opus 5'
- 'opus 5' for piano, tape recorder and multiple orchestra (full blown)
discussion with the audience


Do you think they have it in the vault?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:17 am 
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Zut_boF wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
While the possibility for projects is quite large. My guess based on Official Commentary would hopefully be arround 100 Projects but for starters as a follow up to the existing Vaulternative and Zappa Records Releases, at this point in time I just happen to be thinking about the Full Concert and Lecture from Mt St. Mary's College in 1963.

The Program included:

- piece no. 2 of visual music for jazz ensemble and 16 mm projector (1957)
- piano pieces from 'opus 5'
- collage one, for string instruments
- two fragments of prepared tape for 'opus 5'
- 'opus 5' for piano, tape recorder and multiple orchestra (full blown)
discussion with the audience


Do you think they have it in the vault?


I would not be surprised if this particular event was allready baked and trasnfered where the Audio could even at thsi very moment be ready for a project if and when the ZFT make such a decision. Now with video included as part of the original performance who knows if the exact video Frank used still exists in it's initial viewing reel. He may have chopped it up for another project. My memory tells me possibly some of the G-Spot Tornado Video From Hell footage may have used some of the same film. If so it may be tough to exactly put it together the same way it was shown with some working digital Audio master. Though this does seem like a project that lends itself to Multimedia sometimes things don't remain the way they once were.

Purely speculation for I never completed Phase II of a Joe Travers interview that included a question regarding the feasability of Mt. St Mary's. Joe and I never got to discuss it or have any correspondence whatsoever on the topic so honestly I have no info whatsoever. Purely speculation, but let's just say that the ZFT already have a project plan for this in the works. Once again purely speculation on my part. No inside information whatsoever but do I remember Gail at one point asking for photos somehow related to this performance? Hmmmm ....If so that's not inside information that is just expanding on a long ago thought and adding how Zappa Wazoo was produced as a basic model. Who knows how much materials are laying arround the Vault on this event. Concert Program, Media Reviews, the actual Film that accompanied live performace. Any pre-show documentation Frank may have made but Zappa Wazoo and FZ:OZ does show us that the ZFT have reached out to fans to complete help with the project be it by AUD or something for the art work.

While the Audio master would be some 1963 Live event recording or a KPFK Radio master looking at how well the ZFT did with Wazoo I see that fans are once again opening their eyes and ears to just what can be done with an old 2 track master. Some of these project are quite unique.

Imagine if you will a project similar to Zappa Wazoo representing the Mt. St. Mary's Concert. Who knows there very well just may be another fan with a ticket stub or an old venue photo that makes it into the project booklet/liner notes.

Here is more info from the Information is Not Knowledge Zappa fan based website.

The Experimental Music Of Frank Zappa
Mount St. Mary's College
Sunday, May 19, 1963
Broadcast by KPFK


http://www.globalia.net/donlope/fz/radio/1963_KPFK.html

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:49 am 
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Great example, Trendmonger!!!!
Another that would be similar and a different period would be the Royce Hall shows in September, '75 and the very next in this list, also a helpful tho incomplete list of potential vault recordings.
Because as you aptly pointed out T, there could be so many things in the vault that the rest of us out here on the outside have no idea about, at all, despite decades of zealous community-building efforts in memorabilia and music and what-not of all sorts, legal and otherwise. Because the music is so great. But we just don't know out here. Until they tell us.

Like just last week Mrs Gail Zappa came on here in the forum and recalled the requesting of Don Van Vliet for his mother Sue to get a pepsi. Conjecturally remembering stories and anecdotes and outlook that the rest of us out here have no idea, can't even guess about.
But y'know, the ZFT could release a dozen DVD's of the '88 tour before they let go, say, of the Roxy DVD, and I wouldn't be bothered in the slightest 8)

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 Post subject: more vault stuff
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:44 am 
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Aside from the many excellent suggestions, here are a few more unreleased gems that may be of interest to some of you:

Blood on The Canvas with Eric Bogosian

"Mo' Mama" - the unreleased guitar solo featured in the FZ Guitar Book

"Persona Non Grata" - the unreleased guitar solo that served as the basis for "Sinnister III"

You Are What You Is - perhaps a special edition featuring all of the new drum tracks played by Chad Wackermann (this one would probably take a little work to put together)

The studio version of the Groupie Routine as performed by the MOI with Flo & Eddie (bootleg tapes exist)

Mother Mania on CD

I'd also like to the see the iTunes / FZ AAAFNRAA Birthday Bundle become an annual thing!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:18 pm 
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Collected History and Improvisations of the Mothers of Invention - original version.

Complete sessions for Hot Rats, Sleep Dirt, Studio Tan, Orchestral Favorites.

'73 Ponty era concert and/or studio sessions.

'67 live show.

'88 full show and rehearsals.

'75 Bongo Fury show.

Way too many choices...........


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 Post subject: Re: more vault stuff
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:30 pm 
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gnits_wreck wrote:
Aside from the many excellent suggestions, here are a few more unreleased gems that may be of interest to some of you:

You Are What You Is - perhaps a special edition featuring all of the new drum tracks played by Chad Wackermann (this one would probably take a little work to put together)


Umm, no. That would not be a good release. YAWYI is fine as is, thank you, thanks to Spence Chrislu for fixing this in '98. I can't believe anyone would want an '80s Wackerman-ized version of this :? . I don't like the one or two songs from YAWYI on "Have I Offended Someone" with the "newer" drums at all.
The original unreleased album aka Fred Zappelin/Crush All Boxes or whatever it was called would be a good release though, along with demos.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:40 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
something we haven't even heard of before would be nice.

No shit, Lumpy!

How about some new pieces????

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:53 pm 
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'79
spring '80
'76 with Bianca
the Vaudeville band
'88
'88 again
'88 again and again and again
'84 !

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:11 pm 
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Tinseltown_Banana wrote:
'79
spring '80
'76 with Bianca
the Vaudeville band
'88
'88 again
'88 again and again and again
'84 !


I think we have enough from 88 no?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:45 pm 
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punknaynowned wrote:
Like just last week Mrs Gail Zappa came on here in the forum and recalled the requesting of Don Van Vliet for his mother Sue to get a pepsi. Conjecturally remembering stories and anecdotes and outlook that the rest of us out here have no idea, can't even guess about.


I remember Frank Zappa telling that story


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:12 pm 
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Zut_boF wrote:
Tinseltown_Banana wrote:
'79
spring '80
'76 with Bianca
the Vaudeville band
'88
'88 again
'88 again and again and again
'84 !


I think we have enough from 88 no?


We don't have enough of anything!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:23 pm 
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There's so much of it that is interesting about the 1973 Ponty era tour that it's a shame that this live band is so under-represented on the live releases (just one measly track on YCDTOSA volumes that just showcases Frank's voice with backing from George, Ralph and Tom, and not the awesome front line of horns and violin).

There are many reasons why release a February-September 1973 era show ASAP. I'll name ten.

1. Unique medley of Ex4/Dog Breath (instrumental)/DB Vars./Uncle Meat!
2. Another unique medley, which consists of Mr. Green Genes, King Kong and Chunga's Revenge. As an aside, all the "Green Genes" versions released to date are slow to mid-tempo. A fast "Genes" would be a real treat, my favorite versions being the 6-24-73 Sydney version with the sweet Ian alto sax solo (it's so insanely melodic it's almost an instant composition itself within that classic UM/HR piece), and a couple of months later, 8-26-73 with Ian playing another great solo, this time on bass clarinet.
3. Dupree's Paradise. FZ played great solos in that one! And I much prefer this piece with the 1973 era instrumentation.
4. "Fifty Fifty" as an instrumental, with varied solo format. See also #10.
5. Brown Shoes Don't Make It. This rivals the original Mothers version in terms of inventiveness and TTR band for its technical ability. The vocal interplay between George and Frank rules!
6. Early versions of the Roxy era pieces with added violin and woodwind parts. "Village of the Sun" with its unique melodic intro and George on lead vocals.
7. "Inca Roads" as a (mostly) instrumental, with only possible vocals being George's lounge lizard singing on the intro.
8. Another interesting variation on the "Farther O'Blivion" medley, replete with the "Join The March" intro, some more insane solos in "Bebop Tango" and the more swinging "Cucamonga".
9. Lots of solos from five excellent improvisers in the band: FZ, George, Ian, Bruce and Jean-Luc. No band had more gifted improvisers (and with so many varied instruments) than the 1973 band!
10. Even the Overnite/Apostrophe era tunes sounded interesting as played by this band live, replete with warts-n-all feel as well as added horn and violin parts that weren't either there or were obscured by the guitar-centric arrangements of the studio versions.


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