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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:31 pm 
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[quote author=andre_cholmondeley link=board=concerts;num=1126219101;start=15#25 date=09/11/05 at 00:04:47]Are there any web or YABB experts who can comment on the % possibilities going on here?? Any network/software people????<br><br>-was this an accident, just your normal everyday hard drive crash??<br><br>-was it a clumsy attempt to deep six some really wide-spectrum discussion of this complete and utter failure to pull the ZPZ tour off???<br><br>I had an expert web programmer say that it really looks like a purposeful thing. Any theories or facts, anyone ???<br><br><br>hmm. interesting coincidence, then.[/quote]"Tonight suspicions abound," André! Ranging from "poor maintenance caused a drive crash" to "willful destruction with a purpose." (And the major chatter about the "Z-P-Z Tour" is the #1 suspicion which would confirm your programmer's assessment. But it may be for yet some other reason it was done with intent.) All is total conjecture, no hard fact. It's just very suspicious where the web address first sent you after the crash -- not even to another YaBB index page which was enough to make me wonder if it was by design.<br><br>--Batchain ::)

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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:42 pm 
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I'm a bit skeptical of the whole "let's get rid of the z plays z" posts. I've seen some wicked shit written on here before about Gail. And she's never censored any of it. And I don't think she is dumb enough to believe that if the posts were deleted, that it would be a dead subject. From what I've read about YABB (especially version 1, which is what is running here), this is a very possible problem, if you are caught unware. Which is a totally different issue. I don't even know who administers the .com anymore (since I heard Keith is gone).<br><br>

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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:57 am 
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Yea Im kinda leaning over to software crash or some other issue... the "time of post" is all out of whack  ::)

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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:30 pm 
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[quote author=andre_cholmondeley link=board=concerts;num=1126219101;start=15#25 date=09/11/05 at 00:04:47]Are there any web or YABB experts who can comment on the % possibilities going on here?? Any network/software people????<br><br>-was this an accident, just your normal everyday hard drive crash??<br><br>-was it a clumsy attempt to deep six some really wide-spectrum discussion of this complete and utter failure to pull the ZPZ tour off???<br><br>I had an expert web programmer say that it really looks like a purposeful thing. Any theories or facts, anyone ???<br><br><br>hmm. interesting coincidence, then.[/quote]<br><br>Yeah, I don't know about everyone else but this smells *absolutely* fishy!  I have $50 in my hand that says this was DELIBERATE!  <br><br>[center]SILENCE THIS!<br>Image[/center]<br>

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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:32 pm 
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[quote author=Sebastiaan link=board=concerts;num=1126219101;start=15#28 date=09/11/05 at 04:32:50]<br><br>[center]"What do you think, Dweezil?"<br>"I think we'll put her memory back to june 2005, Diva"[/center][/quote]<br><br>[center]ROFL - That is *TOO* funny![/center]<br>

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 Post subject: re: what happened here?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:05 pm 
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[quote author=andre_cholmondeley link=board=concerts;num=1126219101;start=15#25 date=09/11/05 at 00:04:47]...<br>-was this an accident, just your normal everyday hard drive crash??<br><br>-was it a clumsy attempt to deep six some really wide-spectrum discussion of this complete and utter failure to pull the ZPZ tour off...[/quote]<br>my 50 bucks is on a website upgrade gone bad...why would the forever-unmoderated fz forum get censored now after 3 years of fairly consistent slagging, complaining, porn posting, newbie bashing, gail bashing etc. <br>[hr]<br>[table][tr][td][quote author=admin/gz link=board=general;num=1102502984;start=0#1 date=dec-04][center]public surface announcement:[/center]We appreciate Warren Cuccurrullo's membership and in view of that <br>we have elected to give you all another head's up.  This forum <br>is meant to accommodate all who enter here, including those <br>who have not yet reached various maturities...[tt] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [/tt][/quote][/td][td] <-- offending post <br>was not deleted/edited[/td][/tr][tr][td]<br><br>[quote author=admin/gz link=board=legends;num=1045083957;start=45#49 date=oct-04]...It is also untrue that I sit up nights dreaming of ways to hurt you.  <br>If this is your idea of a good time, it's certainly your Forum...<br>Kisses,<br>gz  ...[tt] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [/tt] [/quote][/td][/tr][/table]

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 Post subject: Re: what happened here?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:27 pm 
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[quote author=slime.oofytv.set link=board=concerts;num=1126219101;start=30#33 date=09/12/05 at 00:05:43]<br>my 50 bucks is on a website upgrade gone bad...why would the forever-unmoderated fz forum get censored now after 3 years of fairly consistent slagging, complaining, porn posting, newbie bashing, gail bashing etc. <br>[hr]<br>[table][tr][td]<br>[/td][td] [/td][/tr][tr][td]<br><br>[/td][/tr][/table][/quote]<br><br>...php won't allow you to upgrade unless you backup...<br>I'm working with phpbb forums everyday...<br>unmoderated you say, but only the administrator can upgrade, and if he/she was offended by the ZpZ cancelled post they could delete the thread *pop* just like that.....<br><br>this is a rather huge website, the Zappa webguy could have had a crash on the whole server, which means www.zappa.com would have been down completely.<br>then again, there's news and info on the Zappa.com site that have been added after 13.June ... but no posts on the forum after 13.June ?<br><br>it smells funny though if the Zappa webguy takes backup every other month!?! of all the forums I administrate we take this backup every night, and thats forum with less than half the members present here !!<br><br>well ..... just my 2c


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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:44 am 
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[quote author=Dr.Including link=board=concerts;num=1126219101;start=30#35 date=09/12/05 at 01:43:29]Didn't Joe Travers mention a big relaunch of zappa.com in that "Read  it and weep" interview ?[/quote]<br><br>correct, but you wouldn't loose any information from doing that.<br>The only way is if the server had a major crash, and you take the forum/server back to a Restore point, loads a backup.<br><br>a new server means only to move Folders from one computer to another.<br><br>but I guess the forum information is still available, just do a search on one of those webarchive engines !  :)


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 Post subject: Re: what happened here?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:11 am 
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[quote author=slime.oofytv.set link=board=concerts;num=1126219101;start=30#33 date=09/12/05 at 00:05:43]<br>my 50 bucks is on a website upgrade gone bad...why would the forever-unmoderated fz forum get censored now after 3 years of fairly consistent slagging, complaining, porn posting, newbie bashing, gail bashing etc. <br>[hr]<br>[table][tr][td]<br>[/td][td] <-- offending post <br>was not deleted/edited[/td][/tr][tr][td]<br><br>[/td][/tr][/table][/quote]<br><br>Yes, but I'd say that lately it's been at an all-time high and it's over a cause that they can't dispute!  And as far as missing "random" chunks, couldn't they have just taken out a chunk here / taken out a chunk there?  It's not like all acts of rage are always completed with exact precision.  Maybe someone who didn't know what they were really doing just deleted some huge chunks in time to take care of the majority of the issue while maintaining some state of anonymity.  Ok, sounds like crazy talk but at this point of non-communication from the ZFU camp, I'd expect no less.  Remember the tale of GZ finding that she had hundreds of e-mails in her Inbox and telling someone to just delete them all for her?<br><br>[center] :o[/center]

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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:53 pm 
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From a technical and economic standpoint, it looks like somebody just wiped this thing to me.  Look, there are still a lot of folks holding on to their tickets for shows that aren't going to happen.  Or the shows have been 'rescheduled' but the personnel who were supposed to be on the stage, whose names were on the posters and ads, those people are not booked for the performances. It looks like an effort to just wipe out the historical record of the way the rip-off/rude negligence/fraud was discovered.  In case anyone who's thinking about buying 'future' ZPZ tix should just dip into this site for information on participants, etc.  <br><br>And it will work, too.  It's old news here.  The concerts were sold all over Europe and England before the personnel advertised were even hired.  It became obvious that we ticketholders had been sold a bill of goods, and eventually the ZFT officially cancelled/postponed/whatever the ZPZ tour.  If you're still holding on to those tickets, well, you must not need the money.  <br><br>Whether or not the Zappa gang is planning on sending out THIS tour, they probably want their options for future such tours to be firmly in place, and would like to sucker us in to buying THOSE tickets in advance, too.  So, best not to leave threads around that pretty much show the negligence and fraud perpetuated by the organizers of this year's fiasco.  Not a simple cancellation, but the fact that the artists weren't hired when the tickets were sold.  That gets me pissed.  <br>I expect no better the next time.  <br><br>Those of us who read the earlier information won't be affected by this, but it does completely erase the record for people who might be checking out the tour when it next gears up its selling wheels.  Gad.  Gag.<br><br>No huge conspiracy, just a little simple editing for PR purposes.  Probably the Noble bunch didn't want this trail of tears documented any more than the Zappas did.


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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:01 pm 
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[quote author=CasuallyYours link=board=concerts;num=1126219101;start=30#38 date=09/12/05 at 20:53:54]From a technical and economic standpoint, it looks like somebody just wiped this thing to me.  Look, there are still a lot of folks holding on to their tickets for shows that aren't going to happen.  Or the shows have been 'rescheduled' but the personnel who were supposed to be on the stage, whose names were on the posters and ads, those people are not booked for the performances. It looks like an effort to just wipe out the historical record of the way the rip-off/rude negligence/fraud was discovered.  In case anyone who's thinking about buying 'future' ZPZ tix should just dip into this site for information on participants, etc.  <br><br>And it will work, too.  It's old news here.  The concerts were sold all over Europe and England before the personnel advertised were even hired.  It became obvious that we ticketholders had been sold a bill of goods, and eventually the ZFT officially cancelled/postponed/whatever the ZPZ tour.  If you're still holding on to those tickets, well, you must not need the money.  <br><br>Whether or not the Zappa gang is planning on sending out THIS tour, they probably want their options for future such tours to be firmly in place, and would like to sucker us in to buying THOSE tickets in advance, too.  So, best not to leave threads around that pretty much show the negligence and fraud perpetuated by the organizers of this year's fiasco.  Not a simple cancellation, but the fact that the artists weren't hired when the tickets were sold.  That gets me pissed.  <br>I expect no better the next time.  <br><br>Those of us who read the earlier information won't be affected by this, but it does completely erase the record for people who might be checking out the tour when it next gears up its selling wheels.  Gad.  Gag.<br><br>No huge conspiracy, just a little simple editing for PR purposes.  Probably the Noble bunch didn't want this trail of tears documented any more than the Zappas did.[/quote]<br><br>[quote author=CasuallyYours link=board=concerts;num=1126219101;start=30#38 date=09/12/05 at 20:53:54]No huge conspiracy, just a little simple editing for PR purposes.  Probably the Noble bunch didn't want this trail of tears documented any more than the Zappas did.[/quote] I see your well-made points, CasuallyYours, even to the point where I almost think, "Yeah, that's probably it." But we'll never know for sure and I know Gail, Dweezil and the rest of the ZFT  have been villified and flogged without the vaguest hint of mercy and as cavalier and detached as they actually might be the kind of scoundrels they've been made out to be in this forum I don't at all believe they are.<br>My own strong hunch is that they're hurt, sore, are completely finished with being fucked over and not willing to take anymore shit thrown at them.<br>I'd really delight in seeing Gail respond to the next, "Gail is a fat, old, bitter cunt!", post or thread with, "Yes, you sure got that one right! After the last 12 years and all you shit-throwing fucking assholes and those who've given us all the screw jobs I really am a cunt, a damn proud cunt, and you can all go stuff your fucking asses with whatever's on hand until you explode!"<br>I'd piss myself laughing and shit my balls right out my ass very the second I saw something like that come from GZ! ;D<br><br>--Batchain ;)

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 Post subject: Re: what happened here?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:02 pm 
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[quote author=slime.oofytv.set link=board=concerts;num=1126219101;start=30#33 date=09/12/05 at 00:05:43]<br>my 50 bucks is on a website upgrade gone bad...why would the forever-unmoderated fz forum get censored now after 3 years of fairly consistent slagging, complaining, porn posting, newbie bashing, gail bashing etc. <br>[/quote]<br><br>if there was any conspiration or sabotage i don't see it coming from<br>a censoring admin. (aka ZFT) but from people who can't stand free speach<br>or think free speach mean talking whatever you wan't but with<br>moral restrictions, like not saying "bad words" or porn posting<br>or insulting, or think this is a political incorrect place, or don't want<br>other people to read what we write, i mean the same bush goverment did<br>after 9/11, or right now, not letting the press show photos or express what they think about the tragedys or who are responsable of them,<br>so i do think, and maybe i'm paranoid, that it's quite possible for<br>the goverment or other ultrafascist entities to pay to a hacker to<br>stop the people talking what they don't want other people to hear,<br>or do you think US goverment is really open to free speach without<br>any restrictions?

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 Post subject: Re: what happened here?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:01 pm 
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[quote author=amnesia link=board=concerts;num=1126219101;start=30#40 date=09/12/05 at 22:02:28]<br><br>if there was any conspiration or sabotage i don't see it coming from<br>a censoring admin. (aka ZFT) but from people who can't stand free speach<br>or think free speach mean talking whatever you wan't but with<br>moral restrictions, like not saying "bad words" or porn posting<br>or insulting, or think this is a political incorrect place, or don't want<br>other people to read what we write, i mean the same bush goverment did<br>after 9/11, or right now, not letting the press show photos or express what they think about the tragedys or who are responsable of them,<br>so i do think, and maybe i'm paranoid, that it's quite possible for<br>the goverment or other ultrafascist entities to pay to a hacker to<br>stop the people talking what they don't want other people to hear,<br>or do you think US goverment is really open to free speach without<br>any restrictions?[/quote] I don't think any of that's "paranoid thinking" at all. I'm not putting my bets on it but I'm not sure I'd want not to bet on it at all -- but this stuff was backed up enough to get it rolling again in only hours. If some neo-con fascist did manage to hack it they didn't blow the whole thing the way they could have.<br>I never see the hate sites get hacked at all. (Such as, http://www.resist.com the white supremacist "resistance" site ["White Aryan Resisance"] or http://www.godhatesfags.com the "Christian" site that advocates mass-execution of all gays.<br>Well, they might be better protected by governmenal interests.<br><br>--Batchain

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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:55 pm 
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I'm calling the Police ZFT=NOT FAIR<br><br>But they're all nice boys.

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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:06 am 
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But folks if it was deliberate whats to stop us starting the posts again, and then seeing if they take us off air after a few choice posts have been read and analyzed by the ZFT, personally i think to many of you have been reading conspiricy theory books, who was that on the grassy Knol.<br><br>most probable cause, major crash , no recent back up, oh dear fucked up again.<br><br>I know the ZFT have not been the most forthcoming with info and the like but some on here would have us believe they are resposible for everything that goes on in the hills area.<br>

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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:13 am 
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I actually thikn zft wiping the slate clean is pretty likely, and here's my reasoning for them censoring now when they have never demonstrated an interest before.  What happened after the ZPZ cancellation was on a scale never before witnessed on this site.  People had bitched and complained about ZFU for years, but this was the first time that people were saying in mass droves, fuck this, I no longer trust, or will pay for ZFT product.  and that's a big shift from the attitude previously.  Also, did anyone notice how many newbies popped up for one or two (or more)  posts in that thread to try to figure out what was going on with the tour?  Without hanging out here, or holding tickets at the few CHOICE venues kind enough to be forthcoming, these people would have no idea the tour was cancelled, and would continue to push tickets on their friends.   What was going on on that thread was definately damaging in a way to the ZFT's future business that makes sabotage entirely plausible in my mind.  Having said that, who the fuck knows!!!!    Why don't we ask them?   I'm sure they'll pony up an answer quickly!!!

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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:07 pm 
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Yeah, Noah, that's exactly what I tried to express. I'm a newbie who checked in originally to find out about the members of the ZPZ tour, as I had bought tickets to two British shows.  <br><br>No, I don't think it's any huge conspiracy. A simple deletion for PR purposes is done every day by radio stations, TV stations, and other promotions-heavy websites.  And the question that was asked,' what's to stop us from starting up a thread like that again?'...well, it's just not going to generate that much interest now. It's old news.  <br><br>I think that the Zappa family (and no, Gail is not a martyr to anyone) thought they could whip together a tour and sort of decide-along-the-way whom they would include as alumni guests, etc.  Only, these people, even tho they admired Frank immensely, know that Gail isn't Frank, and they also know that they have to have EVERYTHING ON PAPER or they'll get shafted.  Unable to pull off the con, she postponed/cancelled. Now, they may really be planning on touring next year.  Possible.  And, they would not want all those conversations, when fans were so confused and then alarmed and then PISSED, to be available to anyone doing a ZPZ search.  It's not a conspiracy, not an infringement on free speech. Geez, this whole arena exists to sell product via an active fanbase.  <br><br>Hopefully, they learned a lesson this time around and if they try it again, they'll let  public look in the poke before they sell the pig.


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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:57 pm 
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[quote author=Lumpy Gravy link=board=concerts;num=1126219101;start=45#47 date=09/16/05 at 20:47:11]<br><br>I sent an email to Gail last Saturday, asking her if the Forum would be restored. I got a reply the next day. <br>Here's what she wrote:<br>[/quote]<br><br>
Quote:
Yes. We want to and we could use some help and we will be looking to the fans that are already building sites without permission that have good ideas to volunteer.  What do you think? <br> <br>Music is the Best! <br> <br>gz
<br><br>Now she thinks she owns the internet!  ::)

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 Post subject: Re: What happened here?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:05 pm 
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Quote:
<br>Yes. We want to and we could use some help and we will be looking to the fans that are already building sites without permission that have good ideas to volunteer.  What do you think?<br> <br>Music is the Best!<br> <br>gz<br>
<br>If they want help from fans, why not ask? Why do I get the impression many fans have asked to help but have been summarily dismissed? <br><br>And do you need permission to create a fan site/forum for FZ? I honestly don't know. My guess is the answer is "no, unless you're sharing copyrighted work without permission."<br><br>Also, if you suck at providing quality info or a quality forum, why wouldn't people go to someone else who's better at it? Is choice bad?<br><br>"Music is the Best!" ...so long as you have permission to listen to it from the composer of said music's heirs. But you'll never have permission to play it, or to talk about it outside the permitted boundaries. <br><br>[center]<br>Image<br>[/center]

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