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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:24 am 
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I never said that FOH mixes sound amazing. Learn how to read.

Your analogy is still piss-poor. The musical performance is the burger. The fidelity of the mix is merely the presentation of the burger. Are you eating it in an opulent dining room or a cramped counter space? On fine china or paper plates? Regardless, the burger is still the same.

You confuse performance with replication/presentation. No wonder you no longer work as a chef.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:59 am 
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xxx

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:59 am 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
I never said that FOH mixes sound amazing. Learn how to read.

Your analogy is still piss-poor. The musical performance is the burger. The fidelity of the mix is merely the presentation of the burger. Are you eating it in an opulent dining room or a cramped counter space? On fine china or paper plates? Regardless, the burger is still the same.

You confuse performance with replication/presentation. No wonder you no longer work as a chef.

Well fine you stated Damn Good and arguing about King Crimson performances is not my idea of a good time.
Once again I think it is important to use artisan model in both performance and production.
It's a shame you tend to compartmentalize ZPZ into some lackluster or lifeless from of performance.
If that's your view I can understand why your diet consists of McDonalds Music Production Standards being Damned Good.
What is paramount is standards and how an artist can or can not maintain that.

I'll tell you this if I was going to open up a restaurant as the executive chef
I'd start with ZPZs performance standard ingredients to create a menu over anything any version of King Crimson
has delivered in the last 40 years. Now I really like King Crimson. I've seen them and tangent acts of the musicians of that musical tree
countless times in the last 30 years but it's just a different soup that I choose not to ingest all that frequently any more.

I'll take ZPZ be it if they deliver it on China or paper plates but damned
the presentation in every aspect is all about standards inspired by FZ himself.
Please do not try to bring FOH MIXes and Damned Good or whatever as a solution over Professional MIXed shows.
The ZPZ Son OF Roxy DVD Preview sounds Damn Good but I want DZ to MIX it.
I do not prefer some FOH MIX because it is fast food made inexpensive as possible.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:43 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
FalseDichotomy wrote:
I never said that FOH mixes sound amazing. Learn how to read.

Your analogy is still piss-poor. The musical performance is the burger. The fidelity of the mix is merely the presentation of the burger. Are you eating it in an opulent dining room or a cramped counter space? On fine china or paper plates? Regardless, the burger is still the same.

You confuse performance with replication/presentation. No wonder you no longer work as a chef.

Well fine you stated Damn Good and arguing about King Crimson performances is not my idea of a good time.
Once again I think it is important to use artisan model in both performance and production.
It's a shame you tend to compartmentalize ZPZ into some lackluster or lifeless from of performance.
If that's your view I can understand why your diet consists of McDonalds Music Production Standards being Damned Good.
What is paramount is standards and how an artist can or can not maintain that.

I'll tell you this if I was going to open up a restaurant as the executive chef
I'd start with ZPZs performance standard ingredients to create a menu over anything any version of King Crimson
has delivered in the last 40 years. Now I really like King Crimson. I've seen them and tangent acts of the musicians of that musical tree
countless times in the last 30 years but it's just a different soup that I choose not to ingest all that frequently any more.

I'll take ZPZ be it if they deliver it on China or paper plates but damned
the presentation in every aspect is all about standards inspired by FZ himself.
Please do not try to bring FOH MIXes and Damned Good or whatever as a solution over Professional MIXed shows.
The ZPZ Son OF Roxy DVD Preview sounds Damn Good but I want DZ to MIX it.
I do not prefer some FOH MIX because it is fast food made inexpensive as possible.


Thanks for proving once again that you are only a FZ/DZ fanatic and do not have the ability to truly appreciate any other music at all. I feel sorry for your narrow slice of life.

Artisan products are noteworthy for their personal creativity and detail. ZPZ is merely a computer-controlled lathe making table legs for the easily impressed.

And I will take Crimson over ZPZ any day. Fripp and company would shred them alive at thirty paces.

It would take a year to get served at your ZPZ-influenced restaurant. No thanks.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:29 am 
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Folks we are getting way off topic here. Trend wants high grade mixes and that's okay, but we still don't have an official update regarding our downloads. I'm sure word from zft would make some of us feel better. I just want to know when we might get them.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:09 am 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
FalseDichotomy wrote:
I never said that FOH mixes sound amazing. Learn how to read.

Your analogy is still piss-poor. The musical performance is the burger. The fidelity of the mix is merely the presentation of the burger. Are you eating it in an opulent dining room or a cramped counter space? On fine china or paper plates? Regardless, the burger is still the same.

You confuse performance with replication/presentation. No wonder you no longer work as a chef.

Well fine you stated Damn Good and arguing about King Crimson performances is not my idea of a good time.
Once again I think it is important to use artisan model in both performance and production.
It's a shame you tend to compartmentalize ZPZ into some lackluster or lifeless from of performance.
If that's your view I can understand why your diet consists of McDonalds Music Production Standards being Damned Good.
What is paramount is standards and how an artist can or can not maintain that.

I'll tell you this if I was going to open up a restaurant as the executive chef
I'd start with ZPZs performance standard ingredients to create a menu over anything any version of King Crimson
has delivered in the last 40 years. Now I really like King Crimson. I've seen them and tangent acts of the musicians of that musical tree
countless times in the last 30 years but it's just a different soup that I choose not to ingest all that frequently any more.

I'll take ZPZ be it if they deliver it on China or paper plates but damned
the presentation in every aspect is all about standards inspired by FZ himself.
Please do not try to bring FOH MIXes and Damned Good or whatever as a solution over Professional MIXed shows.
The ZPZ Son OF Roxy DVD Preview sounds Damn Good but I want DZ to MIX it.
I do not prefer some FOH MIX because it is fast food made inexpensive as possible.


Thanks for proving once again that you are only a FZ/DZ fanatic and do not have the ability to truly appreciate any other music at all. I feel sorry for your narrow slice of life.

Artisan products are noteworthy for their personal creativity and detail. ZPZ is merely a computer-controlled lathe making table legs for the easily impressed.

And I will take Crimson over ZPZ any day. Fripp and company would shred them alive at thirty paces.

It would take a year to get served at your ZPZ-influenced restaurant. No thanks.


You are clueless I have stated I have seen King Crimson and so many of the King Crimson Family Tree member performances
countless times in the last 30 years. Why would I spend my time and money for 30 years on close to 100 shows of King Crimson related artists.
Just because I am no longer seeing 5 King Crimson and or Tree Project shows annually does not define I no longer appreciate it.
What it does define is I no longer make it a main food substance. I just don't have the time or finances and it is low on my priority.
I am eager to get one of the King Crimson DVD-As but at this point with the holidays approaching with hopefully some Zappa merch
I am saving my personal entertainment finances for that, I stated that DVD-A interest and that within itself shows I am still interested in supporting them.
Keeping ZPZ at the top of my priority is my choice and Frank Zappa's music has and always will be a life source that is far a priority
over King Crimson.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:19 am 
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OMG...stop it you may never get these downloads and it could be like everyone else the ZFT may be having "Hard times USA". I am sure they intended to do this but, they realized for whatever reason they could not, so they gave everyone Chicago. You got something and they may still be able to complete the project as planned.

In the meantime it reminds me of that old Zen saying “don’t try and squeeze honey out of a monkey’s ass”.

:roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:22 am 
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Plook wrote:
OMG...stop it you may never get these downloads and it could be like everyone else the ZFT may be having
"Hard times USA".
I am sure they intended to do this but, they realized for whatever reason they could not, so they gave everyone Chicago. You got something and they may still be able to complete the project as planned.

In the meantime it reminds me of that old Zen saying “don’t try and squeeze honey out of a monkey’s ass”.

:roll:


Maybe you would like to start a "Hard times USA" topic.
Sounds interesting.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:47 am 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
Artisan products are noteworthy for their personal creativity and detail.
ZPZ is merely a computer-controlled lathe making table legs for the easily impressed.

And I will take Crimson over ZPZ any day. Fripp and company would shred them alive at thirty paces.

It would take a year to get served at your ZPZ-influenced restaurant. No thanks.


There you have it folks the cold hearted Zappa fan has reached a new level
where he states

"ZPZ is merely a computer-controlled lathe making table legs for the easily impressed"
.

If I may use this point in time to point out an exact crolation in his Frippian world.
Remember this is all coming from an ideology where Robert Fripp's students have paid to go to his school
so they are thrown in a room for 5 hours doing self indulgent pick meditation before
they even get a chance to learn to hold a specially designed triangle pick
and practice on end Fripp Picking Techniques. Yes now that you have spent a good part of a day sometimes two days mediating
on what it means to pick I Robert Fripp will teach you to pick exactly like me. Well this is fine if that is your goal but just what are your goals as a student.
Maybe you want to be a Robert Fripp table leg, maybe you don't.


I remember talking to one of Fripp's students at an Al DiMeola Concert back in the 90s where he felt the
adventure was a ripoff. He stated he was extremely optimistic going in but that was extremely disappointed because
he thought he was being groomed to become a lifeless Robert Fripp clone. The above is his story.
So there you have it Robert Fripp has not only helped make many table legs
but he has a lathe system of his own where some of the table legs are not even impressed with the
lathe and or results.

Now I can appreciate a really good Robert Fripp table leg every once in a while.
I've seen the California Guitar Trio many times but in some peoples world that is just another table leg
created by a computer controlled lathe. Let's all mediate on the guitar pick.

Image



"

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:57 am 
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I see all you can do trendy is to stay away from the subject at hand.
Where are the Frippin ZpZ downloads? Or how about a wee hint as to how its going? :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:13 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
I see all you can do trendy is to stay away from the subject at hand.
Where are the Frippin ZpZ downloads? Or how about a wee hint as to how its going? :mrgreen:


Very nice interjection, excuse me Bones has had me in the sick bay from over exposure to Fanaskeptasaureous.
In all sincerity I have not spoken to Dweezil since back in August at The Higher Ground in Burlington VT
but those Northern Winds of Vermont are still blowing strong.

While I am not at liberty to discuss the details of that conversation I want to interject some positive reinforcement
that the Downlaods, CDs & DVDs are a project plan that where I left that meeting I remain 100% confident as I ever had been
on these projects. Halloween coming and going does not change my optimism.

So all these ZPZ & FZ project plans we know what the traditional formats, delivery systems and promotional tools the ZFT
have used but in the changing times of not only global economic uncertainty and but also Free As The Wind Ideologies
possibly placing a stranglehold on feasibility of 5 projects a year I can only ponder how moving the project forward
could be as many businesses a bit more of a conservative approach. Regardless of what speculator weight factor we as fans place
in the conservative approach until all is revealed I think I can tell you some new and unexpected things are on the way.
Hint think outside the box.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:23 pm 
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Anecdotal disappointment from one Guitar Craft student does not invalidate the entire teaching method, which goes far beyond just holding the pick a certain way. Check out Fripp's diary to gain a better understanding of what really is taught at GC seminars.

Funny that you would decry people learning how to play in a similar fashion to Fripp, yet you cream your shorts when DZ has sublimated his own style and now is aping FZ's style.

You are so full of contradictions. Hilarious.

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Last edited by FalseDichotomy on Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:27 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
While I am not at liberty to discuss the details of that conversation


Did he or Gail make you sign a non-disclosure agreement?

And 5 projects a year is a tired, worn-out carrot on a stick that no one believes in. Give it a rest.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:20 pm 
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I want my download with cheese and ketchup, with fries on the side.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:17 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
I see all you can do trendy is to stay away from the subject at hand.
Where are the Frippin ZpZ downloads? Or how about a wee hint as to how its going? :mrgreen:


Very nice interjection, excuse me Bones has had me in the sick bay from over exposure to Fanaskeptasaureous.
In all sincerity I have not spoken to Dweezil since back in August at The Higher Ground in Burlington VT
but those Northern Winds of Vermont are still blowing strong.

While I am not at liberty to discuss the details of that conversation I want to interject some positive reinforcement
that the Downlaods, CDs & DVDs are a project plan that where I left that meeting I remain 100% confident as I ever had been
on these projects. Halloween coming and going does not change my optimism.

So all these ZPZ & FZ project plans we know what the traditional formats, delivery systems and promotional tools the ZFT
have used but in the changing times of not only global economic uncertainty and but also Free As The Wind Ideologies
possibly placing a stranglehold on feasibility of 5 projects a year I can only ponder how moving the project forward
could be as many businesses a bit more of a conservative approach. Regardless of what speculator weight factor we as fans place
in the conservative approach until all is revealed I think I can tell you some new and unexpected things are on the way.
Hint think outside the box.

So in other words you don't know,but would have us believe you are privy to plans that could be in a distant galaxy far,far away. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
That post is a complete cop-out. It is silly to make a claim that you have no intention of backing up. You really shouldn't comment on engineering if you have no idea how it is accomplished. If you like the results, that is one thing, but to claim that it is of the finest engineering standards when you really have no understanding of the topic is deceptive at best and just fabrication at worst.


I have worked as a chef in the finest restaurants using the finest ingredients
so while I am by no means a professional audio engineer I know well enough about
what it takes to deliver an artisan product.

FOH is basically a Dunkin' Doughnut, Pizza Hut, McDonalds.
It's not that I would never under any circumstance eat those fast foods
but what goes into artisan product and the slow food movement that is
way of life that is protecting regional artisan products and this is the same coloration.

The bands that can stand for a given level of artistic integrity be it in alive show
or a recording are showing you a slow music movement that separates itself
from this perpetuated free as the wind ideology that is strangling the feasibility
quotient of an artisan art-form.

You are what you eat.

Well, you clearly forgot, but the point was whether you would take on the challange to prove your statement that "DZs MIXes of ZPZs are a level of engineering that is unparalleled of anything ever done" and "the finest engineering standards".
You have blathered all over the place using your famous obfuscation technic, yet have not offered any proof that you even understand how engineering is accomplished, much less what would make it unparallelled or the finest.
You can like what you like, but it is still a poor writer who makes statements that he cannot back up in any reasonable way. So, I guess thats the end of that.
Happy cooking.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:08 pm 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
Anecdotal disappointment from one Guitar Craft student does not invalidate the entire teaching method, which goes far beyond just holding the pick a certain way. Check out Fripp's diary to gain a better understanding of what really is taught at GC seminars.

Funny that you would decry people learning how to play in a similar fashion to Fripp, yet you cream your shorts when DZ has sublimated his own style and now is aping FZ's style.

You are so full of contradictions. Hilarious.


You really don'' get it do you.
That computer-controlled lathe making table legs for the easily impressed is your ideology.
Personally I have no objections to what Robert Fripp is teaching if that is what is right for the individual.
It is all a play on your words where I learned from a specific student he was just not interested in becoming
a Robert Fripp computer-controlled lathe making table legs for the easily impressed so to speak.
That is all your ideology.

Learning a specific method is fine for example the Frank Gambale guitar picking method that Dweezil is using that is so much more
energy economical that really helps with learning and performing all those difficult marimba and keyboard parts
that DZ plays on the guitar that no guitarist in FZs bands including FZ ever played.
Dweezil is not playing like a Frank Gambale clone but he applies the methodology to Zappa's music.

For me I just found it amazing that a guitarist who was deeply into King Crimson and Robert Fripp
that once he was there under instruction started fearing his guitar tone becoming too
much of a Fripp Clone that from my perspective I easily plugged in and labeled with your ideology.

AS I said I quite enjoy some of those computer-controlled lathe making table legs for the easily impressed
Robert Fripp clones.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:16 pm 
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Arkay: "Let me address some of the things you said."

Trendmonger: "You don't get it. You're not the fanatic I am and think that everything Dweezil or Gail or Ahmet does is pure unadulterated genius. Bow before them!!!!!"

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:36 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
[
Well, you clearly forgot, but the point was whether you would take on the challange to prove your statement that "DZs MIXes of ZPZs are a level of engineering that is unparalleled of anything ever done" and "the finest engineering standards".
You have blathered all over the place using your famous obfuscation technic, yet have not offered any proof that you even understand how engineering is accomplished, much less what would make it unparallelled or the finest.
You can like what you like, but it is still a poor writer who makes statements that he cannot back up in any reasonable way. So, I guess thats the end of that.
Happy cooking.


Hey listen I don;t need to be a modern Neurosurgeon, leader in Psychology or even a social worker
to understand that the modern day medical profession and social service programs
in 2009 are doing a whole lot more for people who don't score a given level of aptitude on an exam.

There was a time when even in the United States of America if you had a child that did no score at a certain level of
aptitude the government would take the kid away to a secret facility whereby removing the inferior human being from Society.
It did not even stop there for that was only the beginning.
Ever hear of a 1934 film called Tomorrow's Children. Remember that low aptitude score I was telling about.
They would neuter the parents so that they could no longer produce these
so called inferior humans that were not fit for society at large. Yes lets sterilize the entire family. Eugenics.
Hitler may be what we remember but many countries were involved in Eugenics long before Hitler.

Eugenics - from 1920s USA to HITLERS Germany
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHeiVS87ydA

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:01 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Well, you clearly forgot, but the point was whether you would take on the challange to prove your statement that "DZs MIXes of ZPZs are a level of engineering that is unparalleled of anything ever done" and "the finest engineering standards".
You have blathered all over the place using your famous obfuscation technic, yet have not offered any proof that you even understand how engineering is accomplished, much less what would make it unparallelled or the finest.
You can like what you like, but it is still a poor writer who makes statements that he cannot back up in any reasonable way. So, I guess thats the end of that.
Happy cooking.


Hey listen I don;t need to be a modern Neurosurgeon, leader in Psychology or even a social worker
to understand that the modern day medical profession and social service programs
in 2009 are doing a whole lot more for people who don't score a given level of aptitude on an exam.

There was a time when even in the United States of America if you had a child that did no score at a certain level of
aptitude the government would take the kid away to a secret facility whereby removing the inferior human being from Society.
It did not even stop there for that was only the beginning.
Ever hear of a 1934 film called Tomorrow's Children. They would neuter the parents so that they could no longer produce these
so called inferior humans that were not fit for society at large. Yes lets sterilize the entire family. Eugenics.
Hitler may be what we remember but many countries were involved in Eugenics long before Hitler.

Eugenics - from 1920s USA to HITLERS Germany
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHeiVS87ydA

I wasn't asking for or about any of the above things and you know it. I asked you to back up your own words and you can't. Prove me wrong! Offer still open! (Scroll up if you forgot what we were talking about again.)

Otherwise, some notes...
Analogy is the weakest form of argument. As a journalist, you should know this.
Also, as a journalist, you should know the meaning of the word "artisan". You have mangled its meaning to be the same as "artist", which is a whole different word. Sure, they look similar. But, "artisan" is synonomous with "craftsperson". "Artist" is not. A carpenter is an artisan, yet few carpenters are noted for being artists.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:15 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
I wasn't asking for or about any of the above things and you know it.
I asked you to back up your own words and you can't. Prove me wrong! Offer still open!
(Scroll up if you forgot what we were talking about again.)


I am not looking to Sterilize each and every musical group that wants to give FOH
as a purchasable item but I want to make it clear that their is a different level of standards of engineering.
I would hope average everyday people can appreciate a level of standards and that FZs music deserves
such especially in a premiere offering.

As I had noted earlier the project itself is proof of itself.
Chicago #1 & Chicago #2 speak of itslef.
The rest of the Downloads, CDs & DVDs will speak for themselves.

The Trend today is to give a FOH Mix. It is quick but it is a MIX that was created
for the acoustic environment of a concert hall not the home environment. Additionally
things that may have not been apparent in the moment of the FOH MIX/Live Show
can be addressed after hearing the original source masters at a later date.

Now DZ was the first to project plan and begin this work in progress of an entire tour
where each show would be professionally MIXed. It is not a mater if Dweezil Zappa & TJ Helmerich
are the best Audio Engineers in the world. It's not a matter of 10 days or 10 years
but the concept of professional MIXing each and every show is a level of standards that is far superior to FOH.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:28 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
I wasn't asking for or about any of the above things and you know it. I asked you to back up your own words and you can't. Prove me wrong! Offer still open! (Scroll up if you forgot what we were talking about again.)

Otherwise, some notes...
Analogy is the weakest form of argument. As a journalist, you should know this.
Also, as a journalist, you should know the meaning of the word "artisan". You have mangled its meaning to be the same as "artist", which is a whole different word. Sure, they look similar. But, "artisan" is synonomous with "craftsperson". "Artist" is not. A carpenter is an artisan, yet few carpenters are noted for being artists.


As I had noted earlier the project itself is proof of itself.
Chicago #1 & Chicago #2 speak of itslef.
The rest of the Downloads, CDs & DVDs will speak for themselves.

The Trend today is to give a FOH Mix. It is quick but it is a MIX that was created
for the acoustic environment of a concert hall not the home environment. Additionally
things that may have not been apparent in the moment of the FOH MIX can be addressed
after hearing the original source masters.

Now DZ was the first to project plan an entire tour wher it would be
professionally MIXed. It is not a mater if Dweezil Zappa & TJ Helmerich
are the best Audio Engineers in the world but the concept of professional MIXing
each and every show is a level of standards that is far superior to FOH.

Well, that was a good try! Seriously, that was progress.
Some things to think about...
Unparallelled engineering is not what you are describing then. Maybe unparalleled project planning? You might try a phrase such as "Hey, those mixes sound great!", but in no way have you rationalized your statement about being a level of engineering that is unparalleled. As for even mentioning engineering, you can't make a judgement about "the finest engineering" and then use the results for your explaination of why it is the finest. Engineering is a process, and the answer to "why?" must include an understanding of what went on, not just whether the results were your favorite... and besides the results can have happened numerous ways... even by accident! Which would definately not make it a candidate for the finest.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:29 am
Posts: 5039
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
I wasn't asking for or about any of the above things and you know it. I asked you to back up your own words and you can't. Prove me wrong! Offer still open! (Scroll up if you forgot what we were talking about again.)

Otherwise, some notes...
Analogy is the weakest form of argument. As a journalist, you should know this.
Also, as a journalist, you should know the meaning of the word "artisan". You have mangled its meaning to be the same as "artist", which is a whole different word. Sure, they look similar. But, "artisan" is synonomous with "craftsperson". "Artist" is not. A carpenter is an artisan, yet few carpenters are noted for being artists.


As I had noted earlier the project itself is proof of itself.
Chicago #1 & Chicago #2 speak of itslef.
The rest of the Downloads, CDs & DVDs will speak for themselves.

The Trend today is to give a FOH Mix. It is quick but it is a MIX that was created
for the acoustic environment of a concert hall not the home environment. Additionally
things that may have not been apparent in the moment of the FOH MIX can be addressed
after hearing the original source masters.

Now DZ was the first to project plan an entire tour wher it would be
professionally MIXed. It is not a mater if Dweezil Zappa & TJ Helmerich
are the best Audio Engineers in the world but the concept of professional MIXing
each and every show is a level of standards that is far superior to FOH.

Well, that was a good try! Seriously, that was progress.
Some things to think about...
Unparallelled engineering is not what you are describing then. Maybe unparalleled project planning? You might try a phrase such as "Hey, those mixes sound great!", but in no way have you rationalized your statement about being a level of engineering that is unparalleled. As for even mentioning engineering, you can't make a judgement about "the finest engineering" and then use the results for your explaination of why it is the finest. Engineering is a process, and the answer to "why?" must include an understanding of what went on, not just whether the results were your favorite... and besides the results can have happened numerous ways... even by accident! Which would definately not make it a candidate for the finest.


When FOH has become the norm this level of standards using professional MIXing for all shows was unparalleled.
It seems Phish is now doing the same thing but Phish and ZPZ are entirely different animals.
Technology is always moving forward but it does not always mean technology advancements are applied.
FOH is a norm that is primarily a quick and easy way for many bands to make a buck.
They deserve to make money but when it is possible to go the extra yards the professional MIX
is a very special thing.

Soon I could see where bands do not even make studio albums even of home studios are a fairly ecomically feasible solution
to traditional large studio project plans. Maybe Bands want to spend non tour time doing other things away from a band.
They could rehearse new material at sound checks and record them live. It works fro certain types of bands.
It's totally against the hit record model but if bands can make these FOH albums
they can not wast time and sell new and old music instantly with little to no engineering costs.
I hope the industry can maintain standards and that artistic integrity models do not shrink
and get frozen like a McDonalds hamburger.

I expect a given level of engineering standards with Zappa projects and we have always gotten that be it FZ
or DZ. In the context of adhering to standards FZ & DZ have always been far above just about any band in the industry.
That is not to bunch everyone else in the industry into a lump of turds but Zappa's are the Mad Scientists spending unthinkable
hours in the studio setting the bar as high as it can get.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 13138
Location: Home of The Mondavi Center.
Harumph! Will we hear downloads ever,no matter how perfect they are? I still like to hear alot of stuff on records,its all we had when I found R&R & FZ! I think I can handle the fact that nothing is perfect. Thats why I listen to an old copy of Freak-Out. `Cuz I like it,like it,yes I do! 8)
Music is the Best! So when doe's ZFT release anymore "new" ZpZ or new Vault music? :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:29 am
Posts: 5039
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Harumph! Will we hear downloads ever,no matter how perfect they are? I still like to hear alot of stuff on records,its all we had when I found R&R & FZ! I think I can handle the fact that nothing is perfect. Thats why I listen to an old copy of Freak-Out. `Cuz I like it,like it,yes I do! 8)
Music is the Best! So when doe's ZFT release anymore "new" ZpZ or new Vault music? :mrgreen:


Well KAPT.KIIRK I think it's time for Trendmonger to make a Corbomite Maneuver.
Maybe I'll have a little of that delightful orange colored beverage called Tranya
and see if Balok knows what ZFT plans are.
Image

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Top
 Profile  
 
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