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 Post subject: ZPZ-to be or not to be?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:51 am 
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Seems to me that it just might be we saw ZpZ for the last time.Or have we? After the last "dates" that came up they're no mo' they became DZpZ for the fall & winter tour that ends Jan 16th 2010.
I would always go to see DZ,when close,I also like to see the other mothers to.Together? With DZ? Will it happen again? That is the Q.
So is ZpZ changing parts in their cast,or just the letters to DZpZ? :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:42 am 
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This is purely speculative, but my hunch is the ZFT is suing the ZPZ band members for performing Frank's music.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:17 am 
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GreenHocher wrote:
This is purely speculative, but my hunch is the ZFT is suing the ZPZ band members for performing Frank's music.


This is a great answer.

Maybe he's transitioning into doing his own thing again.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:34 am 
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I hate to be the unfunny guy on this subject, but the original concept was that DZ & AZ would perform their dad’s music with a core band of talented young musicians (as their father had). This would include special guests such as alumni the first tour had, the second tour intended to keep NMB and add RW as special guests, and NMB choose to leave that tour for whatever reason. Eventually AA choose to move on and RW also left for whatever reason, but all alumni were always introduced as special guests, the alumni were never band members in concept. The name Zappa Plays Zappa was intended to include family members but since the groove has been found and DZ has received the credit he deserves for his performances, it makes sense to add his easily identifiable first name to the band name, this could increase ticket sales and without those the show does not go on.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:51 am 
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Plook wrote:
I hate to be the unfunny guy on this subject, but the original concept was that DZ & AZ would perform their dad’s music with a core band of talented young musicians (as their father had). This would include special guests such as alumni the first tour had, the second tour intended to keep NMB and add RW as special guests, and NMB choose to leave that tour for whatever reason. Eventually AA choose to move on and RW also left for whatever reason, but all alumni were always introduced as special guests, the alumni were never band members in concept. The name Zappa Plays Zappa was intended to include family members but since the groove has been found and DZ has received the credit he deserves for his performances, it makes sense to add his easily identifiable first name to the band name, this could increase ticket sales and without those the show does not go on.


I could be way off here, but I'm not sure adding the name Dweezil is gonna increase ticket sales any more than the name Zappa itself. The only way they're gonna increase ticket sales at this point is either bring in some alum, do something really creative, maybe radically change up the now 4 year old selection of songs or possibly shelve this project for a while to build up more of a demand. Let's face it, not many artists tour each and every year (and for a reason).


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:24 am 
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I think the name change is fine for the uninitiated, both for search engine optimization and sales via Ticketmaster. It's great that a newbie can type 'Dweezil' into Ticketmaster and actually find the shows. I think it's unnecessary and counter-productive, however, to screw with a brand name they've been trying to build for 4 years.

The motivation behind the change is intriguing to me. Is it an ego stroke? Is it more rallying against the non-sanctioned tribute bands? (Looking at last night's e-mail, notice there are 3 copyright symbols in the new logo alone, a mention that it's presented by the ZFT, and even a shout out to Diva for taking the photo. Talk about territorial pissing. Gee, we had no idea the Real Zappas were putting on these shows.) Or, is the whole band fired and DZ's going to sit up there on a stool by himself playing Zappa Unplugged. Who'd know since there hasn't been an official update about anything in months.

ZPZ doesn't need alumni to be the best band in existence right now (which I believe they are), but they are crappy at marketing what they do have. Hell, I had my tickets for Baltimore purchased 3 days before they even announced the show on their own website. It's just kind of sad (and funny) that they keep wasting their time with silliness when we all know there's cool things suffering because if it.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:30 am 
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Can anyone post the email in question?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:05 am 
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I am hoping DZ gets together with Steve gadd, Dave samuels a couple of Fowler brothers with maybe Airto on percussion and perform some original charts.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:10 am 
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The Black Page Part 2 wrote:
Can anyone post the email in question?


Check out the graphic on myspace. Add tour dates and you've got the e-mail:

http://www.myspace.com/zappaplayszappa


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:26 pm 
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A reliable source has told me that DZ is going the Buckethead route. It'll be just him on stage with an I-pod for backing tracks. All vocals will be from "new" FZ build reels. That's what the vaultmeister has been so busy working on lately.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:32 pm 
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Fred_Zappelin wrote:
A reliable source has told me that DZ is going the Buckethead route. It'll be just him on stage with an I-pod for backing tracks. All vocals will be from "new" FZ build reels. That's what the vaultmeister has been so busy working on lately.



Well I saw Todd Rundgren do this at the Universal Amphitheater back in the mid 80’s when his band Utopia could not make the show, he had an amazing piece of equipment that played all the instruments and vocals while he sang and played guitar. Although we were let down that the band was not there it was a very good show and technically ahead of the times.

If something like this does occur I would still want to see the show, but FZ’s music has so many moving parts half the fun is watching the musicians make it all happen, not seeing Sheila Gonzalez would also be a huge let down (as well as the other band members).


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:17 pm 
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Whether to attribute it to ego or to a new marketing concept I'm sure DZPZ is basically the same as ZPZ. I do think they're at a bit of a crossroads now though. I'm seeing them for the fourth time this year (and the sixth time overall) in a few weeks and quite frankly it's time to come up with some new shit. Although I'm sure I'll enjoy the show no matter what, unless I see a dramitically different set-list my enthusiasm for future shows will drop considerably. Not to mention that I haven't jumped on the Ben Thomas bandwagon. Anybody who thinks Ben is an improvement over NMB or Ray is hallucinating. ZPZ burnout? Maybe. If P/O were playing nearby at this point on the same night as (D)ZPZ with both Ike and Ray (which they're not) I would choose seeing P/O. I hope (D)ZPZ blows my socks off with a new set list when I see them. The Roxy era stuff is great but it's time to visit some other corners of the catalog.

A new release would be cool too.

Or an update.

Or...


Last edited by KillUgly on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:26 pm 
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GreenHocher wrote:
This is purely speculative, but my hunch is the ZFT is suing the ZPZ band members for performing Frank's music.

Funny. If Dweezil doesn't eat his vegetables will Gail sue him. Oh, I forgot Dweezil's 40 years old and capable of making his own decisions. Funny again.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:44 pm 
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cozylittlefooties wrote:
Plook wrote:
I hate to be the unfunny guy on this subject, but the original concept was that DZ & AZ would perform their dad’s music with a core band of talented young musicians (as their father had). This would include special guests such as alumni the first tour had, the second tour intended to keep NMB and add RW as special guests, and NMB choose to leave that tour for whatever reason. Eventually AA choose to move on and RW also left for whatever reason, but all alumni were always introduced as special guests, the alumni were never band members in concept. The name Zappa Plays Zappa was intended to include family members but since the groove has been found and DZ has received the credit he deserves for his performances, it makes sense to add his easily identifiable first name to the band name, this could increase ticket sales and without those the show does not go on.


I could be way off here, but I'm not sure adding the name Dweezil is gonna increase ticket sales any more than the name Zappa itself. The only way they're gonna increase ticket sales at this point is either bring in some alum, do something really creative, maybe radically change up the now 4 year old selection of songs or possibly shelve this project for a while to build up more of a demand. Let's face it, not many artists tour each and every year (and for a reason).


The name "Dweezil Zappa" is not going to sell a whole lot of tickets. Dweezil never had much of a career as a solo artist or with his band Z (as much as I enjoyed some of those recordings and his abilites). He's playing the biggest venues of his life with ZPZ (unless he played some bigger ones backing Lisa Loeb). ZPZ or (D)ZPZ is successful because they are a GREAT tribute band of an artist who has some very devoted fans.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:02 pm 
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Plook wrote:
Fred_Zappelin wrote:
A reliable source has told me that DZ is going the Buckethead route. It'll be just him on stage with an I-pod for backing tracks. All vocals will be from "new" FZ build reels. That's what the vaultmeister has been so busy working on lately.



Well I saw Todd Rundgren do this at the Universal Amphitheater back in the mid 80’s when his band Utopia could not make the show, he had an amazing piece of equipment that played all the instruments and vocals while he sang and played guitar. Although we were let down that the band was not there it was a very good show and technically ahead of the times.

If something like this does occur I would still want to see the show, but FZ’s music has so many moving parts half the fun is watching the musicians make it all happen, not seeing Sheila Gonzalez would also be a huge let down (as well as the other band members).


I would go see this too if he was doing it in my town and it costs $10 to get in. I wouldn't pay $75.00 and drive 3 or more hours to see it and rent a motel like I have done for ZPZ. Todd possibly. Dweezil no.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:50 pm 
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cozylittlefooties wrote:
I could be way off here, but I'm not sure adding the name Dweezil is gonna increase ticket sales any more than the name Zappa itself. The only way they're gonna increase ticket sales at this point is either bring in some alum, do something really creative, maybe radically change up the now 4 year old selection of songs or possibly shelve this project for a while to build up more of a demand. Let's face it, not many artists tour each and every year (and for a reason).


You're not way off at all. Actually, you're dead on...

KillUgly wrote:
Whether to attribute it to ego or to a new marketing concept I'm sure DZPZ is basically the same as ZPZ.


...and so are you.

Fred_Zappelin wrote:
A reliable source has told me that DZ is going the Buckethead route. It'll be just him on stage with an I-pod for backing tracks. All vocals will be from "new" FZ build reels. That's what the vaultmeister has been so busy working on lately.


INSANE if true. :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:59 pm 
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Plook wrote:
Well I saw Todd Rundgren do this at the Universal Amphitheater back in the mid 80’s when his band Utopia could not make the show, he had an amazing piece of equipment that played all the instruments and vocals while he sang and played guitar. Although we were let down that the band was not there it was a very good show and technically ahead of the times.

If something like this does occur I would still want to see the show, but FZ’s music has so many moving parts half the fun is watching the musicians make it all happen, not seeing Sheila Gonzalez would also be a huge let down (as well as the other band members).


I know you are making an analogy and I don't want to distract from that, but maybe you are referring to the A Capella tour. This was a TR solo tour for an album that was done, as you probably know, using nothing but vocals processed to sound like every instrument in the band. Yer right, way ahead of his time.

Image

While I didn't see that tour live, I saw the next one and most tours afterward. If it was a Utopia tour, maybe he had his A Capella gear with him. I've seen him do several variations of this process, the best being in 1995 where he placed a tower in the middle of the audience with 3 lights on it. If the light was red only he controlled the sound. If yellow, he and 3 background singers had control. If green, audience members who had been given drumstick-type sample triggers were allowed to play along.
The point being that when TR played solo, there was always a point to it, he was reaching to do things that haven't been done before. Sure, in the 70s, he sometimes literally played live with a recorded track playing behind him, but that was only the beginning of the progression of his style. And really, the stuff on the recording was next to impossible to play live without a fleet of synth players using then primitive equipment. He always turned his shows into events of creation rather than simple performance without a band as Buckethead does. I've seen him too and he's impressive, but the parts of his show that are just him soloing to backing tracks are the most boring parts of the show imo. Perhaps he too will progress from there.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:19 am 
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same band, just tweaked the name. no solo with tapes stuff. c'mon


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:11 am 
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Ifi I can't say something nice, I won't say anything. But I'd really like to.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:45 am 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Plook wrote:
Well I saw Todd Rundgren do this at the Universal Amphitheater back in the mid 80’s when his band Utopia could not make the show, he had an amazing piece of equipment that played all the instruments and vocals while he sang and played guitar. Although we were let down that the band was not there it was a very good show and technically ahead of the times.

If something like this does occur I would still want to see the show, but FZ’s music has so many moving parts half the fun is watching the musicians make it all happen, not seeing Sheila Gonzalez would also be a huge let down (as well as the other band members).


I know you are making an analogy and I don't want to distract from that, but maybe you are referring to the A Capella tour. This was a TR solo tour for an album that was done, as you probably know, using nothing but vocals processed to sound like every instrument in the band. Yer right, way ahead of his time.

Image

While I didn't see that tour live, I saw the next one and most tours afterward. If it was a Utopia tour, maybe he had his A Capella gear with him. I've seen him do several variations of this process, the best being in 1995 where he placed a tower in the middle of the audience with 3 lights on it. If the light was red only he controlled the sound. If yellow, he and 3 background singers had control. If green, audience members who had been given drumstick-type sample triggers were allowed to play along.
The point being that when TR played solo, there was always a point to it, he was reaching to do things that haven't been done before. Sure, in the 70s, he sometimes literally played live with a recorded track playing behind him, but that was only the beginning of the progression of his style. And really, the stuff on the recording was next to impossible to play live without a fleet of synth players using then primitive equipment. He always turned his shows into events of creation rather than simple performance without a band as Buckethead does. I've seen him too and he's impressive, but the parts of his show that are just him soloing to backing tracks are the most boring parts of the show imo. Perhaps he too will progress from there.



Actually we bought tickets for a Utopia concert at the Universal in the mid 80's, I am not sure what year, we had seen Todd and/or Utopia many times. There was only a guitar and an unusual looking piece of equipment on stage…it had a lot of lights on it…lol. Todd came out said the band was unable to make the trip but he would still be performing , he said he had a machine with him that would play all the instruments except guitar which he would be playing and it would play all the background vocals but he would be singing his parts. He played for 11/2 to 2 hrs and it was excellent. I know of no other time that he had done this.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:58 am 
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"A Reliable Source" is the name he's given to one of the voices in his head.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:21 am 
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Adding Dweezil's name to this tour might be a way of increasing his personal recognition...maybe he's thinking of re-launching his solo career down the road (or just wants to make another record) and after such exposure with his name out prominent it might increase his fan base. I don't fucking know for sure but it's a thought.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:52 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
Ifi I can't say something nice, I won't say anything. But I'd really like to.

I reckon you just did, I reckon.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:07 am 
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KillUgly wrote:
Whether to attribute it to ego or to a new marketing concept I'm sure DZPZ is basically the same as ZPZ. I do think they're at a bit of a crossroads now though. I'm seeing them for the fourth time this year (and the sixth time overall) in a few weeks and quite frankly it's time to come up with some new shit. Although I'm sure I'll enjoy the show no matter what, unless I see a dramitically different set-list my enthusiasm for future shows will drop considerably. Not to mention that I haven't jumped on the Ben Thomas bandwagon. Anybody who thinks Ben is an improvement over NMB or Ray is hallucinating. ZPZ burnout? Maybe. If P/O were playing nearby at this point on the same night as (D)ZPZ with both Ike and Ray (which they're not) I would choose seeing P/O. I hope (D)ZPZ blows my socks off with a new set list when I see them. The Roxy era stuff is great but it's time to visit some other corners of the catalog.


To your point about Ben I hope they continue to evaluate the current band. I don't think it has to be an alumni singing to be good (although I admit I would prefer one of the originals in that roll) but I don't think Ben has the range to sing those songs well. His Inca Roads is awful, for example. He just can't hit the high notes. I also hope they're pursuing a replacement for AA. Still an awesome band, but there's definitely a void in the sound there now. Sheila rules, but a full time guy on the keys seems pretty critical for an accurate reproduction.

I'm confused about all the love P/O gets, however. I saw them in Cleveland last year, and although is was fun hearing Ike sing live, it was really disappointing compared to any of my 8 ZPZ experiences. Maybe I caught them on an off night, but the band was very mediocre from what I saw. Ed Mann played one note for every 30 that he would've had to under Frank (or that Billy does with ZPZ). There was no guitarist that was capable of being Frank-like. And poor Ike sounded pretty tired. He spent most of his time in the bar area. Sure, I'd pay $15 again to hear that music played by them again - that was about right price, but definitely not worth the 2 hour drive. Am I missing something with them, or do people really value 'an original' singer over an incredible performance by a super-tight band? Or maybe I just saw them on an off night - maybe someone who's seen them more could tell me if that was a bad show or something... I'd love to love them as much as I love seeing ZPZ.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:09 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
Ifi I can't say something nice, I won't say anything. But I'd really like to.

I reckon you just did, I reckon.

Thats Dead Reckoning

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