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 Post subject: Accept No Substitutes
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:54 pm 
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I've been thinking about this post for a few weeks now. The post I was going to write this in is no longer around.

This post is not about negativity, I don't want to get in an argument with Trendmonger about authenticity; in fact, I'd rather he not post anything on this thread. I hope some of you do. I hope this does not get deleted, as the underlying sentiment is very positive. It's not about my last ZPZ show in Montreal and how I didn't get my download. I could care less. Dweezil played Dog Breath per my request specifically for me in the warmups. They opened with Imaginary Diseases. He signed my Crunchy Water records. They are the true study of Frank Zappa's music. DZ has such a gift, and such a respect for his father. I cannot wait to see the music kept alive beyond what has already been done, but also expansion in places Frank did not have the time to go. I will accept no substitutes as he is the doctorate, the understudy, the blood, the closest thing to a physical manifestation.

Everyone here agrees that music is the best. We get what our cronies or significant others do not. Zappa. We see, and approach the statistical density and magnitude of what was created and left to us. While he said he did not care about his legacy, it is a part of my everyday life, and I know it is a part of yours. Your participation on this forum is a statement of that within itself.

I am the biggest record collector of Zappa I know. Fucking Zurkon Wax puts me in my place though. I thought I was the biggest fan in Maine too, until a Zappateers profile convinced me otherwise. I met an all knowing and all mighty Zappa fan, greater than myself, and more worthy, more knowledgeable than I ( even though I've read all the books I can, listened to ANYTHING [to get 50 bucks], and have been putting boogers on my bedroom window). The thread where he mentioned the show is gone and I don't want to get him associated with my post, but he is BillyDaMtn.

Now, this night in question, I think I lived up to the America Drinks and Goes Home sentiment. But, the night before, I called BillyDaMtn, and a few buddies. I'd never met him.

Why did I call them. Because I had booked 4 tickets to see Project Object, with Ike Willis, Ray White, Andre, and the band at Regatta Jazz bar. I got the first tics.

Now, the best show I ever saw, was the first tour with Ray in Hampton Beach NH, where Ray sang greasy children and the band did somewhat of a xenochrony tour and the band was tight. seen every tour but got very excited for this thing.

I saw the first tour too, but this show with ZPZ just coming out with Ray, fucking did it for me.

So I bring you now.....years later to an announcement with Ike and Ray, and I've got tics to the front row. I'm at the regatta jazz bar. I can touch Ray and Ike. I've got a guy that I've never met, bigger fan than I, and we are experiencing Project Object. If you are still with me, this is the crux of the biscuit.

Ike, who smoked a butt with us before hand, Ray, who was sippin some red wine, and Andre, who made this whole thing happen, were incredibly modest.

They fucking rocked. Amazing. These guys made me feel that I was a part of all those shows in the 80's. It is so good to see these guys together. I felt like there was no substitute for this.

Now remember this is only my opinion. Andre, as much as DZ has contempt, made this magical moment happen. Everyone can say what they will, but, he shows the ultimate respect for FZ. His solos are authentic, his management is right on, and the band is fucking awesome. His inca solo was so respectful that I was left with nothing but admiration for a guy that has dedicated his life to the music of FZ. I don't need to say anything more for Ike and Ray. btw, the rest of the p/o band was fucking tight.

And that's what it boils down to. We all dedicate our lives to the music in our own way. I have the utmost respect for DZ, Ben, Scheila, Pete, Billy, Jamie, and Joe.... but goddammit,

Ike
Ray
Andre
and the rest are doing a service

not a disservice

they have given their life to do this, and I can garunfuckintee you it has nothing to do with money.

The only thing I could keep thinking as I watched Ike and Ray together again is that DZ should be playing for them, because there is no substitute.

Andre made this happen, and he has never met me. He doesn't care. He loves the music more than I do. More than BillyDaMtn Does. More than you do.

How could that be a bad thing?

respectfully yours,

rfus


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:59 am 
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5...4...3...2...1...

can't beleive this is still here.
I didn't even notice that P/O thread was gone.

But I concur, that show was really good.
And it was a fun night of good music and 5 hours of driving (round trip) to hear that good music.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:19 am 
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This thread will probably be gone too. I don't think it's a matter of the band playing great or bad or in-between. They are not official representatives of the ZFT, and thus the ZFT has no control over the product that P/O delivers to the audience. If ZPZ plays poorly, then it's on them - this is the band that has the ZFT's endorsement, and it reflects badly on them, since this is what they have chosen to be the "face" of Frank Zappa and his music. Now whether any of thse other band love Frank and play perfect note for note renditions of his work, it doesn't matter to the ZFT - the thing is, they have no control over what any of these other bands play, and they can never be sure that what they are playing is what they want Frank's music to mean to the public.

If somebody was selling T-shirts they made in their basement with different pictures of Frank on them, would you say "it's okay because he loves Frank and they're great quality?"

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:36 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
This thread will probably be gone too. I don't think it's a matter of the band playing great or bad or in-between. They are not official representatives of the ZFT, and thus the ZFT has no control over the product that P/O delivers to the audience. If ZPZ plays poorly, then it's on them - this is the band that has the ZFT's endorsement, and it reflects badly on them, since this is what they have chosen to be the "face" of Frank Zappa and his music. Now whether any of thse other band love Frank and play perfect note for note renditions of his work, it doesn't matter to the ZFT - the thing is, they have no control over what any of these other bands play, and they can never be sure that what they are playing is what they want Frank's music to mean to the public.

If somebody was selling T-shirts they made in their basement with different pictures of Frank on them, would you say "it's okay because he loves Frank and they're great quality?"


If its a money thing, then I just don't agree with the T-shirt analogy, as P/O plays in venues that pay ASCAP fees so the ZFT is getting their money.

But to a different extent I hear what you're saying, and it is not so much that I don't agree with the ZFT, it is that I don't agree with their overall tone of attack.
No matter what they say, or how they say it; the fact will always be that for some of us fans who never got a chance to see FZ before he went on his last tour, P/O was one of the only touring bands to play FZ's music, and they were doing it for years before ZPZ was born.
The first time I heard live FZ it was via P/O. Napi was singing, Ike was doing his "thing" and the band was fun. Were they a perfect representitive of the music? I can't remember, but to me it didn't matter. It was about the music, the enjoyment thereof. Would FZ approved of this band? I don't know. And neither does anyone else. We can all guess, but who really knows what his thoughts were in the final days? Was it "Play my music"? or was it "I don't care if I'm remembered"?

Now, I've also gone (and dragged my wife to) see ZPZ on each tour, except the YCFTOSA shows, and I do so willingly and with a great big smile on my face; and they never failed to deliver, musically. But to me there is always something a little sterile about their renditions.
So I myself go with an attitude of "Accept All Substitues".
I guess if I were the ZFT, I'd be happy that these other cover bands may bring new fans to the table who just may bring their wallets with them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:49 am 
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Money has nothing to do with it. The T-shirt analogy was meant to convey that they don't have any control over what this guy is doing for or against the reputation of Frank.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:54 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
Money has nothing to do with it. The T-shirt analogy was meant to convey that they don't have any control over what this guy is doing for or against the reputation of Frank.


Duly noted.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:08 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
Money has nothing to do with it. The T-shirt analogy was meant to convey that they don't have any control over what this guy is doing for or against the reputation of Frank.


Your T-shirt analogy kinda sucks. Zappa was so about control that he alienated those around him. Were the bands great because zappa created the vision, or were they great because George Duke, Nappi, and Ruth were the ones who could bring the vision to you. The answer is both. My post was about that there is no substitute for Ike and Ray and as much as FZ made them, they made him. Seeing them is about seeing them, and they were trained by FZ to play his music. Playing Music being compared to ripping off a t-shirt makes me think that you do not play music or are not a musician. Control is mostly in the imagination of the imaginer.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:32 am 
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And I said "This thread will be gone too." I was just trying to explain why. I didn't say a word about Ray or Ike or their ability as musicians. If you want to get into whether it's right or wrong for them to do so, then that's another subject.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:36 am 
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Well, Lord knows this topic has been tortured, so to speak, on these boards. As most folks know, I have been decidedly outspoken about about ZFT's practices. It's really just a shame.

If [Zappa] music is the best, then more [Zappa] music is more of the best. Simple, right?

I don't believe any of the half-assed arguments I've heard from ZFT's side on this.

My read on it is this; Gail is now exercising a level of control as an individual that she never could while FZ was alive. I think it's her own little version of a power trip gone terribly awry.

In any event, here's to anyone with the balls to bring FZ's music to the stage. Cheers!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:08 am 
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rfus wrote:
Were the bands great because zappa created the vision, or were they great because George Duke, Nappi, and Ruth were the ones who could bring the vision to you. The answer is both. My post was about that there is no substitute for Ike and Ray and as much as FZ made them, they made him. Seeing them is about seeing them, and they were trained by FZ to play his music. Playing Music being compared to ripping off a t-shirt makes me think that you do not play music or are not a musician. Control is mostly in the imagination of the imaginer.


Amen! The wonderful music that Frank created during his lifetime is definitely Frank’s vision, direction & musicianship coupled with the talent of all of the musicians that brought the music to life along the journey.

Indeed, “Music is the best”, so let’s celebrate all of the musicians across the world who are willing to keep Frank’s music alive!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:18 am 
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All I know is that the night Rfus and I and a few other fans saw P/O they were great.
And one thing that ZPZ can't boast is having Ray and Ike on stage together for the first time in 25 years.
Say what you want about their "ability" to play the music, but right now P/O have to legit singers whereas ZPZ has none. Ben wasn't even really a fan. Yet Ike and Ray, were there.
Now that may not mean something to the ZPZ or to some fans, but it does to me.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:51 am 
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BillyDaMt wrote:
All I know is that the night Rfus and I and a few other fans saw P/O they were great.
And one thing that ZPZ can't boast is having Ray and Ike on stage together for the first time in 25 years.
Say what you want about their "ability" to play the music, but right now P/O have to legit singers whereas ZPZ has none. Ben wasn't even really a fan. Yet Ike and Ray, were there.
Now that may not mean something to the ZPZ or to some fans, but it does to me.


I'd go see them, but they're never even close to me. I've heard some though, and they do a great job.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:55 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
BillyDaMt wrote:
All I know is that the night Rfus and I and a few other fans saw P/O they were great.
And one thing that ZPZ can't boast is having Ray and Ike on stage together for the first time in 25 years.
Say what you want about their "ability" to play the music, but right now P/O have to legit singers whereas ZPZ has none. Ben wasn't even really a fan. Yet Ike and Ray, were there.
Now that may not mean something to the ZPZ or to some fans, but it does to me.


I'd go see them, but they're never even close to me. I've heard some though, and they do a great job.


Its a fun time.
They happen to play the east coast a lot so I get to see them frequently.
I am of the mindset that there is enough room for them and ZPZ.
And though the room was small at the regatta jazz bar, it was packed.
And even though Ike can be, and has been a mess, Ray is still in his ZPZ form;
and it was just really great to see them together.

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