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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 8:32 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
So why would so many " better guitar players" want to play with carlos.


I think the reason better guitarists want to play with Carlos is for the exposure to a bigger audience. Carlos had the good fortune of playing the overrated Woodstock Festival and like many others who played Woodstock, he became an overnight superstar. Mclaughlin sold a lot less units than Santana. Playing with Santana exposed him to the huge pop/counter culture audience that existed in 1973. I think it was a business move.





NOT, I saw Carlos with Joe Zawinul, and Wayne Shorter, venue held 200 people, Joe made a special point of the talent of Carlos, called him Mr. Melody, and in fact the tour was to showcase Santana's talent to more jazz fans.


Man, I would be so let down if I saw Weather Report and had to endure Carlos Santana getting in the way of their amazing chemistry with his lame guitar solo in every song. This Is This was my least favorite Weather Report album and Santana's redundant guitar was the low point.

Mr Melody? What does that make Zawinul and Shorter?
Answer: Very nice, generous guys.

pedro2 wrote:
Return To Forever, whose mind-blowing experimentation in jazz and rock....

Let's not get carried away. There's a big difference between mind blowing experimentation and simply showing off your chops in a soulless, robotic display of technique.
Which brings me right back to the topic.
:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 8:39 am 
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DM I suggest you listen to Swing of Delight, and Light as a Feather two fantastic albums, and i also consider RTF as mind blowing. that is all

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 9:11 am 
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I love Shorter, Harvey Mason and Ron Carter but I refuse to listen to an album under the heading of Devadip Carlos Santana. Life is too short, there is too much music and we all have to draw the line somewhere.
If he called the album Buddhist Rock and Roll Millionaire I would consider it.
8)


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:05 pm 
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Santana only did the Devadip name-thing after John "Mahavishnu" McLaughlin made it hip at the time. All bullshit if you ask me. Maha Orch kicks ass though. Inner Mounting Flame, Birds Of Fire, Trident Sessions, and the live album all rule. Any M.O. post '73 is horrible, and Santana can go eat a bag of dicks now.


Got my ticket for Buffalo this morning. Somewhere in the balcony. I've seen ZPZ 6 times now already, front and center in '06, and close enough other shows. I can live with sitting up high once and paying $30. I've never payed over $60 for a show and am not about to for RTF. I know they're all killer players, but I just never got into RTF music the same way I did Mahavishnu, Herbie or Miles. Now if it was ZPZ opening for original Mahavishnu Orchestra than I'd easily pay $75 or more for good seats.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:25 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:

pedro2 wrote:
Return To Forever, whose mind-blowing experimentation in jazz and rock....

Let's not get carried away. There's a big difference between mind blowing experimentation and simply showing off your chops in a soulless, robotic display of technique.
Which brings me right back to the topic.
:mrgreen:



That was cut and pasted from the site I saw it on , Downer :roll:

Not my words ... my mind hasn't blown .... yet :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 3:21 am 
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:15 am 
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:06 am 
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I'm totally psyched about this joint tour. ZPZ is a perfect complement to RTF, and the addition of JLP makes that evening look absolutely delicious.

I am a huge Carlos Santana fan, going all the way back to the 1st album. He was a big influence in my own guitar playing. However, I agree that he hasn't played a new note since the Barboleta album. He's been coasting for 30 years, playing the same thing over and over and over and over....... He could still be great, but he appears to have no interest in moving his music forward. That last album of guitar hits was absolutely terrible. Lazy lazy lazy.

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:50 am 
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I've heard the robotic stuff downer is talking about in reference to nearly every prog band and with Gambale instead of Dimeola, it might be the case. As fast as Dimeola is, I think golly, does he ever have a lot of soul... fast doesn't negate soul. But, Gambale, I haven't listened to him in eons cuz I hated his playing long ago. Anyone willing to convince me that he doesn't suck? What are the worthy Gambale recordings?
Santana is a big yawn though. He's pleasant enough and a competent player, but I've never found myself wanting to listen to more Santana.

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:20 am 
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Santana as I have said I find a good player if predictable, he writes pleasant and inspiring songs and has done well recently crossing over with modern singers and musicians...that being said I find his music most useful in a social setting when we do not choose to be too demanding on our listeners ears.

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 4:07 pm 
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IMHO you are being hypercritical. It would seem that taste in the musician is being confused with ability, who says complexity = greatness? This same argument has been made on this forum before directed at Jerry Garcia.. How do you guys like Stephane Grappelli?

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:46 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
I've heard the robotic stuff downer is talking about in reference to nearly every prog band and with Gambale instead of Dimeola, it might be the case. As fast as Dimeola is, I think golly, does he ever have a lot of soul... fast doesn't negate soul. But, Gambale, I haven't listened to him in eons cuz I hated his playing long ago. Anyone willing to convince me that he doesn't suck? What are the worthy Gambale recordings?
Santana is a big yawn though. He's pleasant enough and a competent player, but I've never found myself wanting to listen to more Santana.

I feel the same way about Gambale. Maybe it'll work out. For example, I am NOT a Dimeola fan, with the single exception of when he's with RTF. He's fabulous with that band, for some reason. With RTF, he plays differently. But I don't like his own stuff. So, if we're lucky, it'll be the same thing with Gambale. Hope so anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:25 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
IMHO you are being hypercritical. It would seem that taste in the musician is being confused with ability, who says complexity = greatness? This same argument has been made on this forum before directed at Jerry Garcia.. How do you guys like Stephane Grappelli?



Sweet mother of god...I thought I was being supportive and counteracting some of the anti- santana stuff, well thats what you get for trying, whats the old saying..."no good deed goes unpunished"... :|


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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 4:18 am 
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What about Grappelli???

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 7:51 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
who says complexity = greatness?


I see music like houses, u have streets with all the same little houses that could be destroy by medium tornado. and u have Castle built with rocks , those are solid with secret rooms inside where u can lose the trail to get out. I see Zappa music like a huge casle full of secret passages and doors hiden behind library wall.

Sorry for my bad english :|

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 8:09 am 
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I do to but certainly not every song !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


What about Grappelli???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:09 am 
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RTF IV and ZPZ Seattle September 24 at the Paramount. Am buying tickets now. Can't wait!!!


Last edited by hull534 on Thu May 26, 2011 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:18 am 
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Tickets secure. Mondavi Center. Sept. 21. Orchestra Left - G5 & G6.


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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:14 am 
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KillUgly wrote:
Tickets secure. Mondavi Center. Sept. 21. Orchestra Left - G5 & G6.



You got lucky KU because they are only selling tickets to subscribers and they accidentally had short window when the general public could purchase tickets, otherwise we have to wait until Aug. 20th to buy tickets... :x


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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:42 pm 
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I like Grappelli.

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:44 pm 
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Did you know Grappelli recorded with Pink Floyd on the Wish You Were Here track, which is going to be finally officially released in the new Immersion series?

Quote:
"Wish You Were Here"
is the title track on Pink Floyd's 1975
album Wish You Were Here. The song's
lyrics encompass writer Roger Waters'
feelings of alienation from other people.
Like most of the album, it refers to former
Pink Floyd member Syd Barrett and his
breakdown. The main riff came to
David Gilmour at home while playing on an
acoustic guitar, and it became something
which he continued to play in-between takes
at Abbey Road Studios where it caught the
attention of Roger Waters. They collaborated
to complete the song, as Waters had already
written some lyrics. In 2004, the song was
ranked #316 on Rolling Stone's list of the
500 Greatest Songs of All Time.

Roger Waters - Fender bass guitar, tape effects
David Gilmour - 6 and 12-string acoustic guitars,
pedal steel guitar, tape effects,
lead and backing vocals
Richard Wright - Steinway piano,
Mini-Moog Synthesizers
Nick Mason - drums, tape effects
Stephane Grappelli - violin (There is a brief piece of
violin playing at the end of the track which was
subsequently all but drowned out by the addition of
the wind effects, although if you listen closely or turn
the volume up louder, starting at the 5:21 mark, the
barely-audible violin can be heard.
Violinist Stephane Grappelli was recording in a
downstairs studio, and Gilmour had suggested that
there be a little "country fiddle" at the end of the song.
Grappelli duly obliged, although because his
contribution is barely audible, the band decided not to
credit him for it in the sleevenotes. According to Waters,
he received the agreed fee of £300, however.
Recorded between January and July 1975 at Abbey Road Studios, London.

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 1:01 pm 
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Did not know that , very interesting, his live album with David Grismon is great.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Plook wrote:
KillUgly wrote:
Tickets secure. Mondavi Center. Sept. 21. Orchestra Left - G5 & G6.



You got lucky KU because they are only selling tickets to subscribers and they accidentally had short window when the general public could purchase tickets, otherwise we have to wait until Aug. 20th to buy tickets... :x

So you still didn't get your tix? KK said he got his.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:36 am 
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KillUgly wrote:
Plook wrote:
KillUgly wrote:
Tickets secure. Mondavi Center. Sept. 21. Orchestra Left - G5 & G6.



You got lucky KU because they are only selling tickets to subscribers and they accidentally had short window when the general public could purchase tickets, otherwise we have to wait until Aug. 20th to buy tickets... :x

So you still didn't get your tix? KK said he got his.



He played the disabled card...thats a gimme in Davis...lol... :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:20 pm 
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Well, knowing what an enviable position I'm in I'll offer up my tix for $500.00. :D I don't really like to sit that close anyway.


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