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 Post subject: FZ and Satie
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:09 pm 
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So how was Erik Satie's work influential to FZ? did FZ ever quote any Satie in his own stuff?


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 Post subject: Re: FZ and Satie
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:25 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
So how was Erik Satie's work influential to FZ? did FZ ever quote any Satie in his own stuff?


on first performance of socrate
...Satie’s paradigm shift earned him a permanent place in the periphery of popular culture that the academics never succeed in expunging, try as they might. (I’ll never forget Frank Zappa making a nonplussed rock ‘n’ roll audience sit through Socrate at the beginning of his final New York concert.) But, though permanent, Satie’s paradigm never grew outward into the mainstream culture of music. Consequently, 90 years after its composition, Socrate continues to arouse utterly contradictory impressions, a masterpiece to some and a hollow experiment to others...

Kyle Gann


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 Post subject: Re: FZ and Satie
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:32 pm 
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more than the gymnopedias
satie as zappa always took a sarcastic atittude toward his music
and he was part of the begining of such movements as
impressionism, neo-classicism, dada, surrealism, atonalism, minimalism, conceptual art, the theatre of the absurd, muzak, ambient music, multimedia art, etc., and as taking the first steps towards techniques such as prepared piano also satie became one of the first musicians to perform a cameo appearance


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:48 pm 
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Ah, Erik Satie..he's my avatar. I think I started a post on this once.

I found through my research no actual evidence that Zappa was influenced by Satie. Several sites say so (like wikipedia, pssh, big accolade there) but Zappa himself never mentioned him (that I could find.)

Socrate, I've heard several times, was not picked by Zappa himself, but those sources were also of dubious quality.

The ways I can see Zappa and Satie as being similar is in there humour..and that's about it. Also, regardless of whether or not Satie ever would have said so, his <i>Socrate</i> uses spechrestimme quite frequently.

Kyle Gann is a smart guy, one of my favorite music journalists (actually, the only one I like.)

I'm too lazy to write out how different Zappa and Satie are, but the main one is complexity/simplicity.

Zappa used 'over'complexity to create a feeling of tension in some pieces, in others it just arose naturally. Satie used 'over'simplicity to create a relaxed, 'easy' to absorb feel..sometimes he hoped noone would listen (in the case of his furniture music), but still somehow his music was considered banal. Not just because of the titles (Dried Up Embryos, etc.) but also because of what the music crowd interpreted as childlike simplicity. However, Satie's gymnopedies are just as carefully composed as Schoenberg's Erwartung, if you pay attention...

Musically, I'd call them almost complete opposites.

Personality wise, Zappa's satire was biting and offensive. Attacking. Satie's satire wasn't really offensive or biting, just a representation in a different light so as to say "giggle,giggle..how stupid...how cheesey" by simple suggestion. I'd say...subtler?

Satie was also afraid of progress in anything but music. He never sought to record his music, he didn't own a phone, he hated trains...he wished to live in the medieval times that influenced his music so much.

So, they're sort of similar, but vastly different. I don't look at them as closely together as I used to, except for their experimental tendencies (Satie also wrote the first atonal piece). My observation on the matter is that I can definatley see Satie enjoying Zappa's pieces, but I'm not positive on Zappa enjoying Satie..Zappa hated repetition, which Satie was guilty of (he wrote 'Vexations', to be repeated 846 times....hilarious.)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:25 pm 
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While digging Satie's music,I get the impression that he was largely indifferent as to whether or not people heard his music.He was aloof,perhaps even more that enough eccentric...He didn't want to interact with people- he might of even thought that he was superior to them...Maybe that's the easy way out.But Zappa worked hard to get his message across.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:25 pm 
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I wouldn't say that, exactly. The guy did go back to music school just so that people would stop critisizing his unique sense of harmony.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:11 pm 
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FeralCats wrote:
I wouldn't say that, exactly. The guy did go back to music school just so that people would stop critisizing his unique sense of harmony.
Perhaps you have read more about his history than I have.John Cage talked about Satie...At what point did he go back to music school? As I recall,he didn't make it untill he was 50...I'll have to look at Wikipedia about Satie...Nevertheless,I still am inclined to think that he really didn't care if his stuff was accessible to any public,whereas Zappa worked damn hard to supply music to his audience.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:20 pm 
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Well, there's a difference between care and promotion.
Satie seemed like a pretty humble guy..he took a composition job that Stravinsky demanded 5000$ for for 500.

But, you're right. Zappa went to extraordinary lengths to make himself known so people would hear his music. If it wasn't for Debussy and Ravel, no one would have cared about Satie for a long time (in fact, no one did still).

Quote:
Perhaps you have read more about his history than I have


I'd equal my Satie fanship with my Zappa fanship, so that's a good possibility (not trying to come off as superior here, just saying.)

Anyway, when talking about someone's personality, it helps to know them...and I can't really say that of Satie or Zappa, can I?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:23 pm 
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Image

Picked this double disc up last week...I've only gotten through a little bit of it, but so far it seems excellent. Anyone else heard it? Thoughts?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:35 pm 
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I recently got a single disc version a couple months ago, emi classics, works for piano, 38 tracks, 71:31 in length
no socrate

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:43 pm 
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sleeping in a jar wrote:
Image

Picked this double disc up last week...I've only gotten through a little bit of it, but so far it seems excellent. Anyone else heard it? Thoughts?


That was the first recording of Satie I bought- still a favorite. How much did you pay for yours? I remember being surprised that a 2 CD set was only 8.00$ new.

It doesn't have all of his greatest things-like his ballets, or his furniture music-but as most of his music is for piano, it has most of his masterpieces.
If you ever decide to go looking for more Satie, I'd look up the ballet 'Relache' and 'Parade' and the piece 'Socrate'.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:26 am 
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FeralCats wrote:
That was the first recording of Satie I bought- still a favorite. How much did you pay for yours? I remember being surprised that a 2 CD set was only 8.00$ new.

It doesn't have all of his greatest things-like his ballets, or his furniture music-but as most of his music is for piano, it has most of his masterpieces.
If you ever decide to go looking for more Satie, I'd look up the ballet 'Relache' and 'Parade' and the piece 'Socrate'.


I paid $13.50 which I know to be a high price for this disc, as it can be gotten on Amazon for $10.99. But I wanted it badly and also happened to have a $25 gift card which was burning a hole in my wallet! Money well spent.

I'll make a note of your suggestions, THANKS!

The rest of the gift card, btw, was applied toward the purchase of Bach's French Suites performed by Glenn Gould.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:06 am 
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once read, erik satie had seven identic suits.
frank had seven identic underpanties.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:40 am 
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DoktorFaustroll wrote:
once read, erik satie had seven identic suits.
frank had seven identic underpanties.


Nah, it may seem that way, but he just wore the same pair every day of the week. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:22 pm 
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FeralCats wrote:
(Satie also wrote the first atonal piece)
Are you sure? I think he might be the first westerner to write atonal music with the intent of atonal music. (Yes I am splitting hairs for arguments sake) wouldn't the first baby to cry be the first atonal music composer?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:34 pm 
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He studied with him in Paris in 1920. Some Brazilian dude swears on it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:11 pm 
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Grimpoteuthis wrote:
FeralCats wrote:
(Satie also wrote the first atonal piece)
Are you sure? I think he might be the first westerner to write atonal music with the intent of atonal music. (Yes I am splitting hairs for arguments sake) wouldn't the first baby to cry be the first atonal music composer?


Why yes, yes they would be.

.....

Your argumentative approach doesn't really work, does it? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:12 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
He studied with him in Paris in 1920. Some Brazilian dude swears on it.


Man, if he did, I might have had an orgasm.

I'm totally 100% serious.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:48 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
He studied with him in Paris in 1920. Some Brazilian dude swears on it.


. . . . . . .:arrow:. .bump

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:41 am 
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Satie is fucking dope.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:21 pm 
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once had a dream, that erik satie and frank zappa met for a rehearsal,
where erik tried to say more with less notes,
while frank tried to say less with more notes.
from moment to moment the distance between them grew bigger and bigger.
and the bigger the gap was the closer they got.
when they finally met in the far distance they both started to laugh.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:26 am 
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pigs03 wrote:
Satie is fucking dope.
    :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:50 am 
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Quote:
where erik tried to say more with less notes,
while frank tried to say less with more notes.


I think that distinction is really oversimplistic.
Rather than saying 'more' or 'less' they were saying different things.
and they needed different materials...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:11 am 
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haha?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:12 pm 
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Satie tried to have as many letters
In his last name as Frank
Zappa

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