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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:01 pm 
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kawy wrote:
[I just think if an Indian, Muslim, whoever, come to live in England, they should adhere to the culture they are living in, or dont bloody live there.


Again,They hate us and want to cut our heads off,Thats why they don't conform to your culture :D


haha

and kawy, your reason in thinking its justified that you think "indian, muslim, whoever" should conform is because you say when in their country you would conform to their culture. Well, two wrongs dont make a right, how about you fucking lead by example??
its a round world last time i checked


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:26 am 
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Raoul Duke wrote:
why exactly dont you want your daughter to be taught by a teacher wearing a hijab? what difference would it make? what if the teacher wore a scarf or a hat? what if the teacher wore a cross around her neck? what if she was a rastafarian and had dread locks?


Because her face would not be visible and I think it's important for a kid to be able to see the person who is teaching them. As far as Im concerned, her teacher could wear a scarf or hat or have dreds, tatoos dyed bright hair and piercings, and I wouldnt care one bit. I just have a problem with the face covering, because I don't like what it symbolises.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:50 am 
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kawy wrote:
[I just think if an Indian, Muslim, whoever, come to live in England, they should adhere to the culture they are living in, or dont bloody live there.


Again,They hate us and want to cut our heads off,Thats why they don't conform to your culture :D


The problem is, Islamic extremists cause the problems and the whole religion gets blamed for it, thus causing stereotypes of Muslims that want to 'cut our heads off.' I don't care for Islam any more than I care for other religions, personally I think such things are frivolous and designed to control people and stop them from progressing mentally. As I stated in a prveious post, remove organised religion and you remove the problem, though it would be hard to accomplish.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:06 am 
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aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
Raoul Duke wrote:
why exactly dont you want your daughter to be taught by a teacher wearing a hijab? what difference would it make? what if the teacher wore a scarf or a hat? what if the teacher wore a cross around her neck? what if she was a rastafarian and had dread locks?


Because her face would not be visible and I think it's important for a kid to be able to see the person who is teaching them. As far as Im concerned, her teacher could wear a scarf or hat or have dreds, tatoos dyed bright hair and piercings, and I wouldnt care one bit. I just have a problem with the face covering, because I don't like what it symbolises.


I probably should've just edited this in to my last post but screw it. I would just like to say that I don't have kids nor do I want any.

Do they even employ teachers wearing Hijabs? I wouldn't think they'd be allowed to wear them in the classroom at least. I can see what you mean though, when you can see someone's face (as humans respond to visual stimuli above most other things) you can develop a stronger relationship with that person. I dislike teachers whether I can see their faces or not, they're all the same to me. My biggest problems with religion are sexism and inequality in general, not to mention most of the violence around the world having religious and racial attachments.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:18 am 
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Crudblud wrote:

I probably should've just edited this in to my last post but screw it. I would just like to say that I don't have kids nor do I want any.

Do they even employ teachers wearing Hijabs? I wouldn't think they'd be allowed to wear them in the classroom at least. I can see what you mean though, when you can see someone's face (as humans respond to visual stimuli above most other things) you can develop a stronger relationship with that person. I dislike teachers whether I can see their faces or not, they're all the same to me. My biggest problems with religion are sexism and inequality in general, not to mention most of the violence around the world having religious and racial attachments.


This particular teacher was interviewed for the job without the cloth covering her face, and whilst working there decided that it was her right to wear it should she want to. The school in question didnt agree, and said if she insisted on wearing it during lessons, they would have to let her go, which they did in the end. Hence the following employment tribunal.

Yeah I get your point about teachers, but practically, I dont have the time to home tutor my daughter, and if I kept her home from school every day, I'd be doing her a disservice. She needs to know how to interact with other people as well, without me there and me keeping her home all day would take that away from her. Surprisingly though, in defence of the teachers at her school, in the main theyre really good teachers. The headmistress is a wonderful woman, and celebrates children of all backgrounds, encouraging them to express themselves in all kinds of different ways. It's a lot different to the way things were when I was at school.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:54 am 
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aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
Crudblud wrote:

I probably should've just edited this in to my last post but screw it. I would just like to say that I don't have kids nor do I want any.

Do they even employ teachers wearing Hijabs? I wouldn't think they'd be allowed to wear them in the classroom at least. I can see what you mean though, when you can see someone's face (as humans respond to visual stimuli above most other things) you can develop a stronger relationship with that person. I dislike teachers whether I can see their faces or not, they're all the same to me. My biggest problems with religion are sexism and inequality in general, not to mention most of the violence around the world having religious and racial attachments.


This particular teacher was interviewed for the job without the cloth covering her face, and whilst working there decided that it was her right to wear it should she want to. The school in question didnt agree, and said if she insisted on wearing it during lessons, they would have to let her go, which they did in the end. Hence the following employment tribunal.

Yeah I get your point about teachers, but practically, I dont have the time to home tutor my daughter, and if I kept her home from school every day, I'd be doing her a disservice. She needs to know how to interact with other people as well, without me there and me keeping her home all day would take that away from her. Surprisingly though, in defence of the teachers at her school, in the main theyre really good teachers. The headmistress is a wonderful woman, and celebrates children of all backgrounds, encouraging them to express themselves in all kinds of different ways. It's a lot different to the way things were when I was at school.


No I meant I personally don't get along with teachers, that's all, I'm not telling to home school your daughter haha.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:58 am 
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Crudblud wrote:
No I meant I personally don't get along with teachers, that's all, I'm not telling to home school your daughter haha.

I don't recall ever having a problem with any teachers, during my schoolin' years. Mind you, at the end of grade 13, I gave my grade 12 History teacher my yearbook to sign, and he drew a happy face and wrote "I didn't have Doug in my class this year". So likely, my attitude in class invited (if not encouraged) confrontations, and strife was just an average day in class for me. (anything to keep class interesting! :) )
And, for the record, I may respect other people's ways, customs and religions, but if they come over here to my turf, it's up to them to make allowances for my way of life, not the other way around.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:15 am 
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Crudblud wrote:

No I meant I personally don't get along with teachers, that's all, I'm not telling to home school your daughter haha.


I know you weren't...hahahaha.
8)

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:16 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
And, for the record, I may respect other people's ways, customs and religions, but if they come over here to my turf, it's up to them to make allowances for my way of life, not the other way around.


Hell yes, Im in agreement there.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:27 pm 
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aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
Raoul Duke wrote:
why exactly dont you want your daughter to be taught by a teacher wearing a hijab? what difference would it make? what if the teacher wore a scarf or a hat? what if the teacher wore a cross around her neck? what if she was a rastafarian and had dread locks?


Because her face would not be visible and I think it's important for a kid to be able to see the person who is teaching them. As far as Im concerned, her teacher could wear a scarf or hat or have dreds, tatoos dyed bright hair and piercings, and I wouldnt care one bit. I just have a problem with the face covering, because I don't like what it symbolises.


ok so you dont have a problem with any other religious symbols, just the hijab, and because you personally have a problem with it and dont like it, the other person should change?


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:04 am 
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Raoul Duke wrote:

ok so you dont have a problem with any other religious symbols, just the hijab, and because you personally have a problem with it and dont like it, the other person should change?


I have a problem with people following any religion that force their beliefs onto other people. Particularly when these people come from other countries to flee violence or opression then decide to tell our country what is right and what is wrong. When we challenge that, they then play the race card. Bang out of order imo.

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:34 am 
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aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
Raoul Duke wrote:

ok so you dont have a problem with any other religious symbols, just the hijab, and because you personally have a problem with it and dont like it, the other person should change?


I have a problem with people following any religion that force their beliefs onto other people. Particularly when these people come from other countries to flee violence or opression then decide to tell our country what is right and what is wrong. When we challenge that, they then play the race card. Bang out of order imo.


what you just said has absolutely no relevance to the subject we were discussing.

how exactly is a woman wearing a hijab and teaching a class forcing their personal religious belief on anyone apart from herself? if she was also coming from a different country to "flee violence or opression" (what if the personal was fleeing religious opression?) how is the act of her wearing a hijab in anyway telling your country what is right and what is wrong?

it sounds like individual freedom is a big no when it comes to you, it also sounds like you are ignorant and misguided


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:47 am 
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Raoul Duke wrote:

what you just said has absolutely no relevance to the subject we were discussing.


Wrong, you said "ok so you dont have a problem with any other religious symbols, just the hijab..". I was explaining that I have a problem with anyone forcing their beliefs on others whether they wear any religious symbols or not.

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how exactly is a woman wearing a hijab and teaching a class forcing their personal religious belief on anyone apart from herself?

It is putting a barrier there for the kids. Facial expression and body language are important factors, and to take that away when teaching kids, is in my opinion selfish. It's like me living in a strictly Muslim country and insisting they let me teach whilst wearing a vest top and shorts. Then when they refuse, taking them to a tribunal. Simple difference is, I wouldnt do that, I'd respect their views and traditions.

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if she was also coming from a different country to "flee violence or opression" (what if the personal was fleeing religious opression?) how is the act of her wearing a hijab in anyway telling your country what is right and what is wrong?


I'm all for individuals doing whatever they want to as long as it doesn't hurt or affect anyone else, but when it comes to taking on roles like that of teacher or class assistant you have to think of the kids you're teaching, not yourself and your religion. What if she was fleeing religious opression? How does that make a difference? Our culture here is different, and to live here under whatever circumstances, that must be accepted. Im not the most patriotic of people, but I do want my country to retain it's identity. I would no more go to a Muslim country and wear a mini skirt and revealing top down the high street, than I would do my weekly shopping here, naked. I would respect their culture and respect the people who lived there, and I certainly wouldnt play the racist card.

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it sounds like individual freedom is a big no when it comes to you, it also sounds like you are ignorant and misguided

Nope. As I explained, it's all about covering your face. I don't care if people chose to wear the veil, I have a problem if they cover their face though.
Apart from anything, I'm truly not that interested what your opinion is of me. I know who I am, I know what I beleive and I know I'm a good honest person. So, if it makes you feel better to think that Im ignorant and misguided, then go for it.

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I think if you wore clothes like that in certain Islamic countries, Aspy your body and your life would be in danger. And that is the whole difference between them and us. So far it has been under only the most extreme provocation (the World Trade Center) that retribution has been dealt out in the form of attacking mosques or people who are Islamic or who appear Islamic. And as far as I know that did not continue past a few weeks. It would take far less (revealing clothes, traveling without male relatives) to land a woman in serious trouble in Iran or Saudi Arabia for instance.

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aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
Wrong, you said "ok so you dont have a problem with any other religious symbols, just the hijab..". I was explaining that I have a problem with anyone forcing their beliefs on others whether they wear any religious symbols or not.


and how does you having a problem with anyone forcing their beliefs on others have anything to do with the discussion? you still have not done anything with merit to indicate how a woman wearing a hijab whilst teaching is forcing her beliefs on anyone; it doesnt.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 4:26 am 
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aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
The_Acadian_2 wrote:
hiya Aspy,

Yeah i know what you mean. In Canada a few years back it was the knife wielding siks who were a problem in public schools, still is i think. Here in France they made a law! "There shall be no extreniously religious garments(including head scarfs) and or objects (including crosses) allowed in public schools" (end of discussion). If you want to practice your religion in public, send your kids to a private school delivering that sort of entertainement which is in tune with your beliefs. That's why Al Queda has a problem with France even though they did not join the coalition on Iraq.


Alright Mucker, how are you?

I think France have it spot on there, we should be taking a leaf out of their book. I went to a Catholic school, not because my parents were particularly religious, but because it was closer for me to get to. It was just religion pushed down my throat by idiotic bigots who believed the only way to live was by their God. It's total arse. I think if the headmaster could have gotten away with it, any kids who had misbehaved would have been flogged in the playground. Thankfully, I had the good sense not to follow any religion, but decided for myself what constitues good and bad, and how to treat people. I don't think anyone needs a damn religion to tell them how to live, least of all impressionable kids who are soaking up information like sponges. My daughter was not christened, nor will be confirmed, and she goes to a school of no denomination. I'm a pretty lenient parent, and there's not many things I impose on my kid, but that's something I insisted upon. She can make her own mind up if she wants to follow a religion when she's old enough to make an informed and unbiased opinion.


doin good thanks,

Yeah i went to catholic school too, and the sisters took extra pleasure in giving kids the "strap" which was a short leather belt which they used on your hands. We are talking about some sinister peinguins here folks. After six years in their "care" i was ready to become a priest. Luckily we moved and i had to go to "public" school, wherein i discovered sex, drugs and rock and roll.....the rest is history.
I really hate religion and believe that anyone who tries to sell it to someone else should pay a fine! Just like a (hard) drug dealer you know!

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 5:14 am 
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The_Acadian_2 wrote:
Yeah i went to catholic school too, and the sisters took extra pleasure in giving kids the "strap" which was a short leather belt which they used on your hands.

The strap? You were lucky! We used to dream of getting the strap! At good old St.Mary's CIC, they used the dreaded "cane", a half inch round wood rod. And not on the butt, either. It was on the hands. My wrists turned blue, and they had to run cold water on them to bring down the swelling. (probably my fault for refusing to show pain. Father Knox just kept at it until I did!). Baxters!

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:05 am 
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Raoul Duke wrote:

and how does you having a problem with anyone forcing their beliefs on others have anything to do with the discussion?

Thats the whole point of it. Im quite entitled to submit my opinion. I detest religion and think anyone forcing their beliefs on others is wrong.

Quote:
you still have not done anything with merit to indicate how a woman wearing a hijab whilst teaching is forcing her beliefs on anyone; it doesnt.


Because of her religion it is forcing the kids to have to be taught by a teacher with her face covered, which is wrong. She is inflicting that situation on young kids purely because of what she believes in. She may not be forcing her religion directly onto the kids, but ultimately, the kids lose out because of it.
You carry on splitting hairs if ya wanna. I'm done with talking to you now. :lol:

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aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
Thats the whole point of it. Im quite entitled to submit my opinion. I detest religion and think anyone forcing their beliefs on others is wrong.


this woman is not forcing her beliefs on anyone, but you are. by forcing her out of work because you believe she shouldnt wear something, you are forcing your beliefs on her.

aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
Because of her religion it is forcing the kids to have to be taught by a teacher with her face covered, which is wrong. She is inflicting that situation on young kids purely because of what she believes in. She may not be forcing her religion directly onto the kids, but ultimately, the kids lose out because of it.
You carry on splitting hairs if ya wanna. I'm done with talking to you now. :lol:


you believe its wrong; youre forcing your beliefs on her. her having her face covered effects the way the students are taught, yes, but no more than a teacher having different coloured skin effects the students, no more than a teacher who is a complete arsehole effects the students, no more than a teacher who has a moustache or beard effects the students, no more than a teacher who wears a cross around their neck effects the students, no more than any personality trait a teacher has can effect the students.

Anyway, why do you want to censor this from children? if you personally find it wrong that someone else chooses to live their life in a certain way, why cant you tell your child(ren) that? would you rather your chil(ren) be ignorant? maybe being exposed to something will help your child have a better understanding of other people and cultures, right or wrong. Just maybe they will be a little less prejudice and a little less ignorant.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 4:26 am 
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Raoul Duke wrote:

this woman is not forcing her beliefs on anyone, but you are. by forcing her out of work because you believe she shouldnt wear something, you are forcing your beliefs on her.

you believe its wrong; youre forcing your beliefs on her. her having her face covered effects the way the students are taught, yes, but no more than a teacher having different coloured skin effects the students, no more than a teacher who is a complete arsehole effects the students, no more than a teacher who has a moustache or beard effects the students, no more than a teacher who wears a cross around their neck effects the students, no more than any personality trait a teacher has can effect the students.

Anyway, why do you want to censor this from children? if you personally find it wrong that someone else chooses to live their life in a certain way, why cant you tell your child(ren) that? would you rather your chil(ren) be ignorant? maybe being exposed to something will help your child have a better understanding of other people and cultures, right or wrong. Just maybe they will be a little less prejudice and a little less ignorant.


aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
You carry on splitting hairs if ya wanna. I'm done with talking to you now. :lol:


:lol:

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Raoul Duke wrote:

you believe its wrong; youre forcing your beliefs on her. her having her face covered effects the way the students are taught, yes, but no more than a teacher having different coloured skin effects the students, no more than a teacher who is a complete arsehole effects the students, no more than a teacher who has a moustache or beard effects the students, no more than a teacher who wears a cross around their neck effects the students, no more than any personality trait a teacher has can effect the students.

Anyway, why do you want to censor this from children? if you personally find it wrong that someone else chooses to live their life in a certain way, why cant you tell your child(ren) that? would you rather your chil(ren) be ignorant? maybe being exposed to something will help your child have a better understanding of other people and cultures, right or wrong. Just maybe they will be a little less prejudice and a little less ignorant.



Raoul your letting your feet get in the way of your words. There is a BIG difference between having coloured skin or a moustache and showing your religion. Religion is a private matter and does not belong on the street. If you want to wear your religion do it in the church, because if you wear it outside the church you are sending a message that could say "look at me, my beliefs are more holy than yours" and then it's just a short jump to "you are an infidel, you must (fill in the blank). And then it's "you fucking racist you wont let me practice my beliefs ".

I say let's ban all religion from the street and from government (look what's happened to the USA) and from all public facilities. And then get on with pursuing hapiness and getting to the end of our (genetic) code in one piece.

The only thing we should all kneel to is FZ' guitar playing.

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The_Acadian_2 wrote:
Raoul Duke wrote:

you believe its wrong; youre forcing your beliefs on her. her having her face covered effects the way the students are taught, yes, but no more than a teacher having different coloured skin effects the students, no more than a teacher who is a complete arsehole effects the students, no more than a teacher who has a moustache or beard effects the students, no more than a teacher who wears a cross around their neck effects the students, no more than any personality trait a teacher has can effect the students.

Anyway, why do you want to censor this from children? if you personally find it wrong that someone else chooses to live their life in a certain way, why cant you tell your child(ren) that? would you rather your chil(ren) be ignorant? maybe being exposed to something will help your child have a better understanding of other people and cultures, right or wrong. Just maybe they will be a little less prejudice and a little less ignorant.



Raoul your letting your feet get in the way of your words. There is a BIG difference between having coloured skin or a moustache and showing your religion. Religion is a private matter and does not belong on the street. If you want to wear your religion do it in the church, because if you wear it outside the church you are sending a message that could say "look at me, my beliefs are more holy than yours" and then it's just a short jump to "you are an infidel, you must (fill in the blank). And then it's "you fucking racist you wont let me practice my beliefs ".

I say let's ban all religion from the street and from government (look what's happened to the USA) and from all public facilities. And then get on with pursuing hapiness and getting to the end of our (genetic) code in one piece.

The only thing we should all kneel to is FZ' guitar playing.


Some good ideas Acadian, but as with mine, one fundamental flaw; there is no way to destroy religion, and thus no way to voice your opinions on religion without being labeled as an infidel, racist etc.

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The_Acadian_2 wrote:
Raoul Duke wrote:

you believe its wrong; youre forcing your beliefs on her. her having her face covered effects the way the students are taught, yes, but no more than a teacher having different coloured skin effects the students, no more than a teacher who is a complete arsehole effects the students, no more than a teacher who has a moustache or beard effects the students, no more than a teacher who wears a cross around their neck effects the students, no more than any personality trait a teacher has can effect the students.

Anyway, why do you want to censor this from children? if you personally find it wrong that someone else chooses to live their life in a certain way, why cant you tell your child(ren) that? would you rather your chil(ren) be ignorant? maybe being exposed to something will help your child have a better understanding of other people and cultures, right or wrong. Just maybe they will be a little less prejudice and a little less ignorant.



Raoul your letting your feet get in the way of your words. There is a BIG difference between having coloured skin or a moustache and showing your religion. Religion is a private matter and does not belong on the street. If you want to wear your religion do it in the church, because if you wear it outside the church you are sending a message that could say "look at me, my beliefs are more holy than yours" and then it's just a short jump to "you are an infidel, you must (fill in the blank). And then it's "you fucking racist you wont let me practice my beliefs ".

I say let's ban all religion from the street and from government (look what's happened to the USA) and from all public facilities. And then get on with pursuing hapiness and getting to the end of our (genetic) code in one piece.

The only thing we should all kneel to is FZ' guitar playing.


youre confusing me pointing out the flaws in what (i forgot his name) was saying and my personal views. i have not talked about my personal views. also, i did include a teacher wearing in cross.


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aspy_2nd_bunch wrote:
You carry on splitting hairs if ya wanna. I'm done with talking to you now. :lol:

:lol:


unless by "splitting hairs" you mean pointing out all the flaws in your argument, then im not splitting hairs but i can understand why you wouldnt want to admit you are a cunt. its people like you that have made the world (the human world) into the piece of shit that it is.


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 Post subject: have you been mistreated
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:11 am
Posts: 3505
Hey Raoul, go get on Dr, Laura's blog this is for MUSIC !!!!!!!


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