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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:31 am 
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yeah, well, eitherway, chemo therapy is pretty poisoning.
I always thought Claudius WAS poisoned rather than suspected....maybe I watched the screen adaption of I Claudius one too many times.....

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:04 am 
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Was Frank Zappa murdered? Hmm...

The early stages of prostate cancer often cause no symptoms. Symptoms such as trouble urinating, haematuria, erectile dysfunction etc usually indicates advanced prostate cancer. Early stage prostate cancer is curable; advanced prostate cancer that has metastasised (usually to the lymph nodes or, in FZ’s case, the bones) is incurable and terminal; in this case, treatments like chemotherapy are administered to slow the advance of the disease, and pain relief is provided. Screening programs (such as testing your blood for its prostate specific antigen (PSA) level) are designed to catch prostate cancer at the localised, curable stage. As noted by others, prostate cancer is rare in the under 50s; I believe PSA screening starts at 50 in the USA, or younger for those considered in high risk groups. Another complication is that prostate cancer, although rarer, spreads quicker at a younger age, and is thus harder to catch before it becomes advanced and generally terminal.

So, it’s likely that FZ was one of the rare people that developed it at a young age. It spreads fast in your late thirties/forties, and by the time physical symptoms become noticeable, it is quite likely that the disease will already be terminal. The doctor may well have fucked up, but since prostate cancer is rare at that age, and the symptoms can also be caused by much more common problems, it’s perhaps not hugely surprising that it was undiagnosed for a while. Also, a digital rectal examination is by no means infallible; it only probes the back of the prostate. Again, prostate cancer found by DRE also tends to be advanced.

Personally, I think it’s ridiculous to even suggest that FZ was murdered by somehow giving him cancer, but I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’m no clinical expert, but working with cancer data for the NHS is my day job, and I’ve learned a lot from my ex-cancer nurse line manager! I think Occam’s Razor applies here: the most likely (and the most depressing) explanation is that FZ was just unlucky. It happens.

(edit - fixing typos and removing the "Was Frank Zappa murdered? Possibly, but highly unlikely" - I'd rather not even say "possibly").

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Last edited by mil on Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:19 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:07 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
Shouldn't Elvis be on that list, somewhere?


How about Amelia Earhart? Oh, nevermind, that was aliens. And she might not even be dead.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:25 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
Do you think he was murdered MGG?

No. Not necessarily. But it doesn't mean I would be surprised if we learned that he was...

calvin2hikers wrote:
If so, do you have a shred of proof?


Gee. Don't need to be so tight about it! This is not a CIA torture session, nor a rocket science exam... This is a harmless thread in a section entitled Legends, Myths and Fantasies. I thought that if such a bizarre topic would have to surface, that this would be the right place.


calvin2hikers wrote:
Why discuss it if not?


AAAFNRAA

What are you, the forum police?

Besides, I don't doubt the possibility of such a scenario... I'd like to see other people's opinion on the subject. Is anything wrong with it? Would you excuse me please?

As Mr Vaxxine has showed there is room for alternative interpretations of the fact of his death (even if it is plain wrong).

calvin2hikers wrote:
This thread was started by YOU, and I haven't heard a thing yet that would authenticate a claim.


What claim? That was a question! It is a provocative question. I knew I would stir heavy skepticism, but it is not my goal to disturb you in a way one could have a stroke, so please, cool down...

calvin2hikers wrote:
Do you have any FACTS? Of course, it's going to come down to something our government did, and gee, we just can't prove it, right?


Man, don't be so sensitive about govt conspiracies... They do exist cal, whether you like it or not. Ask Fowl...

calvin2hikers wrote:
Do you think it's possible he just died of cancer?


Yes.

calvin2hikers wrote:
Are you going to give a straight answer or just deflect it off on something else again?


Again, as in another time? When?

What is this anyway? An interrogatory? Will you answer me as well?... Gee, we look like jimmie and baddy!

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Did I offend you with my question?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:33 am 
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Yawn.

Okay, whatever. Before you misrepresent what my "tone" is again, I'll let you have your playtime.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:00 pm 
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It's not beyond the realms of fantasy.

"and what do we do to those poeple, we shut them up"


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:31 pm 
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Maybe the question, whether FZ was murdered, is worth a letter to the editor of Weekly World News. They're specialised in those kind of problems:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:00 pm 
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lol, good one Fritz
Saddam Hussein discovered working as a janitor in high school!

That was an actual title in there once....for shame!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:12 pm 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Seriously...

Lumpy Gravy wrote:
I'm not gonna say anything...


. . .after reading the following, I can't even come up with anything to say;

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
As far as I am aware Frank has been politically outspoken since always. The Porn Wars affair was pretty much middle 80s. Some people might not have liked a lot of this eloquent, intelligent personality actively questioning the govt's/medias oligopoly's positions so articulately. Five, 4, 2 years or even less time, is plenty for a large tumor to develop...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:24 pm 
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fucking idiots

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:25 am 
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Got this as a private message earlier in this thread:

Mr X wrote:
This doesn't seem like a thread that's going to stay on the board for too long but it's a topic worthy of research.

(...)

So many players with so many motives.

You are on the right track and it's not an occam's razor situation either.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:07 am 
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two pages and this is still going on..... lets go for 3.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:28 pm 
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I can't believe that some of you don't question some things in life. How the fuck did you end up getting into Frank if you're not even slightly sceptical?


Last edited by rumour man on Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:42 pm 
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rumour man wrote:
I can't believe that some of you don't question some things in life. How the fuck did you end up getting into Frank if you're no even slightly sceptical?

He had some nice tunes.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:54 pm 
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just plain doug wrote:
rumour man wrote:
I can't believe that some of you don't question some things in life. How the fuck did you end up getting into Frank if you're no even slightly sceptical?

He had some nice tunes.
Me too but after digging a little further you didn't learn that he was a master sceptic and an unbeliever of 'the truth'?


Last edited by rumour man on Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:00 pm 
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I just don't see any motivation to kill Zappa. Sure, he was outspoken, but in the grand Corporate Government Nightmare Machine, he was barely a blip on the radar screen. I hope I'm not being insensitive when I say that theorizing about a plot of any sort to kill Zappa is giving him a bit too much credit. He's a big deal to people like us, but most people in the world just have a passing knowledge of Zappa as a pornographer with a baton. If it were an isolated loony like Mark David Chapman, that's one thing, but a governmental plot? Doctors purposely misdiagnosing? I never even fathomed such a thing. One can be sceptical about "The Truth" we're fed by the media, and I am to some degree, more than the average joe certainly, but theorizing like this just doesn't make much sense to me.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:26 pm 
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feetlightup, who the F knows who he pissed off mate. Maybe him being a blip on the radar made him an even easier target for some power crazed twat, you never heard of teh bowler hats and spiked umbrellas? (not literally of course)

I guess I just feel gutted that he's dead and I want answers. He's my one and only true hero in the World.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:38 pm 
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Exposure to a radioactive source (for example via ingestion) is far more likely to cause leukaemia, lung, skin, breast, thyroid or liver cancer; organs react differently to ionizing radiation. The prostate is considered to be rather insensitive to radiation exposure. It seems hugely unlikely that a successful CIA-approved attempt to spike FZ's food or whatever with a radioactive substance would have led to prostate cancer rather than the ones listed above.

Not to mention, as feetlightup says, why bother?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:01 pm 
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A radioactive source was only an example. A possible culprit. There are N carcinogenic frightening little substances known to science:

Acetaldehyde
2-Acetylaminofluorene
Acrylamide
Acrylonitrile
Aldrin
4-Aminodiphenyl
Amitrole
Aniline and homologs
o-Anisidine
p-Anisidine
Arsenic and inorganic arsenic compounds
Arsine
Asbestos
Asphalt fumes
Benzene
Benzidine
Benzidine-based dyes
Beryllium
Butadiene
tert-Butyl chromate; class, chromium hexavalent
Cadmium dust and fume
Captafol
Captan
Carbon black (exceeding 0.1% PAHs)
Carbon tetrachloride
Chlordane
Chlorinated camphene
Chlorodiphenyl (42% chlorine); class polychlorinated biphenyls
Chlorodiphenyl (54% chlorine); class polychlorinated biphenyls
Chloroform
Chloromethyl methyl ether
bis(Chloromethyl) ether
B-Chloroprene
Chromium, hexavalent [Cr(VI)]
Chromyl chloride; class, chromium hexavalent
Chrysene
Coal tar pitch volatiles; class, coal tar products
Coke oven emissions
DDT (dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane)
Di-2-ethylhexyl phthalate (DEHP)
2,4-Diaminoanisoleo
o-Dianisidine-based dyes
1,2-Dibromo-3-chloropropane (DBCP)
Dichloroacetylene
p-Dichlorobenzene
3,3'-Dichlorobenzidine
Dichloroethyl ether
1,3-Dichloropropene
Dieldrin
Diesel exhaust
Diglycidyl ether (DGE); class, glycidyl ethers
4-Dimethylaminoazobenzene
Dimethyl carbomoyl chloride
1,1-Dimethylhydrazine; class, hydrazines
Dimethyl sulfate
Dinitrotoluene
Dioxane
Environmental tobacco smoke
Epichlorohydrin
Ethyl acrylate
Ethylene dibromide
Ehtylene dichloride
Ethylene oxide
Ethyleneimine
Ethylene thiourea
Formaldehyde
Gallium arsenide
Gasoline
Heptachlor
Hexachlorobutadiene
Hexachloroethane
Hexamethyl phosphoric triamide (HMPA)
Hydrazine
Kepone
Malonaldehyde
Methoxychlor
Methyl bromide; class, monohalomethanes
Methyl chloride
Methyl iodide; class, monohalomethanes
Methyl hydrazine; class, hydrazines
4,4'-Methylenebis(2-chloroaniline) (MBOCA)
Methylene chloride
4,4-Methylenedianiline (MDA)
a-Naphylamine
B-Naphylamine
Nickel, metal, soluble, insoluble, and inorganic; class, nickel, inorganic
Nickel carbonyl
Nickel sulfide roasting
4-Nitrobiphenyl
p-Nitrochlorobenzene
2-Nitronaphthalene
2-Nitropropane
N-Nitrosodimethylamine
Pentachloroethane; class, chloroethanes
N-Phenyl-b-naphthylamine; class, b-naphthalene
Phenyl glycidyl ether; class, glycidyl ethers
Phenylhydrazine; class, hydrazines
Propane Sultone
B-Propiolactone
Propylene dichloride
Proplyene imine
Propylene oxide
Radon
Rosin core solder, pyrolysis products (containing formaldehyde)
Silica, crystalline cristobalite
Silica, crystalline quartz
Silica, crystalline tripoli
Silica, crystalline tridymite
silica, fused
Soapstone, total dust silicates
Tremolite silicates
2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin (TCDD) (dioxin)
1,1,2,2-Tetrachloroethane
Tetrachloroethylene
Titanium dioxide
o-Tolidine-based dyes
o-Tolidine
Toluene diisocyanate (TDI)
Toluene diamine (TDA)
o-Toluidine
p-Toluidine
1,1,2-Trichloroethane; class, chloroethanes
Trichloroethylene
1,2,3-Trichloropropane
Uranium, insoluble compounds Uranium, soluble compounds
Vinyl bromide; class, vinyl halides
Vinyl chloride
Vinyl cyclohexene dioxide
Vinylidene chloride (1,1-dichloroethylene); class, vinyl halides)
Welding fumes, total particulates
Wood dust
Zinc chromate; class, chromium hexavalent

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:02 pm 
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Like I said, it's not up to us to try and understand why someone takes a grievance?
Why would anyone kill Hicks?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:11 pm 
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Uh.........Check Please!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll:

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Galoot Co-Log-Nuh wrote:
Uh.........Check Please!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll:

Calm down, Galoot, he is "Rumour Man", after all. What else would he say?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:47 pm 
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Location: Attempt the absurd to achieve the impossible
The Da Vinci Code
C. Everett Koop
The A.M.A and Republicans
The Song "Flakes"

Work your way backwards and connect the dots and fill in the blanks. Tell no-one what you find. Your own life is in danger for even raising this, but it's too late to turn back now.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:15 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
HJ wrote:
Next equally serious question: Did Gail compose all Franks music? And was Frank actually just a puppet, because nobody would take a woman's compositional skills seriously? Can we be sure that it was not Gail that programmed the synclavier? Can we? She had access to it. She lived in the house. I mean all the evidence points towards her. SHE is a bona fide American Composer. SHE should have a bust in Bad Doberan!!!! We cannot be sure that Scully and Mulder are not already on the case. Can you prove they are not?


This is the typical Ad Hominen line of argumentation... So my question is not serious because you don't judge it as such. I would ask you with which authority you claim that, but I already asked you to not come back, so please never mind. And it is not like each member's opinion don't matter: I enjoy hearing opposing views (although I don't take party on the alternative view here, I am only playing the alternate view's advocate), as long as they won't involve simply insulting me for what I believe or what want to know. I don't feel like taking this poor kind of straw men attack just because you think you are so omniscient... It is my question, and the most dumb you may think it is... I don't give a shit, I am not ashamed to ask it here, where I feel it is appropriate.



Hey MGG, why get the shits over HJ's post? It is just as likely a scenario as yours.....and also humorous.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:35 am 
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NO, based on general "urban legends", if you like, many prominent outspoken artist were victims of selective elimination: Mark Chapman would have been a brainwashed agent programed to kill JL. Bob Marley was given a boot with a poisoned needle... Although I am not supporting any of those claims myself, they were put forth at some point by some one, seriously or otherwise. For smaller you might think this possibility is, it was raised by independent minds, due to the nature of the system. Selective murders do occur, you only need to read the papers to know about it: ex. the Russian spy in England recently...

Now claiming "humorously" that Gail composed all the stuff is an attempt to ridicule my question. Never heard that Yoko or Rita were their respective composers either...

Now the only thing I want to stand for with this thread is my natural right to discuss this here, with whoever is available and willing to discuss it, without having to worry about people with a mind so shut about alternative hypothesis of historical facts that if they would depend on it for jumping from a plane, they would be in serious trouble! Some of you lack so much imagination and live in a world of static absolute truths that feel impelled to vehemently disagree with different views, but in lack of better argumentation within the range of the subject, feels strongly like in order to win the hand, they must expose the "opponent" into a ridicule situation. Some of you do it by calling names and posting mentally-ill people's pictures, but some of you create a dreamy little scenario in attempt to attribute this as the other guys idea. This is a poor straw man fallacy.

Everyone here like jokes, we are Zappa fans. But few will take jokes with them so lightly... Cheers!

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