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I think it's funny how those guys hated each other, yet fans of the share a lot of the same fans. They make up for each others shortcomings, Zappa with his musicianship and Reed with his songwriting skills. If they had a baby, it would be the ugliest hermaphrodite, but it'd write wicked ass songs

[quote author=SatanicYakuza link=board=legends;num=1046533936;start=0#0 date=03/01/03 at 07:52:15]I think it's funny how those guys hated each other, yet fans of the share a lot of the same fans. They make up for each others shortcomings, Zappa with his musicianship and Reed with his songwriting skills. If they had a baby, it would be the ugliest hermaphrodite, but it'd write wicked ass songs[/quote]<br>I don't know anything about what are you talking about.<br>I'm a Reed's fan too and I'm interested in what you are saying. Could you make me some examples?<br><br>Ciao

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[quote author=MIZZU link=board=legends;num=1046533936;start=0#1 date=03/01/03 at 14:50:02]<br>I don't know anything about what are you talking about.<br>I'm a Reed's fan too and I'm interested in what you are saying. Could you make me some examples?<br><br>Ciao[/quote]<br><br>Ok Mizzu, as part of your answer I'm going to quote from Frank Zappa - A Visual Documentary By Miles (1993):<br><br>"May 3-29, 1966...Double bill opening for Andy Warhol's Exploding Plastic Inevitable with The Velvet Underground and Nico at The Trip, Los Angeles. The hometown crowd naturally cheered The Mothers and booed the Velvets whose sombre black New York outfits didn't fit in with the garish Califorian freaks. The Byrds, Jim Morrison (still at UCLA film school at the time) Sonny and Cher, and Mama Cass were all in the audience for the opening night. Lou Reed developed a seething hatred for Zappa: 'He's probably the single most untalented person I've heard in my life. He's two-bit, pretentious, academic, and he can't play rock and roll because he's a loser. And that's why he dresses up funny. He's not happy with himself and I think he's right.'  This is because Zappa would make fun of the Velvets as part of his stage rap...'These guys really suck'. It's hard to imagine how the Velvets and The Mothers could have shared the bill for the whole month without violence occurring."<br><br>Now I'm not sure about this, but I think Reed continued to make negative comments about Frank throughout his career...and also, in an example of astonishing irony, Lou Reed was asked to give the introductory speech to Frank's induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, despite Gail's protests (my source for this is an interview with Gail in the October, 1995, issue of Musician Magazine). Moon accepted the award, as she was the only Zappa family member to attend the ceremony. Gail did say that Reed called her and apologized prior to the induction.<br><br>Anyway, hope that helps.<br><br>PS- I like the Velvets too, unpopular as it may seem at this point.<br>

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[quote author=MentalTossFlycoon link=board=legends;num=1046533936;start=0#6 date=03/01/03 at 17:57:28]<br>Certainly they could have found someone who had a bit more in common with Frank.<br><br>[/quote]<br><br>In the same Oct, 1995, Musician Mag interview with Gail, she stated that she had wanted Johnny "Guitar" Watson to make the presentation but was told by the R&RHOF Board that they couldn't rely on him. <br>

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reed was a doper..<br><br><br>From: John Henley <jhenley@mail.utexas.edu> <br>"Also, at the same time, I get to work with the Velvet Underground, which is as shitty a group as Frank Zappa's group."  <br>  Spoken by recording engineer Gary Kellgren, and no doubt reflecting his true personal opinion. ("Kellgren, who cordially despises Zappa's music..." from Walley's book, paraphrased from memory) Included by Frank as being suitably irreverent. <br><br>From: robert@sybase.com (Robert Garvey) <br>  I'm not sure of the origin of this animosity, but first became aware of it when leafing through a book of rock 'n roll quotes. There was one from Lou Reed about playing the theatre in London where Zappa had been pitched into the orchestra pit 1971 and how much pleasure he got thinking about that.  <br>  Another good quote in that book was about Lou Reed. I can't remember the source, but that person said that it was about a decade between good Lou Reed songs.  <br>

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Being a Newbie I have to learn to realize this is a biased side, I guess. I'm a huge fan of both Lou Reed fan and Frank Zappa. Opposites attract.<br><br>FZ is at his best when he uses as many notes as possible. He's a true composer in the neo-classical sense. In a 100 years from people will still listen to the Bogus Pomp and Pedro's Dowry, to name a few. The brilliance of his music is in its complicity.<br><br>Reed excels in the simplism of R&R. Listen to a stripped down version of Sweet Jane and you'll know what I mean. The brilliance of his music in is its simplicity. <br><br>Lyrically there's no comparison either, with Lou being the poetic observer and FZ being the realistic commentator who cannot help but be sarcastic and critical.<br><br>When I want to listen to R&R in its purest sence, I'll put on Waiting For My Man and not "Suicide Chump". <br><br>And when I want to listen to creative, innovating music I listen to Sleep Dirt and not Metal Machine Music.<br><br>Opposites attract. Both were very passionate about their art. It is therefore understandable that someone who advocates the 3-chord wonder has a dislike for the composer of Brown Shoes. And vice versa. But I'm sure that over the years they've learned to appreciate each other. In fact, in Victor Bokris' biography of Lou, the latter says some very positive things about FZ.  

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Ronny, yoiu're not gonna tell me that songs "Sofa" and "RDNZL" are as simplistic as, let's say, "New Age" or "Xmas in February"? Please, don't start comparing, you are embarrassing yourself. In its original form "Torture" (the Beefheart version) is a rather simple song (it must be, even I can play it). But listen to the rendition on "The Best Band..." and experience how it has evolved into something quite a bit more complicated. Nothing wrong with that, of course.<br><br>Even on Zappa's simplest of R&R tunes ("Suicide Chump", for example) Zappa and the band cannot help themselves from noodling a bit.  Again, nothing wrong with that.<br><br>Yes, I prefer the more complicated Zappa of  "Lumpy Gravy" and "Orchestral Favorites"  (a.o.).to the more 'poppy" Zappa of a rather poor album like "Apostrophe'". It is not only a personal matter: he   IS at his musically brilliant best when doing that stuff. There's no post WW-II composer who can be called his equal in this particular category.<br><br>Being biased is an expression of admiration and affection. Being extremely biased means obession, eventually resulting in discrimination. Be careful, buddy.

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When I say "brilliant best" I refer to the more complicated Zappa and not to Apostrophe. Sorry if I didn't make that completely clear.<br><br>And maybe I should have said of Apostrophe that it is a  'relatively' poor album. Cosmic Debris, Uncle Remus, and ....breakfast are excellent tunes, but Yellow Snow, Nanook, O'Blivion and Stinkfoot are musically poor songs (relatively) and the intended humour is simply not funny.<br><br>Is there a topic like "Zappa's worst" or something? If I had to make a bottom 5, Apostrophe would be a candidate for top spot, along with Tinseltown and Jazz From Hell.  

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