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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:37 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
Am I the only one who has zero interest in hearing this? Sounds like a boring jam.
Lumpy Gravy wrote:
I don't care about it either.
apparently, fz joined them on 'interstellar overdrive'.
me and my friends used to jam on that for hours on end back in the 70s.
what's the big deal? :twisted:
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
... you thought you were FZ and your pals thought they were the Floyd. Poor old sod...

yeah, like we knew back then, that this festival had even taken place... :roll:

and, if I was anyone, I was nick mason, since I played the drums most of the time in those days.

I first learned about the festival in 1992. zappa talked about it in the 'zappa' magazine which I bought that year.
he didn't mention jamming with pink floyd, though. that embarrassing detail (for fz) showed up here.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:11 pm 
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I think Frank's idea of an impromptu jam in a tent with The Pink Floyd, was decidedly different to a formal "performance" and to say he performed with them was maybe considered jumping on the Floyd bandwagon, also maybe it infringed certain contractual agreements? Food for thought..

Here's what Frank has to say about Amougies '69!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0gTtFE7NSo


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:00 pm 
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I don't think it could have violated a contract for him to say that he jammed with Floyd. Now if he had tried to release a recording of it, it could have.

More likely he just didn't think it was special at the time, and forgot when asked about it decades later.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:28 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
I don't think it could have violated a contract for him to say that he jammed with Floyd. Now if he had tried to release a recording of it, it could have.

More likely he just didn't think it was special at the time, and forgot when asked about it decades later.


And Roger and Dave would have argued about it for another 10 years.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:30 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
More likely he just didn't think it was special at the time,


Exactly, his memory of it was I think just a bit of a jam, and a million miles away from "performing" with Floyd, which was the question he was asked. Imagine how many people Frank jammed and performed with in his career, ageing blurred memories have a lot to answer for..


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:52 am 
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Hmmm... FZ in 1989 knowingly denied performing with Pink Floyd? Interesting. Probably not: as Nick Mason stating that FZ was one of the few, if not the only external musician to have performed with the Pink Floyd; with an observation FZ seemed to have the rare ability to 'be just right' with the English gents. And he would know as he was keeping time on the drums. Any way this probably cannot be answered now. There are enough photo's and contemporary accounts which prove FZ jammed with the Floyd, so FZ is wrong for any number of reasons. I for one will hope to see the film which does exist (perhaps it's in the Bob Monkhouse archive!)

Another excellent discovery Reddimot.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:57 pm 
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That recording that surfaced a few years ago clearly is Zappa playing with Floyd, and for that matter he played with five or six other bands at Amougies that he didn't remember in that 1989 interview.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:02 am 
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I heard a interview somewhere where FZ said 15000 people in a tent,Now i ain't no tent expert but that seems a lot of people too fit in a tent.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:45 pm 
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from previous page...
Lumpy Gravy wrote:
Quote:
matt groening: and you went to europe?
frank zappa: I was supposed to be mc for the first big rock festival in france, at a time when the french government was very right-wing, and they didn't want to have large-scale rock and roll in the country. and so at the last minute, this festival was moved from france to belgium, right across the border, into a turnip field. they constructed a tent, which was held up by these enormous girders. they had 15,000 people in a big circus tent. this was in november, I think. the weather was really not very nice. it's cold, and it's damp, and it was in the middle of a turnip field. I mean mondo turnips. and all the acts, and all the people who wished to see these acts, were urged to find this location in the turnip field, and show up for this festival. and they'd hired me to be the mc and also to bring over captain beefheart. it was has first appearance over there. and it was a night-mare, because nobody could speak english, and I couldn't speak french, or anything else for that matter. so my function was really rather limited. I felt a little bit like linda mccartney. I'd stand there and go wave, wave, wave. I sat in with a few of the groups during the three days of the festival. but it was so miserable because all these european hippies had brought their sleeping bags, and they had the bags laid out on the ground in this tent, and they basically froze and slept through the entire festival, which went on 24 hours a day, around the clock. one of the highlights of the event was the art ensemble of chicago, which went on at 5:00 a.m. to an audience of slumbering euro-hippies.

link

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:23 am 
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The Don Menn and Simpsons man interview was I believe published twice. First in ZAPPA a special by the Guitar Player magazine whilst FZ was still alive, then: 'A definitive tribute to FRANK ZAPPA'

This posthumous issue was under the 'best of guitar player' umbrella. I think this came out in MAY 1994. I was after this issue for years and only recently found it. The interview was is 2 parts and FZ gave the audience in April 1992. The 2nd part of the 'Mother of all Interviews' included the Simpsons man; interestingly and on topic for this post is titled 'Belgian Waffles in Plastic' which is a reference to the cuisine at the festival:

MG: Tell about the hot dogs.
Oh, yeah. Because it was located in a turnip area, and far away from anything that you would call necessary supports for civilization, the menu was limited. The people who were attending this festival, including all the talent, had access to these foodstuffs: Belgian waffles in plastic - these puffy little waffles in plastic, you could have that - or you could have a hot dog. Now the hot dogs were kept in this tank. when I was a kid, they used to have these big tanks for Nehi beverages, you know, a rectangular tank full of water, and there would be drink bottles in it. Well, in this case, there was a tank full of these Belgian weenies. Now, some of them would float to the surface, and the tips that would stick out were green, and we don't know what color the material under the water was, but it was a tank of green weenies poking out, and you could either eat that or the Belgian waffles. And you couldn't send out for a pizza. You were in the middle of nowhere.

This is quite an informative FZ interview and well worth reading through. Try and obtain the issues in which this was printed as they managed to find unfamiliar foto's of FZ.

The tent was a circus tent, and according to Victor Brox who performed there with AD and FZ was the largest circus tent in Europe (I think the french may call this a barnum)

I think this topic from the FZ point of view is pretty exhausted and extremely limited now. It is clear he played (a borrowed telecaster) with Pink Floyd. What we need are other contemporary accounts.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:55 am 
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So Lumpy Gravy your saying 15000 is possible to get in a tent at the same time.
15000 People may have attended over the weekend yes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:02 am 
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cleon wrote:
So Lumpy Gravy your saying 15000 is possible to get in a tent at the same time.
15000 People may have attended over the weekend yes.

The bands presented at Roskilde Festival are traditionally a balanced mix of large well known artists in the absolute live elite, cutting-edge artists from all contemporary genres, popular crowd-pleasing acts plus local Scandinavian headliners and up-and-coming names. The special Roskilde feeling is in particular ensured by stages located inside large tents, catering to an enthusiastic music-loving audience. As opposed to most other European festivals all bands play "real" concerts lasting for at least an hour.

The stages were until 2003 named after their colour, but as the names had not matched the actual colour of the tents for a period, it was decided to rename all stages except the Orange Stage, the central and main stage. The Orange Stage is open in front of a huge field, whereas the other tents cover the whole audience, the largest of which is the Arena stage (formerly known as Green Stage), the largest tent in Europe with an official capacity of 17,000 people. The 2007 edition saw two new tents, replacing Ballroom (1997–2006) which presented mainly World music, and Metropol (2003–2006) which presented mainly Electronica. In 2010 two stages, Astoria (from 2007) and Lounge, did not return, due to a slight shift in focus towards fewer, but bigger bands.

The music covers such styles as rock, Hip Hop, Metal, urban, electronica and 3rd world contemporary music. It has become a tradition to let an up-and-coming Scandinavian band open the Orange Stage on the first day of the festival. There are often surprising performances by classical acts, film-music, opera etc.

http://www.roskilde-festival.dk/uk/music/stages/

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:15 pm 
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Captain Beefheart - Live In Belgium 1969
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAoPhVn4y1Q

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
Quote:
frank zappa: they had 15,000 people in a big circus tent.

link
cleon wrote:
So Lumpy Gravy your saying 15000 is possible to get in a tent at the same time.
15000 People may have attended over the weekend yes.
I didn't say it. frank zappa did.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:51 pm 
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Hi,

There is no reason that Frank, or anyone else, might not have jam'd with Pink Floyd ... specially in the early days before DSOTM hit it big, when they were having some fun with some improvisations, still, which would have allowed for some folks to play along and do somethingwith it. During and after DSOTM, all that died due to the technical design of the shows and all the movies and lights and sets and what not.

If you catch the film "Live in Pompeii", you can see where there is a chance for some folks to have fun and enjoy playing along and doing something different. The photo that we see, suggests it was even before then, right about the time that Saucerful of Secrets, leading to Ummaguma came out ... that more folks did not join them, is the funny issue, but it is/was clear why ... when I saw them at 1972 Hollywood Bowl show, it was already the quadraphonic sound and the big show ... and it is hard to burn up all that on a band that is just playing some simple doodah blues ... they would get boo'ed off stage if the audience was too stoned, which at the Hollywood Bowl concert ... was massive!

But Frank might have enjoyed and appreciated the serious coheseviness in the band ... if you have ever heard 15 to 20 different versions of Echoes on many of the bootlegs you know that they were tight ... or the 15 to 20 different versions of Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun ... they had some different things they did now and then, but the "basics" were all there and fairly clear ... I think they gave themselves some leeway for playing around and trying some different things, but still within the context of the piece itself.

However, considering Frank's predilection and use of popular stuff in a satirical way, specially in the early days with the shorter songs ... I'm not sure that he got serious about the music experience until a bit later, and bands like Pink Floyd might have helped him define his own "serious music" thing ... which I doubt any Frank "official" anything or other, would ever admit! I don;t think it was just Varese ... that helped ... seeing other bands do long cuts and try to do more with their music, I'm sure had an impression on him --- however little that impression might have taken or come from.

I was just thinking that Faust, in one of its albums (Tapes) complimented Frank ... and in the end, that German scene was just as bombastic and off the wall as Frank ... and it didn't need the lyrics to shock anyone ... which is probably why "krautrock" ended up being ignored and Frank is still remembered ... they should have insulted more people for their weewees or the british superiority/imperialistic complexes!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:03 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Captain Beefheart - Live In Belgium 1969
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAoPhVn4y1Q

That clip is on the Grow Fins box also. You can see Frank on the stage left, smoking, around 4.20. I like the jam with the Floyd, it's one of the better versions of Interstellar Overdrive I've heard, in spite of poor sound.

Moshkito, Krautrock is still remembered and enjoyed - this Easter I picked up a cassette of Tago Mago and it made for great listening in the car. A lot of people like that music still.

I think Zappa was more open to other people's music early in his career. In fact I read an interview from around 1973 where he made a point of narrowing down his listening habits, because he didn't want to be influenced by others. Bad decision, I think.

I didn't hear Meddle until I had absorbed Apostrophe ('), but when I finally heard the Pink Floyd album it got me wondering if the wind effects at the start of the Nanook suite might be a direct parody of the opening of Meddle. Other parallells: I never cared for sports - You'll never walk alone; Seamus - Fido. Echoes - Excentrifugal Forz?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:59 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
And Roger and Dave would have argued about it for another 10 years.


LOL. Best comment in this thread, so far :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:35 am 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
...
Moshkito, Krautrock is still remembered and enjoyed - this Easter I picked up a cassette of Tago Mago and it made for great listening in the car. A lot of people like that music still.
...


I don't think that you will find a more loving and caring person talking about Krautrock than myself ... and you can find a lot of it on the progarchives board that I don't frequent any more.

There are some inspirations that are important. San Francisco (so to speak) is a very big thing for the likes of Guru Guru and total experimentation ... even stoned. If there was a band that deserved having played at the Fillmore with Ax Gernrich, Guru Guru was it ... and there is a nice interview with Helmut Hattler that even said that on a couple of occasions they were stoned, on stage, and looked at each other ... and said ... now what? ... and then someone, or something would come up and they would follow it, or work with it ... surely you can see that in the 1st three albums ... all of them massive, and many times I have said, that this would have been what Jimi Hendrix would have liked to do and play, if he had not been forced to play "blues" ... or had met Bootsie Collins!

Amon Duul 2 mentions the "dead" folks in 2 songs ... and specially in "Explode Like a Star" ... and there is no doubt that they loved the California music big time ... to the point where Grace Slick even made fun of AD2 and Renate ... sort of, in one album ... and it was funny!

These people all came from pure jamming, a commune, and the albums that are sold as "Amon Duul" (the early one, before it morphed into Amon Duul 2) are all just jams in a living room and basically a drum/rock circle ... a la Grateful Dead (joke!) if you will. It could be said that AD2, decided to take this stuff an make it more meaningful than just a jam with no direction or desire to do, and say anything, in a time when it became VERY IMPORTANT to speak out against the establishment because it was corrupt and screwed up! While also clamoring for "change".

You could easily say, Frank did the same thing in his own way!

Pink Floyd took that experimental phase until they probably got bored and found something better to do than jam aimlessly every night ... and become a pop band! Krautrock, did not exactly lose this idea, and kept on doing it, albeit it was starting to get stale a bit, and no new names were appearing that had the same ferocity as Faust, Can, AD2, Guru Guru and the AshRaTempel/Klaus Schulze family of music. The 2nd generation was about "songs" and trying to get commercial ... and you had Scorpions, Jane, Eloy, Grobbschnitt and others ... and there is a funny thing you gotta do ... grab Scorpions 2nd album (Fly to the Rainbow) ... then play Apocaliptyc Bore from Vive La Trance (AD2) and immediately play the title cut of that Scorpions album, supposedly recorded in the same place. One tells you the drugs are over and it's time for something else ... and the other ... tells you to go get stoned and fly ... and Scorpions did! AD2 never jammed again! The Yeti's were over! The Fillmore in Germany had died!

I think that Frank was sensitive enough to know these things ... he travelled enough to know these things existed and that people did different things ... wether he wanted to spend time playing with others might not have been as important as the fact that he created a lot of stuff on tapes that he himself wanted to play with ... and had not figured out how to play with yet, is my guess ... so trying to play a few notes with someone else might not have been as important for him ... but that's not to say that he might not have enjoyed the free form Syd doing Interstellar Overdrive ... but I think that it gave Frank a better sense of direction musically than just do radio/tv parodies that were 2 and 3 minute pieces that really did not showcase musicality as much as it did the craziness all around. And I think that it was about this time that Frank figured out that the stuff had to get longer and better developed than just a satirical song ... which he could still have ... and continued to be the main emphasyz since then ... but sadly, takes away from his compositional genius that so very few understand and appreciate. In the end, too many of us are more interested in the rock star and glorious guitar player than we are in the compositional side of things and how he colored it with his own instrument ... and that is sad, and probably one of the main reasons why he trashed so many people and fans for not allwing him the freedom to be himself and creative!

Frank will never be appreciated by the classic music folks as long as we only think of him as a rock guitar hero ... because the classic music history is not about guitar heroes ... is about the music itself! ... and we're not standing up for the music itself.

Times changed ... the few years of total free form were now gone ... and some magazine started saying that London's groups were progressive and American stuff didn't count ... but that is no excuse for us to not credit and raise the consciousness of the great composers that America has ... and pardom ne, but fuck the progressive London bullshit ... it has absolutely nothing in the way of originality that California and Frank had not already done!


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