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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:11 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2b ... _embedded#

here is a video that explains the world's most important 6-sec drum loop
It gives credit to The Winstons with their 1969 song Amen, Brother.

Well... I was listening to Return of the Son of Monster Magnet and that drum beat sounded very familiar to me. For the first minute or so, the beat is very close to the one in amen brother, but it really becomes the same beat at around 1:15.

It seems like we can credit Zappa with another "First" , having come up with the drum beat 3 years prior to the Winstons.

What do you guys think?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:39 pm 
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I get your point but I think the guy in the video is right.
You're saying the drum pattern of TROFSOTMM and in ARMEN BREAK (the composition) have similarities and you're correct.
But the guy is stating that its the actual WINSTONS record that has been sampled (and used ad nauseum), not the FREAK OUT album.
You're talking about plagiarism, or at least saying that the WINSTONS copied or were inspired by something Zappa had played.
He is talking about the digital recording of a drum loop on a vinyl.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:29 am 
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Great loop, rivalled only by "Funky Drummer":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funky_Drummer

Thanks for linking to the YouTube clip!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:58 am 
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What about Tomorrow Never Knows?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:38 am 
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A_Peach_En_Regalia wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac&feature=player_embedded#

here is a video that explains the world's most important 6-sec drum loop
It gives credit to The Winstons with their 1969 song Amen, Brother.

Well... I was listening to Return of the Son of Monster Magnet and that drum beat sounded very familiar to me. For the first minute or so, the beat is very close to the one in amen brother, but it really becomes the same beat at around 1:15.

It seems like we can credit Zappa with another "First" , having come up with the drum beat 3 years prior to the Winstons.

What do you guys think?


Kinda cool but this is one of the most rudimentary drum beats known to man. To attribute the pattern to the Winstons is a major stretch. To suggest that rap and hip-hop sampled the Winstons' recording to the hilt, as others have noted, isn't.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Giacomelli the Younger wrote:
What about Tomorrow Never Knows?

not a loop. ringo played it all through the song.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:12 pm 
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This shit reminds me of a Joke "which loose nut on a bike is the most important" the loss one 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:45 pm 
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I think I heard it in a Bach etude.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:17 am 
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A couple of years ago, my doctor let me use his stethoscope to listen to my heart beat.
It sounded just like that.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:16 pm 
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Interesting! But not that close to Freak Out! I think this beat has a bit more funky edge than JCB's drumming (
or whoever it is on FO)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:34 pm 
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HJ wrote:
Interesting! But not that close to Freak Out! I think this beat has a bit more funky edge than JCB's drumming (
or whoever it is on FO)
Sorry, but I disagree. It's very close to the drum beat on Help I'm A Rock. And this brings me to my next point: that video about sampling makes some really good points, but to suggest that The Winstons could somehow claim copyright on a simple drum break, which they clearly weren't the first to play and that was probably played by many drummers at the time and previously, is just a joke. And, the fact that you and I can easily disagree on this shows how difficult it would be to copyright a drum beat.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:23 am 
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polydigm wrote:
HJ wrote:
Interesting! But not that close to Freak Out! I think this beat has a bit more funky edge than JCB's drumming (
or whoever it is on FO)
Sorry, but I disagree. It's very close to the drum beat on Help I'm A Rock. And this brings me to my next point: that video about sampling makes some really good points, but to suggest that The Winstons could somehow claim copyright on a simple drum break, which they clearly weren't the first to play and that was probably played by many drummers at the time and previously, is just a joke. And, the fact that you and I can easily disagree on this shows how difficult it would be to copyright a drum beat.


I don't think you can claim copyright on a drum beat, but as others have noted, someone will own the rights to the recording. A lot of rhythms are pretty generic, and these days it's not too difficult to approximate very closely a rhythm/drum beat in software, so sampling an old record is pretty redundant, but 20 years ago sampling technology was limited to short 1-2 secs samples, so doing that mixing 2 deck stuff was the only option.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:40 pm 
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Right. You can't copyright a beat, but you can copyright your recorded performance, which is what these people all ripped off from The Winstons record. Here's how it works:

Mechanical Rights
Mechanical Rights, which are aquired from music publishers and copyright holders, give you the right to record, manufacture and distribute another copyright holder's musical work. Songwriters and publishers also receive payments from mechanical licenses. A mechanical license is written permission from the publisher to manufacture and distribute a record, CD or audio tape for a specific copyrighted composition. The amount of the royalty paid to a songwriter from a mechanical license is determined by how many recordings are sold.

Mechanical rights, although similar, are not to be confused with "master rights" or with "performance rights". "Master Rights" are granted by a record company in order to use an existing recording, while "performance rights" are granted by publishers or societies for the public performance of a song. Depending on the actual use of the copyright, you may need to obtain these additional rights, as well as the mechanical license.

What are Master Use Rights?
Master use rights are required for previously recorded material that you do not own or control. They can only be obtained from the owner of the master recording, usually a record company. It is recommended that you obtain the master use license from the owner prior to requesting a mechanical license.


What is a Sample?
A sample can be defined as the use of an excerpt of pre-recorded material within another recording. Sampling requires a master use right
(see above).

Source: http://www.worldwideocr.com/Rights_Mechanical_FAQ.asp

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:54 am 
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Again - I doubt that it's as "important"/famous as Funky Drummer or Tomorrow Never Knows - or (you've forgotten this one), the one from Gary Numan's Films


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