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 Post subject: FRANK ZAPPA AND JAZZ
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:48 am
Posts: 112
Location: NY
ARE JAZZ MUSIC A BIGGEST ZAPPA INFLUENCE TO COMPOSITIONS WITH DIALOGUES (FREE JAZZ AND AVANT GARDE SCHOOLS/ARCHIE SHEPP/SUN RA/ETC...)OR IT´S A SIMPLY COINCIDENCE?

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 Post subject: Re: FRANK ZAPPA AND JAZZ
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:47 am
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Location: Netherlands
Hmm.. I don't understand the exact question here but FZ was obviously influenced by jazz musicians and composers as well as classical composers, bluesmen, doo-wop etc. <br><br>I think one of the first FZ compositions that really shows his jazz influence is 'King Kong' on Uncle Meat. The Mothers play the 'head' or main melody and after that it's a free-for-all improvisation-fest, it's a typical jazz structure I guess. <br><br>Too bad none of FZ's compositions ever became real jazz standards as far as I know (at least, I've never heard them called at a jam session, unfortunately...), but a couple of them are transcribed in the original Real Book. <br><br>I read in Ben Watson's book that 'Nefertiti' by Miles Davis was one of Frank's favorite albums.

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"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. You can never capture it again." -- Eric Dolphy


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 Post subject: Re: FRANK ZAPPA AND JAZZ
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 2:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 11:28 am
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I agree with Studebaker, also "You Call That Music?" from YCDTOSA is at its core everythig freeform jazz was all about.


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 Post subject: Re: FRANK ZAPPA AND JAZZ
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 3:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 6:21 am
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Location: Cologne, Germany
I think he just liked the possibilities the jazz structures broght with them. he wouldn`t call it jazz when he played his "jazz-like" tunes. He wasn`t very much into such categories. He loved music n general. Later on, by accident people discovered that an album like Hot Rats or a song like King Kong was sort of like jazz (in it`S own perculiar way...) <br>Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny.  ;)

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 Post subject: Re: FRANK ZAPPA AND JAZZ
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 11:03 am
Posts: 29
8)TO me, don´t have any doubts of any nature about the relationship between zappa and the jazz. Certainly Archie Shepp and Eric Dolphy represents a big influence to FZ, not just in a music phase, but in your musical formation as a composer or player. The free form improvisations promoved by the Mothers isn't the only way here; in all the FRANK ZAPPA musical structure is very strong the soul of blues and the sofistication of jazz, even in the ensembles constructions, the vocals elements or guitar solos.<br>FRANK ZAPPA never talk clearly about it, but is just hear your work. 8) 8)


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 Post subject: Re: FRANK ZAPPA AND JAZZ
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 2:19 am 
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That might be true for the majority of his compositions. However, I can think of a couple that were written to utilize flexible time, like 'Grand Wazoo' or 'Blessed Relief' (but correct me if I'm wrong, I'm definitely not an expert in musical theory). <br><br>I'd never call Zappa's music 'Jazz' in the traditional sense, although I still think he definitely was influenced by some jazz musicians as well as classical composers. And of course, he often used jazz musicians in his touring bands, so some 'jazz noises' were bound to show up in the music and especially the improvised solos. <br><br>There's a nice video clip of The Mothers playing 'King Kong' on BBC Television (if you haven't seen this yet, you can check it out here). The part that really cracks me up is when Zappa says something like: "We heard about how people in this land like traditional jazz", while the Mothers are playing some kind of 'fake swing' vamp. <br><br>

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"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. You can never capture it again." -- Eric Dolphy


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 Post subject: Re: FRANK ZAPPA AND JAZZ
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 5:03 am 
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I stand corrected. Pretty impressive analysis there, MTH, I read it while listening to GW. This is the stuff I love about these boards.

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"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. You can never capture it again." -- Eric Dolphy


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 Post subject: Re: FRANK ZAPPA AND JAZZ
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 3:02 pm
Posts: 122
I'd go so far as to say that the sheer variations in the improvisations are enough to qualify much of Zappa's music as jazz. Listen to the many different guitar solos from Inca Roads which made it on the Guitar and shut up...records. That's jazz to me


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