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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:44 pm 
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KillUgly wrote:
Moshkito wrote:
Hi,

It's just really boring to keep seeing this supposedly Christian edict going around that we have to be this and that and monogamous and jailed. I'm just so tired of that ... and sometimes I really think that some people are just jealous inside that someone got two girls, or 3 or 4, and I got none kinda of thing.

According to some mistycs, the sex, many times, is much more liberating an influence than it is ever given credit for ... and maybe that is something that our judao-christian media can not accept, understand, and loves to go around convincing people that hell is gonna befall us because we dared dream!

Yeah, man. When I'm strolling down the street with a few of my old ladies in tow I get these looks from the squares in my town. I totally get where you're comin' from.



Let's face it, we all follow our own moral compasses. Only thing that I do believe, Frank was consumed with his work, even when home, he was 'absent'

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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:25 pm 
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tweezers wrote:
...
Let's face it, we all follow our own moral compasses. Only thing that I do believe, Frank was consumed with his work, even when home, he was 'absent'


I think more that in general, we follow the social moral compasses a lot more than we do our own ... because, in the end, if we followed our own, the society would consider it all an anarchy and ... and ... and ... and ... they wouldn't be able to get you to plug up their coffers and make them richer and you even more of a slave and _____________.

Folks like Frank, for me, it was a chance to live and create something new, and sometimes you have to take a complete anti-social stand ... to protect your own inner drive, desire and dream. I sometimes think this is the reason why Gail is so quiet about all that, like sex and sex and sex and a lot more was not a part of a rock musician's life and their touring ... she might feel embarassed about it nowadays with all the political correctedness bullshit running around and the hippocrisy that usually goes around it!


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:31 pm 
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Most rock stars, are usually playing around, while away from home, attracting females, maybe even somewhat lonely. They are living up to a male, macho, image, but we are all fragile and have our Achilles Heel. All I really know is "Judge not, least ye be judged...", but I have tremendous sympathy for the wives. The message they get, is "You are not really that special, and there are lots of others to replace you..." Ouch. If monogamy works for you, that is great, but everyone still needs to learn to care for others in a deep and meaningful way. But why justify it? You could call it infidelity, or being studly. There is something a little poignant about the lives of these stars.


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:59 pm 
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this is why i dont wanna know about the artists i love

i wasnt surprised with miles davis, but i always had this family man picture of him....guess not! i hate hearing about infidelity when people have children, i just cant help but feel terrible for the spouse and kids that are being forgotten. there arent many worse feelings than that.

but theres no doubting that chasing groupies is fun...but he always made fun of that scene...maybe he was making fun of himself

interesting read. written by germaine greer (bottom of page of for highlights)

'Gail Zappa has a hoard of music that could fill a hundred albums – and she hopes to release it, bit by bit, writes Germaine Greer.
I met Frank Zappa in 1973, I think it must have been, over breakfast in Hernando's Hideaway, the coffee shop of the Beverly Wilshire hotel, where he and his wife Gail were staying while their house in Laurel Canyon was redecorated. Their attention was drawn to me because of the staccato rustling of the rice-paper of my airmail copy of the Times, and the deep sighs I kept heaving. They asked me what was on my mind, that I sighed so often and so deeply. "My boyfriend in Detroit has just told me that he's got pubic lice. He thinks I gave them to him. I'm worried that the bastard has given them to me." "Not a problem," said Frank. His black Rolls-Royce with tinted windows was waiting in the hotel driveway; in no time we were at Schwob's drugstore, and Frank was yelling over the heads of the would-be Lana Turners twirling on the stools at the counter: "Blue lotion, please, blue lotion for the crabs." The words rang out like a triumphant fanfare.
Gail and Frank were like the only two sane people in that hideous town, which always seemed to me the antechamber of hell. They didn't do Rodeo Drive or the Polo Lounge. They were happy to hang out with each other and their kids. Their kids actually liked them, which, in that madhouse of chaotic kinship and serial divorce, was special to say the least. Frank spent as much time as possible, which wasn't enough, in his studio under the house, making electronic music. And once or twice he played stuff back for me, stuff that I absolutely did not understand. I said nothing intelligent about it, but nothing stupid either, I hope. Now I'm sorry that I didn't listen harder and ask more questions. Now I've got to play catchup and try to find more of Frank's "serious" music. It's not easy. I just paid a fortune to download the Rykodisc releases from the internet, but my operating system wasn't up to it, and all I got for my money was the titles of the files.
I came to rock'n'roll late, via rhythm and blues. I was never all that convinced by the posturings of the top earners with their lip service to the anti-war movement and the counter culture. I knew the Fugs long before I knew Zappa, and listened to his music in the same spirit, seeing it as an ironic, sometimes savagely satirical version of mass culture. I almost certainly imagined him to be a lot more radical than he was; I never doubted that he took drugs – which he didn't – and I thought he probably helped himself to the heaps of groupies that were lying around – he didn't. He loved his wife and the children he had with her too much for that. Where he was radical, and this I didn't get, was in his music. All the touring and recording was to finance his composing. What seemed to me to be satire was indeed disabused pastiche. He was doing it and doubting it at the same time.
I loved the way Frank looked, with his narrow, long head, his intelligent eyes, and the Dionysiac curve of his grin, emphasised by his jet black moustache and beard, and the surrounding cloud of floating blue-black ringlets. He was proud to look so exotic because it was a visible acknowledgment of his Italian and Sicilian forebears. What was more, it brought out the worst in people.
I had loads of his commercial albums, Weasels Ripped My Flesh, Hot Rats, Burnt Weeny Sandwich, Just Another Band From L.A., Ruben and the Jets, We're Only In It For The Money, Lumpy Gravy. They weren't really all that commercial. Frank was never in the really big money. I fancy all his spare cash went in expensive collaborations with orchestras, and in developing the studio where he laid down track after track, doodling on his Synclavier. I didn't know the half of it. Already in the late 1960s he was working with Jean-Luc Ponty on the King Kong music. I didn't know about his concerts in celebration of the work of Edgard Varèse; nor did I know that he has been a fan of Varése ever since he was a schoolboy. He conducted memorial concerts for Varése in New York and San Francisco; in 1993, four months before his death, Frank conducted the Ensemble Modern in a full programme of Varése. The Ensemble Modern also recorded an album of Zappa's compositions called The Yellow Shark. Four months later Frank was dead.
I've come back to Frank's music through being involved with the small but perfectly formed Britten Sinfonia, who occasionally include Zappa pieces in their repertoire. Modern classical music, which I thought was a dire cacophony 30 years ago, is now becoming legible to me, partly because for the first time I am hearing it properly played, so that the musical structures are at last standing free and clear. I'm at the point where I could really understand the Zappa project, even though music scholars are now using rather chilling rhetoric to describe his big-note theory and his maximal aesthetic. In Frank's world, every sound had a value, and every action was part of the universal diapason, a colossal vibration that made energy rather than reflecting it. I'm grown up enough now to get it, but the bulk of Frank's music is still unheard and likely to remain unhearable.
Gail Zappa is now in control of the treasure house that I glimpsed all those years ago. She is anxious that Frank's legacy not be adulterated or exploited in the wrong way, and so far access to his compositions has been strictly limited. She hopes to bring out as many as a hundred albums on a new record label, Vaulternative Records, produced by Dweezil Zappa. Master tapes finished by Frank already exist for many of them. Meantime we have to make do with small masterpieces that have somehow escaped from the vault, such as G-Spot Tornado, which I want played at my funeral. There are two versions extant, one by the Ensemble Modern at breakneck speed and one by the Britten Sinfonia at half the pace. The Britten Sinfonia performance is sexier and more ironic but Frank probably had more to do with the earlier performance. As things stand at the moment, Gail will probably veto any performance of the work done either way.
The piece reminds me how Frank could inject excitement into the most mundane occasion. Once at the supermarket, Frank was sauntering along behind as we two women pushed our trolleys and minded our own business. He was fetchingly clad in a violent turquoise coloured cat-suit which was unzipped to below the navel, showing a plentiful growth of silky black hair with no sign of underwear. A pair of shoppers became fascinated by this spectacle and began following him about, the woman tittering and making loud comments. Frank stood it as long as he could, and then turned to her and roared: "Eat! My! Shit!" She went white with shock. Her male companion, who weighed four times as much as Frank, threw a punch at him. Frank stepped back out of range, unfazed. He eventually talked his way out of trouble, but it took a while. Eccentricity amid conformity was the name of Frank's game; in Beverly Hills in the 1970s, eccentricity could be downright dangerous.'

http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Fran ... sure_House



' I never doubted that he took drugs – which he didn't – and I thought he probably helped himself to the heaps of groupies that were lying around – he didn't. He loved his wife and the children he had with her too much for that.'

i guess different people view the same exact thing in different ways.

one thing i wanted to point out, kind of off topic. in the SAME ARTICLE, it mentions 1- his rolls royce 2- that he wasn't fond of 'big' money...maybe 'big' money to her is a freakin beoing 747?


ahhhhhhh whatever! back to the music!!! he wasnt trying to be a saint and never said he was, whatever it was he did!


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:20 am 
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Frank always defended groupies. Even celebrated them. GTO's anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:38 am 
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joefc wrote:
one thing i wanted to point out, kind of off topic. in the SAME ARTICLE, it mentions 1- his rolls royce 2- that he wasn't fond of 'big' money...maybe 'big' money to her is a freakin beoing 747?

The Rolls Royce thing surprised me too. He didn't even drive. Guess he just liked riding in style.


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:36 pm 
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You guys never heard or saw Rudy and the Caddy Extravaganza ? ?


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:40 pm 
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KillUgly wrote:
Frank always defended groupies. Even celebrated them. GTO's anyone?



GTOs? the pontiac ones?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:19 pm 
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KillUgly wrote:
Frank always defended groupies. Even celebrated them. GTO's anyone?
joefc wrote:
GTOs? the pontiac ones?

:arrow: .girls together outrageously

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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:50 pm 
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I know cars. Nothing says sucess like a Rolls Royce.


Frank fucked. Back then it was a macho thing. A man knocked off what he could, if he could. The wife? She was for family.

It's the truth. Young people nowdays can't fathom it.

They were raised by television.

Morality is subjective. Hitler painted landscapes.

Art must be judged objectively.


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:59 pm 
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A rope leash wrote:
Art must be judged objectively.

How do you objectify something that is intrinsically subjective?

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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:07 pm 
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It's the art that is judged, not the artist.

Sorry to have roused you.


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:45 am 
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Location: Billy, the mountain...
Frankie was a sex junkie...

In case you care: http://www.zappa.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21512&p=502219#p502219

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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:13 am 
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Like a lot of rock stars, he probably suffered from acquired narcicism. It was way too easy to get laid, and he took advantage.

As would I.


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:40 am 
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I think many who were there and those that were born after forget that a prevalent and well established concept that was very popular was Free Love. This concept introduced the idea that love was not exclusive and that love could be experienced and shared with others outside a committed relationship without a loss to that relationship. I and my wife have been together 33 years and married for 28 years. We were in the free love camp and although one would not rub the others nose in their exploits, we knew of each other’s trysts. It really wasn't until some bad stuff happened later in combination with some drug use that we realized the potential hurt that you could cause someone you loved if you intended too. I am not sure that Frank and Gail’s lifestyle was so unusual or can be seen as morally incorrect with hindsight, things of this nature were seen as, acted on, and dealt with differently in the 60's, 70's, & early 80's.

:smoke:


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:07 am 
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sometimes i think id love to be able to get away with that today

other times i think its completely ridiculous. if you're with someone, you're with them.

but i guess you cant just show up, as a guy, to a 'free love' get together saying 'im here for the gang bang'

in college, i spent half the time with someone, the other half trying to fuck anything that walked. they were both good times, but being young and sometimes using my penis for a brain, the latter was more enjoyable.


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:24 am 
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Where somebody puts their willie-winkie would appear to be an entirely personal judgement and has absolutely no bearing on my opinion of them or their art.

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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:27 am 
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Caputh wrote:
Where somebody puts their willie-winkie would appear to be an entirely personal judgement and has absolutely no bearing on my opinion of them or their art.


good...but what if said person put their willie-winkie in your face?

i guess that experiential art


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:01 am 
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That might influence my judgement, I suppose.

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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:06 pm 
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Plook wrote:
We were in the free love camp...


Is that next to the Freedom Ranch? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:02 pm 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
Plook wrote:
We were in the free love camp...


Is that next to the Freedom Ranch? :wink:



LOL... :lol: ...good one!


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:09 pm 
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joefc wrote:
Caputh wrote:
Where somebody puts their willie-winkie would appear to be an entirely personal judgement and has absolutely no bearing on my opinion of them or their art.


good...but what if said person put their willie-winkie in your face?

i guess that experiential art

I believe Scott Thunes actually did this to one of his bandmates on the '88 tour.


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:14 pm 
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KillUgly wrote:
I was a little taken aback when I first learned of Frank's indiscretions as I read "Rock Wives" way back when. There was a chapter on Gail and I remember her saying something like she "didn't like it when she saw Frank with other women". Following FZ since then it has been obvious, and very much in the open, that even the concept of "cheating" to Frank was a joke. Something squares might be worried about. Was he wrong? Well, that all depends on the people. Frank wasn't hiding anything and Gail tolerated it. You also have to examine the sociology of rock stardom of the day, kind of a perfect storm of hippie philosophy ("Love the One You're With"), groupie worship (Gail was a groupie too, remember) and an era of relatively harmless STD's. Many other music (and entertainment) stars from that era and before engaged in this kind of delicious and decadent behavior. :|

Free love was the hippie philosophy I was talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 6:01 am 
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KillUgly wrote:
KillUgly wrote:
I was a little taken aback when I first learned of Frank's indiscretions as I read "Rock Wives" way back when. There was a chapter on Gail and I remember her saying something like she "didn't like it when she saw Frank with other women". Following FZ since then it has been obvious, and very much in the open, that even the concept of "cheating" to Frank was a joke. Something squares might be worried about. Was he wrong? Well, that all depends on the people. Frank wasn't hiding anything and Gail tolerated it. You also have to examine the sociology of rock stardom of the day, kind of a perfect storm of hippie philosophy ("Love the One You're With"), groupie worship (Gail was a groupie too, remember) and an era of relatively harmless STD's. Many other music (and entertainment) stars from that era and before engaged in this kind of delicious and decadent behavior. :|

Free love was the hippie philosophy I was talking about.



I am not sure every here has this concept correct in their minds, for one there seems to be a lot of belief that this would naturally be orgies and although some would take the concept too that conclusion, it really had more to do with being able or "enlightened" enough to love fully more than one person.

:smoke:


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 Post subject: Re: Frank's infidelity
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 6:36 pm 
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I think it is much easier to fall, than to turn around and change, when talking about sex. I think monogamy is nice to an extent, but many of us have had different experiences with reality, concerning love, purpose, and goal. If I were to say anything to Frank today, it would be " You were a very busy person.." with a smile, and wink. I know a little about what Gail went through, with the "roving eyes". Understanding the lifestyle of a very creative artist, a virtual genius, is to realize that there sexuality was all tied up, into their identity, and image. A lot of the comments echo that. The only thing that is sad about Franks' sexuality, is that it hurt Gail. The rest is a variation on the theme of love. :smoke:


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