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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:52 am 
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By this question i mean: where are WE....Zappa fans............<br>Since his departure 9 years ago, it seems as if the world forgot about Frank and his music.<br>Not that he ever was the popular guy in the music bizz....<br>It also seems as if Zappa's fan base is rapidly decreasing.<br>I mean, the guy has toured the globe on a yearly base from 1966 to 1982.<br>Once more in 1984 and his final tour in 1988.<br>So, at one time he had his fans, he had a couple of gold albums and NOW.....................<br><br>What happened to US (Zappaphiles), are we extinct ????<br><br>Feel free to comment............<br><br>Abnuceal

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:49 pm 
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<br>[quote author=Ronnys_Noomies link=board=legends&num=1035215521&start=0#1 date=10/21/02 at 15:12:43]<br>I wonder if Frank will be anything but a tiny footnote in music history in 10 or 20 years. [/quote]<br><br>Terry Bozzio stated somewhere something like "200 years later only music that's going to be left from the 20th century will be Zappa's music". I agree with both Noomies and Bozzio; probably Zappa will be forgotten in time and later on be discovered, as a result of some social/anthropologic study perhaps. <br>FZ is not introduced to the upcoming generation. Today you can watch Elvis, Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix videos, to name a few, on VH1. Producing a video clip while releasing a new album should not be that hard regarding a vaultful of material. <br>Sebastiaan is lucky to have three people around to talk about Zappa. My pessimism arises from the fact that there is NO ONE around for me. God bless this forum!

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:56 pm 
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"Where did they go, where did they come from, what has become of them now..."<br><br>Abnuceal wrote: "It seems as if the world forgot about Frank and his music". <br><br>Well, the maestro passed away almost ten years ago and without any tours or genuine new albums out there, people just tend to forget. But all his albums are still in print, the ZFT has plans to release new material and the Ensemble Modern, Project/Object and Banned from Utopia are still playing his music for live audiences, so things could also have been a lot worse.<br><br>I wouldn't say that the world forgot about Frank but (and I guess it's the same with a lot of other artists from the past): some older fans just stopped caring for the music and, with over 60 albums out there, it takes new fans quite some time to get to know a substantial part of his catalog. And I hate to admit this, but some of his work sounds a bit dated to younger listeners. I mean: how many young people still know who Owsley is (".. and sleep on Owsley's floor" from WOIIFTM) or even remember the years when Ronald Reagan was president of the USA? <br><br>A lot of the music itself also isn't exactly 'easy listening' (hey, that's why I like it, but a lot of his music probably is kind of inaccessible when you're used to listening to the top 40 or MTV). Zappa's music refuses to be neatly categorized: he made all sorts of music, from rock to modern classical music and critics and journalists would rather ignore all the music they can't fit into one specific genre. <br><br>With all the media coverage for that new Kurt Cobain / Nirvana-song, I do wonder: hey, it's also almost ten years ago that FZ left for his final tour, why don't I hear his music on the radio?<br><br>(pff.. hope this made some sense, I guess I'm just rambling here...)

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:05 pm 
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As long as there are people with such exquisite taste in music,<br>there will always be a place for Frank Zappa. I feel like he is indelibly etched in rock history, and that the true scope of his influence has yet to realized.<br><br>People that important are not forgot..A mind like Zappa is a terrible thing to waste.<br><br>We can help - I passed on my love of Zappa to my kids, and I would hope they will do the same... <br><br>And in some ways, it's more than just music..it's a state of mind. A Zappa doctrine of free thinking and creativity.<br><br>I think the internet helps..as Zappa fans from all over the world can help to keep his music alive...<br><br>Seems to me this site is thriving, as a fourm for an artist that hasn't written any new songs in so so long, and never will again...and was always considered off beat by the general public to begin with.<br><br>(of course i could be totally wrong)<br>

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:56 pm 
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<br>[quote author=sir_galoot link=board=legends&num=1035215521&start=0#6 date=10/21/02 at 19:05:17]<br><br>We can help - I passed on my love of Zappa to my kids, and I would hope they will do the same... <br><br>[/quote]<br><br>I, for one, can guarantee the world at least one new Zappa fan, from the youngest generation possible. <br><br>My 2 year-old daughter, Kenzie, upon seeing FZ's image on the computer screen, invariably smiles, points and says "Uppah?". She loves to just sit on my lap and gaze and point. (I used the desktop wallpaper from fz.com- looks nice)<br>Even better, she absolutely loves "What's New in Baltimore", dancing with hands in the air whenever it is played. <br>Next, I will see how she reacts to "We Are Not Alone" .<br><br>The Black Page #2 will probably wait a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2002 9:55 pm 
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<br>[quote author=josh link=board=legends&num=1035215521&start=0#9 date=10/21/02 at 21:38:39]<br> I always go to CD exchanges in town and they 'Never' have Zappa's records in the store; not because they aren't selling but because every time an FZ album comes in to the store the owner of one of the CD exchanges I frequent always tells me, "When Zappa comes in - it's gone by the end of the day", [/quote]<br> The other part of the equation is that if somebody's buying a Zappa CD, this means that somebody got rid of it before. Something to think !

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 3:04 am 
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I always used to wonder how many of us are out there. Taking all countries together we are separatet miles from each other. But there`s many of us...<br>You can get every known detail about FZ on the internet, in this forum and via fancines. But that´s only the top of the iceberg.<br>I personally never had such a vivid exchange on Zappa since I come here twice weekly 8and I also ahve no one toe communicate about FZ the way I do here). But, I think there are many real fans who love FZ and would never post here or make such giant efforts to get new material, so it`s hard to estimate where we are really. If FZ was still alive, his name would still sell a lot of tickets, even if he wouldn´t play on tours no more, that´s for sure. His afnbase is very quiet somehow. It`s a club without members....<br>I also visit the great record stores around and see the stock of FZ CDs decreasing. They used to carry the whole catalog, but since 1995/6 it vanishes. Since there is nothing nwe coming out - we all know the problem. Some folks still buy it, yes. But for how long? <br>Another thing that pisses me off is: whenever some old tune by Jim Morrison, Hendrix, Lennon or whoever is found or just re-edited, media blows it up like hell and there you go and sell huge units of the stuff. If Rolling Stone made a story on FZ every once in while and a Cd like OZ was to be purchased in usual record stores at erasonable prices it would sell more than 5000 copies! That is MY estimation. Zappa is liked by many many musicians, media people and journalists. But he sort of runs apart from a daily business. There is the current artists from Elvis to Britney, and they deal with it on a regular basis; and then there is Zappa on a totally different level. It´s not just because h is dead and not mainstream. Death sells. <br>So, the only medium we can use to keep up the Zappa legacy is the net. But it`s the most activity-based medium (apart from writing books), you have to DO something to get something. And I wonder if there`s enough knowledge about FZ around that keeps the young folks interested in REAL alternative music. You have to let people know there is something like that. Like I was told and got stuck, like some of my freinds were told and did (or did not). If ther aren`t ads, articles, videos, T-shirts, buttons around, who will know of thepure existence of a great minded artist like Zappa???!!!???  

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 3:26 am 
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<br>[quote author=zliq link=board=legends&num=1035215521&start=0#13 date=10/22/02 at 06:04:14]<br>If Rolling Stone made a story on FZ every once in while and a Cd like OZ was to be purchased in usual record stores at erasonable prices it would sell more than 5000 copies!<br>[/quote]<br><br>I agree, there's gotta be some publicity going on. <br><br>I wasn't around back in those days -and I'm still a long way from the States- but what I gather is that FZ was always overlooked by the press in the past, as he is now. Rolling Stones never had an interview with him (I remember reading that they refused to interview someone calling the magazine a "shit-kind-of publication", though they had an attempt during the last days of FZ which was rejected due to bad health). As far as I can see, more serious rather than popular press got involved with him, so it wouldn't be rational to blame the current press because of their ignorance. <br><br>I wonder if the senior members will agree with this notion. And I wonder if anyone has seen anything in the press about a mail-only release from a musician who passed away 9 years ago :(.

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 5:09 am 
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Obviously Frank and his music should get a lot more publicity from (first of all) music magazines, i think.<br>In all the music magazines i read (MOJO,Q,Classic Rock,OOR,Aloha and sometimes even Rolling Stone...) you hardly ever read anything about the man and his music.<br>Hasn't he been any influence at all ????<br>Or is it indeed true, and is Frank's music to ''much'' for the normal listener to comprehend and in some 150-200 years from now he will be finally seen as a truly unique musician and person....????<br><br>Even here in Holland, wich is supposed to be Zappaminded, you hardly ever hear or read anything about him...<br>On the other hand: when Frank came to Holland during his 1988 tour he performed there twice:both concerts were in the Ahoy, in Rotterdam.<br>I don't know how many people attended these both concerts, but it says something about the man's popularity (at least...back then) i think.<br>But that's 14 years ago, and where are all those people now ???<br>Only 2 years ago the Holland Festival 2000 was mostly about Frank and his music, so there obviously are people out here who like his music, but it seems as if all those people have gone ''underground'' :the internet is the place where most of us meet now.<br>And is it only a coincidence that 4 or 5 of the Top 15 posters are from Holland ????<br>It still seems as if Holland has a fanatic Zappa-fanbase, that's why i think it's so ''weird'' that EVEN in Holland you hardly ever read or hear about him.............

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Frank Zappa: ''Well, there isn't any...''


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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:37 am 
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[quote author=Sebastiaan link=board=legends&num=1035215521&start=15#16 date=10/22/02 at 10:53:20]<br>That's very very true. Let's do something about it. <br>[/quote] <br><br>Let's start a political movement, we'll call it 'Lijst Frank Zappa'. Seems to be a thrilling new trend here in the Lowlands these days (can't say I'm too happy about that, though).<br><br>Anyway, regarding album sales: amazon.com has a ranking system with their bestselling albums, sort of a Top 100. The lower the number, the higher the sales through Amazon.com<br><br>The highest notated Zappa albums are:<br><br>'Apostrophe' - Sales Rank: 4,357 <br>WOIIFTM' -  Sales Rank: 4,700 <br>'Overnite Sensation' - 5,015 <br>'Hot Rats' - Sales Rank: 5,665 <br>'Zappa Picks' - Jon Fishman - Sales Rank: 7,391 (!)<br>'Make a Jazz Noise Here' - Sales Rank: 7,443 <br>'One Size Fits All' - Sales Rank 8,158 <br>'Freak Out' - Sales Rank 9,836 <br>'Joe's Garage' - Sales Rank: 10,108 <br>'SUNPYG' -  Sales Rank: 10,149 <br>'Sheik Yerbouti' - Sales Rank: 10,150 <br>.<br>.<br>'Strictly Commercial' - Sales Rank: 13,178 <br><br>I'm really surprised by the high ranking of that 'Zappa Picks' disc. Must be all American sales, Phish is virtually unknown in Europe. But it looks like Ryko's strategy of promoting Frank to new audiences is paying off, good news. :)<br><br><br><br><br>

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:51 am 
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Thanx to Studebaker for the first data (in the real sense of the word) I've seen in the forum (except for the vaulternative vote poll). <br>Having an established place in the first 5,000 is not bad, ha? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:00 am 
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Not bad at all, I guess. It would be nice to see sales ranks by artist, as FZ has a huge amount of albums out there. Also: the Amazon.com description about sales ranks is a bit vague, I wonder if books and DVDs are included in the same list. If so, in a music-only list the positions would be even higher. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 11:55 am 
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[quote author=Sebastiaan link=board=legends&num=1035215521&start=15#20 date=10/22/02 at 12:06:06]<br><br> ;D five seats should be possible in this Dutch political mess.<br>So, Abnu and Stu prepare yourself for a new life. Lijst Frank Zappa: let's kick some ass.  ;) <br>[/quote]<br><br>I had a Dutch friend running a music shop in Ýstanbul who provided most of my first Zappa CDs before the days of internet (thanx Gerard). <br>He told me about his dad who used to turn the TV off whenever Frank was on because "he couldn't stand the guy sucking the titties of topless women on stage with a vacuum cleaner".<br>Beware of the Dutch conservatives ;D ;D ;D.

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 12:24 pm 
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This was all that my friend had told me, probably because his dad turned the TV off ;D.<br>I didn't know that it was a famous footage. Was it really offensive or it was just that my friend's father was much too sensitive?

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 Post subject: Re: Where are we ???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2002 12:33 pm 
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You know, that's really weird. My father told me that he could remember watching that same VPRO documentary with his parents in the room back in '71, and his dad demanded him to turn off the TV immediately. And I've watched it again with my own dad when it was rebroadcasted in '93 on the day FZ died.

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