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[quote author=Mr. Pompous Nincompoop link=board=legends;num=1040352177;start=45#51 date=08/04/03 at 11:15:46]Hey guys, any of you like Miles Davis? He was a 'heavy' cat wasn't he? One of the most significant musicians of the 20th Century, right? You ever here his rap/hip-hop stuff? Check it out (click link below), download "The Doo Bop Song" & "Mystery"...<br><br>Miles Davis<br><br>After listening ask yourself this, WHY would a mind as musically clever such as Miles-Davis turn to rappers and hip hop grooves? What did he 'hear' in rap and hip hop to construct a whole album of it called Doo-Bop? <br><br>If you hate rap or your mind isn't open then I guess you shouldn't ask yourself these Qs. <br><br>Aside, notice his rendition of Michael Jackson's tune Human Nature, beautiful groove and melody.<br><br>Later.[/quote]<br>so was promiscuous right??  i love miles 80s stuff and i have doo-bop (1991?), but i dont like it.  miles loves the street sound, and that is where the street sound was going when he died.  doo-bop was partially done when miles was alive, he died during its creation, so the dj just took some samples and loops of miles and finished the project.  i just personally dont like music unless it has live musicians playing, sampled beats are cheezy and stiff.  go for the 80's catalog if you like the funk i say: star people, decoy, aura, youre under arrest, man with a horn, amandla, live around the world, tutu, everybody vote for miles (which i don't have yet-double live).  also check out the 2 dvds: live in montreal 1985, and live in paris 1989.  funk overload, if you will.  8)

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[quote author=Mr. Pompous Nincompoop link=board=legends;num=1040352177;start=45#53 date=08/04/03 at 12:05:04]<br><br>It is basically rhythmic based music BUT the use of the turntable is pretty revolutionary in the rhythm department as well. Have you ever went to a turntable battle? I've seen jazz-fusion bands use turntablists (aka DJs) to fill a similar role to that of a percussionist.  I know jazz guitarists that say that a turnable adds a fresh and exciting slant on the rhythmic perspective. They come up with rhythmic ideas in their lines that they wouldn't have been able to think of if they weren't playing with a turntable.<br><br>Freestyling rap has great contributions to the rhythmic areas of music. It has been theorized by some jazz musicians that freestylists are a part of our modern day 'bebop stylists' or 'jazz guys' in terms of taking rhythm, phrasing, and interaction within the musicians to another level. Here is a quote from a jazz musician, <br><br>"Freestylers deal with time, rhythmic tension and resolution, direction in the content, continuity, pitch. Freestylists actually take more pride in being an individual and having their own 'style' more so than 'jazz guys' do. It seems in the rap community (when freestyling. read: improvising) that to use pre-written rhymes or "bite" another's rhymes is the quickest way to get blasted by their peers." <br><br>Something to think about.[/quote]<br>im pickin up what you're throwing down.  i do respect good freestylers, one of my buddies is one of the best freestylers you'll ever hear, i dont think hes ever lost a battle.  if you live in the boston area, ill drop his name, he is possibly the funniest/most creative person ive ever met.

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I'm not a huge hiphop-fan, but I really enjoyed a couple of recent more underground-type hiphop-releases, like stuff by Aesop Rock, King Geedorah, People Under The Stairs, Prefuse 73, Ugly Duckling and RJD2. <br><br>I actually started buying more rap-albums because lately, some of it sounds more creative to me than a lot of hyped-up rock bands ('the saviours of rock and roll') that are mostly adept in rehashing sounds and ideas of thirty years ago.

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I used to dislike rap and hip hop.  I liked some of the samples, but I could never stand the lyrics.  <br><br>Then I heard Canibus' Get Retarded.  Talk about being surprised.  There is some violence, but it is sincere and honest.  I liked it.  That is about it. <br><br>I really think rap is limited and always will be.  many rap artists have not come to grips with reality; they will never get anywhere with their music beyond what has already been established.  It's sorta of like rock.

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[quote author=johnoppel link=board=legends;num=1040352177;start=45#46 date=08/04/03 at 06:03:34]<br>thats my point, why can't they come up with their own shit?  mc hammer made more $ with cant touch this than rick james did with his original superfreak.  thats bs imo.  the list goes on and on.  a cover tune is one thing but this is another.  these guys have no musical talent, some of them have clever word patterns.  with stupid fucking baseball hats all crookit'.... why do all these clowns dress like they're athletes with oversized jerseys?  laughable.[/quote]<br><br><br>i agree, but that's not ALL rap.  what about the Roots?  a real, organic band.  real drums, real bass, real keys.  these guys are TIGHT.  not just on cd, but live as well.  and that's not even mentioning their lyrical abilities.  let's not dismiss a whole genre based on an unfotunate proliferation of rip-off acts.<br><br>p.s. for a sample to be used, the original artist must grant permission, so blame the originators as well as the samplers.  i lost a lot of respect for artists like sting and jimmy page because of the horrid songs that used their music as samples.

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William Shakespeare wrote the first rap lyrics with his<br>"Hey Nonny Nonny"

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well, i adore grandmaster flash and the furious five.<br>stuff like that. and ice ts  before mentioned bodycount project was really cool. theres some more good artists.<br>there was alot pf mixture of rap and rock`n`roll stuff in the beginning of the 90s too. some was fine.<br>but zappa also  did  rhyme or say rap. he did hardly sing i say.<br>to me this is the best you can do it that way.<br>prefer them. always.<br>wowie!

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[quote author=MST3KDude link=board=legends;num=1040352177;start=45#54 date=08/20/03 at 12:12:40]<br><br><br>i agree, but that's not ALL rap.  what about the Roots?  a real, organic band.  real drums, real bass, real keys.  these guys are TIGHT.  not just on cd, but live as well.  and that's not even mentioning their lyrical abilities.  let's not dismiss a whole genre based on an unfotunate proliferation of rip-off acts.<br><br>p.s. for a sample to be used, the original artist must grant permission, so blame the originators as well as the samplers.  i lost a lot of respect for artists like sting and jimmy page because of the horrid songs that used their music as samples.[/quote]<br>i dig the roots, i saw them in my college theater a couple of years ago.  one of the loudest shows ive ever been to.  one album i like is jay-z mtv unplugged with the roots band, thats some funky shit.  i like the roots for the sole reason that they play instruments and dont rely on machines to play the "music" for them.

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Rap yeh i have some ICE-T,HOUSE OF PAIN,CYPRESS HILL,BODY COUNT and then the heavy metal rap of RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE,311 and a few others that i can only stand for a few until i go back to ZAPPA.

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I like this analogy.....<br> RAP= retards attempting poetry

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"The largest land mammal is the absent mind" (Don Van Vliet - 1971)

Most likely most of rap=crap,or a lot of it-but most of anything on the 'market' is crap,anyway.But I sense that Run D.M.C. & Public Enemy are the geniuses in that field.I don't know about the others-with all that 'yo' & 'bitch' inclusions...& not a modicum of music-knowlege.Maybe it is peer pressure more than music as motivation for bad poetry taken seriously.

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[quote author=aquabot link=board=legends;num=1040352177;start=60#61 date=11/25/05 at 12:25:16]I like rap, mainly PE ofcourse but also, DMX, Mystikal, Busta rhymes (I like his fast flow), Snoop dogg(I like his shuffling flow),Tricky (his early work), Massive attack, Common and others.<br><br>I don't mind that much about the so-called violent lyrics since also listening to death metal I'm rather used to violent lyrics. I see that as horror or police movies.<br>Yet I don't like their perception of women, but think about it, most rock bands have the same view( ex:Motley crue'sgirls girls girls).<br><br>Musically, it's true it hasn't evolved much recently, but rock'n'roll hasn't done so either.<br><br>Right now, I'm more interested in raggamuffin artists such as: Elephant man, Bounty killer Vybz kartel or Ward 21.[/quote]<br><br>massive attack are trip hop, not rap

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[quote author=aquabot link=board=legends;num=1040352177;start=60#63 date=11/25/05 at 12:58:13]<br><br>Isn't trip hop a result of a modification of hip hop, doesn't 3D rap?[/quote]<br>No, I'd say trip hop evolved from techno, which evolved from disco. Trip hop might have some influence from guys like Brian Eno, Michael Oldfield and other electronic artists of the 70s. Rap may have evolved from disco too, but I wouldn't lump rap/hip hop in with techno or electronica. That MA have some raps in a couple songs does not really make them a hip hop act. At least that's how I see it.

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[quote author=dkaplowitz link=board=legends;num=1040352177;start=60#64 date=11/25/05 at 13:08:16]<br>No, I'd say trip hop evolved from techno, which evolved from disco. Trip hop might have some influence from guys like Brian Eno, Michael Oldfield and other electronic artists of the 70s. Rap may have evolved from disco too, but I wouldn't lump rap/hip hop in with techno or electronica. That MA have some raps in a couple songs does not really make them a hip hop act. At least that's how I see it.[/quote]<br><br>trip hop did evolve from techno, but techno didn't evolve from disco....techno was a sort of hybrid of 1970s german electro and funk. House music evolved from disco and techno though heh.

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I think triphop sounds more like it's influenced by hiphop and dub reggae (King Tubby, Scientist, Adrian Sherwood On-U-sound stuff, Bill Laswell etc.), I personally don't really hear a lot of techno influences in stuff like Massive Attack or Portishead.

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[quote author=Studebaker link=board=legends;num=1040352177;start=60#67 date=11/25/05 at 14:00:08]I think triphop sounds more like it's influenced by hiphop and dub reggae (King Tubby, Scientist, Adrian Sherwood On-U-sound stuff, Bill Laswell etc.), I personally don't really hear a lot of techno influences in stuff like Massive Attack or Portishead.[/quote]<br><br>it depends what era of techno you're speaking about tho...there's no real link with the early techno from detroit, but there is with the ambient techno that first came about in the early 90s through the likes of Warp Records. It was obviously influenced by other styles also but for the pruposes of the point the previous poster had made about it being rap then i feel there is more of a techno influence than a rap one. I think in trip hop the vocals are secondary to the music while with rap or hip hop the opposite is true and the lyrical content is also light years apart.

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[quote author=homewrecker link=board=legends;num=1040352177;start=0#0 date=12/19/02 at 18:42:57]What do people here think of rap. Be warned, one band I won't hear a word against is public enemy ( NANANAICANTHEARYOU!) I understand Frank wasn't to keen. Though that may be hearsay.[/quote]<br><br>I´m not a big rap connoisseur but I dig old school rap, like Grandmaster Flash. "White Lines", "The Message", etc. <br><br>I prefer when the rapping vocalizations actually constitue a melodic part of the song (a recent example is "Gangsta´s Paradise"); today, it´s like the music is just a backdrop for the singer´s rants.  <br><br>Even Eminem has some inspired moments, like the emotional crescendo from that song that won an Oscar ("Lose Yourself", I think).<br><br>I don´t know Public Enemy´s work well, but the three or four songs I´ve listened to sounded good to my ears.<br>

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I like hiphop quite a bit, but none of that shit you hear on the radio or see on MTV. Older stuff like Public Enemy, Beastie Boys, KRS-One, Kool Keith are all great, but there are several artists today who are incredibly innovative. People like Madlib (who is responsible for Quasimoto, which I made a thread about once, because of his Zappa connection), MF Doom, Del the Funky Homosapien, Saul Williams, Talib Kweli, and more. They're doing something completely different with the genre and are worth checking out.

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