Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:05 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:26 pm
Posts: 31
In 1971 Frank Zappa was pulled off a stage by a jealous fan, after his girlfriend admitted to be in love with zappa.
While in recovery he released another band from l.a. What if Zappa had died that day in December 1971? Would people still listen to him with only the amount of output of records back then,.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:18 pm
Posts: 545
Location: Over there! (last)
The "Butterfly Effect" would have caused a nuclear holocaust resulting in complete or nearly complete annihilation of human civilization.

So no.

_________________
Image Nothing is permanent but change.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:28 pm
Posts: 2550
Location: in the tiny dirt somewhere
If FZ had died that night, people wouldn't remember John Lennon as the first rock and roll assassination...

_________________
_________________Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:53 pm
Posts: 624
Location: ger-money
I always ask myself the question vice versa: which way would Jimi have taken if he hadn't died in 1970?

_________________
god, what a cheap bubble machine!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 12:41 pm
Posts: 13702
Location: Billy, the mountain...
Ike Willis would be a lawyer...

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:20 am
Posts: 564
Location: Laurel Canyon
Steve Vai would probably be not famous.

_________________
Jellyfish!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 5353
Location: Birthplace of Grand Funk Railroad & Mr Don Preston
Image

_________________
*********************************************************************

Wow there's hardly anything fun to do since they made music illegal

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:41 pm
Posts: 14948
MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
If FZ had died that night, people wouldn't remember John Lennon as the first rock and roll assassination...


I thought for sure you were going to tell the decomposing joke again.

_________________
One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 2176
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Ike Willis would be a lawyer...

And probably healthier and happier.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 2176
wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
Steve Vai would probably be not famous.

I'll disagree on this one. Steve wasn't famous until he left FZ (and Alcatrazz for that matter). Vai's talent was cream destined go rise to the top IMO.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:20 am
Posts: 564
Location: Laurel Canyon
What would had happened if he wasn't pushed off-stage in 1971? Would he keep the Flo And Eddie band? Would Waka and Wazoo be released anyway?

_________________
Jellyfish!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 1573
wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
What would had happened if he wasn't pushed off-stage in 1971? Would he keep the Flo And Eddie band? Would Waka and Wazoo be released anyway?


Frank wanted to a) put the horns back in his band and b) release a sequel to Hot Rats. Early ideas for "Big Swifty" and the "Grand Wazoo" were already quoted in Zappa's guitar solos during the late stage of the '71 Euro tour.

However, FZ' post-71 albums could've certainly turned out different for the lack of a) lower voice and b) the embitterment of his attitude as a result of the Rainbow trauma. I do maintain FZ came out of the Rainbow accident angrier and more disillusioned than ever before.

Had he died then maybe Zappa's reputation today amongst the rock press would be different. There would lot less dismissals of Zappa as a writer of stupid sexist lyrics and a performer of over-indulgent noodly solos. The Mothers of Invention would be just as mythologised and influential to indie rock bands as the likes of Velvet Underground. Hot Rats would still retain the same "milestone of jazz-rock" reputation that has also been bestowed upon the likes of Bitches Brew, or in England, Third by The Soft Machine. Maybe the soundtrack to "200 Motels" would have a different status today (read: it would be in print and it would not have such horrible sound quality issues) had that been the last released FZ album in his lifetime. Your guess is as good as any!

EDIT: Forgot one thing, perhaps FZ would not have as much of a reputation in the classical world than he actually managed to build up during the remaining two decades of his life.

_________________
Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:22 pm
Posts: 1514
Location: Huntingdon, TN
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Ike Willis would be a lawyer...


Provided that he made it through law school, and passed the bar. :wink:


KUIII wrote:
wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
Steve Vai would probably be not famous.

I'll disagree on this one. Steve wasn't famous until he left FZ (and Alcatrazz for that matter). Vai's talent was cream destined go rise to the top IMO.



I'll agree. And opinions seem to be divided on Vai's talent, and whether he sold himself out with the DLR and Whitesnake projects. I will say this about Vai. He took that money he made, created a record label which he knew would make no money, and allowed guitarists like Neal Schon to record albums outside their normal realm. Some of those albums are quite good, so I applaud him for that.


Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
Maybe the soundtrack to "200 Motels" would have a different status today (read: it would be in print and it would not have such horrible sound quality issues) had that been the last released FZ album in his lifetime.


That definitely would have happened, and it's a tragedy that it hasn't happened anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9482
Location: EINDHOVEN
In The Netherlands his classical career was pretty much off the ground before the pitfall. 200 Motels was scheduled to be played at Holland Festival in 1970; not a small feat for someone who was in business for less than five years. Plus in 1969 he was influential enough to partly inspire the massive Dutch opera Reconstructie (by compositorial greats Louis Andriessen, Reinbert de Leeuw, Misha Mengelberg, Peter Schat and Jan van Vlijmen). It was only performed 5 times but it still counts as a major event within Dutch 20th century art music.

Zappa did not really start singing until after his crash. He has such a unique humour about his voice that gets me every time (this is the central scwootinaisah!) and without that, Greggery Peccary wouldn't be nearly as colourful. Heard three different versions of the piece but FZ's is the only one that has the vocals juuuust right.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:20 am
Posts: 564
Location: Laurel Canyon
BBP wrote:
In The Netherlands his classical career was pretty much off the ground before the pitfall. 200 Motels was scheduled to be played at Holland Festival in 1970; not a small feat for someone who was in business for less than five years. Plus in 1969 he was influential enough to partly inspire the massive Dutch opera Reconstructie (by compositorial greats Louis Andriessen, Reinbert de Leeuw, Misha Mengelberg, Peter Schat and Jan van Vlijmen). It was only performed 5 times but it still counts as a major event within Dutch 20th century art music.

Zappa did not really start singing until after his crash. He has such a unique humour about his voice that gets me every time (this is the central scwootinaisah!) and without that, Greggery Peccary wouldn't be nearly as colourful. Heard three different versions of the piece but FZ's is the only one that has the vocals juuuust right.

I think Frank's humour was never the same after the stagefall. Although it kept a bit of humour, his music became more serious. That's only my opinion, of course a lot of people here won't agree.

_________________
Jellyfish!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:41 am
Posts: 432
Location: Centerville, Norway
- the groundbreaking early albums would have ensured him massive mythological status and he would have been a rock legend.

- his lifetime output would never have been out of print after he died, and there would have been a number of "definitive" boxes with all the albums from Freak Out! to Fillmore East, June 1971.

- the latter album would have had a special status as his last official release, much like Hendrix' Band of Gypsies LP.

- 200 Motels would have been more revered than it is today, and some people might even have found the beginnings of a great contemporary composer in that work.

- "imagine what Zappa could have achieved if he'd lived longer" would have been an oft-heard phrase many years after his passing.

- a lot of archive material from the early years would have been released haphazardly during the Seventies and Eighties, before the trustees decided to get a grip on the situation with a series of more focussed and interesting quality releases from the mid-90's and onwards.

- les citoyens de Puisard Radioactif, un petit village québécois, auraient etabli "la première église de Zappologie" quelques ans après sa mort.

_________________
If I'm not alone... How long have I been asleep?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 6:16 am
Posts: 717
Location: Royal Wootton Bassett
Pretty much agree with everything here.
He would be revered as one of the rock n' roll greats. Up there with Jimi.
Lets be thankful he never died then and just wish he didn't die as early as '93.

_________________
Image

Trendmonger wrote:
...and but also


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:43 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
Posts: 1582
Location: south midlands, UK
There would have been lots of dumb quotes circulating like:
reporter to hendrix "whats it like being the best guitarist in the world?"
hendrix: "I dunno, ask frank zappa".
TT

_________________
and I know, I think
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:20 am
Posts: 564
Location: Laurel Canyon
deuce wrote:
There would have been lots of dumb quotes circulating like:
reporter to hendrix "whats it like being the best guitarist in the world?"
hendrix: "I dunno, ask frank zappa".
TT

You mean jellyfish?

_________________
Jellyfish!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:41 pm
Posts: 14948
deuce wrote:
There would have been lots of dumb quotes circulating like:
reporter to hendrix "whats it like being the best guitarist in the world?"
hendrix: "I dunno, ask frank zappa".
TT


I disagree. Jimi didn't say much in 71.

And I don't think you can make as case of greatest guitarist through 200 Motels.

_________________
One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 5353
Location: Birthplace of Grand Funk Railroad & Mr Don Preston
1.Ahmet and Diva would have vanished like in that photo from Back to the Fuchum.

2. Roy Estrada: Imprisoned for life earlier because of too much free time to get into trouble.

3. Napoleon Murphy Brock: Lounge Lizard who never made it to shore. Died in 1982

_________________
*********************************************************************

Wow there's hardly anything fun to do since they made music illegal

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:28 pm
Posts: 2550
Location: in the tiny dirt somewhere
Milton Bradley wrote:
1.Ahmet and Diva would have vanished like in that photo from Back to the Fuchum.

2. Roy Estrada: Imprisoned for life earlier because of too much free time to get into trouble.

3. Napoleon Murphy Brock: Lounge Lizard who never made it to shore. Died in 1982

And what of Dweezil, oh Great One?

_________________
_________________Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:43 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
Posts: 1582
Location: south midlands, UK
calvin2hikers wrote:
deuce wrote:
There would have been lots of dumb quotes circulating like:
reporter to hendrix "whats it like being the best guitarist in the world?"
hendrix: "I dunno, ask frank zappa".
TT

I disagree. Jimi didn't say much in 71.
And I don't think you can make as case of greatest guitarist through 200 Motels.

Ah - a misunderstanding...
I'm referring to the mythological quote made by hendrix (circa woodstock / Isle of wight) when asked "whats it like being the greatest guitarist in the world", and saying "I dunno, ask Rory Gallagher".
It never happened of course, but reportedely happened when they were both still alive.
But since their deaths, people just make shit like this up and it becomes 'the truth'...
TT

_________________
and I know, I think
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:02 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
Posts: 1582
Location: south midlands, UK
Actually - what I should have said to make it consistent would have been

There would have been lots of dumb quotes circulating like:
reporter to zappa "whats it like being the best guitarist in the world?"
hendrix: "I dunno, ask rory gallagher".
TT

_________________
and I know, I think
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If F.Z. died in 71?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 5353
Location: Birthplace of Grand Funk Railroad & Mr Don Preston
MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
Milton Bradley wrote:
1.Ahmet and Diva would have vanished like in that photo from Back to the Fuchum.

2. Roy Estrada: Imprisoned for life earlier because of too much free time to get into trouble.

3. Napoleon Murphy Brock: Lounge Lizard who never made it to shore. Died in 1982

And what of Dweezil, oh Great One?


You may call me Karnac:

I understand he was born before 1971. FZ's death woudn't have prevented him from being born, so that point has been mootified. Furthermore I'd say that without a guiding hand of his old man,some other father figure would step in to help him along. His love of baseball would get him through high school maybe forcing musical interests to play second fiddle. He'd possibly change his name to Chad or Jeremy because teenagers are fickle and often suffer teasing.

How much influence does a parent who dies when a child is two have on that same person as an adult? Who can say? I'd like to see an independent study.He most likely woudn't have too many strong memories of his father and they'd just be from a two year old's point of view. Some footage and 14 albums to experience can't replace memories.

Because the Hendrix Miami strat would not be unearthed by Dweezil from underneath the steps it would continue to be hidden and gathering dust until 1989 when the new homeowners discovered it. Not knowing its value it ended up in a landfill. *roll credits

_________________
*********************************************************************

Wow there's hardly anything fun to do since they made music illegal

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group