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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:31 am 
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yo. Im Writing a paper about jazz, & I need to know who invented Jazz/Rock Fusion?? Was it FZ or M. Davis or..............?? Please give me an answer if you know. Then i dont need to read so much! :)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:59 am 
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I think the "Bitches Brew" album from Miles Davis has a lot to do with it, as does Hot Rats(?). Other than that, don't know shit :lol:


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 Post subject: who invented jazz rock
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:00 am 
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Wel.... great ? John Mayhal,Jazz blues Fusion, maybe early Grame Bond Barry Miles, Fusion Is, Ian Anderson, serenade for a cookoo,thats a roland Kirk tune, Keef Hartley, C Santana, how about Gabor Zabo?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:45 am 
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Miles Davis is given credit for Fusion with Bitches Brew. (adding Funk to the Jazz+Rock equation)

Now, Jazz-Rock is a different story. A number of people (including FZ) were searching for Fusion in the late sixties, pretty much simultaneously, but didn't come up with Miles' equation. (they were exploring Jazz+Rock, without the Funk element)

Now you can go do even more reading on how this came to be. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:40 pm 
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Right before Bitches Brew, Tonny Williams left the Miles Davis Group to found Tony Williams Lifetime with John McLaughlin... That is a straight jazz-rock fusion approach.

The Quarteto Novo album featuring Airto and Hermeto dates back from 1967 and is a genuine Jazz-brazilian music fusion as well...

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:49 pm 
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I'd say that Zappa was 'fusing' the genres as early as 'Absolutley Free', but as for who spawned it, inspired people to continue it, was Bitches Brew.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:09 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wyx5BtnPEg

This discussion is over.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:32 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:


WOW!!! That's a young Joe Zawinul on keys, isn't it? I KNEW he was ahead of Miles! Thanks, Cal!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:33 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:


If :o I could :) stop laughing :D :lol: , I could :lol: :lol: type something

That was classic Cal 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:53 pm 
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John McLaughlin's Inner Mounting Flame came out in 1971, and usually is credited as the first fusion album. Extrapolation, released in 1969 had some rock leanings too.

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Also, Chick Corea. Give a listen to Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy, which came out in 1973. Light As a Feather, the album just before it which came out in 1972, also had mild fusion leanings on some of the songs. The former features Bill Connors on guitar, who makes Al Dimeola look sappy (despite how good Al was at the time).

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These two guys added the ROCK to jazz/rock. I don't think Miles ever really added rock to the mix, or at least not in the balls-out way Corea and McLaughlin did.

Frank was in a whole separate category of his own. I never thought of him as fusion, or part of any other category except rock at several points in his career.

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 Post subject: who invented jazz rock
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:55 pm 
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OK if you are talking fusion then Barry Miles, Fusion Is would be The LP to look for, his brother Terry Silverlight played drums and was 15, also Les Mccann Invitation to openness is the lp to research and yes Airto, and Hermeto were doing a long time ago.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:03 pm 
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Are we talking Jazz musicians that went rock or Rock musicians that went jazz? For the former, I'd say Miles, for the latter, I'd say Soft Machine.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:11 pm 
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I don't think any style can be attributed to just one person.

There's always inputs from various sources when a new style emerges, and then some has more impact than others.

I would say that there's rock influence in the hardbop of the middle sixties, like Cannonball Adderley (with Joe Zawinul), but you could argue that it's more like gospel than rock. But then gospel is a main influence in rock.

Ronny's Noomies seems to think that the music has to be very electrified and heavy sounding to qualify to the term of jazz-rock. I think it only peaked like that - and that Mahavishnu Orchestra is a special case with a style of their own that had a tremendous influence for a few years.

Jazz-rock died from artistry.

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 Post subject: who invented jazz rock
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:55 pm 
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Jazz Rock is NOT dead I just listened to DREAMS, Imagine My Surprise, Greay CD Cobham shines on MedicatedGoo !!!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:33 pm 
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1967: When I'm Sixty Four by the Beatles

there you go, a rock band playing dixieland jazz.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:38 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:


i would have loved being their dentist.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:32 pm 
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feetlightup wrote:
1967: When I'm Sixty Four by the Beatles

there you go, a rock band playing dixieland jazz.


What about the corny cocktail jazz of 'America Goes Home', if you wanna get technical?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:54 pm 
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Kayak wrote:
Now, Jazz-Rock is a different story. A number of people (including FZ) were searching for Fusion in the late sixties, pretty much simultaneously, but didn't come up with Miles' equation. (they were exploring Jazz+Rock, without the Funk element)


I didn't realise fusion had to have a funk element to be called fusion. Wasn't it just the fusion of jazz and rock?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:52 pm 
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The way I see it is that it all started with the mounting invention of electronic equipment and the advent of the PA system. The album that started the germ was ESP by MD then In a Silent Way then by Bitches Brew the muso's were so inspiered their was this explosion at the same time with their indervidual bands. John Mclachlan, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea and of course Joe Zarwinal. I could be wrong though.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:54 pm 
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Of course the music comes first then all the shy folk give it labels :)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:20 am 
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feetlightup wrote:
1967: When I'm Sixty Four by the Beatles

there you go, a rock band playing dixieland jazz.


That's not dixieland jazz! It's the music hall tradition that so many British pop groups have touched at.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:31 am 
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FeralCats wrote:
feetlightup wrote:
1967: When I'm Sixty Four by the Beatles

there you go, a rock band playing dixieland jazz.


What about the corny cocktail jazz of 'America Goes Home', if you wanna get technical?


Ah yes, FZ' made a brilliant parody of the moronic II-V-I syndrome so exploited by jazz purists. Of course, there's one thing on AF album that definitely qualifies as Fusion or Jazz-Rock: "Invocation & Ritual Dance of the Young Pumpkin". One reviewer at Progreviews.com described that instrumental guitar and soprano sax showcase as Ventures meets John Coltrane. Quite apt. And that's recorded in november, 1966! A few years before Soft Machine actually started playing authentic jazz-fusion, as they were nothing but a pop band back then with their songs like "Love Makes Sweet Music".


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:42 am 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
FeralCats wrote:
feetlightup wrote:
1967: When I'm Sixty Four by the Beatles

there you go, a rock band playing dixieland jazz.


What about the corny cocktail jazz of 'America Goes Home', if you wanna get technical?


Ah yes, FZ' made a brilliant parody of the moronic II-V-I syndrome so exploited by jazz purists. Of course, there's one thing on AF album that definitely qualifies as Fusion or Jazz-Rock: "Invocation & Ritual Dance of the Young Pumpkin". One reviewer at Progreviews.com described that instrumental guitar and soprano sax showcase as Ventures meets John Coltrane. Quite apt. And that's recorded in november, 1966! A few years before Soft Machine actually started playing authentic jazz-fusion, as they were nothing but a pop band back then with their songs like "Love Makes Sweet Music".


And let's not forget, it's fusing one more thing into the mix-- classical music, in the form of the Holst Quote. Stuff like that seems to presage Mahavishnu more than Bitches Brew does (not that I don't love the Brew, but it's like TMR-- no one has ever made music like it, but stuff is influenced by it)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:18 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:


That actually kicks a lot of ass.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:20 am 
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Vietato l'Ingresso wrote:
feetlightup wrote:
1967: When I'm Sixty Four by the Beatles

there you go, a rock band playing dixieland jazz.


That's not dixieland jazz! It's the music hall tradition that so many British pop groups have touched at.


I was partially kidding, I know it was supposed to be a music hall type of number... but the clarinets certainly invite comparison to dixieland jazz. :wink:

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