Zappa.com

I agree it's about as controversial as you can get. It does at least say that it's about zionism not about semitism. I think it is undeniably worth a read. There are way too many facts brought up about 9-11. As controversial as it is, and as much as it makes brain hurt, it is worth a read.

Not saying it's all true, but certainly there are a lot of facts in there that are fairly verfiable from research I did yesterday about 9-11. I'll admit, the evolution thing is the biggest red flag for me too, haven't read that yet. The free mason and illuminati thing is actually very freaky. Ever wonder why that pyramid with the freaky eye is on the dollar bill???

Regardless, one conspiracy at a time, the 9-11 document is worth reading and researching.

you forgot to put in a link to the Protocol of the Elders of Zion. (uber sarcasm) i would have to wonder about someone who could have their entire view shifted in one day as the result of watching a few hours of film. your choice of user name would indicate a certain predisposition to believe in these things.

i work with a group of guys who believe in the Illuminati. before i knew what it was they were into, the ring leader and i talked politics and the state of the world a few times and we shared many similar interpretations of things. then came the day he brought me in pamphlets to read and i never took a single word seriously again that he ever spoke to me. i did explore the whole Illuminati thing because it was so outlandish (to me). talk about all inclusive - the Templar Knights, The Masons, satan, the UN- everybody is involved! anyway, i have watched him and his group of sycophants for the past 10 years as one theory led to another in their heads, and one new speaker of the TRUTH after another reshapes their worldview and lightens their wallets. (i believe i mentioned some of their more recent activities in an earlier post.) they live in a world where they suspect everything and everyone. they fear the UN while knowing not a whit about it. nevermind that anything the UN does more resembles the actions of the Keystone Cops than an elite military unit. they live in a world where Satan sits as CEO of a secret organization of the ultra wealthy (who are also Free Masons, having used that oranizations power and influence to achieve their positions) with the ultimate goal of world domination. add little decorative enhancements like Mongolian horsemen along the Mexican/US border and VC along the Canadian border waiting to cross over and overthrow the US (the tactical planner of this distribution of forces would be a fool); little bar-coded stickers on the back of road signs so the UN troops can find their way around (apparently road maps are unheard of), and all the rest of it. The most powerful military in the world can't secure a country the size of California and a group like the UN is going to seize the whole planet?

The world is going through some shit these days, for sure. Maybe all these conspiricy things are created by the same things in man's psyche that caused early man to invent the gods and monsters and creation stories to make sense of the things they didn't understand in the world they lived in. the ones with the best explanations become preists, shamans, seers, what have you. some manage to acquire power and enough of a following where they can hold sway and wreak havoc for some time. but, they ALWAYS fail in the end. that's the one thing i do believe in.

.

_________________
My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

Yes, the illuminati thing I chose as a name more as a joke. I really haven't read much about them, I don't know much about them. I'm going to investigate more though. I was searching the net for 9/11 wingidings I think because I was curious about that when this site popped up, I saw teh thread is fresh, so I just posted what's on my mind.

But the 9/11 thing is what I'm talking about here. After reading that, and yes, it just happened yesterday, I definitely do wonder if Mossad was involved. The case is strong. Whether or not Mossad was involved, there is a vast amount of evidence that Osama Bin Bad Guy was not behind the attacks and the whole event has been used as an excuse to make some wholesale changes in the states that don't benefit americans. So what's up with that? Anyway, the evidence I am talking about is in that document. It's worth a read.

cool on the name thing. the user name and the two links, the titles of which would lead one to believe the subject was Jewish involvement in the topics of the video and document, combined with what i know of the Illuminati thing made me wonder if you were looking for converts or sumpthin'. i've seen recruiting ploys that start "hi. i'm new here. watch this" or "read this, and tell me what you think."

welcome to the site. it's a pretty good time!

_________________
My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

Hi,

Yes, it is about Mossad involvement in 9/11 and is basically the world's biggest conspiracy theory. It complete messed me up to read it, but frankly, it makes more sense than the war in Iraq does or 9/11 done by rookie pilots and the U.S. just ignoring them as they crash into stuff. That is far more unbelievable than that document quite unfortunately.

Turns out star wars wasn't just a movie...

the thing i've always believed about the planes not being shot down was that nobody wanted to give the "KILL" order because the consequences of a mistake would have been the end of life as he/she and family knew it. the media is ruthless and non stop at demonizing people and truth seldom matters if there's a better story without it. and the government doesn't mind offering up the sacrificial lamb. these are facts everybody who works with or for the government knows well. i believe the planes not being dealt with was a most elementary case of "i'm not taking responsibility if it's wrong." combine that instinct for self preservation along with a willing suspension of belief because the unthinkable was happening and there's a recipe for what happened. IMHO, that is. not as spectacular as some of the theories, but whatever goals were to be accomplished by the planes as missiles could have been done by simpler means. too many theories seem to start at the planes hitting stuff and work backwards from there toward whatever beginning the theory's proponent wants. like the Towers being blown up by demolition - how was the preparation carried out? it would had to have been done in front of everybody who visited and worked there. and how was this all kept totally secret before, during, and after? with the Pentagon - why are only a few saying there was no plane? why aren't there more people saying that there was no jet, too when thousands obviously saw the area immediately afterward? details, details.....

_________________
My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

jimmyzen, military people at high ranks tend to be cold as steel over those kind of subject... When to ponder over cost/benefits of shooting down a plane full of people, or letting it crash in a public landmark killing even more people, I have little doubt that they choose the former.

BTW, that is my opinion of what happened with the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania: some high milirtary ranking officer "outside the plot" just saw that happening (the other crashes) and gave the order (not easily gaven) of shooting it down...

Or does somebody outhere belive the LET'S ROLL story better?

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

All of those questions (how did someone set up the demolition etc.) are answered in this paper:

http://theunjustmedia.com/Jewish%20Zion ... tement.htm

Again, somebody read it the whole way through then comment.

As for the quality of the Website. The author of the paper is not the author of the Website from what I can tell, the website is hosting the paper. I am not 100% sure of this. Again though, before getting scared away by certain sentences or words, just read it. This theory literally explains everything and it does so in a very believable way.

any article that opens with a full page that states, in effect, believe this and be a highly intelligent Socratic thinker or be a mindless, conditioned Lemming if you doubt the contents would seem dubious. i will read it through, but it has already lost credibility since anything that could stand on its own factually wouldn't need the same emotional marketing ploy it faults others for falling for to condition the reader prior to examining it.


another thing i found interesting was that the article claims it uses the very same mainstream media sources to support its conclusion that are so notoriously unreliable. interesting.

and GG - i am a veteran of the First Infantry Division and had a pretty successful military tour of duty. I know very well the types of people that exist there.

i'll say no more until i read it.

_________________
My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

So, what do you say? What do you think, is it credible? Because, under the circumstances, it would be more disastrous to let one more plane to hit a target. The people in it would very probably all die anyway, then it is a more parcimonious choice to shoot it down, even if it would make a huge noise and protests from the media. But then, there is always the "let's roll" cover up

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

why couldn't it be possible that the passengers attacked the hi-jackers? leave out all the Hollywood crap and for God and Country shit and tell me why it would be 100% certain that the passengers would just sit still cowering and take whatever was in store for them? if there was a shoot down and the circumstances of what was going on in the plane are known, why would a 25% successful response be something to hide? why wouldn't publically acknowledging that hi jacked planes would be shot down be a good thing? beside the fact that a shoot-down and cover up is a better story, how can you or anybody discount that the passengers reacted? it is well within the realm of reason and isn't as much of a stretch as the other possibility.

_________________
My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

it's parsimonious

_________________
My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

thanks, I guess that sums it up...

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

GG- i lived a good portion of my life with the "wrong" crowd. i traveled in some pretty un-ordinary circles populated by a "criminal element". i learned a great deal about people during that time. i saw things happen and knew of things that happened that were often difficult to believe. people you'd never suspect of even remotely having the stuff in them to do some of the things they did were not rare. i spent a few years on the hot seat as a prime suspect in a murder case. i had everything done to me you could imagine to get me to talk. except beatings. i'll give them that. (i had received my initiation to police violence a decade earlier.) i heard hours of tape recorded interviews about me by people i knew and some i'd never heard of. the fewer of their questions i could answer the more they were convinced i was just a tough nut to crack and kept turning the heat up on me. finally, through a fluke- an overheard conversation in a bar the shooters are caught and i am exhonorated. in the "straight" world i always kept one foot in- had to make an honest living-, things were no different in and of themselves; the only difference was the degree of the stimulus and the severity of the response. one side, a guy goes in over his head on his car, the bank repos it. the otherside, the loss is the use of a limb for awhile or something. all the stress, shame, embarassment, playing the "what if" game is all the same. just different degrees.

people watching has always been a fascination with me. my point is i feel i am pretty well qualified in knowing how people will act in given situations. i know for fact, IMHO, that 99% of the time an individual will act in his/her own self interest, especially if there is a percieved threat to not do so.

i have also seen first hand the willing suspension of belief. i knew guys who made deals with known police informants and were surprised to find themselves in handcuffs. everytime i get so involved in a video game that the world around me disappears around me an i am in the game, that is a willing suspension of disbelief.

so yeah, i fully can accept that the passengers did cross a threshold and attacked the hi jackers. i'm sure somewhere there is a report that confirmed missile damage was found on the fuselage.

i didn't see Let's Roll. i won't because it's just another patriotic cupcake Hollywood offering. it's like the way the tried to change the story of pat Tillmans death to a heroic escapade rather than the tragic fuck-up it was. and what was the girl's name who was rescued from the hospital? they tried to make her into something she wasn't. i was so proud she had the integrity to not let herself be made into a propaganda tool.

_________________
My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

Wow, interesting story, thanks.

About that flight I think the most out-of-place detail is that the debris from the plane were scattered through a 2 miles radius and not in a more punctual fashion as it would be expected from an accidented plane...

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

it didn't take me long to come to the same conclusion. this is just more anti-semetic bull shit. i, too, am done and won't waste any more time on it. guess i'll go find a cliff to run off the edge of...

_________________
My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

C-SPAN to Air Historic 9/11 Exposé
9/11 + The Neo-Con Agenda Panel Discussion to Run on Saturday, July 29th at 8PM (EST)



C-SPAN has confirmed that their coverage of the 9/11 + The Neo-Con Agenda Panel Discussion will air on C-SPAN 1 on July 29th at 8PM (EST). The panel features incredible presentations by 9/11 Scholars for Truth founder James Fetzer, BYU Physics Professor Steven Jones, President of the Institute for Space and Security Studies Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, ret., Filmmaker and Radio Broadcaster Alex Jones, and Terrorism Expert Webster Tarpley.

The appearance of this discussion on the nation’s premiere public affairs cable network is an incredible boon to the 9/11 Truth Movement. None of the 9/11 Truth events that C-SPAN has covered in the past are as hard-hitting as the 9/11 + The Neo-Con Agenda program. This panel discussion cuts to the heart of the issue and exposes the events of September 11th, 2001 as a complex premeditated plot carried out by criminal elements within the U.S. Government as a pretext for launching a the endless “War on Terrorâ€￾ in which the globe is currently embroiled. C-SPAN’s coverage of this pivotal information will bring considerable national attention to the 9/11 Truth Movement. It will also lend further credibility to the Scholars for 9/11 Truth, the premiere organization within the movement for peer-reviewed scientific research on 9/11 issues.

Each member of the panel brought their own particular perspective and expertise to the discussion while each maintained throughout their comments that 9/11 was an “inside job.â€￾

Alex Jones, a progenitor of the 9/11 Truth Movement introduced the panel and acted as moderator. Professor Steven E. Jones, an expert in Physics, re-capped his vital new research which has conclusively proven that demolition incendiaries were used to bring down World Trade Center and could have only been placed there in advance of 9/11.

As a Distinguished McKnight University Professor of Philosophy at the University of Minnesota and a former Marine Corps officer, James Fetzer cut through the myths surrounding the 9/11 hijackers. Former Air Force Interceptor Pilot Robert Bowman brought up the lack of air defense on the day of 9/11 and shed light on the slough of drills conducted on 9/11 to distract the military and prevent Flights 11 & 77 from being shot down.

Finally Author and Historian Webster Tarpley tied all of the information together to paint a picture of 9/11. He described the drills, Bush’s actions and the blow-by-blow details of that fateful day that revealed what could only be called the horrible truth of a conspiracy fact.

It is crucial that everyone see this historic panel discussion on C-SPAN. Tell your friends and family, email colleagues, and post links on message boards. This is an incredible step in spreading the word about the truth about 9/11.

The program will air on C-SPAN 1 at 8PM EST (7PM CST) on Saturday, July 29th and then air again for the West Coast at 11pm EST (10pm CST).

http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/cspan_runs_symposium_panel.htm

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

This should be an interesting evening of tv.
I wonder if it will ever catch on in the mainstream media
Gee, wouldn't that be nice.
My guess is the full implications of who are ultimately implicit
in 9/11 will surface right after all the papers on the kennedy assassination are
released to the general public.

_________________
Wanna Buy A Grunt With A Third Party Check

C-Span Airing Of L.A. Conference Shows Mainstreaming Of 9/11 Truth
Fresh injection of credibility advances movement

Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | July 28 2006

A decision that many of us were waiting on with baited breath - C-Span's scheduling of the American Scholars Symposium highlights - infuses the 9/11 truth movement with a fresh injection of credibility and exposure to more mainstream audiences.

The panel features incredible presentations by 9/11 Scholars for Truth founder James Fetzer, BYU Physics Professor Steven Jones, President of the Institute for Space and Security Studies Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, ret., Filmmaker and Radio Broadcaster Alex Jones, and Terrorism Expert Webster Tarpley.

C-Span viewers will witness what many consider to be the most hard hitting conference to date including the most professional and credible speakers ever assembled.

Many have expressed a degree of frustration that some quarters of the 9/11 truth movement are not as bold in their stance when drawing conclusions about 9/11 evidence as is necessary to make an impact. The American Scholars Symposium was crystal clear in its summation that 9/11 represents an inside job carried out by criminal elements within the US government. The deliberate implosion of the twin towers and Building 7 allied with the reversal of routine air defense procedures leave no other explanation than the fact that the attack was a self-inflicted wound.

Preaching to the choir is a method best left in the past and the C-Span airing is a positive step towards reaching out and educating those who remain in the dark about the staggering volume of evidence which clearly indicates that the official story behind 9/11 is a fraud.

The distinction, background and high esteem of the speakers at the conference, coupled with C-Span's notable reputation as a bellwether of the mainstream body politic, provides for a perfect symbiosis to advance the credibility and critical acclaim of the 9/11 truth movement as something far weightier and more influential than a cadre of conspiracy theorists - a label still peddled by fading elements of the blowhard establishment press.

It is crucial that everyone see this historic panel discussion on C-SPAN. Tell your friends and family, email colleagues, and post links on message boards. This is an incredible step in spreading the word about the truth about 9/11. It is vital that you focus your educational efforts solely on those who are still unaware of cover-up pertaining to 9/11.

The program will air on C-SPAN 1 at 8PM EST (7PM CST) on Saturday, July 29th and then air again for the West Coast at 11pm EST (10pm CST). You can watch the program online at the times stated above by clicking here.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/cspan_airing_conference_shows_mainstreaming.htm

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Please, quit being such a bunch of goddamned idiots.

http://tinyurl.com/hevbg

http://tinyurl.com/jnfp8

http://tinyurl.com/s8ouv

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0794722240

and if you need it dumbed down a little:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net ... 911_morons

I think that to call people morons and idiots is not the best way to make an argument...

I'd say, stop being blind, but I don't think you gonna find it nice either...

Osama?! Oh, yeah, the guy who helped the US on Afeganistan and who's family have billionaire business with the Bush family, I know that guy...

BTW, I caught a bit of the C-SPAN broadcast yesterday on the internet and it is amazing the number of organized people looking to go to the bottom of this...

Will somebody ratioanally explain me how did the biggest, most powerfull air force in the world let its central security brain and other strategical targets to be hit by strayed planes? That is amazing...

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Yeah, Osama. The US has a long history of enemy-of-my-enemy foreign policy, and it has finally bit us in the ass (again). Nothing mysterious or sinister there, just plain stupid.

All the king's horses and all the king's men can't even hide a friggin blowjob during the Clinton years or a third-rate amateur burglary during the Nixon years. Why the hell do you think they'd be able to hide the single biggest crime in the history of history?

Why is it easier for you to believe in some convoluted all-encompassing conspiracy that 1) required years of undetected preparation and planning, including planting explosives in building where 10s of thousands of people worked every day, 2) involves the active and knowing participation of thousands of people all sworn to silence, and 3) doesn't even have a very good motive, than it is to believe that religious fanatics were able to overcome institutional bureaucratic incompetency?

Why do you need to believe that The Government(tm) is some all-knowing, all-powerful Mount Olympus of superhumans that somehow aren't subject to the same stupidity and failures as everyone else?

Hum, because they control the entire media, and most of all, because actually they couldn't hide it, it is still surfacing?



To understand the middle term planning of 911 you need to know about the PNAC:

PNAC (Project For New American Century) The Neocon plan for world domination and how they would need a NEW "pearl harbor" in order to carry out their plans. Written in 1997 by members of the Bush Administration and American Coproate Businessmen (NWO)
http://www.pnac.info/
http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/pnac.html

To understand the longer term planning of the current evolving conflict in the world see:

http://www.zappa.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=234536#234536




The way I see it, a few dozens of very powerful and influential figures could architect and conduct it.

Compartimentalized missions for the secret services could do it, while the guys carrying it not even knowing what was really going on.

There are actually reports of the WT having whole sections evacuated during the night prior to 911.. I actually just found a video about it:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fcUQg3DadaA&mode=related&search=


Oh, make sure to check WTC building 7 coming down and explain me how the heck does a building that big comes down even if it was unexpoiled by planes...

The hijackers, as far as I am concerned, could be lead into participating on the plot, or even being plain patzies (?) on the story. Or did you belive they really found the guy's credit card on the floor at ground zero?



A motive as in ivading Afeghanistan, Iraq and then the rest of the region, starting from Gaza then Lebanon?



Because when it comes to national security, the gov't is only a detail. The military pay people to stay day and night monitoring and ready to act swifitly at any place in the US, imagine the fucking PENTAGON!

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

So they are powerful enough to control "the entire media", but not a few websites?

f you wanted to increase defense spending in the areas that the PNAC recommends, what is the LAST thing you'd want to do? Answer: get involved in a ground war and subsequent occupation of a country where many citizens (and foreigners from neighboring states) are fighting a guerilla-style campaign against you and against each other with AK-47s, RPGs, and IEDs made from cell phones and 10,000 tons of old artillery shells.

The disaster in Iraq is the opposite of what the PNAC would want to happen to help effect the military transformation they desired in 2000. So why did those same people lie to us and use fear of terrorism as a pretext to invade Iraq? Because they thought replacing Saddam Hussein would be easy. They didn't listen to the generals, they ignored the intelligence reports, and they expected to be greeted with open arms by the Iraqi people after ousting Hussein. These are the same people conspiracy theorists think are so clever that they can hide a massive conspiracy.

They're the same "neo-cons" who are under investigation for their petty revenge against Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson. They couldn't even handle THAT without screwing up.

WTC 7 was hit and severely damaged by burning debris from the collapse of WTC 1. It caught fire and burned for hours without any intervention from FDNYH. Add NYC fire chiefs Cruthers and Nigro to your ever-growing list of people who must have been "in on it" if you still insist on doubting this.

If the entire motive was to invade Afghanistan (why? for the rugs?) and Iraq, why was obliteraing thousands of innocent American lives and a huge part of the economic machinery necessary? If we're to believe that "The Planners" are so evil and contemptible that they'll do all this just to invade a couple of countries, why don't we believe that they would just skip all this trouble (and the infinitely huge risk of getting caught or ratted out) and go ahead and invade anyway?

Yes, the military pay people to stay day and night monitoring and ready to act swiftly at any place in the US. Imagine the fucking PENTAGON.

Sometimes, people and bureaucratic institutions fuck up in BIG ways, and shit like this happens.

Somehow, that's a bit scarier than believing that there's some sort of Central Scrutinizer behind the scenes controlling it all, isn't it?