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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:05 am 
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brainpang wrote:
I don't like this picking on BS. One may not agree with him, but at least he has something to say. A very rare trait on this forum.

He should have left me alone rather than bait me over the last few months. You probably haven't been a recipient of his insulting emails.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:28 am 
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jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
brainpang wrote:
I don't like this picking on BS. One may not agree with him, but at least he has something to say. A very rare trait on this forum.

He should have left me alone rather than bait me over the last few months. You probably haven't been a recipient of his insulting emails.


fair enough.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:07 am 
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I am not trying to "bait" any one, just pooting out my opinion.

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 Post subject: Building 7 delay
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:29 am 
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Yes, brainpang, you ask a good question. The leading theory on why the building did not implode until later has to do with the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. Perhaps it was meant to have crashed into building 7, but something went wrong. There is an PBS documentary that has the owner of the WTC stating that they decided to "pull" building 7 that afternoon. "Pull" is a term used by professional demolitionists to refer to the bringing down of a structure. The set up for that cannot be done in a matter of hours, it had to have been wired before hand.

Can't you see that I've done my research on this and I know what I'm talking about? Every goddamn forum I go to has some asshole like you or BS that thinks their arguments are solid, but they ware weak as hell, man. Your mind is full of media bullshit. They are under no obligation to tell you the truth...zero...but you still think they would never lie to you...even though they have admitted lying many times. They just recently revealed that the Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened. The whole goddamned Vietnam War was based on a lie...does that sound familiar?

Shit.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:31 pm 
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I know the folks can and are lied to, just not on this subject.

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 Post subject: Details, please...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:55 am 
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Pray tell, BS...what is it about this event that makes you trust the official line?


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 Post subject: Re: Details, please...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:08 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
I am not trying to "bait" any one, just pooting out my opinion.

.....or is it Bill O'Reilly's opinion? 8)

Shark_Barker wrote:
Pray tell, BS...what is it about this event that makes you trust the official line?

This might help you to understand BRAVO SIERRA. BS once told me that I needed to watch Bill O'Reilly's cable tv show in order to attain true enlightenment.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:14 am 
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I do not need the oreilly factor, I just like to watch it, also the radio factor is great! As for my opinion on bldg. 7 . Go to the debunking 911.com site. It is definitive.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:33 pm 
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Why is this thread on a Zappa forum?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:59 am 
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Because the story of Muslims extremists with boxcutters is a plain legend/myth...?

Judge rejects 9/11 burial claims

A US judge has dismissed a legal case claiming that the New York authorities denied proper burials to the victims of the attacks on 11 September 2001.


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Construction work is still going on at the site of the attacks

Relatives of World Trade Center victims claimed the city acted wrongly by sending debris that might have held remains to a rubbish dump.

The lawsuit asked for the debris to be removed to land that could be turned into a cemetery.

But the judge said the families had no claim to the removed material.

"Plaintiffs have no property right in an undifferentiated, unidentifiable mass of dirt that may or may not contain the remains of plaintiffs' loved ones," said district judge Alvin Hellerstein.

He said city officials had made "difficult and complicated" decisions about the debris, but concluded they had "acted responsibly" in bringing about a "swift and efficient recovery from the terrorists' attack".

He recommended the creation of a memorial and a nature reserve at the landfill site.

One of the lawyers for the relatives said he was "extremely disappointed" by the ruling.

"The 9/11 families sought to rectify an egregious wrong that occurred regarding the disposition of human remains," Norman Siegel said.

"We are not prepared to leave hundreds of human remains of 9/11 victims on top of a garbage dump as their final resting place."

No remains were found of more than 1,000 victims of the attacks on the World Trade Center.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7494633.stm

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:47 am 
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New BBC show on wtc7:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0229593250

Excellent program. The truthers will probably consider this a hit job, but I think they receive more than a fair airing.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:28 am 
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brainpang, you can't look to the mainstream media for the truth on this. Katie Couric is not going to hold your hand and tell you the facts, she's only going to tell you what she's told to tell you. 9/11 has been JFK'd...all you need do is know that they are lying and seek the truth elsewhere.

This documentary is being torn to shreds by truthers everywhere. Remember, the BBC reported that building 7 collapsed twenty minutes ahead of time. Nobody died in this collapse, becasue everyone was told to evacute the area. Why? Because they knew it was coming down. How could they know that, and why wren't they worried about building 5 or 6? It's not hard to get people to loie about things on film...especially when they are complicit and they have a stake in keeping the truth hidden.

Here, have a look at what smart people are saying...

http://www.911blogger.com/node/16565#comment


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:58 am 
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Shark_Barker wrote:
brainpang, you can't look to the mainstream media for the truth on this. Katie Couric is not going to hold your hand and tell you the facts, she's only going to tell you what she's told to tell you. 9/11 has been JFK'd...all you need do is know that they are lying and seek the truth elsewhere.

This documentary is being torn to shreds by truthers everywhere. Remember, the BBC reported that building 7 collapsed twenty minutes ahead of time. Nobody died in this collapse, becasue everyone was told to evacute the area. Why? Because they knew it was coming down. How could they know that, and why wren't they worried about building 5 or 6? It's not hard to get people to loie about things on film...especially when they are complicit and they have a stake in keeping the truth hidden.

Here, have a look at what smart people are saying...

http://www.911blogger.com/node/16565#comment



Shark_Barker...you are an idiot. Your belief in all these conspiracy theories are rooted in your own vanity. You want to know better than all of us other fools. You think can see through the truth of this event, while odds are you haven't a clue about seeing the truth of your own personal relationships in. life. I could be wrong, I guess. I do believe it's very possible that some people in the US government knew what was going to happen. Fact is though, that it was real passenger planes with real people in them, unless the perpetrators were so good as to infiltrate a ferret fanciers group that passed on the two ferrets to me who's owners (a mother and daughter) perished in one of the planes.
ALSO...nitwit...the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was headed toward Washington DC. Of course NYC wasn't far away, but that's where they were heading.
I can't believe I'm responding to this nonsense. All I'm sure of is that you have no style and are probably no one's favorite person. You're yucky


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:13 am 
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Just don't show him your penis...

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:55 am 
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I skipped the entire meat of this thread but I have to say after seeing some serious and clear evidence from the pentagon destruction... I dont think a plane hit that building. Something else went down on that one. The grass right in front of the impact area wasnt even touched.

I'm not entirely down with "the government did all of this" but that shit wasnt sitting well with me when I looked at all the evidence to the contrary. There is a video on netflix called 911: In Plane Sight on instant viewing about it... makes a pretty good case for it. I dont think I'm nuts for believing it either.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:20 am 
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Phlakaton wrote:
I skipped the entire meat of this thread but I have to say after seeing some serious and clear evidence from the pentagon destruction... I dont think a plane hit that building. Something else went down on that one. The grass right in front of the impact area wasnt even touched.


Read the book: Firefight: Inside the Battle to Save the Pentagon on 9/11

http://www.amazon.com/Firefight-Inside- ... 784&sr=1-1

To quote the review: "It only took eight-tenths of a second for American Airlines for American Airlines Flight 77 to strike the outer wall of the Pentagon, penetrate the concentric E, D and C Rings, collapse upon itself like an accordion and ignite chaos. "

Who ya gonna believe? The heros on the ground or the numbskull's of Loose Change?


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 Post subject: Here we go again!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:23 am 
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Here we go again with the baby-like protests. Name-calling, errant insinuations...these are the tools of people that have no argument.

viva...

If you have read me carefully, which you haven't, you would know that I've never said that those planes did not have people in them. So, you have some ferrets owned by victims of the event. That proves it wasn't an inside job? All I've ever said about this is that the buildings were obviously demolished professionally. If you have read me, you would know that. So, the plane was headed for DC...something obviously went wrong, right? Again, I've only said that it's a specualtive theory that the flight was meant for building 7. You do understand that, right? Then why make like I said it was a fact?

So, the name calling ferret lover says I have no style. Yet, I've posted several essays and rants here that are just fine composition-wise. Folks here have read them, and some have complimented me. What have you done in your artistic life? Hone your defamation skills? I tend to do that on a collective level, rather than a personal level. People that think there's no way 9/11 was an inside job are hiding their heads in the sand. Folks that can watch a skyscraper fall completely to the ground in a matter of a few seconds and NOT think something's amis are not very well educated. Can you see the difference in those statements, and your statements?

As for your comments on my ability to understand my personal life, well, what the fuck do you really know about it? You only know what you've read, and from what I can tell from your post, you don't read very well. I'm nobody's favorite person, and you are? I'll bet they love it when you make incorrect assumptions about them and call them stupid. That's America for ya..."he kicked him in the balls and said he was an idiot. He wins!"

You, my friend, should know better than to fuck with the shark. You can call me an idiot, assert that I'm gay, indicate that I might be a dangerous assassin...but what you cannot do is sucessfully refute my arguments. That's why you resort to these childish ways. Threads such as these are not so much about convincing you as they are about educating the casual reader. Anyone with any kind of critical thinking skills smells a rat on this issue, and when you call me an idiot, you call millions of your fellow citizens idiots. That's why the perpetraitors of this crime will go free...because folks like you think smart people are stupid, and don't listen, because you think you already know it all, and the criminals that run this country scat off while we bicker.

Back to bed now, children!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:28 am 
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All the Pentagon as to do is release clear footage of the airliner hitting the building, and these no-plane guys will shut-up. With all the cameras around that place, they surely have better footage than what they have released. But, they haven't released it. Why? It's one of two things...the footage is damning, or they are waiting for a good time to make the no-planers look foolish. In any case, they could end this no-plane conversation today, if they wanted to.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:30 am 
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I'll check out the book. Thanks. You should check out the video I mentioned too. People on the ground said plenty of things to the contrary just as much as the "heros." I'm no expert on anything related to planes hitting buildings at high speed and maybe it could have dissolved into minature pieces upon impact but it still doesnt make much sense how the building was left afterward to me. My aunt works at the Pentagon and said she didnt think it was a plane either.

At the Dept. of Defense (DoD) News Briefing on September 12, 2001, the words "American Airlines," "Flight 77," "Boeing," "Dulles," and "passengers" were not mentioned.

Standing in front of the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, Jamie McIntyre, CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent since November 1992, reported: "From my close up inspection there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon. . . . . The only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you could pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage - nothing like that anywhere around which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon. . . . It wasn't till about 45 minutes later . . . that all of the floors collapsed."

Arlington County Fire Chief Ed Plaugher, incident commander at the Pentagon on September 11, corroborates Jamie McIntyre's report. At the September 12, 2001, DoD briefing, when asked: "Is there anything left of the aircraft at all?" said: "there are some small pieces of aircraft ... there's no fuselage sections and that sort of thing."

Victoria Clarke, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs - "presenter" of the DoD briefing, did not contradict Chief Plaugher.

Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski, who from her fifth-floor, B-ring office at the Pentagon, witnessed "an unforgettable fireball, 20 to 30 feet in diameter," was called for stretcher duty. She describes "a strange absence of airliner debris, there was no sign of the kind of damage to the Pentagon structure one would expect from the impact of a large airliner. This visible evidence or lack thereof may also have been apparent to the secretary of defense, who in an unfortunate slip of the tongue referred to the aircraft that slammed into the Pentagon as a 'missile'. "

Barbara Honegger, military affairs journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School, writes that NORAD's: "Gen. Larry Arnold, revealed that he ordered one of his jets to fly down low over the Pentagon shortly after the attack that morning, and that his pilot reported back that there was no evidence that a plane had hit the building."

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:33 am 
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Shark_Barker wrote:
All the Pentagon as to do is release clear footage of the airliner hitting the building, and these no-plane guys will shut-up. With all the cameras around that place, they surely have better footage than what they have released. But, they haven't released it. Why? It's one of two things...the footage is damning, or they are waiting for a good time to make the no-planers look foolish. In any case, they could end this no-plane conversation today, if they wanted to.


Eight-tenths of a second, chum. And actually, the tail fin has been captured on video. Doubt they pointed that out in Loose Change (revised to fit our latest obsessions) Final Final Final Cut.

I cannot take you seriously because you make too many assumptions about those who disagree with you. Can't you understand that I reject your theories? That's all.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:34 am 
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Shark_Barker wrote:
All the Pentagon as to do is release clear footage of the airliner hitting the building, and these no-plane guys will shut-up. With all the cameras around that place, they surely have better footage than what they have released. But, they haven't released it. Why? It's one of two things...the footage is damning, or they are waiting for a good time to make the no-planers look foolish. In any case, they could end this no-plane conversation today, if they wanted to.


My thought exactly. When am I going to me made a fool?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:37 am 
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brainpang wrote:
Shark_Barker wrote:
All the Pentagon as to do is release clear footage of the airliner hitting the building, and these no-plane guys will shut-up. With all the cameras around that place, they surely have better footage than what they have released. But, they haven't released it. Why? It's one of two things...the footage is damning, or they are waiting for a good time to make the no-planers look foolish. In any case, they could end this no-plane conversation today, if they wanted to.


Eight-tenths of a second, chum. And actually, the tail fin has been captured on video. Doubt they pointed that out in Loose Change (revised to fit our latest obsessions) Final Final Final Cut.

I cannot take you seriously because you make too many assumptions about those who disagree with you. Can't you understand that I reject your theories? That's all.


eight tenths of a second doesnt mean the damn plane flew that fast across a whole area that a camera could have filmed. We're not talking the speed of light here. The pentagon surely has cameras covering outlying areas and then take into account the 30 frames a second... I'm sure you'd find a plane in the frames somewhere. Point me to the reference of the tail section... I didnt see that one.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:39 am 
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I believe I have seen that one, Mr. P. but will check it out again.
I watch 'em all, both sides.
The plane enetered the Pentagon 14 feet above the ground.
Watch the WTC Towers get hit. Like butter.
It's really not hard to understand why there is no 'evidence' outside the Pentagon.
Anyway, I'm afraid I must side with the actual people who pulled body parts and airplane parts out of the rubble.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:23 am 
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brainpang wrote:
I believe I have seen that one, Mr. P. but will check it out again.
I watch 'em all, both sides.
The plane enetered the Pentagon 14 feet above the ground.
Watch the WTC Towers get hit. Like butter.
It's really not hard to understand why there is no 'evidence' outside the Pentagon.
Anyway, I'm afraid I must side with the actual people who pulled body parts and airplane parts out of the rubble.


I certainly would side with those who worked the scene too. I guess I'm just curious when it comes to more proof to the contrary. HA :P

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 Post subject: Assumptions?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:42 am 
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brianpang...you make assumptions about me, as well.

Please, if you will, link to the clear photo of the tailfin.

As I've said before, Allah surely must have been their co-pilot. To fly a jetliner that well after only a few lessons is pretty unlikely, and to have three skyscrapers fall completely down after only a relatively small amount of damage, well...I'll just say it...there must have been Devine Intervention.

Maybe Mohammed IS the true prophet...or maybe a bunch of guys that needed a serious attack on the US to further their agendas got together to make it happen.

Which is more likely?


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