Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:40 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 478 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 ... 20  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Details, please...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:50 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Michigan
jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
I am not trying to "bait" any one, just pooting out my opinion.

.....or is it Bill O'Reilly's opinion? 8)

Shark_Barker wrote:
Pray tell, BS...what is it about this event that makes you trust the official line?

This might help you to understand BRAVO SIERRA. BS once told me that I needed to watch Bill O'Reilly's cable tv show in order to attain true enlightenment.

Image


Bill O'Reilly is a big Blubbering Vagina.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net ... ll_oreilly


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:53 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:37 pm
Posts: 1786
Nuke Iran NOW.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:11 am
Posts: 3484
Miss quote, I never tell any body to do any thing, well maybe fuckyourself. I do think that you get a balanced news report form O'Reilly. If that is enlightenment ,so be it.

_________________
Confusion will be my epitaph


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:17 pm
Posts: 379
Still waiting for that tailfin photo, pangbrain.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:03 pm
Posts: 28
Location: zanussi
jhkjghk


Last edited by joey psychotic on Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Look and learn!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:17 pm
Posts: 379
http://www.911blogger.com/node/16595#comment

Anxiously awaiting that tailfin photo, brainpang...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:35 am 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:25 pm
Posts: 4071
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland
It seems to me that you're more eager than anxious, but I'm not inside your head, so I could be wrong. :wink:

_________________
"If Frank Zappa cut a fart and mixed it to stereo, I'd buy it!" - jimmie d


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 3529
jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
It seems to me that you're more eager than anxious, but I'm not inside your head, so I could be wrong. :wink:


Like all 911 c-theorists, Mr. Barker lives for that "gotcha" moment.
That's why the '911truth' movement is dying, because there are none.
We can both surf and come up with links all day long but what good would it do? I prefer to keep things simple, and I never, no never get an answer from the c-theorists.
Here's One:
It's pretty much confirmed (unless yr totally insane) that 2 planes hit the
WTC towers. What makes it so hard to believe that another plane did not hit the Pentagon? Are you aware that the plane WAS found inside the rubble, as well as the body parts of those who boarded the flight roughly an hour before? Please explain how the evidence found it's way into the rubble. Did someone put it there AFTER the 'missile' did the deed?
And if so, why bother? If it WAS a conspiracy, why not just use the plane?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:48 pm
Posts: 971
Location: Austin
The movement as you call it might be dying simply because like all government functions... nothing ever gets done. They could have house juduciary meetings all day long about it but nothing ever gets solved or decided on. What could come of it ever? Nothing if you ask me. The administration will never release anything to the contrary and why should they. This mess is the reason we're in another huge mess.

People can only talk about this stuff for so long anyway.

Can you give me a link to some official record from the DOD or some other government agency that covered the Pentagon so I can read for myself what bodies were found? Just because someone wrote a book and said bodies were found doesnt mean its the end-all-be-all truth. Not that government record would either if you're a skeptic about it like I am.

I think the bottom line is we all can sit here and talk about it but nobody will come to an agreement anyway. haha.

_________________
Take a penny... give a shit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:45 am
Posts: 779
Thought I'd post this little passage taken from "Things The Grandchildren Should Know," Mark E Everett's (E from Eels) autobiography. E is not the kind of person willing to be a government mouthpiece or lackey, happy to spread misinformation to keep the populace ignorant; he's an exceptionally gifted musician who has endured a serious amount of personal tragedy in his life, which got that little bit worse on 9/11:

"There were all sorts of rumours about other planes on their way to hit other targets and areas. As we set up to play at the radio station we were told there was a rumour that a hijacked plane was on the way to crash into the west end of London, which was where we were. We figured if we're going out, we might as well go out rocking. We sent one of the roadies down to get some beer and proceeded to play, wondering if we were about to die at any given moment.

"The rumour turned out to only be a rumour. We finished our session and went back to the hotel. I checked my messages in America and heard the voice of my Aunt Sally saying she had some bad news. My cousin Jennifer and her husband were flight attendants on the plane that hit the Pentagon earlier in the day. Usually they don't let married flight attendants work on the same flight, but since they were going to take a vacation in LA at the end of the flight, the airline made an exception and let them work together this one time. It was horrible to hear stories on TV about how the flight attendants possibly being tortured and killed first. A few months later the only remains they could find were returned to my Aunt Britt and Uncle Bob, Jennifer's parents: her charred flight bag."

_________________
"I don't think Pop Tarts have any place in our Lord's plans for the world."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 3529
Phlakaton wrote:
The movement as you call it might be dying simply because like all government functions... nothing ever gets done. They could have house juduciary meetings all day long about it but nothing ever gets solved or decided on. What could come of it ever? Nothing if you ask me. The administration will never release anything to the contrary and why should they. This mess is the reason we're in another huge mess.

People can only talk about this stuff for so long anyway.

Can you give me a link to some official record from the DOD or some other government agency that covered the Pentagon so I can read for myself what bodies were found? Just because someone wrote a book and said bodies were found doesnt mean its the end-all-be-all truth. Not that government record would either if you're a skeptic about it like I am.

I think the bottom line is we all can sit here and talk about it but nobody will come to an agreement anyway. haha.


You are giving skeptics a bad name. I cannot do your homework for ya.
This is way too depressing for me. Sayonara!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:47 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:44 pm
Posts: 7813
Location: Underneath Virginia
Shark_Barker wrote:
Here's the thing, BS...you cannot disagree with physics.


"...unless you are a conspiracy theorist," in which "physics" is whatever can be twisted into a claim that the government planned and executed 9/11, even if said "physics" have no basis in reality.

Shark_Barker wrote:
Yeah, I've been to that website...what they cannot explain away with bad science they dismiss as untrue.


What doesn't conform to your viewpoint, you dismiss as untrue because you, much like other conspiracy theorists, refuse to admit that you are wrong.

[size=0]Isaac[/size]

_________________
I want dis little pussy
Baby wants some o' dis
And some o' dat
Don't treat me, baby, like your
Any old Alley Cat
Alley Cat, Alley Cat


Jimmie D Fan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:45 am
Posts: 779
Isaac wrote:
Shark_Barker wrote:
Here's the thing, BS...you cannot disagree with physics.


"...unless you are a conspiracy theorist," in which "physics" is whatever can be twisted into a claim that the government planned and executed 9/11, even if said "physics" have no basis in reality.

Shark_Barker wrote:
Yeah, I've been to that website...what they cannot explain away with bad science they dismiss as untrue.


What doesn't conform to your viewpoint, you dismiss as untrue because you, much like other conspiracy theorists, refuse to admit that you are wrong.

[size=0]Isaac[/size]


Shark: in your own words, you've done the research. There are articles out there saying the physics are impossible. Thing is, there are articles out there saying the opposite. Here's a link to the abstract of one, for example:

http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/1216

The interesting thing about this one is that they don't take into account the damage caused by the plane impacts, but focus on the effects of fires comparable to those caused by the impacts. They found that the fires alone could cause a collapse, never mind the impact that caused the blaze.

I've no doubt this is but one of many articles highlighting the fact that the collapse of the Twin Towers was perfectly reasonable given what happened. Why do you dismiss these and insist the physics is impossible? Do you have the relevant training to objectively take one side over another?

_________________
"I don't think Pop Tarts have any place in our Lord's plans for the world."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:48 pm
Posts: 971
Location: Austin
brainpang wrote:
Phlakaton wrote:
The movement as you call it might be dying simply because like all government functions... nothing ever gets done. They could have house juduciary meetings all day long about it but nothing ever gets solved or decided on. What could come of it ever? Nothing if you ask me. The administration will never release anything to the contrary and why should they. This mess is the reason we're in another huge mess.

People can only talk about this stuff for so long anyway.

Can you give me a link to some official record from the DOD or some other government agency that covered the Pentagon so I can read for myself what bodies were found? Just because someone wrote a book and said bodies were found doesnt mean its the end-all-be-all truth. Not that government record would either if you're a skeptic about it like I am.

I think the bottom line is we all can sit here and talk about it but nobody will come to an agreement anyway. haha.


You are giving skeptics a bad name. I cannot do your homework for ya.
This is way too depressing for me. Sayonara!


Come on... I dont have the time to get all these docs together. I half-heartedly get into these threads anyway and I shouldnt. I just saw some video and read some articles and thought... it could have been something else since we havent been supplied with obvious evidence (basically footage of a plane hitting the building). Some people could take my flippant attitude about such things as sick or disturbing... or even disrespectful. I feel bad for thinking it could be something else and that a real plane with real people got killed on that day. I can still have thoughts to the contrary though. If that makes me a monster or some sick disturbed person than so be it.

Adios thread for me too then.

_________________
Take a penny... give a shit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:17 pm
Posts: 379
Here's over 400 architects and engineers that question the official line on 911...

www.ae911truth.org

Here's some airplane pilots that question the official story...

www.pilotsfor911truth.org

Here's some other folks who have signed up...

www.patriotsquestion911.com

You don't have to take it from me, you can go to the experts.

But, to me, expert training isn't necessary. No skyscraper has ever fallen straight down in a matter of a few seconds for any reason other than controlled demolition. On 9/11 it happened three times. Buildings blown to bits by missles don't even fall straight down...in fact, they manage to stay standing until someone comes along to clean up the mess.

Yes, there is a lot of conflicting claims and information out there...but no one I know of is really denying the facts of physics...they are simply trying to make the facts of physics fit in a way that will explain how the buildings fell the way they did. This can be bad science. The NIST report starts with the assumption that the towers fell due to impact of the planes and subsequent fires, and goes from there to try to paint a picture of how it happened. Real science starts from logic...how do buildings fall so quickly and symetrically...and goes from there.

Falling objects take the path of least resistance...which in all three cases here appears to have been straight down through the floors below...which simply isn't plausible, unless the floors were being blown to smithers. If the buildings had fell due to weakened steel and gravity, the collapses would have been much slower, perhaps even toppling. There would have been much more debris, pancaked floors, and one hell of a mess of carpet and furniture. Instead, what we have is pulverized concrete, truck-sized steel beams, huge pyroclastic clouds, and molten steel.

There was simply no real investigation into how the buildings fell. Most of the evidence was hauled away very quickly. Pools of molten steel lay under the debris for weeks afterward. Do you know what Thermate is?

I'm not an expert, but I have been inside the inner workings of a skyscraper. These are not card-houses. At the very least, ordinary persons should be suspicious of what caused those buildings to collapse and should be demanding a complete and independent investigation, instead of dismissing those of us who are only trying to put the obvious into focus as whackos.

It boils down to who to believe, I guess...and I have never trusted the government or the corporate media, neither of which has any obligation to be truthful, and both of which are known liars, and both of which have plenty of stake in the status quo. The mainstream media rarely gives truthers a fair chance to speak, they simply look at us from afar and say "Nutjob!" That's because if we ever got the exposure we deserve, the tide would turn quite quickly, because the truther's case is quite solid.
Truthers are adamant and strident because they understand the implications of this criminal hoax...and what happens to them? They lose their jobs, they lose friends, they get made fun of.

What a shame.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:52 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:37 pm
Posts: 1786
jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
It seems to me that you're more eager than anxious, but I'm not inside your head, so I could be wrong. :wink:


His haid is ful of der GEENius Molecules.......

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:11 am
Posts: 3484
OK Shark, hey , no shit I think you are reasonable. Hell you are the best.

_________________
Confusion will be my epitaph


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 12:41 pm
Posts: 13652
Location: Billy, the mountain...
Let them be Sharky, one day the truth will bite their asses and then they will remember you...

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:36 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:37 pm
Posts: 1786
Shark Barf,

You will find a close ally in GG. He's the forum conspiracy monitor.

Your GENIUS will work on him, for sure.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:14 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:44 pm
Posts: 7813
Location: Underneath Virginia
Shark_Barker wrote:
You don't have to take it from me, you can go to the experts.


Except when the "experts" finally say that there's no evidence of any of these claims, then they are no longer "experts" in your view.

[size=0]Isaac[/size]

_________________
I want dis little pussy
Baby wants some o' dis
And some o' dat
Don't treat me, baby, like your
Any old Alley Cat
Alley Cat, Alley Cat


Jimmie D Fan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:03 pm
Posts: 28
Location: zanussi
jhkjghk


Last edited by joey psychotic on Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:17 pm
Posts: 379
It's true that the experts "disagree", but I don't dismiss any expert out of hand. Every field has it's share of liars, cowards, and incompetents. I look at what they have to say before I make my judgements. The NIST report is a joke, and many experts agree with that.

The truth movement is a grassroots effort, taken on by concerned individuals. If there was any funding by our "enemies", I'm certain our proud American "journalists" would be able to discover this easily and make a huge scoop out of it. It hasn't happened, and it won't, because truthers are ordinary patriots that love their country, not terrorists out to destroy it. It should be pretty clear to anyone paying attention who the real destoyers are, but as long as there is a Muslim race to blame it on, that's where the guilt will be lain...by those that run the media, and by those brainwashed fools that drool along with every bite. Pabulum, pap, and propaganda are the brain food of the moronic masses, and that's the way it will be until these dumbfuckers turn off the TV and stop believing everything said by those in the pay of our ruling elite.

I've laid out my case as well as I can, I suppose. Nothing presented here as fodder to refute my arguments has moved me in the least. You can continue to guzzle down the corporate Kool-aid if you wish, and swallow all the bullshit you can handle...but the curse of this hoax and these wars rests with you, not me. I'm doing what's right, and my concious is clear.

Is yours?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:11 am
Posts: 3484
Yes and thankyou, Osama

_________________
Confusion will be my epitaph


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:45 am
Posts: 779
Shark_Barker wrote:
Here's over 400 architects and engineers that question the official line on 911...

www.ae911truth.org

Here's some airplane pilots that question the official story...

www.pilotsfor911truth.org

Here's some other folks who have signed up...

www.patriotsquestion911.com


I would imagine that there are many, many more architects, engineers, airline pilots etc out there that do not question the official line. These people have the expertise to comment intelligently on such matters, just as much as the truthers: why ignore them?

Shark_Barker wrote:
But, to me, expert training isn't necessary.


I'm sorry, but if someone wants to make such incredible, potentially damaging claims, and speaks with such confidence on the subject, the least they should be is an absolute expert in the field. How can anyone comment intelligently on the physics etc of the collapse if they have no training themselves? You don't ask a bicycle repair man to fix your car engine; you don't ask a surgeon to plan your radiotherapy regime; you don't ask someone without any knowledge of civil engineering to discuss the physics of building collapse.

Shark_Barker wrote:
No skyscraper has ever fallen straight down in a matter of a few seconds for any reason other than controlled demolition. On 9/11 it happened three times. Buildings blown to bits by missles don't even fall straight down...


I don't believe two skyscrapers had even been hit by fuel-filled jets travelling at close to maximum speed, either (correct me if I'm wrong!) Not everything has a precedent. Isn't it possible that the impact of a 80+ ton plane with a wingspan of close to 50 metres would be a bit more destructive than a missile, too?

Shark_Barker wrote:
The NIST report starts with the assumption that the towers fell due to impact of the planes and subsequent fires, and goes from there to try to paint a picture of how it happened. Real science starts from logic...how do buildings fall so quickly and symetrically...and goes from there.


I haven't read the NIST report, but this doesn't sound too illogical to me. Given events x (impact) and y (fires), is outcome z (collapse) possible? seems like a reasonable way to investigate things. If outcome z is implausible, look for a different explanation. I guess they conclude that it wasn't implausible.

Shark_Barker wrote:
It boils down to who to believe, I guess...and I have never trusted the government or the corporate media, neither of which has any obligation to be truthful, and both of which are known liars, and both of which have plenty of stake in the status quo.


As I've mentioned in a thread elsewhere, taking up the opposite point of view from "the Man/Establishment" as a matter of course is not an intelligent way of living. Not saying you're doing this mind, just that many do, and it's, as you say, a shame.

So to summarise: you discuss 9/11 truth in a manner that suggests you are an expert on such matters, and all those toeing the official line are deluded. You don't seem to be in any real position to speak with such authority, though. You've done a lot of research, sure, but I worry that without the required knowledge and training to objectively comment on such matters, you gravitate towards the (probably minority) views consistent with your anti-government stance.

Please note: I'm no expert either, so I'm not claiming truth on either side of the argument. I think that the 9/11 truthers, as well as the government, have an agenda, and both should be regarded with suspicion.

_________________
"I don't think Pop Tarts have any place in our Lord's plans for the world."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:17 pm
Posts: 379
As I've said, I don't ignore the official line experts, I disagree with them.

No, I don't have to be an expert in the field to make such claims. I've done my studies, and I've looked at all sides of this event. I honestly believe that if anyone would take a serious look at the links I've posted, and at the actual photos and videos of the event, they will come to the same conclusions as I have. I am accused of ignoring the experts by people who are ignoring the experts.

The Empire State building was hit by an Air Force bomber, and did not collapse. A skyscraper in Madrid burned for days and did not fall to the ground. There is an element of common sense here, as well as expertise. I know from my own experience that it takes a very hot fire to alter a steel beam.

Now, as for agendas...there is no agenda other than justice from the truth movement. As for those that are the likely perpetrators of this crime, their agenda is clear...it was spelled out back in the Nineties by a think tank called The Project for a New American Century. Many of the fellows that were in this group gained positions of influence in the Bush administration. Their agenda was to push American empire across the world using any means necessary, especially military might. One of the necessities of this plan, as stated by them, was that they would need a "New Pearl Harbor" to get the American people behind such military excursions. Knowing BushCo as we do, how can we imagine that they simply lucked out? Seeing the obvious physical anomalies of the event and enduring the subsequent and ongoing disinformation cover-up campaign should be an alarm for even the casual observer.

No, I'm not a physicist or engineer, but I am an intelligent person that has studied the events surrounding 9/11/2001. One could say I'm an expert on the subject. I've got about as much right and education as anyone when it comes to speaking about the truth of this matter, but I have also linked to well qualified persons that agree with me, so you don't have to just take my word. That's all I can do...it's up to you who you choose to trust.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 478 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 ... 20  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group