Zappa.com

Well, that is really well said, Studebaker. Sign me up on that opinion. Lots of questions, lots of thought provoking questions... but lots of tin-foil hat wearers too.

Well, thank you for the sympathies. Life is complicated sometimes, yes. I think that's why so many people waste their time trying to find answers to what really happened on 911. We all want everything to be either black or white. Good or evil.

Yes, I said waste their time. Because, the real truth won't come out anyway. It never does.

And, let me just say one more time for the world: I don't believe the official story and I don't believe the conspiracy theories pointing at the Bush administration either. Both sides are trying to win me over, saying that they have the truth. Well, by nature I am very sceptical to anyone who says they know the truth. About pretty much anything.

There are questions to be asked, yes. If it gives you any satisfaction, go on asking them. There's no reason why you shouldn't.

I have, as you implicated, other matters on my mind.

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"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."

I think the point here isn't trying to prove what really happened, but that if the official story isn't true, what does that mean exactly?

our government lied to us? yes, it would mean that

our government attacked it's own people to gain power and control? maybe.

I fail to see how these questions can be considered a waste of time.

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stroke me pompadour!

It will end up like the JFK theories, nothing more, in almost 43 years we still haven't a clue to the truth. When the goverment released video on the jet hitting the Pentagon recently it still leaves doubts. No debris, mysteriously it hit a section that was under construction and relatively unoccupied, lot's of questions. We'll never know the truth.

recovered.

_________________
My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

If anyone (Isaac?) still have any doubts that this is indeed spooky, just take a look at the official release of the pentagon strike video (3 min):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5658198482624505213&q=pentagon

Could you actually see a plane here? Did you know that they have about 50 different video shots of this evend? And under judicial obligation, they release that one? The one which had previously some frames released. They only added some frames in the strike moment, but still, it is not a true video (24 frames/sec)...


We might not get to know the whole truth now, but we might know what IS NOT TRUE in the official story told, and I think the inconsistencies are too many.

For example, the pentagon plane was said to execute (by air traffic controllers) a very skill demanding manoeuvring, that is said to be hard even to the most tallented pilots. Could a terrorist, who was trained in small censnas, fly a boeing with that prescision? Check what it would look like if it had crashed, see if it is compatible with the caused damage on the pentagon wall:

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

sorry, but i have nothing to do with the 9/11 conspiricy thing here or anywhere else. i personally file it away under a little truth can go a long way.

_________________
My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

I don't think so...

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Missing Gold

A King's Ransom in Precious Metals Seems to Have Disappeared

The basement of 4 World Trade Center housed vaults used to store gold and silver bullion. Published articles about precious metals recovered from the World Trade Center ruins in the aftermath of the attack mention less than $300 million worth of gold. All such reports appear to refer to a removal operation conducted in late October of 2001. On Nov. 1, Mayor Rudolph Giuliani announced that "more than $230 million" worth of gold and silver bars that had been stored in a bomb-proof vault had been recovered. A New York Times article contained:



Reports describing the contents of the vaults before the attack suggest that nearly $1 billion in precious metals was stored in the vaults. This article gives a figure of $650 million to the value of gold and silver in the 4 WTC vault:



An article in the TimesOnline gives the following rundown of precious metals that were being stored in the WTC vault belonging to Comex. 3

* Comex metals trading - 3,800 gold bars weighing 12 tonnes and worth more than $100 million
* Comex clients - 800,000 ounces of gold with a value of about $220 million
* Comex clients - 102 million ounces of silver, worth $430 million
* Bank of Nova Scotia - $200 million of gold

The TimesOnline article is not clear as to whether the $200 million in gold reported by the Bank of Nova Scotia was part of the $220 million in gold held by Comex for clients. If so, the total is $750 million; otherwise $950 million.

There appear to be no reports of precious metals discovered between November of 2001 and the completion of excavation several months later. It would seem that at least the better part of a billion dollars worth of precious metals went missing. It is not plausible that whatever destroyed the towers vaporized gold and silver, which are dense, inert metals that are extremely unlikely to participate in chemical reactions with other materials.

An article in The Sierra Times suggests that gold was recovered from two trucks in a tunnel under 5 World Trade Center, giving rise to suspicions that the trucks were being used to remove the gold from the vaults before the South Tower fell. 4 However, this report may have been based on an erroneous reading of other reports that describe the removal of crushed vehicles from a tunnel under 5 WTC in order to gain access to the vaults under 4 WTC to remove their contents. 5
References

1. Below Ground Zero, Silver and Gold, New York Times, 11/1/2001
2. Thanksgiving at Ground Zero, National Real Estate Investor, [cached]
3. Crushed towers give up cache of gold ingots, TimesOnline, 11/1/02 [cached]
4. Cache of Gold Found at WTC Two truckloads retrieved through a tunnel in rubble2, [cached]
5. , Reuters and New York Daily News, [cached]

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/gold.html

Secondary links to sources are in the above link.

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

I just got this in an e-mail from a friend.....

"UNBELIEVABLE!!!

1) New York City has 11 letters
2) Afghanistan has 11 letters.
3) Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened to destroy the Twin Towers in 1993) has 11 letters.
4) George W Bush has 11 letters.

This could be a mere coincidence, but this gets more interesting:

1) New York is the 11th state.
2) The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number11.
3) Flight 11 was carrying 92 passengers. 9 + 2 = 11
4) Flight 77 which also hit Twin Towers was carrying 65 passengers. 6+5 = 11
5) The tragedy was on September 11, or 9/11 as it is now known. 9 + 1+ 1 = 11
6) The date is equal to the US emergency services telephone number 911. 9 + 1 + 1 = 11.

Sheer coincidence..?! Read on and make up your own mind:



1) The total number of victims inside all the hi-jacked planes was 254. 2 + 5 + 4 = 11.
2) September 11 is day number 254 of the calendar year. Again 2 + 5 + 4 = 11.
3) The Madrid bombing took place on 3/11/2004. 3 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 4 = 11.
4) The tragedy of Madrid happened 911 days after the Twin Towers incident.



Now this is where things get totally eerie:



The most recognised symbol for the US, after the Stars & Stripes, is the Eagle. The following verse is taken from the
Quran, the Islamic holy book:

"For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt
Throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced: for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of
Allah and there was peace."
That verse is number 9.11 of the Quran.

Still unconvinced about all of this..?! Try this and see how you feel afterwards, it made my hair stand on end:



Open Microsoft Word and do the following:
Type in capitals Q33 NY. This is the flight
Number of the firstplane to hit one of the Twin Towers.
2. Highlight the Q33 NY.
3. Change the font size to 48.
4. Change the actual font to WINGDINGS"

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"Listen to that noise! It's like Barry White eating wasps."

Q33 NY
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

"Q33 NY" refers to an Internet hoax which was spread, often via e-mail, in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks. The hoax capitalizes on an oddity of the Wingdings symbol font.

The message claimed that "Q33 NY," the supposed "flight number" of one of the jetliners to hit the World Trade Center, becomes a message when rendered in Wingdings font.

In Wingdings, "Q33 NY" renders as:



However, "Q33 NY" is not an actual flight number or an aircraft registration number - it's a meaningless assemblage of letters and numbers designed to take advantage of the font's symbols.

In fact, no flight number has ever had the prefix "Q", as this is reserved for service abbreviations (see IATA airline designator and Q code for details.)

The actual flight designations of the airplanes striking the World Trade Center were American Airlines Flight 11 (first plane) and United Airlines Flight 175 (second plane).

It is worth noting that in New York, there is a bus route Q33 serving LaGuardia Airport, which was not connected with any of the flights used in

the attacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q33_NY

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Well there ya go, you learn something new everyday!

_________________
"Listen to that noise! It's like Barry White eating wasps."

It is still spooky Aspy !

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Yeah I thought so when I read my e-mail...weirdness eh?

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"Listen to that noise! It's like Barry White eating wasps."

now this is spooky..... dumb crapola has 11 letters too!

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''minimart - it's basically a scaled-down supermarket, fits inside a petrol station. sells pies, antifreeze..''

"Shut yer trap" does too!

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"Listen to that noise! It's like Barry White eating wasps."

..............

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"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."

Claim: Eerie coincidences pertaining to September 11 involve elevens, a Quran verse and Microsoft's Wingdings font.

Status: False.

Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2005]

1) New York City has 11 letters

2) Afghanistan has 11 letters.

3) Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened to destroy the Twin Towers in 1993) has 11 letters.

4) George W Bush has 11 letters.

This could be a mere coincidence, but this gets more interesting:

1) New York is the 11th state.

2) The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number 11.

3) Flight 11 was carrying 92 passengers. 9 + 2 = 11

4) Flight 77 which also hit Twin Towers, was carrying 65 passengers. 6 + 5 = 11

5) The tragedy was on September 11, or 9/11 as it is now known. 9 + 1 + 1 = 11

6) The date is equal to the US emergency services telephone number 911. 9 + 1 + 1 = 11.

Sheer coincidence..?! Read on and make up your own mind:

1) The total number of victims inside all the hi-jacked planes was 254. 2 + 5 + 4 = 11.

2) September 11 is day number 254 of the calendar year. Again 2 + 5 + 4 = 11.

3) The Madrid bombing took place on 3/11/2004. 3 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 4 = 11.

4) The tragedy of Madrid happened 911 days after the Twin Towers incident.

Now this is where things get totally eerie:

The most recognised symbol for the US, after the Stars & Stripes, is the Eagle. The following verse is taken from the Quran, the Islamic holy book:

"For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced: for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah and there was peace."

That verse is number 9.11 of the Quran.

Still uncovinced about all of this..?! Try this and see how you feel afterwards, it made my hair stand on end:

Open Microsoft Word and do the following:

1. Type in capitals Q33 NY. This is the flight number of the first plane to hit one of the Twin Towers.

2. Highlight the Q33 NY.

3. Change the font size to 48.

4. Change the actual font to the WINGDINGS

What do you think now?!!

Origins: In December 2005, this compilation e-mail that combined three earlier pieces about eerie coincidences relating to the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on America began appearing in our incoming mail, often prefaced by the forwarders as "Seriously spooky!," "Kind of freaky," "Weirding me out," and the like.

We've written about each of its three elements before, but since a number of folks will have their first encounter with any of the claims being advanced via exposure to this omnibus e-mail, we've gathered information about each into this one central
article.

While it would appear there were a seemingly unusual number of elevens arising from the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on America, it must be kept in mind that it is but human nature to search for patterns even where none exist. We attempt to impose a gestalt on randomness because chaos is impossible to comprehend, hence our fascination with recurrent themes. We feel something of great import is going on if a particular number comes up time and again, and we are unsettled by it.

Our article about the many elevens supposedly connected with the 9/11 attacks explains that it is not at all unusual for clumps of the same number to appear at any given moment. Those bothered by all the elevens might consider that the number of letters in "Washington," "World Trade Center" and "Twin Towers" don't add up to eleven.
Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened to destroy the Twin Towers in 1993) has 11 letters.
The last name of the mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing has been transliterated from Arabic in a number of ways, including Yousef, Yusuf, and Youssef; his first name is generally rendered as 'Ramzi'; and officials believe his birth name was actually Abdul Basit Karim. Only by selecting particular combinations of these transliterated names (such as "Ramsin Yuseb" or "Ramsi Yousef") does one arrive at an 11-letter result.

The compilation e-mail also claims that "The tragedy of Madrid happened 911 days after the Twin Towers incident," which wasn't the case in that the Madrid bombing took place 912 days after the 9/11 attacks. However, it would be fair to say 911 days separated the September 11 terrorist attacks on the U.S. and the March 11, 2004, train bombings in Madrid, Spain. We provide a far more detailed explanation in our article about this numerical oddity.

Regarding the purported Quran verse about the awakening of a fearsome eagle, our piece on that subject explains there is no such entry in that holy book, let alone one occuring in Chapter 9, Verse 11.

As we note in our article about the result produced by rendering "Q33 NY" in Microsoft's Wingdings font, there was no flight "Q33NY" involved in the terrorist attack on New York City — the two flights used to assault the Twin Towers were American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175.

this was from snopes

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My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

Wow, a government that lies to its own people to gain power and control? Oh no, I don't believe it...

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"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."

well said!

it seems to me too much of this stuff seems to start with a conclusion and then "facts" are picked to support the predetermined conclusion. i don't have the background to analyze every single aspect of this whole conspiricy thing nor do i have the time. all i can do is base my judgements on what i have heard professionals say about it. i have heard building demolition folks say that the explosives they use to bring down buildings degrade quickly that the amount of explosive required for a near simutaneous thing like this would be almost impossible to manage. there are many structural things done to the supporting framework of a building that is to be demolished to get them to fall the way they do. i have seen this in dozens of programs and videos showing what kinds of things these folks do. frankly, i don't see how or when charges could have been planted and crews could have done the other necessary work to weaken the structures without being seen. secret government invisibility cloaks? time travel?

i also know the way the Towers were constructed was unique and that no other buildings were constructed that way. so, without any other similar catostrophic failures to show how such a structure would react to the trauma inflicted, how is it logical to compare it to the way totally different structures that have been prepared for and razed by demomlition fall? it's too much of a stretch for me because the two are not the same.

some say the fire couldn't have done it. i know from building engines that gas and air produce some incredible combustion chamber temperatures and the damage that can result when things go awry is incredible. my interest in WWII includes Dresden and what the fires did there. the damage to the Towers was not unique in that sense. i saw a documentary about the failure and it seemed plausible enough to me.

i don't even want to get into the Pentagon part.

this whole 9/11 episode is so distorted that if there was anything to it, the powers that be wouldn't have to do a thing - just let the conspiricy set take over the story. before long the facts will become so distorted, confused, and discounted that finding an answer is impossible. there seems to be this mind set that all one has to do to be considered credible is say something different, the more far fetched the better, and hint at a sinister purpose.

the only truth i can grasp is the US is run by a group of idiots who care only about the wealthy and instituting a police state to keep the rabble in check. idiots are far more dangerous than evil people.

so, who am i supposed to believe? a structural engineer and a demolitions expert, my own knowledge? apparently not. credibility must go to those who see plots and secret plans everywhere. just like the crowd that denies the Holocaust, these days the world is so screwy that nothing anybody can dream up will go without supporters.

_________________
My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

Scientists, Notable Scholars and Experts to Join Syndicated Radio Host/Documentary Filmmaker/Media Activist Icon Alex Jones as he Hosts the Largest-Yet, Groundbreaking 9/11 Truth Symposium in Los Angeles Exposing Government Complicity and Lies about the September 11 th Attacks


American Scholar Symposium’s Speakers to Include Former Bush and Ford Cabinet Members, Professors from Prominent Universities and Surprise Celebrity Guests

Los Angeles -- Alex Jones will host the American Scholars Symposium: 9/11 + The Neo-Con Agenda, the largest and most powerful conference ever exposing truth about what really happened on September 11 th from June 24-25 th at the Sheraton Los Angeles Downtown (711 South Hope Street). Jones and the conference’s speakers will hold a press conference on the first day of the event at 10:00 AM in the Sheraton Los Angeles Downtown ballroom.

Jones says, “The criminal elite in control of our government planned and executed the September 11 th attacks as a pretext to steal our freedoms and turn America into a police state! This conference will expose for once and all the truth about what really happened on September 11.â€￾

Americans are angry about the government lies and the cover-up about who was behind the attacks and how and why they happened. In March of this year, Actor Charlie Sheenappeared on The Alex Jones to add his voice to the many questioning the official version of the September 11 th attacks, calling for an independent investigation of the attacks and the circumstances surrounding them. (Listen to the entire interview here)

Jones’ interview of Sheen sparked a series of appearances by Jones on CNN Headline News’ Showbiz Tonight, which polled its audience, revealing that 83% of those who voted agreed with Charlie Sheen that the government covered up the real events of September 11th (44, 519 votes). (Click here for a full article and a screenshot of the poll)

The results of this poll came as no surprise, as previous polls reflect the American public’s waning belief of the official 9/11 story. In August, 2004, for example, a Zogby poll revealed that half of New Yorkers believe that US leaders had foreknowledge of the impending 9/11 attacks and “consciously failed to act.â€￾ In the same poll, two in three (66%) New Yorkers (and 56.2% overall) called for another full investigation of the "still unanswered questions" by Congress.

Despite the official story and cover-up, Americans now know that the Bush family is intimately involved in the business dealings of the Bin Laden family. Americans are aware of the irrefutable fact that Dick Cheney gained sole power over the nation’s emergency air defense only a few months before 9/11 and had NORAD stand down on that fateful day. Recently declassified documents like “Operation Northwoodsâ€￾ which illustrates US government plans to hijack passenger planes to create a false terrorist threat and incite war are waking people up to the fact that what happened on September 11 th is just another in a long line of false flag, US government-sponsored terror operations.

Over 1,000 tickets to the conference will be sold, as concerned Americans from across the country will converge in Los Angeles to decry the official 9/11 story and to glean the truth about the terrible attacks from respected speakers, including Documentary Filmmaker/Syndicated Radio Host Alex Jones, Hollywood movie producer Tommy Pallotta, former CIA Intelligence Advisor to Reagan and George HW Bush and founder of the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, Ray McGovern, former Director of Advanced Space Programs Development for the U.S. Air Force, Lt. Col Robert Bowman, founder of the Scholars for 9/11 Truth Professor James Fetzer, BYU Physics Professor Steven E. Jones, Filmmaker Dylan Avery, Activist, Historian, and international terrorism expert Webster G. Tarpley, and the Hero of 9/11 William Rodriguez who single handedly saved 15 people from the collapsing Twin Towers.

Father of the 9/11 truth movement Alex Jones was recently cited as being the William Jennings Bryant of the 9/11 bandâ€￾ in a recent New York Times article . He has produced 13 documentary films, including Martial Law, the definitive September 11 th film covering how the government has used terror as a pretext to metamorphose America into a Police State and providing an in-depth analysis of the collapse of Building 7.

His latest film, “Terror Storm,â€￾ which will debut at the American Scholars Symposium covers government-sponsored terrorism from September 11 to the London Bombings. Jones hosts a national radio show weekdays on over 80 FM and AM stations, and is a frequent guest on Coast to Coast AM. He has been featured as a prominent figure in the 9/11 Truth Movement in such publications as the New York Times, Vanity Fair, Popular Mechanics etc. and has recently appeared on MTV, CNN, CBC etc. He also appears in Warner Brother’s Independent’s “A Scanner Darkly,â€￾ (a film starring Keanu Reaves and featuring Wynona Ryder, Robert Downing, JR, & Woody Harleson). A portion of “A Scanner Darklyâ€￾ will screen at the American Scholars Symposium (this is prior to its general release July 7, 2006).

Please call Ryan at 512-291-5750 to schedule an interview with Jones prior to or during the conference. There will be a press conference for all media at the start of the Symposium at 10:00 AM, June 24 in the Sheraton Los Angeles Downtown Ballroom.

http://www.americanscholarssymposium.org/media/press_release_061606.htm

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

BYU Physics Prof Finds Thermate in WTC Physical Samples, Building Collapses an Inside Job

author: Jacob Hamblin

Based on chemical analysis of WTC structural steel residue, a Brigham Young University physics professor has identified the material as Thermate. Thermate is the controlled demolition explosive thermite plus sulfur. Sulfur cases the thermite to burn hotter, cutting steel quickly and leaving trails of yellow colored residue.


wtc steel with diagonal cut, thermate residue

Prof. Steven Jones, who conducted his PhD research at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center and post-doctoral research at Cornell University and the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility, has analyised materials from WTC and has detected the existence of thermate, used for "cutting" the steel support columns, as evident in the photo below.

Dr. Jones is a co-founder of Scholars for 911 Truth.

Dr. Jones in earlier work pointed to thermate as the likely explosive that brought down the WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 skyscrapers. But only recently was physical material analysed in the lab and the presense of thermate announced. The samples were provided Dr. Jones team from redundant sourses.

Both BYU and Prof. Jones have been offered additional grants if he would "change the direction" of his research. In addition, there have been threats made by an individual who "is taking action" to stop Steven Jones' research, specifically his experiment with thermites (aluminothermics), on the grounds his work may be helpful to "terrorists". Jones notes that much more detailed information on both thermite and thermate is readily available on the internet.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/341238.shtml

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

i looked this up and the article is full of words like "believes", "may have". "thinks". this is what i mean with this stuff - somebody throws something out there that's different and off it goes like a wildfire stated as fact. for every person who says yes, there is another that says no. i am asking HOW.if this was an inside demolition job, how were the explosives planted and how were the structures prepped without anybody noticing anything? why aren't there any articles from people who work in the building demolition industry who could detail what would be involved? this seems more of "the rooster crows, then the sun rises; therefore the rooster's crowing causes the sun to rise" thinking.

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My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

Found some interesting criticism of Dr. Jones' theories here: http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=42548

I'd have to admit that I lack the knowledge to critique his theories myself, but it appears that the presence of sulfur in itself doesn't necessarily indicate that thermate was used.

Another thing I've noticed is that Jones' theories were never peer reviewed in any serious scientific publication for structural engineering, just some 'political science' publication. My point remains that his theories need to be judged by experts in the field, people who can really judge whether his claims have any merit.

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"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. You can never capture it again." -- Eric Dolphy

http://www.frappr.com/frankzappaforum - FZ Forum World Map

so where are all the people who support this? thousands of people surely had to have seen it both as commuters and gawkers. so far the only people who say its made up come from the conspiricy community and their supporters.

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My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

In one of these documentaries (loose change or in plane sight), there are reports of whole floors being evacuated with a security excuse (electric check or whatever), during night shifts in the weeks prior to 911.

Don't forget Oklahoma, where they blame the man in the truck, but there were other bombs inside the building...

The many reports on tv that morning of huge explosions must not be overlooked. They didn't re-broadcast it again, but you can see it in those documentaries. You can also check it out here:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_firefighters.html

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein