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I have spent my life on self education but i really wish I would have gone to college or even finished high school for that matter,

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There's a quote from the Patrick White novel Solid Mandala and I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember it exactly. This is from one of the brothers who didn't like school: "I've forgotten everything I was ever taught but I remember everything I ever learned". This is a very clever and amusing statement but you can learn things in school. There are good teachers and they can save you a lot of time but the ultimate goal for anyone I believe is to become a self sufficient learner. It doesn't happen overnight. And, unfortunately, those little pieces of paper called qualifications are quite valuable and non transferrable.

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

Cigarettes are food.

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Free at last, free at last, great googleymoogley I am free at last!!!

[quote author=FROWNLAND link=board=quotes;num=1035310457;start=90#97 date=10/26/05 at 20:36:23]When he told himself that he would start smoking ciggers.  :'([/quote]<br><br>Gee, wasn't that around 8 years old?:P<br>

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What can you do that's fantastic?

time will stand still because of nostalgia

[quote author=Mr_Green_Genes link=board=quotes;num=1035310457;start=0#12 date=11/03/02 at 07:27:42]Well, despite the fact that often FZ's commentaries had very opposite points of view from of mine, he was very articulated "in theory making". <br><br>I don't belive in the "Promisuos" Rap. I think he was roundly wrong in stating that AIDS was a  government planned disease.[/quote]<br><br><br>I don't know what I've meant by the first sentence. I don't think it is true anymore...<br><br>I don't know what to think about the green monkey/cia theory anymore. Everything is quite possible today.<br><br><br>I would say the most stupid thing he ever said is the <br><br>"For me cigarretes is food", stating that he didn't think it was a drug (DHBIM video)... Seem's to me it have costed his life...

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

[quote author=Mr_Green_Genes link=board=quotes;num=1035310457;start=105#105 date=01/15/06 at 05:06:05]<br><br><br>I don't know what I've meant by the first sentence. I don't think it is true anymore...<br><br>I don't know what to think about the green monkey/cia theory anymore. Everything is quite possible today.<br><br><br>I would say the most stupid thing he ever said is the <br><br>"For me cigarretes is food", stating that he didn't think it was a drug (DHBIM video)... Seem's to me it have costed his life...[/quote]<br>[hr]http://www.mindfully.org/Health/2006/AIDS-Medical-Corruption1mar06.htm<br>Forget the "ciggs as food" remark and pick up a copy of this month's (March) HARPER'S magazine. Some things just keep cropping up again and again 20 years later and for some very frighteningly valid reasons. Author: Celia Farber. <br><br>(And, separately, there's a very poignent case made for the impeachment of G. W. Bush. Author: Lewis H. Lapham)<br><br>--Batchain

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Holy Toledo, that's terrifying!  :o

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Dung work for Yoda, dung, dung.

[quote author=Anthony link=board=quotes;num=1035310457;start=105#107 date=03/23/06 at 18:41:22]Holy Toledo, that's terrifying!  :o[/quote]Isn't it? At the very least terrifying and maybe worse in ways too terrifying to comprehend. FZ knew that something was just very wrong with the picture but still wasn't able to get a clear picture of just what was going on and the power struggles that happened which went almost completely unreported and then narrowed down even further to nearly nothing at all.<br><br>--Batchain

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I think he was a little harsh on women at times...like the comment he made during one of the better sounding 84 shows...I think it was a comment on the women's movement...I think it was all in fun but sometimes when I listen to it it sounds kind of harsh.

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Bobby

[quote author=BatchainPartIV link=board=quotes;num=1035310457;start=105#108 date=03/23/06 at 20:15:45]<br>Isn't it? At the very least terrifying and maybe worse in ways too terrifying to comprehend. FZ knew that something was just very wrong with the picture but still wasn't able to get a clear picture of just what was going on and the power struggles that happened which went almost completely unreported and then narrowed down even further to nearly nothing at all.<br><br>--Batchain[/quote]<br><br>I'm surprised there haven't been riots in your neck of the woods. Seriously, if this stuff hit the front page, there'd be a freaking heatwave from everyone's blood boiling. Unless Americans really are that desensitized.<br>

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Dung work for Yoda, dung, dung.

[quote author=Anthony link=board=quotes;num=1035310457;start=105#111 date=03/23/06 at 21:07:48]<br><br>I'm surprised there haven't been riots in your neck of the woods. Seriously, if this stuff hit the front page, there'd be a freaking heatwave from everyone's blood boiling. Unless Americans really are that desensitized.<br>[/quote]Yes, we are. But Americans are not alone in that, it's international and "programmed" is a far more accurate term for it. In US$$$ ? I don't know how anyone could put an accurate figure of international investment on it by now.<br><br>And it's no "tin foil head" pile of wild conspiratorial speculation, it's been right under our noses for over 20 years. "But only wild-eyed, paranoid conspiracy theorists would even entertain the idea for a microsecond!" Yeah, sure. How come it's not news to me? Well, I don't have a few hundred billion dollars on hand to fund anyone who would challenge it. Lots of silenced voices here, the UK, Europe. Try South African Prez Thabo Mbeki! He's all but had his jaw wired shut for being dead serious about challenging dogma and Nelson Mandela (!) was instrumental in seeing to that. There was some leakage in the '80s that's nearly dried up today. Interested? Try, http://www.virusmyth.net That thing just sits there as a repository of information and who even knows it's been there for just about 15 years?<br><br>--Bat

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[quote author=Anthony link=board=quotes;num=1035310457;start=105#111 date=03/23/06 at 21:07:48]<br><br>I'm surprised there haven't been riots in your neck of the woods. Seriously, if this stuff hit the front page, there'd be a freaking heatwave from everyone's blood boiling. Unless Americans really are that desensitized.<br>[/quote]Yes, we are. But Americans are not alone in that, it's international and "programmed" is a far more accurate term for it. In US$$$ ? I don't know how anyone could put an accurate figure of international investment on it by now.<br><br>And it's no "tin foil head" pile of wild conspiratorial speculation, it's been right under our noses for over 20 years. "But only wild-eyed, paranoid conspiracy theorists would even entertain the idea for a microsecond!" Yeah, sure. How come it's not news to me? Well, I don't have a few hundred billion dollars on hand to fund anyone who would challenge it. Lots of silenced voices here, the UK, Europe. Try South African Prez Thabo Mbeki! He's all but had his jaw wired shut for being dead serious about challenging it and Nelson Mandela (!) was instrumental in seeing to that. There was some leakage in the '80s that's nearly dried up today. Interested? Try, http://www.virusmyth.net That thing just sits there as a repository of information and who even knows it's been there for just about 15 years?<br><br>--Bat

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I disagree with the premise that pot has 10x the amount of carcinogens that tobacco has.

I personally am allergic to tobacco smoke. I recently moved out of an apartment because the the bulding was falling apart and the smoke from the chain smoker living below me was coming thru into mine. I was choking, coughing, sick for a week. I guess it was from the cyanide and formaldihyde (that's right folks, the same shit used in the gas chamber) that is in second hand tobacco smoke. (This has indeed been proven).

On the other hand I have smoke pot every day for 35 years and not one problem. No memory loss, no DUI stops, no loss of sexual desire, no smelly clothing and no cancer. In fact, THERE HAS NOT BEEN 1 DOCUMENTED CASE EVER SUGGESTING ANY ONE PERSON CONTRACTED CANCER FROM MARIJUANA OR DIED FROM USING IT.

Studies done to prove otherwise are unreliable because the pot smokers being tested were often also tobacco smokers.

And so the moral of the story is this: Frank did say some stupid things in his life. And his take on tobacco was just that: plain stupid. Now he's dead. Do the math: Tobacco=death. Pot = happiness.

TIME TO MAKE POT LEGAL, MAKE ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO ILLEGAL AND WE WILL ALL BE BETTER OFF!!

That's how I felt until I learnt pot can cause schizophrenia.
I know a few people who suffer from this disease, including close family members. It has caused a lot of pain on them, and on their close relations.
Schizophrenia is NOT thinking you're two people. It's a brain disorder that causes psychosis, delusions, poverty of speech, hallucinations, inappropriate or nonpresent emotion, lack of motivation. Schizophrenia has not been cured yet, usually medication is anti-psychotic.

Schizophrenia is horrible. It is a serious handicap, there's no remedy for it. You don't usually die directly of it, it's a matter of learning to live with being an outcast in the cases around me.
Let's not make pot legal. Seriously. There's enough schizophrenics already.

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There's a major flaw in this argument, in that you don't have the clone of yourself that didn't smoke pot at all during that 35 years to compare with.

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

Yeah, my grandpa smoked a cuban cigar every day until he was 90, and he never got cancer either. Let's be realistic here, whether you're inhaling tobacco smoke, pot, chimney smoke or automobile fumes, I really doubt inhaling fumes of any kind is very healthy.

I've read that article about pot increasing the odds at schizophrenia as well, but I think it increases the odds from 0,001% to 0,002 or another pretty neglegible figure. In general, I am pro-legalization. I don't smoke pot anymore (used to be a heavy toker in high school, though...), but I don't think it's really harmful when used moderately. Or at least, not more harmful than alcohol.

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"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. You can never capture it again." -- Eric Dolphy

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No, Bonny, pot can't induce schizophrenia at all but since the onset of schizophrenia tends to occur between the ages of 17 to 24 it's very likely that schizophrenics are already drawn to pot smoking, not to mention other illegal street drugs and favor them over anti-psychotic medication which many if not most have no use for.
Well, the "side effects" of anti-psychotic medications can be very unpleasant and schizophrenics are, well, "crazy", not stupid so they know that what they ought to be taking usually causes very annoying things to happen and try to avoid taking them.

--Bat

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Do too. George Bush. No sex scandels, but DUI, memory loss and America thinks he does too stink.

No, bugler, what you're seeing and feeling are the results of the drop in tobacco use making it far more perceptible when someone does use it. There's no math equation to do here and it can't even possibly be concluded that a non-tobacco-smoking Frank Zappa would never have developed prostate cancer.
In fact, speaking of the toxins in any kind of inhaled smoke, the only outstandingly stupid of the rotating "Surgeon General's Warnings" on cigarette packs has always been, "Cigarette Smoke Contains Carbon Monoxide". Yes, it does. But go outside, no matter where you live, take a normally deep breath and you are inhaling carbon monoxide in some measure. That's not the same as locking youself in a garage and inhaling lethal amounts of carbon monoxide -- but you are still inhaling some amount! Certainly it's higher levels in industrial areas than far out in the sticks somewhere - but neither contains enough to kill you as does a closed-in garage where it is concentrated enough to do so.
Well, sorry, but "harmless pot smoke" isn't something anyone cares to try proving even if the study controls eliminated all tobacco and alcohol as co-factors, not even scientists who smoke it regularly!

--Batchain

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Good point Batchain regarding the drop in tobacco use.........

And I applaud your clarification about schitzophrenia.

Howeverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..........

The decrease in tobacco smoking is a direct result of the indisputable fact that tobacco use kills MOST PEOPLE EVENTUALLY. Killed my mom at 55 and grandpa had one of the 1st laryngectomies ever back in the 60's due to tobacco smoking. (He quit at age 61 and lived to be 94 and got Parkinson's).

Lets not forget that tobacco was widely accepted in the 60's and while smokers were killing themeslves with there own cigs, they were also most likely breathing in 2nd hand smoke from all of thier friends smoke.

There are no facts to substantiate that this is the case with pot. NONE. NADA. ZILCH. I research this topic regularly and as soon as there is substantial prrof, I'll quit. But by then, Parkinson's may have set in.

There's still something odd that people somehow still believe which is physically impossible: Cigg smokers only get primary, 1st hand smoke and non-smokes only get secondary, 2nd hand smoke. But it's not possible for the smoker to avoid "second hand smoke" because "second hand smoke" has to be at it's most concentrated levels in the immediate environment of the smoker. As illogical as this is and so many other things are somehow people just naturally seem to miss seeing the most obvious things!

If you get snarled at sarcastically with the snide comment, "Oh, what a remarkable grasp of the obvious you have!", just say, "Thank you! Not many do!"

--Batchain

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I would only say that common sense would dictate that 1st hand smokers inhale their own 2nd hand smoke, which doubles the dose of cyanide and formaldihyde and the stats support this. More 1st hand smokers die of cancer than 2nd hand smokers, but 2nd hand smoke is enuf ta kill ya all by itself. Ask the chaps who operate the gas chamber.

Fuck man, where did my post go? Help!

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