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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:25 am 
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I'm not a fan of drum solos. No matter how good Humphrey, Thompson, Colaiuta or Wackerman are, I can't see the point of un-accompanied soloing on drumkit even in the case of Zappa drummers. At least Terry Bozzio has got interesting solo percussion concepts, but even his own drum solos back in 1970s were typical show-off.

FZ/JCB Drum Duet is moderately interesting though, because JCB at least held a backbeat the listener could latch onto whereas FZ (and later on, Art Tripp) would do all the weird stuff.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:20 am 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
I'm not a fan of drum solos. No matter how good Humphrey, Thompson, Colaiuta or Wackerman are, I can't see the point of un-accompanied soloing on drumkit even in the case of Zappa drummers. At least Terry Bozzio has got interesting solo percussion concepts, but even his own drum solos back in 1970s were typical show-off.

FZ/JCB Drum Duet is moderately interesting though, because JCB at least held a backbeat the listener could latch onto whereas FZ (and later on, Art Tripp) would do all the weird stuff.

I couldnt agree more. Drum solos for me are blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, Terry yea an exception there, but there is only ONE Terry Ted. Neil Perts solos are ok but blaaaaaaaah booooring. Iv been a drummer for almost 30 years. Yea I have done soloing before live no dought, but dam I will absolutly refuse to play one now. Not that I cant, I can do it ALL dam day but blaaaaaaah. I feel imo its like "Look at me people, see what I can do, its about me me me me me me!!" Let the music do the talking.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:34 am 
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I like drum solas when performed by tasty creative and techincally skilled drummers...

check this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5ZybMAt1M

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:55 am 
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Like a lot of teen-age boys, I used to get off on drum solos: YYZ by Neil Peart, Moby Dick by John Bonham, Toad by Ginger Baker, etc.... Nowadays I see em as self indulgent and mostly boring. Not to say that I won't enjoy a drum solo from time to time. I still consider "Percolations" by Pierre Moerlen's Gong to be a fantastic percussion composition. It starts out with a stately vibes/bells theme, kicks into a furious marimba duet, and ends with possibly my favorite drum solo of all time. I think it works because it's obviously composed, and not just a demonstration of skill. The whole 10 minutes is just percussion, and I never get tired of it.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:11 am 
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What would the world be without The Black Page :? :shock: :?

Now if we are talking about percussion compositions, what would be of us Zappa freaks without Ionization :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :? :? :? :? :?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:34 am 
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wheatgurm wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
I'm not a fan of drum solos. No matter how good Humphrey, Thompson, Colaiuta or Wackerman are, I can't see the point of un-accompanied soloing on drumkit even in the case of Zappa drummers. At least Terry Bozzio has got interesting solo percussion concepts, but even his own drum solos back in 1970s were typical show-off.

FZ/JCB Drum Duet is moderately interesting though, because JCB at least held a backbeat the listener could latch onto whereas FZ (and later on, Art Tripp) would do all the weird stuff.

I couldnt agree more. Drum solos for me are blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, Terry yea an exception there, but there is only ONE Terry Ted. Neil Perts solos are ok but blaaaaaaaah booooring. Iv been a drummer for almost 30 years. Yea I have done soloing before live no dought, but dam I will absolutly refuse to play one now. Not that I cant, I can do it ALL dam day but blaaaaaaah. I feel imo its like "Look at me people, see what I can do, its about me me me me me me!!" Let the music do the talking.


Well there is no accounting for taste.

Zeets -----What a cold minded outlook to just pile drum solos into a land of disinterest. For a drummer of 30 years to approach the idea of listening or playing a drum solo with litle to no interest is just mind boggling to me. I will admit that there are many drummers who just bring on the big yawn but I would say the same for a musician taking a solo on any instrument.

No matter how boring, spectacular or just an inspirational coposition a solo on any given instrument for me remains a time where I can appreciate some form of individual creativity from that particular musician as opposed to when he/she's just playing the chart data with their stamp on intonation. No matter what instrument he/she plays so no matter what the isntrument is I observe with my eyes and ears.

Some Drummmers are Boring
Some Bass Players are Boring
Some Guitar Players are Boring
Some Harmonica Players are Boring
Some Solo Violinists are Boring on and on and on.

Still whatever intrument any musician plays I look forward to the moment when that particilar individual gets the chance to whip it out.

The facts are many drummers are just boring and never learn composition skills or deviating from a groove. Many drummers, when they take there solo use the same old techniques sounding no differnet than a Spinal Tape Guitar Solo.


I happen to like percussive solos and structured rythem. Just because in the traditional sense there are not 12 tone scale melody & chord structures in drum solos does not in any way deviate from my interest.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:48 am 
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drum solos are awesome. what's next, bass solos sent to the flames??


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:52 am 
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feetlightup wrote:
Moby Dick by John Bonham,


Some itiot behind me at ZPZ at the Checrolet theater show in CT kept saying Moby Dick throughout The Black Page. Some Rock & Roll fans really have no idea about how to approach listening to a drum solo. Moby Dick, Sounds like Moby Dick, Moby Dick. Moby Dick, Sounds like Moby Dick, Moby Dick. This guy had no clue.


Many Rock & Rollers would pick this drummer if they were going to start a band with there choice of drummer. Me I personaly always viewed him as a Joe's Garage type drummer. Not in the Vinnie senese of playing 4 different time signatures on each limb but more that the John Bonham sound reminds me like it's comming from a garage in my neighborhood. I am not sayign he was a bad drummer juts nothign special for me.

Many of these Rock & Roller Drum solos from major groups was setting a messsage for me at any age but it was still there moment to show there talents. Most of the time I was saying if Varese was here he'd teach these guys a lesson that coudl make this a bit more interesting.

At one point drummers were using Cow Bells and Gongs as some deviation to a standard kit. After hearing Varese I was wondering where the Siren and Concert Bass Drums were. Well Cow Blls and Gongs turned into Neal Pert Circular Psuedo Wagon Train Formation Kits and while Neal is a very talented drummer I have heard Vinnie do far more interesting solos with 10 times less the percussive instrumentation. Now Bozzio is really a different animal all together. I've seen quite a few Bozzio accoustic drum solo performances and was never bored for a second.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:24 pm 
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I always thought drum solos were supposed to be for the drummer to show off a little. What's wrong with that? Always a crowd pleaser at concerts.
There's not enough drum solos these days. :(


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:26 pm 
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Their appeal to the crowd has always eluded me on some reason.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:40 pm 
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What is the best drum sola in the Zappa catalogue, iyo?

Maybe the one in the Piquantique's Farther O'Blivion by Ralph H. The drum solas in YCDTOSA vol II are also terrific, although the bass drum issue might bother some...

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Last edited by Mr_Green_Genes on Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:42 pm 
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The Grateful Dead - actually Bill Kreutzmann and Mickey Hart - did a lot of great solos in the Drums and Space section of Dead's concert. This stuff isn't boring at all. Wackerman's solo in Let's Move To Cleveland on DYBIM is great, too.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:58 pm 
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I don't like improvised drum solos, simply because that's not what the instrument is supposed to do. same thing with bass solos.

i do like composed percussion peices, though, i'm a big edgard varese fan.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:59 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Some Drummmers are Boring
Some Bass Players are Boring
Some Guitar Players are Boring
Some Harmonica Players are Boring
Some Solo Violinists are Boring on and on and on.


This is GOOD. Oh, how I wish you would have stopped after that. But, once again, Trendy posts a cup of the obvious with a gallon of idiocy.

Trendmonger wrote:
Some Rock & Roll fans really have no idea about how to approach listening to a drum solo. Moby Dick, Sounds like Moby Dick, Moby Dick. Moby Dick, Sounds like Moby Dick, Moby Dick. This guy had no clue.


If I ever saw you at a show I would buy the seat behind you at ridiculous financial loss and whisper Moby Dick throughout the performance, up to and including getting myself thrown out the venue. I DARE YOU to make a convincing argument showing that you are able to analyze the differences between The Black Page and Moby Dick displaying why someone should not choose Moby Dick as a favorite, indeed have it as a template of their preferences. I'm not a drummer, so I'll admit right away that my analyses would be weak. What would you reccommend... hmmmm.... better mics? hahahaha
Oh, and then after that you can start Trendy's Online SuperFan Listening Course. Clearly you consider yourself to have a clue of "how to approach listening". Let's hear it! hahahaha... First buy a Bose system...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:01 pm 
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I can live just fine without most drum solos


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:17 pm 
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The more the merrier.

Like all solos, they are much better to me as improvised events than as collages of prefabricated musical phrases.

vcf

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:35 pm 
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Fido3 wrote:
I always thought drum solos were supposed to be for the drummer to show off a little. What's wrong with that? Always a crowd pleaser at concerts.


This I agree with. Drum solos can actually be quite exciting when you're there watching them in person. They just don't translate well to the recording of the event (even videos, sad to say). And as for drum solos recorded in the STUDIO, well, that's a slippery slope indeed. The Grand Vizier's Garden Party, anyone?

(note: I love Pink Floyd and Ummagumma in particular, so no slight intended to Nicky Mason. But c'mon...)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:57 pm 
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I guess I dont like em much. Simon Phillips occasionally made a solo work well with polyrhythms but overall I need to watch a solo or it's poot to me. It's more of a visual thing.

If you have something cool in the context of the music I can dig it but that sort of takes away the "solo" defintiion eh. haha.


You can almost call a guitar solo a drum solo cant you? Except it's not a drum but an odd percussive instrument in some sense. Frank for the win then!!


Last edited by Phlakaton on Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:57 pm 
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Ya know what's beter than a drum solo?

A drum duel! :twisted:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:59 pm 
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Joe Mama wrote:
I don't like improvised drum solos, simply because that's not what the instrument is supposed to do. same thing with bass solos.


who are you to say what an instrument is suppose to do?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:07 pm 
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Raoul Duke wrote:
Joe Mama wrote:
I don't like improvised drum solos, simply because that's not what the instrument is supposed to do. same thing with bass solos.


who are you to say what an instrument is suppose to do?


Ya... dont take any guff off this swine!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:13 pm 
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The Mule - Made In Japan - "Ian Paice on the drums, yes!"


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:24 pm 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
I like drum solas when performed by tasty creative and techincally skilled drummers...

check this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5ZybMAt1M


whoever tuned that guys kit needs to be shot in face. awful!!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:26 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
The Mule - Made In Japan - "Ian Paice on the drums, yes!"


One of my all time favs!! not one bit boring.

TNUC - Don Brewer is also another NOT boring solo.

Moby Dick? PIECE OF SHIT!! Stop already you fat drunk! It's been 25 minutes.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:27 pm 
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feetlightup wrote:
Fido3 wrote:
I always thought drum solos were supposed to be for the drummer to show off a little. What's wrong with that? Always a crowd pleaser at concerts.


This I agree with. Drum solos can actually be quite exciting when you're there watching them in person. They just don't translate well to the recording of the event (even videos, sad to say). And as for drum solos recorded in the STUDIO, well, that's a slippery slope indeed. The Grand Vizier's Garden Party, anyone?

(note: I love Pink Floyd and Ummagumma in particular, so no slight intended to Nicky Mason. But c'mon...)


My favorite kind of drummers have always been those who are also very good composers and/or skilled on some other instrument as well. If Pink Floyd had a multi-instrumental drummer, I bet the drummer's solo stuff on Ummagumma would have been less one-dimensional.

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