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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:24 am 
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pedro2 wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Unions....Love 'em or hate 'em....if it wasn't for Unions, everybody would be working for free with no benefits and pensions would be destroyed.




By that reasoning , more of the population would be union workers , Space.

How do you justify that thinking ??

As a former shop steward , unions are a thing of the past. Most employers know that to keep good people they have to give a good wage along with good benes , but with the unions political hold , along with insurance companies , there's not much the private employeer can offer.

Seems everybody wants equality but the unions just want to be a little more equal than everybody else in the private sector. :roll:



If it wasn't for the assault against unions over the last 30 years by a certain side of the government, America's economy would be booming instead of collapsing. The situations in Wisconsin and Ohio only guarantee that if the anti-union crowd get their way, more Chinese people will be doing jobs that were once done by American's.

I just changed the brakes on my car yesterday and guess what, the rotors were made in China, the brake pads were made in Mexico, and the only part made in America were the pins. WTF? These parts used to be made by Americans in union jobs done for Americans. Now I have to pay higher prices for manufactured obsolescence courtesy of China and Mexico, so that the CEO's make huge profits while their sweatshop slave laborers make a bowl of rice? Thanks to union destroying politicians? That sux bigtime.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:54 am 
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ReetyAwrighty wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Unions Are Good for the American Economy

The essence of what labor unions do—give workers a stronger voice so that they can get a fair share of the economic growth they help create—is and has always been important to making the economy work for all Americans. And unions only become more important as the economy worsens.

One of the primarily reasons why our current recession endures is that workers do not have the purchasing power they need to drive our economy. Even when times were relatively good, workers were getting squeezed. Income for the median working age household fell by about $2,000 between 2000 and 2007, and it could fall even further as the economy continues to decline. Consumer activity accounts for roughly 70 percent of our nation’s economy, and for a while workers were able to use debt to sustain their consumption. Yet debt-driven consumption is not sustainable, as we are plainly seeing.

What is sustainable is an economy where workers are adequately rewarded and have the income they need to purchase goods. This is where unions come in.

Unions paved the way to the middle class for millions of American workers and pioneered benefits such as paid health care and pensions along the way. Even today, union workers earn significantly more on average than their non-union counterparts, and union employers are more likely to provide benefits. And non-union workers—particularly in highly unionized industries—receive financial benefits from employers who increase wages to match what unions would win in order to avoid unionization.

Unfortunately, declining unionization rates mean that workers are less likely to receive good wages and be rewarded for their increases in productivity. The Employee Free Choice Act, which is likely to be one of the most important issues debated by the 111th Congress, holds the promise of boosting unionization rates and improving millions of Americans’ economic standing and workplace conditions.



Unions help workers achieve higher wages
Union members in the United States earn significantly more than non-union workers. Over the four-year period between 2004 and 2007, unionized workers’ wages were on average 11.3 percent higher than non-union workers with similar characteristics. That means that, all else equal, American workers that join a union will earn 11.3 percent more—or $2.26 more per hour in 2008 dollars—than their otherwise identical non-union counterparts.

Yet union coverage rates have been declining for several decades. In 1983, 23.3 percent of American workers were either members of a union or represented by a union at their workplace. By 2008, that portion declined to 13.7 percent.


American workers’ wage growth lags as productivity increases
Workers helped the economy grow during this time period by becoming ever more productive, but they received only a small share of the new wealth they helped create. Throughout the middle part of the 20th century—a period when unions were stronger—American workers generated economic growth by increasing their productivity, and they were rewarded with higher wages. But this link between greater productivity and higher wages has broken down.

Prior to the 1980s, productivity gains and workers’ wages moved in tandem: as workers produced more per hour, they saw a commensurate increase in their earnings. Yet wages and productivity growth have decoupled since the late 1970s. Looking from 1980 to 2008, nationwide worker productivity grew by 75.0 percent, while workers’ inflation-adjusted average wages increased by only 22.6 percent, which means that workers were compensated for only 30.2 percent of their productivity gains.

The cost of benefits—especially health insurance—has increased over time and now accounts for a greater share of total compensation than in the past, but this increase is nowhere near enough to account for the discrepancy between wage and productiv¬ity growth. For example, according to analysis by the Center for Economic and Policy Research, between 1973 and 2006 the share of labor compensation in the form of benefits rose from 12.6 percent to 19.5 percent.

If American workers were rewarded for 100 percent of their increases in labor productivity between 1980 and 2008—as they were during the middle part of the 20th century—average wages would be $28.53 per hour—42.7 percent higher than the average real wage in 2008.

Unionization rewards workers for productivity growth
Slow wage growth has squeezed the middle class and contributed to rising inequality. But increasing union coverage rates could likely reverse these trends as more Americans would benefit from the union wage premium and receive higher wages. If unionization rates were the same now as they were in 1983 and the current union wage premium remained constant, new union workers would earn an estimated $49.0 billion more in wages and salaries per year. If union coverage rates increased by just 5 percentage points over current levels, newly unionized workers would earn an estimated $25.5 billion more in wages and salaries per year. Non-union workers would also benefit as employers would likely raise wages to match what unions would win in order to avoid unionization.

Increased unionization would boost Americans’ annual wages
Union employers are also significantly more likely to provide benefits to their employees. Union workers nationwide are 28.2 percent more likely to be covered by employer-provided health insurance and 53.9 percent more likely to have employer-provided pensions compared to workers with similar characteristics who were not in unions.

Tell the GOP to go suck a big one



Thank you, Spacebrother. Truer words were never spoken. I would like to ask those who are anti - union if they can name EVEN ONE instance in history when workers were better off divided rather than united. In the US, unions were once much more powerful and had many more members, and this served as something of a counterbalance to the wealthy. Now that unions are weaker and have fewer members the wealthy are trying to impoverish the rest of us and they're doing a damn good job of it - there's nobody left to stand up to them. It's unbelievable how so many people can't see this.


No problem and anytime! 8)

You are exactly right ReetyAwrighty. The destruction of our unions is the worst kind of terrorism America has ever been subjected to. When Bush was president, it was like 450,000 9/11's happening every single month by the time he left office. That was the rate of jobs losses on his watch. Now The GOP leadership in Wisconsin and Ohio want to get back to those bad 'ol days, and for what? So CEO's can still sell us the same worthless manufactured obsolescence at the same inflated price without having to pay a sweatshop laborors in China or Mexico the same wages they used to pay Americans, without the benefits, without the pensions or the protections so many generations of Americans had sacrificed their blood for?

The Republicans are now showing us their ass. The Tea Party folks don't even realise that they've just sold themselves, and the rest of us out to the same people they call the "enemy". Dumbasses. The billionaire Koch brothers couldn't be happier with the results.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:59 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
I like the title, and solutions...

Only education can set people free...



Education is also under attack in America, courtesy of the Right. In fact, it's one of the place's that has been taking the worst cuts. Go figure. Keep 'em "Dumb All Over". How are the employment/education prospects in your neck of the woods looking these days? "I might be moving to Brazil soon".


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:38 am 
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Education, as all other main human institutions (economy, military power, health and religion, etc...) have long been dominated by cunning schemes, drawn from knowledge and beliefs hidden from mainstream, 'public-opinion' perception.

To be able to pull any kind of really efficient control over the masses, one has to dumb them down as hard as one can. Just check mainstream media today, the sheer emptiness of it. Funny to know that Uncle Frankie singed about that in 66-67!!!

It is a global, at least western, modus operandi for govts to screw education up. In the US and Canada you still have the excellency on the higher degree education, some of the best universities of the world. But even Europe, an island of culture and education, is starting to mine it as well. Even David Gilmour's son cared to throw the prince a tomato...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:09 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
If it wasn't for the assault against unions over the last 30 years by a certain side of the government, America's economy would be booming instead of collapsing. The situations in Wisconsin and Ohio only guarantee that if the anti-union crowd get their way, more Chinese people will be doing jobs that were once done by American's.


Yep.

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
I just changed the brakes on my car yesterday and guess what, the rotors were made in China, the brake pads were made in Mexico, and the only part made in America were the pins. WTF? These parts used to be made by Americans in union jobs done for Americans. Now I have to pay higher prices for manufactured obsolescence courtesy of China and Mexico, so that the CEO's make huge profits while their sweatshop slave laborers make a bowl of rice? Thanks to union destroying politicians? That sux bigtime.


Yep.


SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Education is also under attack in America, courtesy of the Right. In fact, it's one of the place's that has been taking the worst cuts. Go figure. Keep 'em "Dumb All Over".


Yep.

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
The destruction of our unions is the worst kind of terrorism America has ever been subjected to. When Bush was president, it was like 450,000 9/11's happening every single month by the time he left office. That was the rate of jobs losses on his watch. Now The GOP leadership in Wisconsin and Ohio want to get back to those bad 'ol days, and for what? So CEO's can still sell us the same worthless manufactured obsolescence at the same inflated price without having to pay a sweatshop laborors in China or Mexico the same wages they used to pay Americans, without the benefits, without the pensions or the protections so many generations of Americans had sacrificed their blood for?


I'd say it's hyperbole to equate union-busting with terrorism. I would say it's certainly more mercantile than laissez-faire capitalism. Y'know the shiny neo-corporatism that's typified by hostile takeovers, Massey Energyu, Goldman-Sachs, BP and so on. You're right on with the rest of that though.

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
The Republicans are now showing us their ass. The Tea Party folks don't even realise that they've just sold themselves, and the rest of us out to the same people they call the "enemy". Dumbasses. The billionaire Koch brothers couldn't be happier with the results.


Yep. Saw a bunch of signs this weekend saying the teabaggers should learn to spell.
First, it might be better if they learned some math. Cuz, y'know.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:25 am 
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punknaynowned wrote:
okay, you're gonna try and divert, that's fine.

Same factory, I worked a number of table saws for a week. Cut a bunch of parts for a week. I ran three tables then clean up at the end of the day. One of the saws did not have a brake -- against OSHA reg's. I spent half the first day arguing with the boss (not the employer, just a foreman) then looking for another saw. I didn't find one. I told him I won't use that saw and he said something like, 'Well, you better get your pen knife out cuz those 60,000 parts need to be cut." At one point he even said, "If you don't want to do it I can find somebody who will." I went ahead and did it but said they better fix it or find a saw with a brake. They didn't

So I did fine all week and long story short I split open the first two fingers on my right hand because that saw did not have a brake. I ran three radial saws. The one w/out the brake and one with and a finisher. At the end of each day I shut off the one without the brake first, knowing it would take longer to coast down and stop while I cleaned around the other saws that stopped immediately. It was the last day of this job, I finished the order and only had to clean. I cleaned the others and most of the floor and was coming up behind the saw without the brake with a long horsehair brush that I had cleaned the other tables with. I remember looking at the clock and it was eight minutes after I shut that off. I didn't see it but it was still coasting. I didn't even feel it. Went into shock almost immediately. They rushed me to the hospital, I got 30 stitches in the top of my right index and middle fingers. Doctor said I was lucky to still have them. The next day I went to the drugstore for painkillers and the pHararmacist had to call the company because I had no money to pay -- for blipping painkillers!!! They put the vice-pres of the company on who had been told the accident had happened on a faulty saw. He didn't want to pay for it. But they did.

The reason? There were too many people that knew that table saw was an accident waiting to happen. If OSHA - the FEDs - found out, the company could be sued or fined. A lot worse than 30 stitches and some painkillers. From a strict cost-benefit analysis, they got off easy and they knew it. I didn't have insurance. They didn't offer it. But they had a good worker. Did I sue or call OSHA? No, and as a result, I kept my job. So my question to you:

without the backstop of the FEDs, the threat of OSHA retaliation, would the company have paid for repair of my fingers?
Would someone else do the job if I didn't? Of course, probably for same or smaller wage. If a union was involved, it would have cost the company a lot more I bet. I can see how companies feel stuck in the middle between the FEDs on one side and unions on the other.
But without similar rights or implied protection provided as a backstop, will businesses always do the right thing?
No, if given the chance, they'll cut costs, workers be damned.

Forty hour workweek? Workman's comp? weekends? Time-and-a-half pay for overtime?

Thank the unions. And that's why we need 'em - or we'll have no rights or safety considerations in the workplace at all. Like most of the third world.
People don't question why businesses go overseas. Very often overseas there are no checks on business excess. Excess like stripping people of their dignity or depriving workers of a safe workplace.
Kill the unions! Third World here we come!!!
Thank you teaparty, may we have some more of that dehumanizing crap?
Step right up.



Talk about diverting, you guys are still confusing public sector unions with private. Private companies make money, public runs on private Taxes, get it, as for your lousy job go get another, as for education, go to the library, since when did the government do any good with education!!!! I still hear to many wanting from the gov. You guys are obviously lacking in work history. Union shops are killing our economy, all you guys can do is quote phony op ed's.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:46 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Education, as all other main human institutions (economy, military power, health and religion, etc...) have long been dominated by cunning schemes, drawn from knowledge and beliefs hidden from mainstream, 'public-opinion' perception.


when the lie's so big,,,

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
To be able to pull any kind of really efficient control over the masses, one has to dumb them down as hard as one can. Just check mainstream media today, the sheer emptiness of it. Funny to know that Uncle Frankie singed about that in 66-67!!!


Those in the media would say, 'That's what they want! That's what sells the most!' That may be true, but when did we commonly agree that what sells the most is any good or have any value? Nobody cares anymore about that, they've seen it too many times in some ad so the words no longer have value. In fact, if you ask people the simplest question for a consumer to answer, 'Why do you like that?', it usually stumps 'em. 'I just like it'. It makes them awkward to have to explain why they like something so much. What they want is what is new, or thought to be new. Our children are like that now. People are being trained to spend more and more $$ on things they don't even know if they'll like, let alone if it's any good for them.

Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
It is a global, at least western, modus operandi for govts to screw education up..


this is a different question I think. I'll think on it today. Maybe it might be more what happens over stretches of time when a stand on an issue is made and then must be adhered to because of state concerns about losing face or 'credibility' even in the face of contrary evidence, like wikileaks,... but I'll look at this. Thanks GG!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:28 am 
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It almost makes no differnce what one's writing here, or does it?


Loosing the job, one's capability of sustaining family and all, is worse than terrorism (you know what has occured on 9/11? a lil revenge on capitalism what has a l r e a d y done the planet in the bin; who have been hit? on that day the fire brigade should have looked to real problems..)

care for the http://storyofstuff.com/ ?


and also so very true is anyone's limited horizon of merely guessing the amount of money what's taken away. No mathematician i'd wager can genuinely only trying that.


To the situation in general: what we need to learn is another approach to life, some kind of quality! and the ideas for it. See later at a fresh topic, till then, soupmen; ..and you precious friends.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:36 am 
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pedro2 wrote:
Punk , I feel for you , I really do , but those horror stories are everywhere. Union print shop I saw a guy's fingers mangled on a slitter / coalator and another one's arm almost ripped off WITH a regulation , union approved tee shirt , by a print roller.

I lost half my right thumb due to slipping into unit #6 of a CI print drum .. 12 feet in the air.
Reason I slipped ? The hydraulc unit was pissing oil at the rate of 5 gal an hour and maint. was too busy to fix it.

That shit happens all over , union or no union . Unions HAVE BROUGHT MANY BENEFITS TO THE WORKPLACE , but , at what cost ? To be able to control political decisions that affect us all ? To be able to outpace the majority of the population ecconomicaly ?

If , like 35 yrs ago , more people were employed by unions than the private sector , we might not see some of the disparity in our own country. But that's just part of the whole problem.

I have the feeling today that people will take what they can get .. shame this country took 500 steps back. :cry:


Thanx man. My fingers are fine. I was damn lucky. On the job accidents are far too common even with all the safeguards and protections in place. You raise great questions and your experience is rich.
I think you may be right that if say, 30-35 years ago there were more union people and other kinds of organizations like them but without their adverse effects, things may have gone a different direction. I look at history of that time as when somehow, big corporations took several steps forward in their reach, grasp and hold on several different aspects of culture. Not just in the market per se. It was reflected in art somewhat at the time I think (or can be shown) but a history of that 'takeover' hasn't been written. Much of it seems to involve energy acquisition and the arms race/ defense industry build-up. But I don't know.
You ask, 'At what cost?' have the unions grown. I don't even know where to start or think I know. But,

I tend to think that Freedom To and Freedom From is maintained differently for people and organizations.
Freedom To do stuff and Freedom From others doing stuff to you are very different but bound together in that special word. Organizations or companies can be more free to do stuff to others than individuals can. The difference nowadays is often just money. If I live as an individual in Pennsylvania or New York and I turn on my tap to get some water for tea and nothing but this awful smell comes out ... and then put a lighter near it and this jet of fire blows out ... not only is something very wrong, but someone, actually has taken their freedom to mean more than mine. You've heard of this right? Energy companies, backed by Hjaliburton, went fracturing geologic strata in the N.E. to collapse and force out trapped reserves of gas. They also pumped a bunch of chemicals in the ground to aid in this process which of course went into the water table. As well as the gas. They just started this in the last decade. But what a horror! Tons of people sick and can't move, houses getting torched -- nightmare situation. People try to sue and nobody can get any justice somethin to do with tort reform and Dick Cheney's energy commission that no one has to talk about, by law. ACLU sued to get a list of people who were in those secret meetings. That's all they got, a list, and that took years.
But I don't want to get into a left-right thing.
My point is that these companies who did the frakking (that's what they call the geologic collapsing process) felt they had the Freedom To do this. They took precautions, they did some research, they talked to their buddies with heft and they told everybody just don't talk about it. We need energy. Don't wanna make the tree huggers cry, so we won't tell 'em.
Where does a companies Freedom To do something interfere with my Freedom From mass - geologic - actions that make people sick?
And if I get sick, or today - cuz we get another story every day - if pfizer's drugz gives my kids seizures,

WHY CAN'T I FIND JUSTICE? Why can't I be Free From invasive practices of organizations that hurt me and my countrymen?

Isn't the answer money, if government is no longer allowed to fix it or can't afford to?
Someone might say we can't legislate against greed or that people will just 'take what they can get'.

I think we can do better. I think we can come up with organizations that don't need to harm another's Freedom or health or bargaining rights or pensions or whatever in order to 'get ahead'. And we better be quick about it before our race to the almighty $ snuffs the whole race. Just sayin'

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:57 am 
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Exploiting, destroying, polluting the only nest there is? the latest craze here on the Old Continent, like before tsotsa-tsola, afternoon talk-shows, shooting film with nothing else all the time etc. Man is an unfathomable, egoistic, none-thinking monster. You wouldn't believe it all they do, think, are capable of, i have the infos of!!! and am without any hope whatsoever that any thing can change them. ...even if there would be time left. No science can help here anymore, and aliens forbid of inhumans going out there, would certainly be the end of creation. Once we were the best, i like to think.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:22 am 
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punknaynowned wrote:
pedro2 wrote:
Punk , I feel for you , I really do , but those horror stories are everywhere. Union print shop I saw a guy's fingers mangled on a slitter / coalator and another one's arm almost ripped off WITH a regulation , union approved tee shirt , by a print roller.

I lost half my right thumb due to slipping into unit #6 of a CI print drum .. 12 feet in the air.
Reason I slipped ? The hydraulc unit was pissing oil at the rate of 5 gal an hour and maint. was too busy to fix it.

That shit happens all over , union or no union . Unions HAVE BROUGHT MANY BENEFITS TO THE WORKPLACE , but , at what cost ? To be able to control political decisions that affect us all ? To be able to outpace the majority of the population ecconomicaly ?

If , like 35 yrs ago , more people were employed by unions than the private sector , we might not see some of the disparity in our own country. But that's just part of the whole problem.

I have the feeling today that people will take what they can get .. shame this country took 500 steps back. :cry:


Thanx man. My fingers are fine. I was damn lucky. On the job accidents are far too common even with all the safeguards and protections in place. You raise great questions and your experience is rich.
I think you may be right that if say, 30-35 years ago there were more union people and other kinds of organizations like them but without their adverse effects, things may have gone a different direction. I look at history of that time as when somehow, big corporations took several steps forward in their reach, grasp and hold on several different aspects of culture. Not just in the market per se. It was reflected in art somewhat at the time I think (or can be shown) but a history of that 'takeover' hasn't been written. Much of it seems to involve energy acquisition and the arms race/ defense industry build-up. But I don't know.
You ask, 'At what cost?' have the unions grown. I don't even know where to start or think I know. But,

I tend to think that Freedom To and Freedom From is maintained differently for people and organizations.
Freedom To do stuff and Freedom From others doing stuff to you are very different but bound together in that special word. Organizations or companies can be more free to do stuff to others than individuals can. The difference nowadays is often just money. If I live as an individual in Pennsylvania or New York and I turn on my tap to get some water for tea and nothing but this awful smell comes out ... and then put a lighter near it and this jet of fire blows out ... not only is something very wrong, but someone, actually has taken their freedom to mean more than mine. You've heard of this right? Energy companies, backed by Hjaliburton, went fracturing geologic strata in the N.E. to collapse and force out trapped reserves of gas. They also pumped a bunch of chemicals in the ground to aid in this process which of course went into the water table. As well as the gas. They just started this in the last decade. But what a horror! Tons of people sick and can't move, houses getting torched -- nightmare situation. People try to sue and nobody can get any justice somethin to do with tort reform and Dick Cheney's energy commission that no one has to talk about, by law. ACLU sued to get a list of people who were in those secret meetings. That's all they got, a list, and that took years.
But I don't want to get into a left-right thing.
My point is that these companies who did the frakking (that's what they call the geologic collapsing process) felt they had the Freedom To do this. They took precautions, they did some research, they talked to their buddies with heft and they told everybody just don't talk about it. We need energy. Don't wanna make the tree huggers cry, so we won't tell 'em.
Where does a companies Freedom To do something interfere with my Freedom From mass - geologic - actions that make people sick?
And if I get sick, or today - cuz we get another story every day - if pfizer's drugz gives my kids seizures,

WHY CAN'T I FIND JUSTICE? Why can't I be Free From invasive practices of organizations that hurt me and my countrymen?

Isn't the answer money, if government is no longer allowed to fix it or can't afford to?
Someone might say we can't legislate against greed or that people will just 'take what they can get'.

I think we can do better. I think we can come up with organizations that don't need to harm another's Freedom or health or bargaining rights or pensions or whatever in order to 'get ahead'. And we better be quick about it before our race to the almighty $ snuffs the whole race. Just sayin'



So what is it that YOU are doing to make your life better, other than whinning and hoping the gov. baby sits you.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:32 am 
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have you maybe forgotten that is was the gov among others that washed the toddler out of the tub with the water? are you sitting comfortably? tomorrow some nice fellow citizen comes and gets that couch out, for the fun of it.

Lol, ignor'em

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:53 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
So what is it that YOU are doing to make your life better, other than whinning and hoping the gov. baby sits you.


I quite like the idea of "whinning"
but do you mean...
1) Drinking a lot of good wine?
2) Achieving first place?
3) Make noises like a horse?
4) Complaining bitterly in a high pitched voice?

I also like the idea of a "government baby" sitting on one. At least it would be lighter than a 30 stone daddy.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:04 am 
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methinks we have our chimp Image....whahhha, l'lllll

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ya wa? the mewzick's pretty spectacular, geez. ..where's me chic cap swaggering to? rather mad. If only others would hark. Next phing on the wish-list gonna be a web-capable mobile iets, an hify-amp powered by solar-panels and propellers on that drat hat.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:32 pm 
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punknaynowned wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
If it wasn't for the assault against unions over the last 30 years by a certain side of the government, America's economy would be booming instead of collapsing. The situations in Wisconsin and Ohio only guarantee that if the anti-union crowd get their way, more Chinese people will be doing jobs that were once done by American's.


Yep.

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
I just changed the brakes on my car yesterday and guess what, the rotors were made in China, the brake pads were made in Mexico, and the only part made in America were the pins. WTF? These parts used to be made by Americans in union jobs done for Americans. Now I have to pay higher prices for manufactured obsolescence courtesy of China and Mexico, so that the CEO's make huge profits while their sweatshop slave laborers make a bowl of rice? Thanks to union destroying politicians? That sux bigtime.


Yep.


SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Education is also under attack in America, courtesy of the Right. In fact, it's one of the place's that has been taking the worst cuts. Go figure. Keep 'em "Dumb All Over".


Yep.

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
The destruction of our unions is the worst kind of terrorism America has ever been subjected to. When Bush was president, it was like 450,000 9/11's happening every single month by the time he left office. That was the rate of jobs losses on his watch. Now The GOP leadership in Wisconsin and Ohio want to get back to those bad 'ol days, and for what? So CEO's can still sell us the same worthless manufactured obsolescence at the same inflated price without having to pay a sweatshop laborors in China or Mexico the same wages they used to pay Americans, without the benefits, without the pensions or the protections so many generations of Americans had sacrificed their blood for?


I'd say it's hyperbole to equate union-busting with terrorism. I would say it's certainly more mercantile than laissez-faire capitalism. Y'know the shiny neo-corporatism that's typified by hostile takeovers, Massey Energyu, Goldman-Sachs, BP and so on. You're right on with the rest of that though.

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
The Republicans are now showing us their ass. The Tea Party folks don't even realise that they've just sold themselves, and the rest of us out to the same people they call the "enemy". Dumbasses. The billionaire Koch brothers couldn't be happier with the results.


Yep. Saw a bunch of signs this weekend saying the teabaggers should learn to spell.
First, it might be better if they learned some math. Cuz, y'know.


I see the Union-buster's as terrorist's. They are terrorizing our wages, our pensions, our jobs and our benefits. Union-busting Neo-corporatism and Neo-Nazism have an ugly and striking resembleance to the events described in this article......

UBS Admits Predecessor Profiting from Nazi Slave Labor During World War Two
For the first time, Switzerland's biggest bank UBS has admitted that its predecessor benefited from Nazi slave labor during World War Two.

UBS spokesman Michael Willi was quoted by Swiss Radio International as confirming that the Swiss Bank Corporation, one of two banks that merged in 1998 to create UBS, had held a majority stake in a holding firm which itself had a majority share in the Golleschauer cement factory in Poland.

He said the factory was forcibly taken into Nazi administration when Nazi Germany invaded Poland in 1939 and that documents in Berlin proved that the cement works used slave laborers.

The UBS spokesman did not give an exact figure for the number of people involved but it is claimed that at least 400 prisoners from the nearby Auschwitz concentration camp were forced to work at the factory.


Last week, UBS along with Switzerland's second biggest bank, Credit Suisse, formally approved the 1.25 billion-dollar global settlement aimed at ending the long-running dispute over Holocaust assets.

A US judge has given Swiss companies which benefited from slave labor until August 25 to decide whether they want to be part of the deal. If they agree, they will be free from the threat of legal action.

Willi said any use of slave labor involving the banks is already covered under the settlement.


Solution......Impeach the Republican party. Perhaps it's time for an emergency recall vote to toss 'em all out.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:14 pm 
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Pension with 67, is now law in Germany.

In a conservative paper stands this has to be changed into seventy.



I eg would work the following next 13.7 billion years for just one single decent thing like f'r instance no senses anymore, or pls make all men go take to their madvice and thingy, what time is UFO?


No fibbin, i hate them now so much, really, i may not think about it, otherwise .... most of those are so beyond any description, it defies every try for starting just one normal thing. And herewits language takes a pause, a big sleazy sloppy slosh and awaits some space fairies which speak some charming Elfabet. L=^Q^=ve itses

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ya wa? the mewzick's pretty spectacular, geez. ..where's me chic cap swaggering to? rather mad. If only others would hark. Next phing on the wish-list gonna be a web-capable mobile iets, an hify-amp powered by solar-panels and propellers on that drat hat.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:19 pm 
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pertaining to the unions...

in my abstract thinking, its a power struggle, and one that needs to be fought daily

corporations can easily become too strong - government regulation, boycotting, unions

unions can easily become too strong - corporations, government

government can easily become too strong - unions, corporations, middle eastern facebook groups (lol)

people need unions. but give any person anything, they will take advantage of it. no doubt about it.
if companies could, they'd give no benefits and pay next to nothing. (or just outsource....sigh)
if unions could, they'd sit around all day getting paid more than their employers

how do you stop people from being the selfish humans that they are?

my idea, is to make them have to fight for what they want. the selfish fight against each other for top dollar. corporations cant just do away with unions, and unions better not expect to take advantage of their position or abuse their power without repercussions. the repercussions being that companies are forced to outsource...

all parties abuse their power whenever possible

its a marriage made in heaven


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:28 pm 
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great posts throughout from punknaynowned and spacebrother.

just wanted to say that. 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:04 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
[l]Solution......Impeach the Republican party. Perhaps it's time for an emergency recall vote to toss 'em all out.



You want the TEA PARTY intead ??? :?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:14 am 
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Caputh wrote:
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
So what is it that YOU are doing to make your life better, other than whinning and hoping the gov. baby sits you.


I quite like the idea of "whinning"
but do you mean...
1) Drinking a lot of good wine?
2) Achieving first place?
3) Make noises like a horse?
4) Complaining bitterly in a high pitched voice?

I also like the idea of a "government baby" sitting on one. At least it would be lighter than a 30 stone daddy.



You have just named most of what I mean

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:23 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
punknaynowned wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
If it wasn't for the assault against unions over the last 30 years by a certain side of the government, America's economy would be booming instead of collapsing. The situations in Wisconsin and Ohio only guarantee that if the anti-union crowd get their way, more Chinese people will be doing jobs that were once done by American's.


Yep.

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
I just changed the brakes on my car yesterday and guess what, the rotors were made in China, the brake pads were made in Mexico, and the only part made in America were the pins. WTF? These parts used to be made by Americans in union jobs done for Americans. Now I have to pay higher prices for manufactured obsolescence courtesy of China and Mexico, so that the CEO's make huge profits while their sweatshop slave laborers make a bowl of rice? Thanks to union destroying politicians? That sux bigtime.


Yep.


SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Education is also under attack in America, courtesy of the Right. In fact, it's one of the place's that has been taking the worst cuts. Go figure. Keep 'em "Dumb All Over".


Yep.

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
The destruction of our unions is the worst kind of terrorism America has ever been subjected to. When Bush was president, it was like 450,000 9/11's happening every single month by the time he left office. That was the rate of jobs losses on his watch. Now The GOP leadership in Wisconsin and Ohio want to get back to those bad 'ol days, and for what? So CEO's can still sell us the same worthless manufactured obsolescence at the same inflated price without having to pay a sweatshop laborors in China or Mexico the same wages they used to pay Americans, without the benefits, without the pensions or the protections so many generations of Americans had sacrificed their blood for?


I'd say it's hyperbole to equate union-busting with terrorism. I would say it's certainly more mercantile than laissez-faire capitalism. Y'know the shiny neo-corporatism that's typified by hostile takeovers, Massey Energyu, Goldman-Sachs, BP and so on. You're right on with the rest of that though.

SPACEBROTHER wrote:
The Republicans are now showing us their ass. The Tea Party folks don't even realise that they've just sold themselves, and the rest of us out to the same people they call the "enemy". Dumbasses. The billionaire Koch brothers couldn't be happier with the results.


Yep. Saw a bunch of signs this weekend saying the teabaggers should learn to spell.
First, it might be better if they learned some math. Cuz, y'know.


I see the Union-buster's as terrorist's. They are terrorizing our wages, our pensions, our jobs and our benefits. Union-busting Neo-corporatism and Neo-Nazism have an ugly and striking resembleance to the events described in this article......

UBS Admits Predecessor Profiting from Nazi Slave Labor During World War Two
For the first time, Switzerland's biggest bank UBS has admitted that its predecessor benefited from Nazi slave labor during World War Two.

UBS spokesman Michael Willi was quoted by Swiss Radio International as confirming that the Swiss Bank Corporation, one of two banks that merged in 1998 to create UBS, had held a majority stake in a holding firm which itself had a majority share in the Golleschauer cement factory in Poland.

He said the factory was forcibly taken into Nazi administration when Nazi Germany invaded Poland in 1939 and that documents in Berlin proved that the cement works used slave laborers.

The UBS spokesman did not give an exact figure for the number of people involved but it is claimed that at least 400 prisoners from the nearby Auschwitz concentration camp were forced to work at the factory.


Last week, UBS along with Switzerland's second biggest bank, Credit Suisse, formally approved the 1.25 billion-dollar global settlement aimed at ending the long-running dispute over Holocaust assets.

A US judge has given Swiss companies which benefited from slave labor until August 25 to decide whether they want to be part of the deal. If they agree, they will be free from the threat of legal action.

Willi said any use of slave labor involving the banks is already covered under the settlement.


Solution......Impeach the Republican party. Perhaps it's time for an emergency recall vote to toss 'em all out.



No they do not. Ok space braa, who pays for the benefits of the public sector? Also YOU continue to lump private sector union with public, in addition if you read the wis. bill you will see it still allows for wage bargaining!!!!! just not benefits.
I say it is unions especially auto, that has sent ford to Mexico and a lot of other companies.

YOU ALSO SOUND LIKE A DICTATER WANTING ONLY ONE POLITICAL PARTY. Get real

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:10 am 
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quote: I say it is unions especially auto, that has sent ford to Mexico and a lot of other companies.

I say it is greed for money over people that makes a working model into an exported model, rather than US labor costs.
Bravo Sierra, you're not patriotic enough! Think of the children!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:36 am 
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Then why do so many Japanese auto makers build them in the USA?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:05 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
Then why do so many Japanese auto makers build them in the USA?


They promised to build a Japanese auto plant here in Michigan. Even got handed over a bunch of money through tax incentives, only to decide to have them made in a Right To Work state so that they didn't have to pay normal living wages, benefits, pensions or have any union involvement. Reagan's anti-American legacy still haunts America 30 years later.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:09 am 
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Oh, and what happens to Unions in the public sector affects the private sector. Anyone who believes otherwise are completely clueless. The Republican party is only good at two things, killing jobs and raising prices (well actually 3 things, they start wars). Notice how that ever since the Republican's took the House, that predictably, gas prices have climbed over a dollar per gallon in less than a month in a half? Of course they'll blame events in the Middle East and/or a blown up refinery. Typical.


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