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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:12 pm 
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A rope leash wrote:
Ron Paul is morally against abortion. After years of struggle with the subject, I also think that the moral choice is to have the baby if at all possible. Ron Paul is a baby doctor...Dr. Paul...so he's seen abortion and he knows something about it. As far as the law goes, he doesn't think the Federal government should make any law regarding abortion, and that the states should hold this power. He damn sure doesn't think the Federal government should pay for anyone's abortion. That said, don't get all cranky about it, and stop acting as if everything Ron Paul believes will become law when he's elected. There's a very good possiblity that you'll still be able to kill your baby before it has a chance to breathe, even after Ron Paul has served eight years in the White House.




Yikes! Are you in favour of letting them keep the vote? :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:09 pm 
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Letting who keep the vote? Women? If that's what you're saying...

Not all women are pro-abortion. I personally think it should be legal, but I am morally against it, as are several of my women friends.

If left in it's natural environnment, the fertilized egg will quickly evolve into a human being. All human beings have the will to survive...indeed, most all of the higher life forms do. People starving, people in prison, people in war, sick people, homeless people, ect...they all want to live. Not many of us want to die. Logically, we should extend this consideration to the unborn. It's the moral thing to do...and yes, it could be hard on both mother and child, but life isn't easy, is it?

I understand that many women see it as "their body". I suppose it is, but it is a body within a body. The law, in many aspects, already sees the embryo as an entity. If you kill a pregnant woman, for instance, you can be charged with double homicide.

I don't think there is any way we can absolve ourselves of guilt in the act of abortion. The embryo is not a possible human being...in almost all cases, if left alone, it is most certantly born into humanity.

This is not some crank religious point of view. I am an atheist. There are many other atheists that feel the same way. It is a logical, practical point of view. There's many ways to aviod pregnancy. If you become pregnant when you don't want to be, you or whoever fucked you fucked up. It's no fault of the baby, so why should it die? If you want to kill a human being, kill yourself...or join a war.

In my view, abortion should be legal, and very rare. A lot of immoral things are legal. It should be extremely rare that a government would pay to have a potential citizen destroyed before it breathes.


...and I knew someone would interpret what I said about abortion to be anti-woman. Abortion is a sensitive, painful issue that gets people riled up. That's why it's always used as a wedge argument "for" or "against" a candidate. But, that doesn't work on me. The way I see it, when someone screams about their abortion rights, all they are doing is screaming about their right to legally kill an innocent person.


...and as I said, I didn't come to this point of view easily. I practically begged my drunken wife to abort her child. I though she was too much of a drunkard to raise a kid, and I was right. But, ya know what? Despite it all...BEST DAMN KID EVER....


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 Post subject: Re: ron paul supporters?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:00 pm 
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Uncle Bernie wrote:
who gives a fuck anyway? it's US politics... they're fucked whichever way they go
so true. 8)
if there's any country on this planet, where it doesn't matter who's president, it's the good ol u.s.a.
corporate america rules anyway. totally.

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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:55 am 
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A rope leash wrote:
I personally think it should be legal...


It should be, but Ron Paul voted to criminalize it more than once, including cases of rape, incest and when women's lives are at stake.

two examples of Ron Paul's government intervention/overstepping here...
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z ... L&summ2=m&

and here...
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z ... L&summ2=m&

A rope leash wrote:
I understand that many women see it as "their body". I suppose it is, but it is a body within a body. The law, in many aspects, already sees the embryo as an entity. If you kill a pregnant woman, for instance, you can be charged with double homicide.


Is this a way to conveniently support the notion that, Ron Paul, in fact, does support government intervention into peoples private and personal lives, without actually admitting or acknowledging that he is doing so? (A true John Kerry moment - he was against it before he supported it)

A rope leash wrote:
This is not some crank religious point of view. I am an atheist. There are many other atheists that feel the same way. It is a logical, practical point of view. There's many ways to aviod pregnancy. If you become pregnant when you don't want to be, you or whoever fucked you fucked up. It's no fault of the baby, so why should it die? If you want to kill a human being, kill yourself...or join a war.


The last question applies to this statement as well.

A rope leash wrote:
In my view, abortion should be legal, and very rare. A lot of immoral things are legal. It should be extremely rare that a government would pay to have a potential citizen destroyed before it breathes.
He didn't votejust to cut funding, he voted to criminalize it, thus giving the government yet another excuse to get further involved into peoples personal lives and take more money.

A rope leash wrote:
...and I knew someone would interpret what I said about abortion to be anti-woman. Abortion is a sensitive, painful issue that gets people riled up. That's why it's always used as a wedge argument "for" or "against" a candidate. But, that doesn't work on me. The way I see it, when someone screams about their abortion rights, all they are doing is screaming about their right to legally kill an innocent person.


The bottom line is it's another attempt to let big government try to find yet another way to clog the legal system so lawyers can find another cash cow. Nothing more nothing less. Ron Paul is just as big of a crook as any top tiered politician. It just so happens that some of his favorite flavors of pork tastes just like lawyers, insurance industry executives and big p-h-a-r-m-a executives.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:45 am 
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Once again, SpaceBro, you are using minor issues as a way of discarding an entire candidate.

Yes, he would vote to criminalize abortion, because he sees it as murder. He also sees it as a state issue, not a federal issue. The likelihood that he would get the entire legislative and court system to go along with banning abortion is virtually nil.

Illegal abortion is a chance I'm willing to take if it means an end to our overblown military expenditures, our nanny state, and our sick monetary system.

But, I doubt that abortion will be banned. It might not be legal in all states, but I think a person will still be able to get an abortion somewhere in the United States even after eight years of Ron Paul. Getting the federal government to pay for it might not be easy, though.

So, according to you, Ron wants lawyers to find another cash cow. Is this why he wants the drug wars to end?

Yes, I'm sure he has many of the same attributes as all of our proud leaders. You don't stay in politics without playing the game. But, Ron Paul has been very consistent in his views, has nearly zero personal-life liabilities, and of all the mainstream candidates, he is the one that represents the real, dramatic change in our government that so many of us desire.




VOTE NO in 2012!


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:34 pm 
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The statement right from Ron Pauls mouth in this video completely contradicts every reason why you say you would vote him...

http://disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/708 ... t_Buddies/

Why would he support his pro-bailout buddies? Perhaps it's because he is against a nanny state, unless they give nanny state support to banking and Wall Street executives, at the expense of all of us non-millionaires.

Ron Paul: wolf in sheeps clothing

Image

He'll never win the Republican primary and he'll never get elected, but he could potentially be a ringer that tilts an election down the road. A person who would vote for Ron Paul believing that he would be an Independant Liberatarian will be in for some serious disappointment.

But hey, maybe even the smartest guy in the room gets fooled too. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:13 pm 
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You are a demogogue, Space Bro. You are taking a tiny clip out of context and using it as a blanket invalidation. Being a member of a party does require some distasteful compromises. I joined the republicans in 2007 to support Dr. Paul. It's a bit like coming out of the closet when you aren't really gay. Paul's reluctant support for other Texan republicans is the same thing.

Wolf in sheeps clothing? Hardly. He has a 35 year voting record and it is consistent. Antiwar, anti- fed, pro civil liberties, etc. Arguably the most ethical statesman in US history.

Is there another candidate that you prefer?


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:22 pm 
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Is this where we start believing that we're going to go to the gold standard?

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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:28 pm 
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It doesn't matter whether you believe in a gold standard or not. The paper standard has failed and we will suffer dearly for it.

Who benefits? The Fed, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:35 pm 
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Well, I believe the gold standard is hilarious.

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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:42 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:02 pm 
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That's the kind of posting you get from people who cannot form an argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:08 pm 
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AnotherSteve wrote:
That's the kind of posting you get from people who cannot form an argument.

Then make an argument! All this suffer dearly shit is useless. Paul likes the gold standard. I challanged anyone to make his case for him. You weaseled out of it while insinuating that there was no other choice. Have something to say before you knock what others have to say.

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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:16 pm 
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What is it I weaseled out of? Suffer dearly "shit"?

Have you noticed the increasing numbers of unemployed people? Have you seen any of the tent cities? Have you noticed rising prices? Do you notice the foreclosures? Do you know anyone who died overseas to protect some rich motherfucker's investments? Do you know anyone in prison for a victimless crime?

Maybe you don't know anyone who is suffering.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:23 pm 
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Yes, suffer dearly SHIT. The kind of thing that people say when they don't actually want to say something of substance. You talk about suffering without actually talking about it, much less how it relates to Paul. Useless.

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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:32 pm 
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OK so you don't know anybody who has suffered from financial trouble or bad government policies.

Perhaps you can make a good case for supporting our current financial system. Do you think it is a good idea for the Fed to print money and give it to their friends in the military industrial complex? Or the financial instutions?

Do you think the war on drugs is a success? How about the war on terror? Or the war on poverty?

Meanwhile, here is some recent press on our candidate. Enjoy.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08 ... e-economy/


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:40 pm 
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Gee, thanx for pigeonholing me, you're very effective at almost saying something. Why should I even bother answering your questions when you simply throw around insults without making ANY kind of case for your candidate or his policies? You are all over the map without saying a damn thing.
I gotta go... good luck on trying to say something, maybe you can come up with another snide accusation.

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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Steve, you have no argument so far. All you've done is state that folks are having hard times, which is obvious. You haven't connected it to the gold standard, or anything else. Does the fact that times are hard automatically make the case for Paul and the gold standard? That's not much of a case.

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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:48 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
AnotherSteve wrote:
That's the kind of posting you get from people who cannot form an argument.

Then make an argument! All this suffer dearly shit is useless. Paul likes the gold standard. I challanged anyone to make his case for him. You weaseled out of it while insinuating that there was no other choice. Have something to say before you knock what others have to say.



The fact that Ron Paul would legalize pot is all that matters. That one act alone would craete hundreds of thousands of jobs and bring billions of dollars into the economy. Not to mention righting a wrong that has been allowed to go on far too long. This election should be a one issue election - who's gonna legalize. Not you? Then fuck you! Next?

Not you either? Then fuck you too!

Oh, You will? OK, you're my man.

Very simple. And I PROMISE you legalization will fix the economy quicker than you can say Overnite Sensation.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:03 pm 
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I don't know what I said that you found insulting.

OK, The reason people are suffering financially is because the government, in collusion with the Fed, is destroying our money. When they print more money, then there is more money in circulation chasing around the same quantity of goods and services. As a result prices rise. This is a hidden TAX and it affects poor people the most.

This hidden tax has wiped out entire civilizations. Are you aware of the food riots in Greece? Or the meltdown in Iceland? How about the hyperinflation in Zimbabwe? There are countless cases in history where a central bank has caused incredible devastation, wiped out the middle class, and made a huge profit. The Weimar Republic is another prime example.

Our own central bank (the Fed) made a massive profit from the great depression. This fact is not well known, because the press is owned by the same people.

The single best reason to support Ron Paul is that he would put a stop to central banking. This would almost automatically stop the militarism, because the counterfeit financing would stop.

If your dollars were redeemable in gold, then it would be impossible to create money out of thin air. I'm not sure a gold standard is the best idea, but honest money must be backed up by something. Otherwise a central bank can print all they want.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:45 pm 
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Good to see others joining in the fray!

You got it right, Steve...fiat currency always ends up in hyperinflation. Money needs to be backed by something of real value...otherwise, it's worthless.

World history is full of bank failure examples. They get rich by creating balloons and popping them. It's time to try something that doesn't end up in a war.

I have personally suffered from the bad economy. I know many others that are suffering or are on their way. Some of these folks thought it would never happen to them.

I came to Ron Paul in much the same way bugler has. When my gal was tricked into buying a small amount of weed for and undercover "dude", they threw the book at her. The drug war is a money-sucking farce that has only given us a police state. I am sick to death of drunkards getting a free pass. Why can't I smoke a paranioa-free joint for once in my life?

These arguments against Dr. Paul haven't swayed me in the least. If there was another candidate that had the same integrity but was a bit younger and not as scary to government-loving liberals, I might go for that candidate...but there isn't, so Ron's all we got.

Since you guys all love links so much, this YouTube video will help explain further why you might wish to consider Dr. Paul...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8io11R6-cs


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:55 pm 
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Please!

Everyone should watch this video of Ron Paul telling it like it is about Barak Obama...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZJpU9WN ... re=related

...and telling it like it is WAY before most people had him figured out!


ha ha ha ha ha!


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:37 pm 
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The only thing I will add here is to recommend a couple of Jon Stewart's Dailey Show episodes from 8/15-17 when Jon comments at length about how the press left & right are not only ignoring RP but actually treating him maliciously, very funny recommend you all watch. Otherwise like my good friend Lumpy it doesn't matter you end up manipulated as President, the one who didn't was killed, he's brother who said he wouldn't was killed on his way there. President Obama is so slotted in the middle they don't even have a Plane A... :lol:

:smoke:


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:13 pm 
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Reasons Progressives Should Treat Ron Paul with Extreme Caution -- 'Cuddly' Libertarian Has Some Very Dark Politics
He's anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-black, anti-senior-citizen, anti-equality and anti-education, and that's just the start.


http://www.alternet.org/news/152192/

There are few things as maddening in a maddening political season as the warm and fuzzy feelings some progressives evince for Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, the Republican presidential candidate. "The anti-war Republican," people say, as if that's good enough.

But Ron Paul is much, much more than that. He's the anti-Civil-Rights-Act Republican. He's an anti-reproductive-rights Republican. He's a gay-demonizing Republican. He's an anti-public education Republican and an anti-Social Security Republican. He's the John Birch Society's favorite congressman. And he's a booster of the Constitution Party, which has a Christian Reconstructionist platform. So, if you're a member of the anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-black, anti-senior-citizen, anti-equality, anti-education, pro-communist-witch-hunt wing of the progressive movement, I can see how he'd be your guy...

The article shines a light on Ron Paul's sordid platforms and past. Read the links.

http://www.alternet.org/news/152192/

http://www.alternet.org/story/152217/wh ... &rd=1&t=21


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul supporters?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:41 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-black, anti-senior-citizen, anti-equality, anti-education, pro-communist-witch-hunt


You can't back up a single one of those labels, Space Demogogue. There are huge coalitions of blacks, gays, women, and senior citizens who fully support Dr. Paul.

Jon Stewart explains how we are getting plooked by the media here. Thanks Plook for inspiring me to find this again. It's a good one.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-a ... e-top-tier


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