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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:45 am 
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Here's the results of the ZFT's failed lawsuit against Rykodisc. Ryko, however, won partial judgement on some of their counterclaims perhaps spelling an end to the MO's (MOFO, Lumpy Money, etc.).

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/di ... 1313676451


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:49 pm 
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Pretty tricky. Ryko agrees to only release certain material...in the USA, then releases other material in Japan, which is not covered by USA law.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:33 pm 
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the zft lawyers fucked up big time, batting .100, only winning lumpy money disc 1 & getting thrashed on the other 9 claims ... fillipetii & travers both got airballs; unless my interpretation of the 18-page legalese missed the mark; kinda sad, maybe ryko/zft can move beyond this, work together for various future projects either within the non-compete agreement, or new frontiers


  1. 1. gz's 2nd and 7th claims denied [joe's garage, yellow snow, montana on strictly commercial cd]
    2. summary judgment granted for ryko [dancin' fool]

  2. apple, not ryko, distributed restricted tracks [watermelon, napkins & zoot] ... summary judgment in favor of ryko on zft' s 5th & 6th claims

  3. 1. summary judgment denied on zft's 1st & 2nd claims to distribute the subject masters in digital format
    2. summary judgment in favor of ryko on zft's 1st & 2nd claims to distribute the subject masters in vinyl format

  4. original un-mixed source recordings & unreleased remixes ... '94 agreement prevents zft competing by re-mixing; summary judgment denied on zft claim

  5. 1. summary judgment denied, ryko claim on disc 1 of lumpy money
    2. summary judgment in favor of ryko on their 1st & 2nd counterclaims [mofo, hot rats vinyl, and disc 2 of lumpy money]

  6. summary judgment in favor of ryko on their 5th, 6th, and 8th counterclaims, the 10 ringytones

  7. zft's motion for summary judgment on its 3rd and 4th claims is denied [läther liner notes, cover art & 3rd party check for $100k]

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:33 pm 
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Last edited by KAPT.KIIRK on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:56 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Thanks KU,I read it and it sure don't sit right.Is there a chance of an appeal? Doe's Ryko have the ZFT by the short hairs? Whats the deal in the long run? Anyone know the repercusions of this settlement to the consumer?
Freakin' corperations want the pennies from your eyes!


It definitely doesn't look good. Unless there is an appeal and it's won by the ZFT, I doubt we'll be seeing any additional multi-disc Project/Object sets in the future (ala, MOFO or Lumpy Money).

Thanks for posting this, KillUgly!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:40 am 
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I did not see a cease and desist order. So i guess they can still sell those Mofo's and Lumpy money's. Why no ruben and the jets though??

20 Million bucks is pretty nice in a one lump sum dont ya think??

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:36 pm 
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Last edited by KAPT.KIIRK on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:39 pm 
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kapt.kiirk wrote:
... part 'd' under the '94 agreement they're not allowed to compete!? What kind of capitalism is that? Are they afraid Gail gave them the 'lousey' copy just to release the 'good' copy after Ryko doe's the promo 17yrs after? :roll: Do any statutes of limitations exist here?

it's capitalism in it's finest form; gz capitalized on the fz catalog, ryko is now trying to capitalize on the exclusive rights to exploit same

william h. pauley iii, district judge wrote:
... on the other hand, ryko paid $20 million for the rights it acquired, a sum that would be difficult to justify if the 1994 Agreement permitted Zappa to openly compete by re-mixing the original source tracks and releasing re-mixed versions of the same albums it had just sold...
a mono version that was never sold previous to '94 on a cd or lp is exempt from the '94 agreement, but an alternate stereo version or backing tracks or loud re-mixes etc are all considered competing products


the scary/sad part is, it appears the agreement has no statue of, or time limitations; how quick can the 20 mil be re-couped ¿ you think they can earn $400k profit per year selling zappa cds ¿ 50 years to break even

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 Post subject: Re: zft hoisted by ryko
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:46 pm 
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ryko doesn't even have zappa listed on their website anymore... what's up with that?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:52 pm 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
it's capitalism in it's finest form; gz capitalized on the fz catalog, ryko is now trying to capitalize on the exclusive rights to exploit same

a mono version that was never sold previous to '94 on a cd or lp is exempt from the '94 agreement, but an alternate stereo version or backing tracks or loud re-mixes etc are all considered competing products

Yep. Honestly, when all the MOFO/Lumpy Money stuff started coming out, I remember wondering how they were getting away with releasing that stuff with the Ryko deal presumably still in place. I took their choice to not release them as "The Freak Out Sessions" or whatever as a careful legal move. Guess Ryko felt differently.


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 Post subject: Re: zft hoisted by ryko
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:55 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
ryko doesn't even have zappa listed on their website anymore... what's up with that?

There's been something funny going on with Ryko's FZ catalog for a few years now. A good chunk of the main catalog is unavailable on Amazon (well, aside from used copies).

Anyone?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:37 pm 
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if lumpy money included an actual ryko cd they'd probably be ok with it, the added cost of the cd is offset with more copies sold by cross-marketing & more exposure; anyone considering an original zappa cd might be willing to get it with the 40th package

madcow1515 wrote:
...careful legal move...
her lawyers can't handle anything beyond a c&d

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:44 am 
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There must be someone decent over at Warner Bros as evidenced by the Wounded Birds re-issue label (including the FLINT album w/FZ cameo). Get it: WB.


http://www.woundedbird.com/


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:29 am 
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brainpang wrote:
There must be someone decent over at Warner Bros as evidenced by the Wounded Birds re-issue label (including the FLINT album w/FZ cameo). Get it: WB.


http://www.woundedbird.com/


They also have the reissue 2cd set of Robert Craft conducting Varese
Lots of nice stuff there on the international sales link, thanks brainpang


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:03 pm 
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How does this happen... :?

:smoke:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:20 pm 
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Last edited by KAPT.KIIRK on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:02 am 
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I would think that part of this could be resolved if
  • the Anniversary Box sets were released through Ryko
  • It were made clearer to Apple which tracks on which albums were to be made available on an "album only" basis. They do provide for that option. For example "Twinkle Tits" on BTB III Disk one is available "Album Only".

What I find contradictory is that ZFT themselves have made available Zappa performances of "Black Napkins" and "Watermelon on Easter Hay" on Beat the Boots as individual downloads on iTunes. Although not the original released LP performances, they are still performances of the signature tunes by Frank.

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 Post subject: Re: zft hoisted by ryko
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:11 am 
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madcow1515 wrote:
Lumpy Gravy wrote:
ryko doesn't even have zappa listed on their website anymore... what's up with that?

There's been something funny going on with Ryko's FZ catalog for a few years now. A good chunk of the main catalog is unavailable on Amazon (well, aside from used copies).

Anyone?


Some are available from Red Tag Market via Amazon, but at an exaggerated price, e.g. "Hot Rats" at $20.37, which to me indicates these are relatively rare or are being imported from outside the US.
What is amusing-and probably incorrect, unless these are pre-1995 European releases-is that Hot Rats is listed under the label "Zappa Records".

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:09 pm 
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It seems to me that the only thing that is threatened with anniversary packages is the inclusion of whole copies of original albums or tracks from the original masters. That doesn't threaten smaller one disc projects with historical materials relevant to any given album or several albums in one project if there isn't enough material. I always felt Gail was being a bit ambitious with the number of discs in that MOFO thing. Quality not quantity is what I'd like to see and by that I don't mean the quality of the sound of the item so much as its relevance and uniqueness.

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 Post subject: re: zft hoisted by ryko
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:48 am 
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Bill wrote:
Quote:
Some are available from Red Tag Market via Amazon, but at an exaggerated price, e.g. "Hot Rats" at $20.37, which to me indicates these are relatively rare or are being imported from outside the US...

Quote:
I would think that part of this could be resolved if
  • the Anniversary Box sets were released through Ryko
  • It were made clearer to Apple which tracks on which albums were to be made available on an "album only"...

What I find contradictory is that ZFT themselves have made available Zappa performances of "Black Napkins" and "Watermelon on Easter Hay" on Beat the Boots as individual downloads on iTunes. Although not the original released LP performances, they are still performances of the signature tunes by Frank


exaggerated pricing maybe the result of inventory control software or data mining the cloud & figuring out determining supply/demand

can't see any significant reason not to release the anniv box sets thru ryko, or some collaborative bit of marketing; "ryko advised apple frequently that the restricted cuts were subject to certain limitations" some apple grunt either dropped the ball or ingored ryko ... 50 legal downloads of zoot, 1 black napkins & 0 watermelon are now illegal ¿


restriced cuts speculation: fz's original intent, as reported/rumored/otherwise speculated, nobody allowed to perform the 3 songs [live or studio] except the dweez ... all 3 have been released before & after '94

restrictions were subsequently negotiated as part of the original ryko contract as a minor concession for 3 tracks, zft retain full rights to these 3, never to be released on their own by others, etc. blablabla ... maybe that's why fz plays fz doesn't violate the ryko agreement

Code:
(ZFT Counterstmt. ~ 12; 1994 Agreement ~ 12.4.)
Under paragraph 12.4, Rykodisc agreed that the Restricted Cuts "will
not be coupled with other master recordings or licensed for individual
synchronization use or otherwise used individually ... and such masters
may only be used on those Albums of Subject Masters they have
heretofore been on."

agree with bill, contradictory if the 3 tracks were available as single btb downloads, also the june/04 guitar techniques magazine got approval to publish a complete zoot allures transcription, including the backing tracks on a cd ... staggeringly inconsistent is how they let the guy from kiss [that's right, you heard right, bring the band down behind me boys ... gene fucking simmons ¿ ] butcher black napkins

so as bill suggests, collaboration on future box sets with/thru ryko appears to be a no brain policer, same with single cut downloads


polydigm wrote:
It seems to me that the only thing that is threatened with anniversary packages is the inclusion of whole copies of original albums or tracks from the original masters...
no partial tracks, samples or ring tones allowed

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Last edited by KAPT.KIIRK on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:38 pm 
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KillUgly wrote:
Here's the results of the ZFT's failed lawsuit against Rykodisc. Ryko, however, won partial judgement on some of their counterclaims perhaps spelling an end to the MO's (MOFO, Lumpy Money, etc.).

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/di ... 1313676451


If the ZFT wants to release anniversary sets, the can only do it through Ryko. I saw nothing in the decision which gives the ZFT much hope to independly release the original versions of LPs as parts of those products.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:48 pm 
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Last edited by KAPT.KIIRK on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:47 am 
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Apparently, according to the GZ Sez page, future vinyl issues will not be impacted by this suit:

On Jan 14, 2012, at 7:08 PM, Steven Ford wrote:

Are there any plans to rerelease Frank’s material on vinyl?
The remastered 200gm Hot Rats was really good.
I’ve got some holes in my early MOI collection and vinyl just kills digital on a good system.
Thanks,
Steve Ford
P.S.
Thanks to you and your family for making that statue dedication in Baltimore such a great day.

Thank you for your very kind words and your question. The answer is YES! And we are very happy to finally be able to do this but you will have to watch the skies for more information.

See you in Baltimore!

gz


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:56 pm 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
polydigm wrote:
It seems to me that the only thing that is threatened with anniversary packages is the inclusion of whole copies of original albums or tracks from the original masters...
no partial tracks, samples or ring tones allowed
Okay, I'm not always willing to do all the leg work, there are only 24 hours in a day, but what I have gathered is that not everything on the MOFOs, for example, would be verboten. Hence, more trim historical projects would still be possible. To me, that type of thing would be better value in the long run. As I said, quality, not quantity. I'm not going to quibble about the price of ZFT CDs, I would be happy to pay over the average CD price for an archival project that the ZFT had gone the extra mile to produce. Basically, smaller and more juicy. If I had the time, I have the tools to put one together that would make my point, I don't, but it's an obvious point, surely. (I mean in general, not you Slime, I'm sure you know what I mean).

Anyway Slime, what's your take on the legal allowability of cut down MOFO type projects? I'm assuming that's still possible.

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