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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:37 pm 
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Notwithstanding the inexorable dumming down of England over recent decades - football 'culture', binge-drinking, TV presenters, weather girls, etc. - one thing we still have left to be proud of is the English Language (even though people who can't speak it proper no more appear to be highly fashionable). Frank employed it superbly in his songs, interviews and books, and wouldn't have been half as successful or memorable if he hadn't.<br><br>What could be more outrageous than a language that purportedly has 10 different ways of pronouncing that infamous little group of 4 letters 'ough'? I can find seven and a half of them: maybe other language lovers can help with the rest? Maybe American-born Forumers have more ways (or less) than we do on account of our different ways of pronouncing things? Maybe Latin or German or any other semi-but-not-too-spiffy-English-speaking Forumers have a zillion more ways of pronouncing 'ough'?<br><br>Is this challenge enough? Ought it to be tougher? Be thorough! Plough through your minds! Cough up! Your words are wanted - not your dough!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:41 pm 
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"D'ough!"  Said Homer.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:43 pm 
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" why,  i oughta ..."  

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:51 pm 
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I've thought about this and can't answer you.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:53 pm 
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Tengo una minchia tanta. Yo quiero Taco Bell.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:34 pm 
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[quote author=Flatulus link=board=rant;num=1133663872;start=0#0 date=12/03/05 at 20:37:52] (even though people who can't speak it proper no more appear to be highly fashionable).[/quote]<br><br><br>(even though people who can't speak it [s]proper[/s] properly no [s]more[/s] longer appear to be highly fashionable)<br><br>  ;D


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:26 pm 
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[quote author=flatulus link=board=rant;num=1133663872;start=0#0 date=12/03/05 at 20:37:52]...Frank employed it superbly in his songs, interviews and books, and wouldn't have been half as successful or memorable if he hadn't...<br><br>... Maybe American-born Forumers have more ways (or less) than we do on account of our different ways of pronouncing things? ...[/quote]<br>american english can't be beat for the ease of coloquializing standard terminology as well as the use of analogies, slang and double definitions; frank was a master of descriptive expession and semi-hidden meanings [jizz, poot, little bo peep diploma, sanctified johnson, punching an eclair (my fav), underneath virginia, wanna buy a grunt, etc. etc.] and his lyrics could be easily re-oriented in multiple directions based on a single secret word for tonite<br><br>nothing personal, but there's no comparison between american & the queens english<br><br>check out the arf site; how many artists have an entire website devoted to the analysis and translation of lyrics from english to english

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:03 pm 
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[quote author=Uncle Bernie link=board=rant;num=1133663872;start=0#5 date=12/03/05 at 21:34:55](even though people who can't speak it [s]proper[/s] properly no [s]more[/s] longer appear to be highly fashionable)[/quote]even though people who can't speak it properly [s]no[/s] any longer appear to be highly fashionable.    ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:16 pm 
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Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
I got the following somewhere on the internet:<br><br>The combination ough can be pronounced in fourteen different ways: <br>1. awe: thought, bought, fought, brought, ought, sought, nought, wrought<br>2. uff: enough, rough, tough, slough, Clough, chough<br>3. ooh: through, slough <br>4. oh: though, although, dough, doughnut, broughm, Ough, furlough, Greenough, thorough<br>5. off: cough, trough<br>6. ow: bough, plough, sough<br>7. ou: drought, doughty, Stoughton<br>8. uh: Scarborough, borough, thorough (alt), thoroughbred, Macdonough, Poughkeepsie<br>9. up: hiccoughed<br>10. oth: trough (alt)<br>11. ock: lough, hough<br>12. oc[h] (aspirated): lough<br>13. ahf: Gough<br>14. og: Coughlin (also #5)<br>The following sentence contains them all: <br>Rough-coated(2), dough-faced(4), thoughtful(1) ploughman(6) John Gough(13) strode through(3) the streets of Loughborough(2 + 8 ); after falling into a slough(2) on Coughlin(14) road near the lough(12) (dry due to drought)(7), he coughed(5) and hiccoughed(9), then checked his horse's houghs(11)and washed up in a trough(10).

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:26 pm 
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it amaaaze's me <br>this generation of , not only teens <br>head hunched over a cell-phone, txt.ing <br>to one person or another   ???<br>the wave of th future ?<br> .. oh spare me please<br><br>or is this what living is really all about ?<br><br> 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:29 am 
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[quote author=slime.oofytv.set link=board=rant;num=1133663872;start=0#6 date=12/03/05 at 22:26:31]<br>american english can't be beat for the ease of coloquializing standard terminology as well as the use of analogies, slang and double definitions...<br><br>...nothing personal, but there's no comparison between american & the queens english<br>[/quote]<br>Yes, this may be true regarding the type of English only found in the Oxford English Dictionary, but there's some really cool permutations and colloquializations of English that I've heard from the UK. I don't recall what it's called but they use a lot of cultural references and metaphors as substitutes for real words, etc. I remember not being able to follow conversations people were having when they used it. Pretty cool sounding stuff once someone explains to you the meanings.<br><br>American English may have advanced new terminology more quickly, and with hip hop it's still growing rapidly, but I don't think we corner the market on slang and colloquialisms.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:50 am 
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[quote author=Dameon link=board=rant;num=1133663872;start=15#15 date=12/04/05 at 08:47:11]<br><br> You're may be thinking of rhyming slang, or Cockney rhyming slang to give it it's fuller title.<br> A Cockney is a Londoner who was born within ear-shot of the chuch of St. Mary-le-Bow. It's a dialect of word substitution, so that "I'm Hank" means "I'm starvin'"; Hank Marvin = starving. "I've been on my plates all day" means "I've been on my feet all day"; Plates of meat = feet. "He's wearing a syrup!" means "He's wearing a wig!"; Syrup and figs = wig(s).<br> The list is nearly endless and there are new additions to this un-written dictionary every year.[/quote]<br><br>Image<br><br>That's exactly what I meant.  Thanks! I knew someone here would know what I was talking about. <br><br>I was gonna say Cockney, but I wasn't sure if it was a Cockney dialect. I'd love to learn more of that stuff. Too bad there's not a set of tapes to learn Cockney.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:31 am 
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Uncle Bernie & polydigm: Please tell me you know when I said "people who can't speak it proper no more" that I was employing IRONY.<br><br>Anyway, thanks especially to polydigm for the new list of 14. The reason I said I'd only got seven and a half was because I never really trusted "lough" (Irish equivalent of "loch", because it was Irish, not English.<br><br>Also, like scallop, I'm upset about "slough". According to the Chambers Dictionary, if it means a hollow filled with mud or a marsh, it's pronounced "slow" in Queen's English; if it's a backwater or a marshland creek, it's "sloo" in American English. If it's a cast skin, it's "sluff". WAAH! PETULANT FRENZY! One of my favourite phrases of all time is "Slough of Despond", and I want it to be "Sluff of Despond", not fucking "Sloo of Despond"! I am in a SLUFF of Despond about this.<br><br>I guess it's OK when a word has two different meanings for those words to be pronounced differently, but when a word with only one meaning has optional pronunciations - THAT should not be allowed, no way! The Authorities should be totally fascist about this - legs must be broken and limbs severed. If I was a Chinese Mandarin trying to learn English, it'd be much easier for me if there was only one way to pronounce something.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:22 am 
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[quote author=Flatulus link=board=rant;num=1133663872;start=15#20 date=12/04/05 at 11:31:30]Uncle Bernie & polydigm: Please tell me you know when I said "people who can't speak it proper no more" that I was employing IRONY.<br><br>[/quote]<br><br>Yes, I thought there was a good chance of that, but couldn't resist the correction.   ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:34 am 
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como no voy a saber hablar mi propio idioma 'inchi güey tan babas  ;D

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:37 pm 
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I'm almost sure I would agree with Martorelli & googly moogly wholeheartedly, but have to admit that my Klingon is a little rusty.<br><br>Also, if I had got(ten) around to forming a rock band in my more youthful days (not too likely now), I'd've called it Slough of Despond (that's SLUFF, of course). A cool alternative would've been Blighted Ovum. Feel free to use it, pop pickers, if you need a name for your new band.

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