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 Post subject: FZ vs Robert Fripp
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:13 am 
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Ah, those two legendary rock guitarists! I think there are a few compatibilities in between those two musicians. First of all, both are classically influenced musicians and composers, masterfully synthesizing classicism, jazz and rock. 2ndly, both of them have had this revolving door principle regarding their own bands, never a steady line up kept. Thirdly, both of them usually didn't rely on back up guitarists for sixties and seventies (but did so in eighties (and in Fripp's case, from that point on too)). oh, and both Crimso and Mothers are said to have their best recordings done in like 1973-4 ("OS"/"Roxy"/OSFA VS "LTIA"/Starless/Red") and all of them are viewed as valuable contributions to progressive rock. Oh yeah, Adrian Belew has worked with both of them.

What do you think sets these two apart? What are the main differences in the compositional and instrumental approach?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:53 am 
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I'd say from a technical point of view, Robert Fripp is a much more disciplined guitar player than FZ. Fripp uses strict alternate picking on most of his stuff, while FZ seems to have a much more idiosyncratic picking technique on the guitar, almost randomly switching between alternate picking, pulloffs to open strings, little sweeps, scraping noises with the pick etc.

I think Fripp is also mostly comfortable writing for a standard rock lineup. It's pretty obvious that a lot of King Crimson's music was written with the guitar in mind. A lot of his compositions are often based on symmetrical patterns that lay well on the guitar neck (like LTIA pt 2, Fracture etc.). A lot of Zappa's melodies seem to be written with horns, keyboards or tuned percussion in mind and when you try to play those melodies on guitar, you get pretty odd and tough fingering patterns (like the unison parts in Inca Roads or St. Alphonso).

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 Post subject: Re: FZ vs Robert Fripp
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:58 am 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
What do you think sets these two apart? What are the main differences in the compositional and instrumental approach?


Fripp is an arrogant asshole, even though he is a good musician...

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:03 am 
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I don't know... the one time I saw King Crimson in concert, it looked more like he suffers from some extreme case of stage fright, even after being on stage for 30 years. He barely acknowledged the audience at all and played with his back to us. I guess it's easy to think of this as arrogance. I must say that some of the liner notes in KC albums are very pompous, though...

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:30 am 
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Fripp is dope but he doesn't have even a percentage of Frank's flavour in his playing.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:52 am 
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Studebaker wrote:
I don't know... the one time I saw King Crimson in concert, it looked more like he suffers from some extreme case of stage fright, even after being on stage for 30 years. He barely acknowledged the audience at all and played with his back to us. I guess it's easy to think of this as arrogance. I must say that some of the liner notes in KC albums are very pompous, though...


Stuff like stop playing, leaving the stage and leaving the other band mates and audience unconfortable because one asshole in the audience shot a flash picture, is a little bit too much for me...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:09 am 
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Studebaker wrote:
I'd say from a technical point of view, Robert Fripp is a much more disciplined guitar player than FZ. Fripp uses strict alternate picking on most of his stuff, while FZ seems to have a much more idiosyncratic picking technique on the guitar, almost randomly switching between alternate picking, pulloffs to open strings, little sweeps, scraping noises with the pick etc.

I think Fripp is also mostly comfortable writing for a standard rock lineup. It's pretty obvious that a lot of King Crimson's music was written with the guitar in mind. A lot of his compositions are often based on symmetrical patterns that lay well on the guitar neck (like LTIA pt 2, Fracture etc.). A lot of Zappa's melodies seem to be written with horns, keyboards or tuned percussion in mind and when you try to play those melodies on guitar, you get pretty odd and tough fingering patterns (like the unison parts in Inca Roads or St. Alphonso).


Thanks Studebaker for your abundant answers.

I have to agree with the writing for standard rock line up thing. Even on the most instrumentally textured albums like "Lizard" or "islands" (featuring guitars, mellotrons, brass, woodwinds, piano, drums and strings) it seemed that the horns were more used for improvisation, and after 1972 King Crimson's music never included saxes or flutes like on the early albums and since the "Discipline" era, the line up has strictly been guitar-bass-drums, with a lone mellotron added here or there. A shame in a way, because i think Mel Collins (winds) and David Cross (violin) were excellent players.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:22 am 
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For me, this was King Crimson's energy peack:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:35 am 
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I really dig 'Lizard', I think that record is pretty unfairly maligned. True, the vocals are an acquired taste, although they don't really bother me. 'Live at Summit Studios' is a killer archival release, if you'd ever wonder how KC would sound if they tried to play 'funky'. They even rip through a Pharoah Sanders' free jazz tune.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:37 am 
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Studebaker wrote:
I really dig 'Lizard', I think that record is pretty unfairly maligned. True, the vocals are an acquired taste, although they don't really bother me. 'Live at Summit Studios' is a killer archival release, if you'd ever wonder how KC would sound if they tried to play 'funky'. They even rip through a Pharoah Sanders' free jazz tune.


Yeah, their take on "Creator..." is lovely, even though the sound isn't perfect on that one, i think that the tracks are poorly mixed. Boz' vocals just jump at you! and Fripp's rhythm guitar playing behind flute and sax solos is a little too low in the mix.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:02 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
For me, this was King Crimson's energy peack:

Image


Peak? Id say Larks Tongues In Aspic..........closely followed by Starless And Bible Black and Red....

ThrakAttak is pretty good too, all live improv.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:24 pm 
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FZ and Fripp? Yeah, their last names are pretty unusual, and they both have two P's in them.
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And they both realized pretty early on in their respective careers, that the music industry doesn't like music.
And, they both, in their own way, decided to go their own way.
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But, musical similarities? No, I don't think so. Two totally different attitudes.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:34 pm 
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what is a good fripp album need to know i can have a good laugh then comparing. :wink: not saying he is crap yet?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:20 pm 
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cleon wrote:
what is a good fripp album need to know i can have a good laugh then comparing. :wink: not saying he is crap yet?


larks' tongues in aspic (1973)
starless and bible black (1974)
red (1974)
_________________________________

Fripp disbanded Crimson after 'Red,' because he felt they had become like a dinosaur and began a solo career. When he re-formed the band in 1980, they were going to be called Discipline. But, as Fripp explained it; "King Crimson has a life of its own, despite what its members say and do. Any thought-form which attracts interest becomes partly iconic and since the group 'ceased to exist' in 1974 interest has continued. At the beginning of rehearsals during the first week of April, I recognized this potential hovering behind the band, an available energy if we chose to plug in."

And, one day, driving over to Bruford's house, he felt it hovering above his head to the left.

- from Fripp's Diary Chapter 9

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:52 pm 
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pretty different,
frank's down to earth reallity knowledge and use of the music as a vehicle for expresing his feelings and political and psycological ideas,
using any musical form in a masterful genius level besides being a genius unique painter with his guitar.
fripp's discipline in his very own guitarristic aproach, being a master band head and experimenting and improvisiong with his frippertronics, but being a strange weird, very weird introverted caracter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:59 pm 
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I have seen KC & Fripp with G3 but I have to say that his music is rather colder & probably has a sense of anguish that gets tired to anyone trying to be trascendental.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:42 pm 
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cleon wrote:
what is a good fripp album need to know


I like these very much:

The ConstruKction Of Light (2000)
The Power To Believe (2003)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:19 am 
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I saw KC & "21 st Century Schizoid Band" ( Ian McDonald, Peter Giles, Ian Wallace, Mel Collins & Jakko Jaksyik) in 2003 & of course my tastes are closer to the second ones because the actual KC don´t give the same flavour & colour to music as before.


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 Post subject: Re: FZ vs Robert Fripp
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:48 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
Ah, those two legendary rock guitarists! I think there are a few compatibilities in between those two musicians. First of all, both are classically influenced musicians and composers, masterfully synthesizing classicism, jazz and rock. 2ndly, both of them have had this revolving door principle regarding their own bands, never a steady line up kept. Thirdly, both of them usually didn't rely on back up guitarists for sixties and seventies (but did so in eighties (and in Fripp's case, from that point on too)). oh, and both Crimso and Mothers are said to have their best recordings done in like 1973-4 ("OS"/"Roxy"/OSFA VS "LTIA"/Starless/Red") and all of them are viewed as valuable contributions to progressive rock. Oh yeah, Adrian Belew has worked with both of them.

What do you think sets these two apart? What are the main differences in the compositional and instrumental approach?


...Don't be an asshole... Enjoy them both!!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:27 pm 
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Who said i didn't?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:56 pm 
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Zappa & Fripp
2 of my favourites.
Thanks for the post.

I don't like the "olympic" judging of one music against another.
It always surprises me when posters get into that.
P/O vs ZPZ? Who cares? Franks music is being played!

Zappa Fripp
I've had the good fortune to have listened to both for about 40 years.

We've lived in a musically fertile time which has allowed us to hear them.
I tell people that being able to see & hear Zappa is like being able to say you saw & heard Bach, Mozart, Stravinsky, Coltrane.
Think of history and how few people got to hear great live music.

Zappa Fripp
Both have the ability to go from simple notes to a frenzy and take you with them.
Both go beyond the "normal" solo structure.
When other guitarists would have ended a solo, FZ & RF keep on going.
Both write beautiful & ugly music.
Simple & symphonic.
Both intelligent beyond music. Business & the world.

Big difference (not better or worse) to me is Fripp's ambient works.
Love to listen to his "soundscapes".

Other big difference.FZ wrote his own lyrics ( or had the kids help).
RF had band members write lyrics.

I have seen FZ & RF each a dozen times here in Toronto.
FZ always as Frank.
RF with KC (70s, 80s, 90s.00s, ProjeKts), solo ( small church frippertronics), David Sylvian, Peter Gabriel, League of Crafty Guitatists, League of Gentlemen.
and I saw him smile on stage. TWICE. but not in the same show.

Always great shows. Many sonic memories.

And 1 more similarity
Both have sisters ( Patrice Z & Patricia F)who wrote books about their famous brother.
Check out their respective careers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:53 pm 
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friday, november 10, 2006 • last updated 10:15 am pt

after 18 months, 4 seconds of sound to define windows vista
by allison linn, ap business writer

seattle -- some people spend 18 months working on a whole album, at microsoft that's how long it took to perfect just 4 seconds of sound

of course, this isn't just any 4-second clip; it's the sound that millions of computer users will hear every day, and perhaps thousands of times in total, when they turn on computers running microsoft's forthcoming windows vista operating system...to get just the right sound - clean, simple, but with "some long-term legs," according to microsoft's steve ball - the software maker recruited musician robert fripp

fripp, best known for his work with the '70s rock band king crimson, recorded hours of his signature layered, guitar-driven sound for the project, under the close direction of ball and others at microsoft, then, it was ball's job to sort through those hours of recordings to suss out just the right few seconds

fripp's involvement is not surprising; his occasional collaborator, brian eno, recorded sounds for windows 95... blah blah blah ....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:53 am 
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I like King Crimson's music very much, of course less than Zappa's :)
my favourite albums is the seria from 80's - Discipline, Beat, Three of the perfect pair and. These records with Talking Heads' "Remain in light" are very big step in evolution of popular music, I think the last one for such a big scale.
Of course, a big part of them is thanks to Adrian Belew with Zappa experience background.

Guitarists - the first thing is that Fripp has no sense of humour, which is very important in Zappa's music. Fripp is too intelectually influenced, he's too calculated and cold, what comes uot from his English character. But he's a wonderful guitarist and composer.
What joins these two guys music is that they take a lot from contemporary music, but in more "user-friendly" form.

As far as I remember well in one interview Zappa said that he doesn't know Fripp and King Crimson's music. Strange?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:06 am 
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yowza: I wish I was like you to see Zappa and Fripp so many times! I was born much too late - in 1972 and also in Communist block. I only saw one King Crimson's concert about 5 yers ago but with Pat Mastelotto and Trey Gunn and - it was vety big experience. I can't even imagine how big it would be to be at Zappa's concert :)
I had some dreams that I'm at Zappa's concert :) Mabye when moving in time will be discovered I'll do this


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:25 am 
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Interesting conversation I had with Adrian Belew about Fripp at a show here in Cincy -

I asked Adrian what it was like to work with Fripp because he was so .. well ...odd --

Adrian " Well , He's a real good friend of mine so I won't say anything against him but I can see where people get a weird idea of him. I remember going to a rehearsal and he ( Fripp ) told us all to unplug and sit there. Then he ( Fripp ) said we're going to rehears this piece ' silently '. I'm ( fripp ) going to clap my hands to start the piece - you will play it in your head and when you are all done . you will all clap YOUR hands.. AND IT BETTER BE AT THE SAME TIME !!!

During this conversation , Peter Frampton walked by , listened to us talking , and said to Adrian -' That's almost impossible ' and Adrain said something like ' Well , it took 4 tries but we did it.'

Then Peter & Adrian started talking old times - me standing there not even realizing they knew each other -- ah those backstage memories.

BUT... I can almost seeing Frank do the same thing with his band members.

But my fave KC lp was probably Lark's Tounge... & Islands...& Red ... & :wink:


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