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 Post subject: Zappa books
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:28 am 
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Currently reading "Zappa the Hard Way" by Andrews Greenaway, and I've read a few other Zappa books, including "The Real Frank Zappa Book" and one time had a hefty paperback called "Frank Zappa and the Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play" by Ben Watson. Can anyone recommend any other literature on Frank?


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:14 am 
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Electric Don Quixote: The Definitive Story Of Frank Zappa
Them Or Us
Zappa: A Biography

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:04 am 
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Dangerous Kitchen by Kevin Courrier.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:05 pm 
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I read Zappa The Hard Way twice just recently. Andrew did a nice job. Enjoyed it.

I posed this question on a different thread once, and didn't really get an answer. I have The Negative Dialectic Of Poodle Play, and do occasionally read a few chapters when I'm listening to those particular albums. My question is this. Are any of Ben Watson's other books worth getting, or are they all philosophy books?


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:03 am 
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Thanks for the kind words re. my humble little tome, Philostopher.

I would say Frank Zappa: The Complete Guide To His Music by Ben Watson is very readable.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:55 am 
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You're welcome Andrew.

Thanks for the recommendation! I'm currently reading Mike Barnes' Beefheart bio. Putting Watson's book on my next read list. I do enjoy Poodle Play, but was looking for something not quite that deep.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:20 am 
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Well worth the investment Uncle Philo' and written in plain english too :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:31 am 
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Didn't like that one. He has strong opinions, particularly on DHBIM I was very annoyed by that.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:41 pm 
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BBP wrote:
Didn't like that one. He has strong opinions, particularly on DHBIM I was very annoyed by that.
What did he write about DHBIM that is so annoying? Just wondering.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:53 pm 
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That it was a poor album with poor solo performances and a superfluous release: will check up the details but it's running late.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:42 pm 
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Here's an excerpt re. DHBIM from Watson's book: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XT4D ... =html_text

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:14 am 
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The Idiot Bastard wrote:
Here's an excerpt re. DHBIM from Watson's book: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XT4D ... =html_text


Link doesn't work for me (maybe for Europeans it will).

As I recall the book was similar to Negative Dialectics, but dropping the "everything FZ did was good" mindset he tried to maintain through most of ND. I glanced at this in the bookstore but didn't buy.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:54 am 
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Picked it up for you and am now getting upset at his bibliography: he includes Das Kapital by Marx for no reason whatsoever and calls it "The OTHER book that's as good as a Zappa record." The one other book he includes for no reason whatsoever is James Joyce's Finnegan's Wake. Why are people in Zappa biography land so inclined to give their opinion? It's why I like Courrier: he doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Ok, I kinda see what you mean.
It is like music writers, journalists and essayists finally produce too much material on everything that they end up giving opinions and judgements.
I have some books in French written by Guy Darol which are great, however there are some paragraphs mixing poetry, tastes, random thoughts, WWFZD, and even connections between things that seem to belong together.
So this can be become so irritating that I do not finish the book.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:18 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
The Idiot Bastard wrote:
Here's an excerpt re. DHBIM from Watson's book: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XT4D ... =html_text


Link doesn't work for me (maybe for Europeans it will).


Apologies - here's a screen-shot:


Attachments:
DHBIM.jpg
DHBIM.jpg [ 117.84 KiB | Viewed 236 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:59 am 
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There must be more, because that's pretty tame stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:06 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
There must be more, because that's pretty tame stuff.


Only the opening para is omitted, which is pretty factual stuff (band members, etc.). I really can't see anything objectionable about his comments on this album.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:19 am 
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The Idiot Bastard wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
There must be more, because that's pretty tame stuff.


Only the opening para is omitted, which is pretty factual stuff (band members, etc.). I really can't see anything objectionable about his comments on this album.


Agreed. I don't think he came down hard on the album. I'm sure I won't agree with every opinion he has, but that doesn't bother me. I have another problem.

I don't own a Kindle, and this book is out of print. I'll have to go used book shopping, and pay an inflated price. This one might have to go on the back burner for a bit. I am about to buy the new Chrome Dreams doc, Grim's movie, and I've already preordered Sun, Zoom, Spark. Malachi wants a PS4 for x-mas, and that's $400. I'll look this weekend, and see if I can find a good deal, but I'll probably have to wait on this one a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:51 am 
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Philostopher wrote:
...this book is out of print. I'll have to go used book shopping...


In case it helps, the book was first published by Omnibus Press in a CD sized edition in 1998 - with a slightly different title: The Complete Guide To The Music Of Frank Zappa.

Amazon UK seems to have copies: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0711969132

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Festival MOO-AH! 20/21 MARCH 2015
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Zappa music and much, much MOO-AH!
www.FestivalMoo-AH.com


Last edited by The Idiot Bastard on Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:55 am 
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Thanks! That will help in my search.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:21 am 
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Maybe I've remembered it wrong. I'll read it again and see what other things offend me about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:35 am 
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The only complete guide to Zappa music I need is the music itself. Unless we're talking recording details.

Publishing books about famous people is a great way to have a built in audience.
My next book will be called The Beatles, Pink Floyd, The Eagles, Elvis and Michael Jackson: An outsiders view of their lives and times with analysis and opinions about everything they've ever done, including wild speculation plus no photographs. 666 pages PUBLISHER:No Eye, Dear press c2014. All proceeds go to the author.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:20 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
The only complete guide to Zappa music I need is the music itself. Unless we're talking recording details.

Publishing books about famous people is a great way to have a built in audience.
My next book will be called The Beatles, Pink Floyd, The Eagles, Elvis and Michael Jackson: An outsiders view of their lives and times with analysis and opinions about everything they've ever done, including wild speculation plus no photographs. 666 pages PUBLISHER:No Eye, Dear press c2014. All proceeds go to the author.


Take out The Beatles, Elvis, and Michael Jackson, and I might read your book. I have this habit when I want to learn about a subject, I read about it. Sometimes, you have to subject yourself to other people's opinions in order to do so. You could also say that a book about fucking has a built in audience. I grew up before the internet, so we read books. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:35 pm 
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I read constantly. I sometimes have 3 or 4 books going on at once. 85 % of all music bio's I have read annoyed me due to speculation, incorrect info and/or gossip. Or lame analysis of the work and/or the subject's motivations. It particularly annoys me when an author latches onto one artist and makes a career out of analyzing that persons behavior and work. ie: Ray Carney writing about filmmaker John Cassavettes. Clinton Heylin with Dylan. etc.....

You like the Eagles ??? I read Don Felder's book but not because I like The Eagles.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa books
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:10 pm 
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I am not a huge fan of The Eagles, but I would love to read Don Felder's book. I do enjoy the documentary they just released recently. Glenn Frey's candor is refreshing to me. I realize The Eagles were a band, but Glenn and Don did keep the brand alive during those lean MTV years. Let's face it. Music is a business, as much as we would like to think otherwise. As opinionated as they are, I do enjoy reading music bios.


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