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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:11 am 
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The Torture Never Stops
Filmed Live at The Palladium, NYC, Hallowen 1981
created by FZ from the original Boggs-Baker/FZ MTV concert production.


edited, performed & music composed & conducted by Frank Zappa
with Ray White, Steve Vai, Bobby Martin, Tommy Mars, Ed Mann, Scott Thunes & Chad Wackerman.
-===========================================
First may I say I thank FZ for making every one of them a Happy Halloween.
In my world, and I quote FZ "Goblin Girl is to Halloween what Rudolf The Red Nosed Reindeer is for Christmas."

Hot Dogs and Artistic Integrity
- While the NY Mets and The NY Yankees welcome Pedro Martinez and Jaba Chamberlain to their starting rotations 26 years after Frank Zappa edited two 1981 Palladium Halloween Concerts for a VHS The Torture Never Stops the ZFTonce again takes action whereby protecting and serving the artistic intent of Frank Zappa the American Composer. The Torture Never Stops DVD has saved the "hard cores" well being from VHS Tape Oxidation From Hell. This DVD is once again a most heart welcomed maneuver by the ZFT. Not only have they as stated in the Liner Notes "transfered the 1" stereo video master" but they have gone several steps further adding some spifnificent bonus nuggets, once again as stated "YES, AND BUT ALSO" Discography, DVDography, Liner Notes, Credits & extas, A New Car". Inspector Clouseau has deciphered the DVD Nuggets to include audio/video bonus material featuring two songs from the Halloween shows previously not included, The YAWYI video and a Photo Gallery of 24 historic photos from Halloween 81'. If this were not enough the Liner Notes are written by then FZ Bass Player Scott Thunes and the amaray DVD case contains a bunch of treats one of which I could see many a NYC finest crazy type persons using come this Halloween. Now why you may ask I start this review out with a sporting analogy?
BEND OVER AND SPREAD 'EM! Here comes my . . . BULLET!!
-While the American Idol unreality trends of today seemingly have programmed adolescent brains appreciation for art into some sporting event where they not only swim the 200 meter Olympic trials and but also push the kill or be killed winning or loosing agenda. Ladies and Gentleman let's get ready to rumble. The appreciation of art, more so today than every, is predominantly governed by TV production values and cell phone voting systems but thinking back to 1981 on that fateful night of the first live concert broadcast done by MTV, a TV company that in one moment made history but in the long haul revolutionized the downtrend of artistic integrity I can only say that Scott Thunes reiterates that even in 1975, if I may extrapolate some liner notes, " I was too young to 'get' that 1975 concert. Frank sat on a stool and played solos a lot, if I recall, and the concert to my 'normal' mind, hit-less." Folks you are never too young or too old to dilate beyond a commercially programed mentality. There is always hope if you just open your eyes and ears. Commercialism knows where to put the cork.
Trendmonger Halloween 81' Costume
-While we did not get to see my 1981 Halloween Cosutume where I wore a womans size 3 disco spandex jump suit I am here to reiterate once again that I was interviewed by MTV at the Palladium less than two hours prior to the 2 concerts. MTV used that interview footage to promote the midnight show that was once again a world premiere live event of any live concert event for MTV named Zappa Halloween 81. In that interview I was asked what was my favorite song and if I thought Frank would perform it that evening. I answered that most Zappa fans did not come to hear a hit song but I could sing them one, so as the story goes I conducted NYCs finest crazy type persons into a street version of Stick It Out the German verse. Yes right underneath the Palladium marque that is spifnificent photo #24. While FZs Stick it Out was not played that evening one participant under my guidance "Artis The Spoon Man" made a special guest appearance on stage with FZ during that Halloween engagement. One other special guest Al Dimeola made his appearance with the 81' Zappa Band just a short time later at The Ritz and I for one, self vacuumed cleaner hosed and all am keeping my eyes and ears open for ZAPPA RITZ 81' as an official release.
Now as far as the DVD itself
-There is no need to spoil the surprise whereby getting into some detailed review description of each and every song. Oh I knew you'd be surprised but may I point out that this DVD is visually and audio wise wonderful,wonderful and wonderful. The arrangements performed here is ever clear. While I tend to shy away from favorite, once again as if favorite was some sporting event, the sound of this band, even when there are a few minor performance pitch errors in a small vocal line or small whammy bar guitar line overall the timbre of the 1981 Palladium arrangements are very thick and where I can not only listen to but now watch over and over, without any concern for oxidation and or stickiness VHS tape dropouts.
FZ Guitar
-FZs Les Paul with it's previously documented and researchable circuitry and effects rack played through a three amp Carvin, Marshal and Carvin Acoustic configuration. This would be the near end of FZs usage of The Les Paul where Frank would soon reintroduce the Hendrix Strat a day later leading to his predominant usage of modified strat bodies by performance guitar. I appreciate FZs compositional approach to guitar no matter what axe he is using but that Les Paul could not only take off like a rocket ship but could ride on a cloud of silk. No sense getting into each tonality here but shit FZ Les Paul. Two days and counting to ZPZ Phase III and I wonder if this guitar could be reporting for duty.
Bass & Drums
-Chad's acoustic setup and Thunes round sound in 81' delivered a magical/fabrical landscape that was warm. No digital synthetics. Don't get me wrong, 84 & 88 offered FZ wonderful VAMPS and or rhythmic sonic landscapes to solo over but those Simmons digital drums had severe limitations in dropout in amplitude.
Impossible Guitar
-Yes The Italian Virtuouso Seve Vai. Also can't help mysef I have to like those D'Addario stickers.
Keyboards & Horns & Rythem Guitar
-Tommy's configuration similar of FZ with his Les Paul is my pick as to why I very much like FZs choice for arrangements of this tour. Bobby Martin has some very nice keyboard and electric piano parts but his vocal abilities are what shines. While Bobby did not bring the arrangement offerings of Peter Wolfe his vocals and added Horn work that marries wonderfully with Tommy's keyboards leading into FZs solo in Alien Orifice is one example of something really special. With Ray White be it his rhythm work on his Anniversary Strat or a really tasteful Blues Scat solo Ray's contributions speaks with integrity and but also new car or not Steve Vai's rhythm work while unconventional be it strumming or whammy rhythms are uniquely/supersonically very much a part of these arrangements. He may have been young and had some blue hair but just as he cut it all off for Ritz 81 sometimes you don't need the shred fest with a hair brush.
Percussion
-Not only do we get all the traditional mallet and percussive work one is accustom to in what I will call prime Zappa arrangement techniques but Ed Mann usage of syndrum and Bob Dylan vocals speak volumes. Goodnight Montgomery Burns wherever you are.
Vocals -
-For me this is "the tour" where Frank had it all together. He was teaching these guys to stretch out into those doo wop harmonizations and Frank was vivid on stage as ever as can be seen in the traditional Halloween number The Torture Never Stops . Not that prior FZ bands never went down that road but live the harmonies were really there. While the 84 band had more arrangements that focused on that doo wop method it was the 81 band that harmonically delivered it with the so called clarity of timbre mixing in with all instrumentation. Don't worry if you don't agree with me you can come back on Sunday for the Gong Show.
The 1981 Band Compositionally
-While The Torture Never Stops has plenty of viable contemporary songs as heard on the YAWYI LP the touring band is not about HIT SONGS. Oh there was noting wrong with Riding Like The Wind but looking at Frank conduct Stritly Genteel with the Palladium Chandelier overheard, what I see and hear this is what Zappa is about for he was an American Composer. It is my opinion that fans that want to appreciate FZ as an American Composer should separate themselves from their Sporting Event TV Cell Phone Voting ideology.
Excentrifugal Forz
-Put the cellphones down,
use your eyes and ears,
when the performance is over
just as you can see during the rolling credits,
thousands of NYCs Finest Crazy Type Persons

I encourage you to join me in
standing, whistling and screaming
ZAPPA.........ZAPPA...........ZAPPA.......

and all the rest of whom for which
To whensonever of partially indeterminate
Bio-chemical degradation
Seek the path to the sudsy yellow nozzle
Of their foaming nocturnal
Parametric digital whole-wheat inter-faith
Geo-thermal terpsichorean ejectamenta)

FZ - MUDD CLUB
You Are What You Is
Official Release #34


BTW I wonder if Bill Boggs ever took the nose and glasses costume off.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:00 pm, edited 11 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:20 am 
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Ok review. Not very surprising though.

It is just at the point where you say
Trendmonger wrote:
It is my opinion that fans that want to appreciate FZ as an American Composer should separate themselves from their Sporting Event TV Cell Phone Voting ideology.

that I get the urge to quote Zappa in the Trendmongerian riddlesaurus way, and ask:

WHO ARE THE BRAIN POLICE ?

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http://www.myspace.com/kirnehness


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:28 am 
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HJ wrote:
Ok review. Not very surprising though.

It is just at the point where you say
Trendmonger wrote:
It is my opinion that fans that want to appreciate FZ as an American Composer should separate themselves from their Sporting Event TV Cell Phone Voting ideology.

that I get the urge to quote Zappa in the Trendmongerian riddlesaurus way, and ask:
WHO ARE THE BRAIN POLICE ?

Now here is the question.

Are the Brain Police those that make the decisions of all that TV & Radio Programming/Commercialism or fans who listen to and promote thinking outside that mind control commercialism agenda.

DZ has a humorous way of angling the question as to why FZ is not represented. Just look at that Beyonce' quote. Yes there is nothing wrong with Beyonce' but who has been keeping Zappa off the TV & Radio programing for over 40 years. Be it Thunes with his commentary on HIT-LESS or my MTV interview where I stated in general fans don't come to see hit songs the point is if TV & RADIO won't play Zappa anyone can appreciate art outside the box of commercialism.

THey only need an opportunity to open their eyes and ears.

Yes I may be as you say a Trendmongerian riddlesaurus but I have been thinking and promoting outside the box of commercialism ideology for a very long time.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:36 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
HJ wrote:
Ok review. Not very surprising though.

It is just at the point where you say
Trendmonger wrote:
It is my opinion that fans that want to appreciate FZ as an American Composer should separate themselves from their Sporting Event TV Cell Phone Voting ideology.

that I get the urge to quote Zappa in the Trendmongerian riddlesaurus way, and ask:
WHO ARE THE BRAIN POLICE ?

Now here is the question.

Are the Brain Police those that make the decisions of all that TV & Radio Programming/Commercialism or fans who listen to and promote thinking outside that mind control commercialism agenda.

DZ has a humorous way of angling the question as to why FZ is not represented. Just look at that Beyonce' quote. Yes there is nothing wrong with Beyonce' but who has been keeping Zappa off the TV & Radio programing for over 40 years. Be it Thunes with his commentary on HIT-LESS or my MTV interview where I stated in general fans don't come to see hit songs the point is if TV & RADIO won't play Zappa anyone can appreciate art outside the box of commercialism.

I didn't get the part about DZ and Beyonce, as I didn't research into what quote you were talking about.

So I'll make it easy, and give away the ánswer to my question right here:

YOU

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http://www.myspace.com/kirnehness


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:37 am 
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HJ wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
HJ wrote:
Ok review. Not very surprising though.

It is just at the point where you say
Trendmonger wrote:
It is my opinion that fans that want to appreciate FZ as an American Composer should separate themselves from their Sporting Event TV Cell Phone Voting ideology.

that I get the urge to quote Zappa in the Trendmongerian riddlesaurus way, and ask:
WHO ARE THE BRAIN POLICE ?

Now here is the question.

Are the Brain Police those that make the decisions of all that TV & Radio Programming/Commercialism or fans who listen to and promote thinking outside that mind control commercialism agenda.

DZ has a humorous way of angling the question as to why FZ is not represented. Just look at that Beyonce' quote. Yes there is nothing wrong with Beyonce' but who has been keeping Zappa off the TV & Radio programing for over 40 years. Be it Thunes with his commentary on HIT-LESS or my MTV interview where I stated in general fans don't come to see hit songs the point is if TV & RADIO won't play Zappa anyone can appreciate art outside the box of commercialism.

I didn't get the part about DZ and Beyonce, as I didn't research into what quote you were talking about.

So I'll make it easy, and give away the ánswer to my question right here:

YOU


The Beyonce' topic is DZ commentary contained within the ZPZ TDF DVD and if a Zappa fan thinks I am some Brain Police as compared to some TV/Radio Black List well I'll tell ya agree with me or not hundreds of thousands have heard my dedication to FZ on David Letterman and MTV.
I know FZ appreciated that and anyone else can go fuck themselves.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:06 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
- While the NY Mets and The NY Yankees welcome Pedro Martinez and Jaba Chamberlain to their starting rotations 26 years after Frank Zappa edited two 1981 Palladium Halloween Concerts for a VHS The Torture Never Stops the ZFT not only protecting and serving by saving the hard cores well being from oxidation from hell have now in a most heart welcomed maneuver not only have as they say in the Liner Notes "transfered the 1" stereo video master" but added some most spifnificent as the ZFT says "YES, AND BUT ALSO" Discography, DVDography, Liner Notes, Credits & extas, A New Car" including audio/video bonus material featuring two songs from the Halloween shows previously not included, The YAWYI video and a Photo Gallery of 24 historic photos from Halloween 81'.


Bloody hell. That was one sentence!
Worse, that was the first sentence!
Trendy, nobody can fault your enthusiasm, but you need an editor something fierce.

On to pertinent information. You mentioned FZ's guitar tone. Some people here said that FZ applied a heavy flanger effect to his guitar on the original VHS release. Is that true of the DVD too?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:20 am 
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Chris_Ekman wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
- While the NY Mets and The NY Yankees welcome Pedro Martinez and Jaba Chamberlain to their starting rotations 26 years after Frank Zappa edited two 1981 Palladium Halloween Concerts for a VHS The Torture Never Stops the ZFT not only protecting and serving by saving the hard cores well being from oxidation from hell have now in a most heart welcomed maneuver not only have as they say in the Liner Notes "transfered the 1" stereo video master" but added some most spifnificent as the ZFT says "YES, AND BUT ALSO" Discography, DVDography, Liner Notes, Credits & extas, A New Car" including audio/video bonus material featuring two songs from the Halloween shows previously not included, The YAWYI video and a Photo Gallery of 24 historic photos from Halloween 81'.


Bloody hell. That was one sentence!
Worse, that was the first sentence!
Trendy, nobody can fault your enthusiasm, but you need an editor something fierce.

On to pertinent information. You mentioned FZ's guitar tone. Some people here said that FZ applied a heavy flanger effect to his guitar on the original VHS release. Is that true of the DVD too?


I totally agree with you and that is why when I did all my writting for Warren Cuccurullo I had an editor who was prominent in English grammar. Cyndi Glass who started Warren's Official Fanzine PRIVACY and has continued with his Official Website is a nice small town gal from Indiana. I appreciate all her help over the years. Anyhow this is a NG where we hopefully cut each other a little slack but if I need an editor for this type of review well I can arrange that. Hopefully Warts N' All you get the point. Regardless of a Commercial Blacklist of FZ for over 4 decades FZ and some people appreciate that there is notes involved in a compositional manner that is true to the artist and not bending towards the metaphorical bullet of commercialism.

Talking about grammar though do these fans think that FZs flanger was produced after the live event for the grammar seems that way. I just think this is how it was played and what songs were chosen and how it sounds in the stereo mix as opposed any memory of a house mix from the many concerts I saw in 1981. I like the results live and on tape/CD/DVD alot.

Yes FZ used lots of flanger or some sort of space warp effect. There was so much going on with that guitar setup/ effect and Amp setup. The Rocket Ship that was all equed was a subtle explosion in certain sections. Now how can an explosion be subtle. Well a rocket ship taking off out of nowhere so to speak. Perfectly designed. Gail's brother Midget Sloatman was Frank's Road Guitar Tech for that tour. If DZ chose to implement this setup wow that would be a wonderful surprise for ZPZ Phase III.

Effects settings can always be changed but was really interesting about that effect was how the envelope of the sweep changed depending on what part of the neck he was playing on, how long the note was held and what position the pickup switches were in or what EQ or Tone settings were used. Some may have considered it overkill of an effect where in how many guitar solos were used in the context of some of these smaller Halloween Show productions that were edited from the two full shows, not that I ever thought so but over the coarse of the entire Halloween run it certainly did not seem that way. I saw all the shows and never did I say Frank is overkill with a given effect.

If I could only choose one guitar to hear Frank play while a hard choice this would be it. The Les Paul with the 1980 and 1981 rig setups. Only one Rig give me 1981.

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_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:38 pm 
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i prefer the footage from these 2 shows that DOES NOT include the flanger effect that FZ added to the TTNS mix.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:46 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
i prefer the footage from these 2 shows that DOES NOT include the flanger effect that FZ added to the TTNS mix.


Are you talking about Video Footage or Audio Footage and clarify please. Are you saying that FZ added the Flanger Guitar Effects on a TTNS MIX after the concert.

There were 3 amps and I believe FZ normally miked each for recording. The Flanger could have been on one amp and just more up front on some of the MIXes on some of those video productions made from the two shows. I hear plenty of Flange on this DVD but not overdone so your perception is a bit puzzling as it may imply no flanger. It would be interesting to ask Midget Sloatman or Marque. As I said I don't remember the over use of effects standing out from seeing the shows but it could have been a balanced mix of several amps and so many guitar settings over so many songs over so many shows .

The House MIX that concert goers heard at the shows and each product can have a different MIX but on any section of any production do you know as fact it indeed FZ added a Flanger effect after the performance or is it just how much Flanger we hear in the MIX. I well understand the video effects in Whipping Post on one of those productions made from the two Full Shows but is that Flanger really all added post live.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:00 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
The Beyonce' topic is DZ commentary contained within the ZPZ TDF DVD and if a Zappa fan thinks I am some Brain Police as compared to some TV/Radio Black List well I'll tell ya agree with me or not hundreds of thousands have heard my dedication to FZ on David Letterman and MTV.
I know FZ appreciated that and anyone else can go fuck themselves.

I am not making comparisons. How did you get that idea? I don't do these sporting-related things. I was making an absolute statement: You are the brain police. You try again and again (exemplified by your condescending statement about how fans should "separate themselves from their Sporting Event TV Cell Phone Voting ideology") to police every fan's thoughts into your perception of what a "real" Zappa fan should think. Pure Stalinism. I do not doubt your dedication, I just highly doubt the clarity of your mind.

So I guess I'll have to go fuck myself, to use your poetic phrasing. BTW: Should I do that along with anybode else except FZ, or just the world population minus the hundred of thousands who watched some stupid commercial talk show? Or along with all Zappa fans minus you? Maybe I'll rather make love to somebody else.

About guitars: I favor the SG over the Les Paul any day. (Gee, was that "Sporting Event TV Cell Phone Voting ideology"? If so, your guilty as charged yourself.)

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Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
i prefer the footage from these 2 shows that DOES NOT include the flanger effect that FZ added to the TTNS mix.


So JAYP are you saying that FZ added the Flanger Effects after the concert. There were 3 amps and I believe FZ normally miked each for recording. The Flanger could have been on one amp and just more up front on some of the MIXes on some of those video productions made from the two shows. I hear plenty of Flange on this DVD but not overdone so your perception is a bit puzzling as it may imply no flanger. It would be interesting to ask Midget Sloatman or Marque. As I said I don't remember the over use of effects standing out from seeing the shows but it could have been a balanced mix of several amps and so many guitar settings over so many songs over so many shows .

The House MIX that concert goers heard at the shows and each product can have a different MIX but on any section of any production do you know as fact it indeed FZ added a Flanger effect after the performance or is it just how much Flanger we hear in the MIX. I well understand the video effects in Whipping Post on one of those productions made from the two Full Shows but is that Flanger really all added post live.


FZ used that many amps on stage for just that..... recording different sounds at the same time to be used later in the mix

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The raw mix on the full show #2 video has NO flanger effect on the guitar solos.
THIS, Trendy, is one of the prime examples of what you are missing because you are so against unofficial product.

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HJ wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
The Beyonce' topic is DZ commentary contained within the ZPZ TDF DVD and if a Zappa fan thinks I am some Brain Police as compared to some TV/Radio Black List well I'll tell ya agree with me or not hundreds of thousands have heard my dedication to FZ on David Letterman and MTV.
I know FZ appreciated that and anyone else can go fuck themselves.

I am not making comparisons. How did you get that idea? I don't do these sporting-related things. I was making an absolute statement: You are the brain police. You try again and again (exemplified by your condescending statement about how fans should "separate themselves from their Sporting Event TV Cell Phone Voting ideology") to police every fan's thoughts into your perception of what a "real" Zappa fan should think. Pure Stalinism. I do not doubt your dedication, I just highly doubt the clarity of your mind.

So I guess I'll have to go fuck myself, to use your poetic phrasing. BTW: Should I do that along with anybode else except FZ, or just the world population minus the hundred of thousands who watched some stupid commercial talk show? Or along with all Zappa fans minus you? Maybe I'll rather make love to somebody else.

About guitars: I favor the SG over the Les Paul any day. (Gee, was that "Sporting Event TV Cell Phone Voting ideology"? If so, your guilty as charged yourself.)


I went as far as to say if I could only hear one, not that that is THE BEST. I do very much like the 79' Band as heard on the Shut UP LPs a whole lot and just about any time FZ picked up a guitar and SG is definitely part of m deep appreciation for Z playing guitar. I am not perpetuating a voting mentality of FZs Guitars or solos but more so just talking about that Les Paul within the context of this film.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jaypfunk wrote:
The raw mix on the full show #2 video has NO flanger effect on the guitar solos.
THIS, Trendy, is one of the prime examples of what you are missing because you are so against unofficial product.


Are you talking about the MTV Broadcast where you do not hear so much Flanger and still what does that prove if Flanger was actually used live or added for some VHS production? A Live House MIX or whatever that was sent to Star Fleet Radio or MTV does not guarantee that FZ was not performing with Flanger.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:13 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
The raw mix on the full show #2 video has NO flanger effect on the guitar solos.
THIS, Trendy, is one of the prime examples of what you are missing because you are so against unofficial product.


Are you talking about the MTV Broadcast where you do not hear so much Flanger and still what does that prove if Flanger was actually used live or added for some VHS production? A Live House MIX or whatever that was sent to Star Fleet Radio or MTV does not guarantee that FZ was not performing with Flanger.


the MTV video of show #2 has NO flanger in the mix.

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jaypfunk wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
The raw mix on the full show #2 video has NO flanger effect on the guitar solos.
THIS, Trendy, is one of the prime examples of what you are missing because you are so against unofficial product.


Are you talking about the MTV Broadcast where you do not hear so much Flanger and still what does that prove if Flanger was actually used live or added for some VHS production? A Live House MIX or whatever that was sent to Star Fleet Radio or MTV does not guarantee that FZ was not performing with Flanger.


the MTV video of show #2 has NO flanger in the mix.


Ok Fair point, so you enjoy that aspect of a Flangless GUITAR MIX more but because it is not in the MIX does not mean FZ was not using it live and the DVD sounds far better than my VHS or DVD-R. Maybe FZ added the Flange afterwards you could be totally right but do we really know because of a Broadcast TV or Starfleet radio MIX. Flange or no flange this DVD sounds great and better than the TV Broadcast.

I think the overall sound of this DVD is way more bitchen than the MTV MIX I have on VHS and copied to save it from dropout hell onto DVD-R.
This DVD will get many hours of playing. If the ZFT ever release the Full Shows with the Late Show Broadcast MIX and or whatever MIX is from SHow #1 I would welcome that.

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FZ "Read It And Weep"
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Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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I remember an interview with Steve Vai where he said that Zappa could drastically change the tones of live guitar recordings in the studio. I seem to remember him saying specifically that Zappa did some perverted things to Vai's tone on Teenage Prostitute. But I can't find the interview now.


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Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
The raw mix on the full show #2 video has NO flanger effect on the guitar solos.
THIS, Trendy, is one of the prime examples of what you are missing because you are so against unofficial product.


Are you talking about the MTV Broadcast where you do not hear so much Flanger and still what does that prove if Flanger was actually used live or added for some VHS production? A Live House MIX or whatever that was sent to Star Fleet Radio or MTV does not guarantee that FZ was not performing with Flanger.


the MTV video of show #2 has NO flanger in the mix.


Ok Fair point, so you enjoy that aspect of a Flangless GUITAR MIX more but because it is not in the MIX does not mean FZ was not using it live and the DVD sounds far better than my VHS or DVD-R. Maybe FZ added the Flange afterwards you could be totally right but do we really know because of a Broadcast TV or Starfleet radio MIX. Flange or no flange this DVD sounds great and better than the TV Broadcast.

I think the overall sound of this DVD is way more bitchen than the MTV MIX I have on VHS and copied to save it from dropout hell onto DVD-R.
This DVD will get many hours of playing. If the ZFT ever release the Full Shows with the Late Show Broadcast MIX and or whatever MIX is from SHow #1 I would welcome that.
That got me to see what the difference in the sound on BBSNK dvd and the cd punky s whips runs right along side till the mix makes the cd about a second fast and buy the end of the solo about 2 fast.i think the guitar on the cd sounds better imo.
just mute the tv then the cd :wink:

Edit Sorry not got TTNS yet :x

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Yeah, not a fan of the flanger effect. But, no biggie. Disappointed that Sinister Footwear was not in the extras, but that is offset by the inclusion of City of Tiny Lites. So overall, I'm pretty pleased.


Last edited by Hometown Sausage Jamboree on Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Just about the lamest review I've ever read.

Jeezuz......

:roll:

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Help, I'm a Rock wrote:
Just about the lamest review I've ever read.

Jeezuz......

:roll:
I hate dolphins wrote:
Help, I'm a Rock wrote:
(First Post) Nice place you have here.


Thanks, now go home. :twisted:

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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When I came here today I expected a collection of diverse customer reviews on this new release only to find another Trendwanker-back&forth-thread. Very sad.

How boring and superfluous can this forum get?

Th.

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Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
The raw mix on the full show #2 video has NO flanger effect on the guitar solos.
THIS, Trendy, is one of the prime examples of what you are missing because you are so against unofficial product.


Are you talking about the MTV Broadcast where you do not hear so much Flanger and still what does that prove if Flanger was actually used live or added for some VHS production? A Live House MIX or whatever that was sent to Star Fleet Radio or MTV does not guarantee that FZ was not performing with Flanger.


the MTV video of show #2 has NO flanger in the mix.


Ok Fair point, so you enjoy that aspect of a Flangless GUITAR MIX more but because it is not in the MIX does not mean FZ was not using it live and the DVD sounds far better than my VHS or DVD-R. Maybe FZ added the Flange afterwards you could be totally right but do we really know because of a Broadcast TV or Starfleet radio MIX. Flange or no flange this DVD sounds great and better than the TV Broadcast.

I think the overall sound of this DVD is way more bitchen than the MTV MIX I have on VHS and copied to save it from dropout hell onto DVD-R.
This DVD will get many hours of playing. If the ZFT ever release the Full Shows with the Late Show Broadcast MIX and or whatever MIX is from SHow #1 I would welcome that.


i never ever said he wasn't using it live. all i said was that i prefer the mix on that video without the flanger effect. stop reaching.

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jaypfunk wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
The raw mix on the full show #2 video has NO flanger effect on the guitar solos.
THIS, Trendy, is one of the prime examples of what you are missing because you are so against unofficial product.


Are you talking about the MTV Broadcast where you do not hear so much Flanger and still what does that prove if Flanger was actually used live or added for some VHS production? A Live House MIX or whatever that was sent to Star Fleet Radio or MTV does not guarantee that FZ was not performing with Flanger.


the MTV video of show #2 has NO flanger in the mix.


Ok Fair point, so you enjoy that aspect of a Flangless GUITAR MIX more but because it is not in the MIX does not mean FZ was not using it live and the DVD sounds far better than my VHS or DVD-R. Maybe FZ added the Flange afterwards you could be totally right but do we really know because of a Broadcast TV or Starfleet radio MIX. Flange or no flange this DVD sounds great and better than the TV Broadcast.

I think the overall sound of this DVD is way more bitchen than the MTV MIX I have on VHS and copied to save it from dropout hell onto DVD-R.
This DVD will get many hours of playing. If the ZFT ever release the Full Shows with the Late Show Broadcast MIX and or whatever MIX is from SHow #1 I would welcome that.


i never ever said he wasn't using it live. all i said was that i prefer the mix on that video without the flanger effect. stop reaching.


I realize what you said,I am not reaching as to pigeon hole you into some possible error on live performance but more so I just wanted to know what opinion was on this Flanger issue in regards to if it may be a post live thing. Some of the context of discussion here make me question MIX or post live effect usage.


I do remember Flanger sticking out as a noticeable effect on some tunes on one if not both of the TV productions that aired from my memory on USA Network and WNEW Network and both of those productions were post tour edits.

Peace

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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