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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:17 am 
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Hello Gentlemen and Ladies. :D

I can see from this forum you don’t suffer fools easily. I can also see that anyone using Zappas name / image / sounds without permission gets slated. Obviously Zappas views on bootlegging and theft of his music are well known, I understand why. I know he was furious at people using his name to make money.

I am a big Zappa fan, obviously not as big as some of you, but I love Zappa and his music. I only have 30-40 and vinal and about 40 CD's so i know thats not up with most of you.

I was keen to make a tribute to Baby Snakes, Frank and Bruce Bickford using clay animation, Obviously to do this I would need to use the Baby Snakes song sound track.
I initially thought that as there were 50 odd versions of Baby snakes out there on U-Tube etc that it was fine.
I had (incorrectly assumed) that fans dancing to Zappas music etc was tolerated as it spread the word and brought Zappa to a new audience, even if it did infirnge copyright.
It looks like maybe I was wrong… I am seeing that some of the videos are being removed or muted (copyright infringment). But then others are staying. Is it that maybe Gail and the Zappa estate allow some videos to remain if they are positive and Zappa styled?

If so can I submit my video to the Zappa estate to see if it can stay?

I have deliberately not posted my video here as I know you guys frown upon that.

Best wishes

(puts on asbestos underpants, to avoid the flames, but hopes he wont need them) :oops:

Cheers


S


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:55 am 
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The only reason I can think of why some videos with copyright infringement are still on YouTube, is because there are just too many to track them all down. Maybe some get buried in the lower pages, beyond where the lawyers and alerters (= people who spend their days searching the Web looking for copyright infringement, then report it to the damaged party. Yes they exist.) can find them. Not to mention the fact that it'll all be back in a month.

I know that the deletion of fan sites with lyrics, and deleting of vids with kids dancing to his music, has not been a very good image move for Prince. It truly seems like it's something artists have to live with, now that copyright infringement is done so easily that many people will do it without even noticing.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:08 am 
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Flapper wrote:
If so can I submit my video to the Zappa estate to see if it can stay?

Gail@zappa.com May the gods smile kindly upon you.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:14 am 
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You know when you ask a question and you already know the answer….

You guys have made me think about this in a different way. Lets face it im screwed.

I very much doubt she even gets to read the emails. She must get 1000 a day from crack pots and nutters! Remember most of us Zappa fans are slightly unhinged.

Drawing attention to my Video may just push me higher up the hit list…

I agree with BBP, sometimes artists should allow infringements, even if it does not bring in money it brings in publicity.

I’m sad…. But I am happy that you guys were kind. I was expecting a beating!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:16 am 
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GZ does actually read her e-mail. However I have no idea what it takes to get a usable reply from her.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:45 pm 
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Just don't ask her what she had to eat.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:24 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
Just don't ask her what she had to eat.


I think i may be missing somthing here?!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:32 am 
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It's in the FAQ section, topic started by Cal.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:41 am 
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Flapper wrote:
You know when you ask a question and you already know the answer….

You guys have made me think about this in a different way. Lets face it im screwed.

I very much doubt she even gets to read the emails. She must get 1000 a day from crack pots and nutters! Remember most of us Zappa fans are slightly unhinged.

Drawing attention to my Video may just push me higher up the hit list…

I agree with BBP, sometimes artists should allow infringements, even if it does not bring in money it brings in publicity.

I’m sad…. But I am happy that you guys were kind. I was expecting a beating!!!


It is worth a try... I remember when she used to answer the phone at Barfko Swill to take orders (who knows, maybe she still does?) a very long time ago (B.I.A.W.K.I., "before internet as we know it").

Gail does post in this forum sometimes too...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:10 am 
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BBP wrote:
It's in the FAQ section, topic started by Cal.



I laughed so hard a tiny little bit of urine escaped my body. That was a funny thread. I have chipped in, mainly to get a responce if she ever does reply.
:lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:58 pm 
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Gail does answer emails, at least some of the time. I suggest you state your question clearly, and mention that you wish to purchase her permission to use the music. You never know, it might just work. :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 pm 
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Tell her that you already posted it. That may get a quik response. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:47 am 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Gail does answer emails, at least some of the time. I suggest you state your question clearly, and mention that you wish to purchase her permission to use the music. You never know, it might just work. :roll:



Purchase! Purchase! It's a tribute, I'm not making a single penny (or cent, as they are worth about the same these days) from it. Its just a tribute to Frank and Bruce (Bickford) from a fan. I'm not making and selling T-Shirts with his image and selling them at profit, nor am i copying his music for a profit. Infact although my animation is in high def i deliberatly used a low quality Baby Snakes MP3 so there would be no point in copying the soundtrack from my Video to get Baby sakes, not that there are'nt 30,000 versions on bit torrent...

I have no idea how much the rights would be, but i suspect we are talking £1000's here not just $50 and a gentelmens agreement. I dont want to use it to make money i just want it on the web to show other fans clay animation and Franks Baby Snakes is still here 30 years later.

Ronny's, I think i know what you are going to say; That, I am thief just like all the boot leggers and T-Shirt printers. I have just been thinking about it. If you said that i think you may be right. The difference is in the heart i suppose...

I have just made this out of my love of two ledgends in their feild. I guess my tribute is a violation of copyright as much as anyone else. -But i'm not making any cash!

I guess i'll post it and remove the sound track when told to. :cry:

Zoot allores... I really wanted to make Dirty Love my next animation, maybe i should speak to Bruce Bickford it may appeal to his nostalgic side and he could sway GZ. But then i guess she would not want to allow me to use it even if she did like it, as it may start a presedent where people think they can steal Franks work for THEIR profit, which i know he hated....

I think too much... :cry:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:54 am 
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Flapper wrote:
Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Gail does answer emails, at least some of the time. I suggest you state your question clearly, and mention that you wish to purchase her permission to use the music. You never know, it might just work. :roll:

Ronny's, I think i know what you are going to say; That, I am thief just like all the boot leggers and T-Shirt printers. I have just been thinking about it. If you said that i think you may be right. The difference is in the heart i suppose...

No, I think that Gail would expect some sort of payment. She's been quoted many times saying that if people want to use Frank's music, they have to pay. Personally, I think what you're doing is cool.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:11 am 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Flapper wrote:
Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Gail does answer emails, at least some of the time. I suggest you state your question clearly, and mention that you wish to purchase her permission to use the music. You never know, it might just work. :roll:

Ronny's, I think i know what you are going to say; That, I am thief just like all the boot leggers and T-Shirt printers. I have just been thinking about it. If you said that i think you may be right. The difference is in the heart i suppose...

No, I think that Gail would expect some sort of payment. She's been quoted many times saying that if people want to use Frank's music, they have to pay. Personally, I think what you're doing is cool.


Yeah, and I can see her point…

I wonder if some fan tributes are allowed. This superb Animation (which I must stress is not mine – I wish it was) has been on U-Tube now for almost a year, had ½ a million hits and has a 5 star rating.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=j2nJn6rZd ... re=related

Sorry I'm going round in circles here. :oops:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:12 am 
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Hi Guys,

Final post on this matter. Just did some deep web crawling (5 hours) on this matter and I have come to a decision.

I’m not going to attempt permission, not because I condone stealing, bootlegging, copyright theft or any other criminal activity. But because reports on the web show that ZFT goes all guns blazing after anyone doing anything without paying, even if its not taking Zappas recorded work directly or as an innocent fan tribute.

I think the best example of this appears to be the Zappanale court case going through the German courts at the moment.
This appears to be a German tribute festival set up not for profit by a fan club that has for the last 18 years held Zappa style concerts. Zappa (in life) himself described the concerts as “great”.

It appears ZFT fronted by GZ is suing her own nephew (who was playing in it), who is quoted as saying something like she is crazy and that she is not representing Zappa’s words from his deathbed “play my music”.

The German Courts will decide in the next few weeks if she has a right to stop the German fans from having a tribute concert without her direct say so on each act (+ of coure $250,000 each time, which the non profit fan club does not have)... The German fan club have said this is all about money and in no way has anything to do with credibility of Zappa’s image… - As he never objected in life.

With the above said, I’m happy for my little tribute to sit on the web and not be discovered by the ZFT for a while. When they do discover it and threaten legal action I will remove the soundtrack. I’m then told that after I have removed it, they may try to sue me for using a moustache in his style, but they are on dodgy ground on that one, I guess the German court case will prove that either way.

I’m really sad that things are like this. (according to the 10-20 articles I have read across the web).


All the above is based on the articles I have read. It may be incorrect. Therefore none of the above can be taken as a stated fact. - See i dont want to get sued either! :cry:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:03 am 
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Goodbye Flapper, I wish you all the strength in the world. It is the same background that made me crawl back from writing a Zappa-thesis. However this forum is not what it used to be and I know it's very well possible that this post means you're banned for life without it showing in your account. Just like they did to dear Jimmie.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:25 am 
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No!!! I would hope this forum is better moderated than that. I have not said anything that’s not in the news, nor have I unfairly slandered anyone.
This forum is in America right? Freedom of speach, etc... That would be a sorry state if the forum breaks the constitution of America.

Anyway...

Look at Elvis, Jimmi Hendrix, even the Beatles -their legacy lives on through the, lyrics, fan tributes, symbols, web sites, and minor infringments of rights, lets hope Zappa’s work lives on. I think for Zappa the line is coming (legaly) and it may end up being a little more mellow than it is now.

I guess if i do stop posting you know the central scrutiniser has stepped in...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:15 am 
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I wish it was different... with the last update, several "upsetting" topics have mysteriously disappeared, along with certain "members". Moderation has been strict since on the forbidden topics. It's worthy of its own distopia book.

I'm honestly thinking of packing my bags and leave... it's just that I've been a member since 2002.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:08 pm 
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BBP wrote:
I'm honestly thinking of packing my bags and leave...


Same thoughts here.

Th.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:25 am 
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I was listening to Joes Garage last night. Oh the irony. - :)

But hey im still here, maybe the balance is coming back...


I understand you guys and your reluctance to leave, the respect you have here will take a while to build up again. However, you seem like decent guys so it wont take long for the guys on ug l y ra di o etc to welcome you! 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:55 am 
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Now now, dear Flapper, I know I'm more masculine than most of the men here, but that doesn't mean that I'm a guy. In fact, I'm not. I'm of female persuasion. (And to all the single guys out there: yes, I'm straight and single, and on the lookout!)

Besides, it's about more than respect. It's about the many friends I have here, and the many, many enjoyable discussions and games we have had. This place has a great history. Unfortunately its future is nowhere near as bright.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:06 am 
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Oh, c'mon. This Forum is pretty much unmoderated and totally freewheeling outside of non-ZpZ tribute bands. If they have a law firm tracking down the violators, it's no surprise that they are removed from this site. That is not censorship, this is business, no matter how misguided one deems it. Ya simply don't order a pepsi in the coca-cola cafeteria. Who knows, maybe there are legal implications as well.

This site permits direct criticism of the ZFT/Gail, etc. Ya gotta give them that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:11 am 
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Flapper wrote:
It appears ZFT fronted by GZ is suing her own nephew (who was playing in it), who is quoted as saying something like she is crazy and that she is not representing Zappa’s words from his deathbed “play my music”.


Do you have a link?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:03 am 
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brainpang wrote:
Flapper wrote:
It appears ZFT fronted by GZ is suing her own nephew (who was playing in it), who is quoted as saying something like she is crazy and that she is not representing Zappa’s words from his deathbed “play my music”.


Do you have a link?


Oh lord... I'll see what i can find. it took 5 hours of trawling last time.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 88,00.html

and

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 53,00.html

most anoyingly the news has changed on the sites, everyone is jumping for joy that in Germany Gail lost the court case and does not own the rights to moustaches... - :o

I didnt make it up, i have no axe to grind. -It was just what i found at the time... :)


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