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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:58 am 
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Zappa.com WHAT'S NEW
June 24, 2009

We're celebrating . . .
Today is Jeff Beck's Birthday! Yay!
And it is the 30th Anniversary of the
final recording sessions for
Joe's Garage Acts I, II, III



Yes the celebration begins
http://www.zappa.com/whatsnew/

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FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:56 am 
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Wow. Just watched the link to the stage production of JG. While I'm happy that anything of Frank's is getting attention these days so long after his death, I think this stage play just bites the big one. Good god. The guy who plays Joe can't sing, and he looks pathetic up there. The choreography is silly most of the time. The band is shockingly average, especially given all the talk over the years about faithful reproductions of Frank's music. So, thanks for the link Trendy, but I would rather not have seen this.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:01 am 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Wow. Just watched the link to the stage production of JG. While I'm happy that anything of Frank's is getting attention these days so long after his death, I think this stage play just bites the big one. Good god. The guy who plays Joe can't sing, and he looks pathetic up there. The choreography is silly most of the time. The band is shockingly average, especially given all the talk over the years about faithful reproductions of Frank's music. So, thanks for the link Trendy, but I would rather not have seen this.

Now I know why DZ won't let Trendy's beloved Ben play Guitar...The vocals were bad and I think the Scrutinizer has an accent? The guys from Chicago do a much better job on Guitar playing Joes Garage(Packard Goose)..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTMzyMKMeh0

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:25 pm 
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At first I thought it was just me again. But honestly – I find the PG performance clip very very horrible. Unlistenable and unwatchable. Is that a bad joke or what? I can't believe this is officially approved.

Is this the goal of the ZFT? To pull FZ's work down to amateur level?

And @Trendmonger: Don't try to explain to me again that this is unexpected perfection and even better than the original.

Th.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:19 pm 
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Thinman wrote:
At first I thought it was just me again. But honestly – I find the PG performance clip very very horrible. Unlistenable and unwatchable. Is that a bad joke or what? I can't believe this is officially approved.

Is this the goal of the ZFT? To pull FZ's work down to amateur level?

And @Trendmonger: Don't try to explain to me again that this is unexpected perfection and even better than the original.

Th.


I don't need to explain nothing to you because I well realize at times
you really are a Thinman with no soul and no brains.

I will add my 2c though.

Sit 'n spin until you rot
On the Cosmic Utensil


I have not seen the play but I have spoken to people that were
not only involved with Frank Zappa's Original recording but also consulted with on the play.
I am not even going to share their commentary because it is people like you
who don't even deserve to hear it. Make whatever the fuck you want to make out
of what the ZFT have provided for I have long ago learned some people around here
to put it mildly are just not my kinda people.

I know I would have liked to have seen that production. Unfortunately I was not able
to make it to California but from what I know about the production I am proud of that
entire cast and everyone involved.

Now as far as the choreography
It is my opinion that many Zappa fans are clueless souls when it comes to choreography.
To me the award speaks for itself.

Image

Jennifer Lettelleir Bests Choreographer L.A. Weekly Theater Awards this week in Los Angeles.
Congratulations to the very deserving, fabulous, gorgeous, beloved and classy director and performer of the art of Dance.
Here are some of her remarks:

"First of all I'd like to thank the late Frank Zappa for being the brilliant and hilarious composer that he was.
Joe's Garage was my first Zappa album. I've been a fan for a long time, so this was like a dream come true."

"I'd like to thank Gail and the Zappa Family Trust for allowing us to do the show. It was an honor."

"Thank you to Pat Towne, Michael Franco and Charlie Otte for bringing me on to this project and believing in me."

"Thanks to Martha Demson and the Open FIst Theatre Company for opening your arms to me."
"Thank you to our talented designers for creating such a beautiful space for us to play in."

"Thanks to our kick ass crew for working so hard - Marjorie Knight and Monica Dibiasio - you are the best stage managers ever!"

"Thanks to the killer musicians - I loved dancing to you guys every night!"

"To the cast - thank you for bringing my choreography to life and for working so hard.
I loved being right there with you guys singing and dancing. Thanks for all your sweat and personality."

"Thanks to my husband Dave for letting me disappear into Joe's Garage right after our honeymoon. You are the best."

"I fucking LOVED doing this show. It was an experience that I will carry in my heart forever."

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FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:01 pm 
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I must say that I kind of liked it. I think the Joe character has a bit of Belushi madness over him - having him running around buttnaked singing in Ricky L. style could have been just as fun as Ben's take on Zomby.

The ensemble dancing is hard to judge as the clip mixes in a lot of scenes form other songs. So I guess you should have been there. I don't think it is that bad.

(But "due dilligence" - nah, a good pro off-broadway band; but thats fine.) Great that it was performed.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:06 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
I have not seen the play but I have spoken to people that were
not only involved with Frank Zappa's Original recording but also consulted with on the play.
I am not even going to share their commentary because it is people like you
who don't even deserve to hear it.


This is the kind of elitist and megalomaniac attitude that fosters fascism. Look in the mirror. Phweew!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:02 pm 
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Awards are like assholes (seams like everyone has one) Shit Trendy there is awards shows every week and this was for Choreography! That has nothing to do with Franks music.. And the point was of ZFT saying that the music (I said music) should be done as close to Franks as possible. What I just heard is not even in the same ballpark. So NOW blame it on a shitty recording (They released it so it must be good!)

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:28 pm 
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ronny's noomies wrote:
Wow. Just watched the link to the stage production of JG. While I'm happy that anything of Frank's is getting attention these days so long after his death, I think this stage play just bites the big one. Good god. The guy who plays Joe can't sing, and he looks pathetic up there. The choreography is silly most of the time. The band is shockingly average, especially given all the talk over the years about faithful reproductions of Frank's music. So, thanks for the link Trendy, but I would rather not have seen this.
noom's, music wasn't the focus of the evening's entertainment; seeing a large mob of live actors on a small stage in a small venue like that was quite impressive; 150 or 200 seats, maybe less, the scrutinizer puppet/apparatus was 30-40 feet in the air & stayed off to one side... shockingly average is a bit harsh, the band kept a low profile, rarely spotlit even for solos, knew the music, had the beat down, all the riffs were there, didn't try & execute an exact album version of the songs, the singers didn't copy the album vocals, tcs was intentionally different from zappa ... choreography on that video loses 99% of the impact; knowing the story was not a spoiler for the stuff they did on stage; you kinda let the music stay in the background, didn't watch the band much either

for the record, here's my review from last oct:


...small place, 100 seats, well-designed, very friendly staff, stellar sound system and lighting

tremendous 1st-rate impressive intense serious performance, from the opening scrutinizer to the end; didn't notice the guy way up in the rafters operating the central scutinizer until the end, it appeared to be motorized, very well choreographed

the sound was stellar, plenty loud; the band never overwhelmed the performers or the hall, well maybe just a c-hair over-the-top when they let loose during packard goose, musta been 4 gutiar players cranking it at one point, but hey, it was the 2nd-last imaginary guitar solo of the night so they went for it Image

mary's splashy emergence was fucking hilarious, coulda sworn she spewed a mouthful of ejectamenta as she emerged from under father r's frock right on cue [but it don't bother mary], maybe it was the lighting; the girlz come out wearing rather fashionable knee pads, bob bob bobbing along with their hand in the box

the vocals were spot-on, it was immediately apparent these people were actors as well as vocalists, they all had cordless mics strapped on and they knew how to project every word, from the 2nd row the facial expressions and body movements were well-executed... haven't seen a lotta wet t-shirt contests in my day, last night was hysterical, mary definately earned the 50 bucks; lucille, probably one of the toughest tracks on the album to pull off, was brilliant, the guitar twang was perfect - '59 goldtop ¿ - the vocals didn't try to imitate the album, worked quite well, same with sy borg, really appropriate treatment...nice fast version of keep it greasey, great solos all night

audience was a diverse assortment of long-time fans, their companions, and some who appeared to be unfamiliar with the material but still reacted positively even as joe's gets more & more distressed and miserable until he reaches the catatonic stage, very moving

capping off the performance with peaches was a great touch, thanks to all for a highly entertaining evening

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:02 pm 
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If the common sense here is that a performance like this is of a quality that meets FZ-standards and is the right treatment of the legacy, then I am at the wrong place here as a Zappa fan and will gladly leave. There is no room for discussion on this topic for me. I think the performance is extremly horrible and this can't be changed by an award.

And if the ZFT will tolerate Trendmonger as their inofficial spokesman – I wish them good luck.

Th.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:06 am 
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HJ wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
I have not seen the play but I have spoken to people that were
not only involved with Frank Zappa's Original recording but also consulted with on the play.
I am not even going to share their commentary because it is people like you
who don't even deserve to hear it.


This is the kind of elitist and megalomaniac attitude that fosters fascism. Look in the mirror. Phweew!


I am just sick and tired of all these fans around here that seem entirely lost
where they have the audacity to think I am some Official ZFT spokesperson.
I am not an Official ZFT spokesperson.
Gail is not feeding me propaganda.
I have never uploaded any audio or video content whatsoever
in the history of the internet so on a side note all those ZPZ youtube clips with
Ben Thomas have nothing to do with me. On any given day Gail may approve or
disapprove of anything I say on my own just like anyone else around here.

So this is one occasion where I may have had a little conversation.
It doesn't matter what the fuck I say or do not say.
Are some fans still trying to figure out what was on those little
pieces of vault tape included in the spine of The Dub Room Special CD.
No one on the INSIDE said anything to me about the vault tape pieces.
Please let's not let this turn into another fiasco like that.
I am sure that is what some people around here have an agenda about.
Making me out to be why some and I repeat some forum users have
been crabby old bitches long before Gail reopened the Vault Doors
or ZPZ was out heir touring. Some people remain to be crabby fanatical bitches
and some people like me remain fans that are forever the optimist.

Maybe the conversation I had was 5 second or 5 minutes.
In all sincerity, and I will repeat that, In all sincerity
I will just let all the people who have been involved in the play
or seen the play enjoy it for what it was or speak on behalf of the play for themselves.
So big fucking deal I had a little conversation about that and I will just dwindle
off into the twilight realm of my own secret thoughts on that.
I will just let all the people who have been involved in the play
or seen the play enjoy it for what it was or speak on behalf of the play for themselves.

Yes once again , In all sincerity I have not seen the play and this is one of those cases
where I don't want to get involved and let all the negative folks
speak for who they are without me pushing them. SO many Zappa
Newsgroup users take sides on issues against the Trendmonger Stance.
Fuck the Moses Walking Cane agenda on this topic.

I am taking no public stance on this. I have not passed any critical analysis
on this play so fuck all you people that are still playing the Trendmonger Fanaskeptasaureous Game.
regardless of what you may think mine or anyone else feelings are about the play.
I have not seen the play and the two video clips thatof which I have seen
is in celebration of Jeff Beck's birthday and the 30th year anniversary of the final recording sessions
of the Joe's Garage project. I will keep my feelings about that in my own secret world.
I just don't want to be part of the same celebration party as some of you folks.
Sort of like going to a party and enjoying the goodies without having
to talk with all the Yentas who show up.

Gail was very nice to make two little videos and share that with the community.
Thank you Gail. I am really trying to separate any form of third party commentary
and on this occasion. I feel 100% that not a single letter should be repeated.
The only thing I want to say is Thanks To everyone involved in the play.
Why should I say anything else so forum members who have never seen the play
only have something else to gather around and fester their hostility towards me.
Fuck that hostility.

The play speaks for itself.
Fuck all those fans with the pen in their hands that show up giving extreme ciritcism
like a Washington House Or Senate kinda guy that never shows up because he is too busy
taking turns with little sissy boys snorting detergent and plooking each other.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:29 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
I am just sick and tired of all these fans around here that seem entirely lost
where they have the audacity to think I am some Official ZFT spokesperson.
I am not an Official ZFT spokesperson.

Read carefully:
Thinman wrote:
And if the ZFT will tolerate Trendmonger as their inofficial spokesman – I wish them good luck.

You are making yourself the spokesman – and that is the problem.

Th.

P.S.: You started this topic by posting redundant information once again (in an unneccessary large and colored fontstyle) and provoke reactions. And now you complain about the reactions because they don't fit into your view of the world? You must be a masochist.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:15 am 
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I, for one, kinda enjoyed it.

I always thought that Joe's Garage was primarily a comedy with a serious point to make. I always imagined if Thing-Fish was on Broadway, it would be over the top.

So I would see this, and maybe buy the vid if its out.

I don't compare a live show to a produced record.

(and, ya wanna know a secret, I saw Frank 5 times and things didn't always go acording to plan)

I always thought Joe's Garage would be a little goofy - geez, a wet T-shirt contest, that ain't high art.

I can appreciate Thinman's characterization of the playing, but it was a stage production fer chrissakes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:14 pm 
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I always think of Joe's Garage, Thing-Fish, Civ Phaze III, etc as radio plays, perfect just the way they are and designed to engage your imagination. I already have images in my head of what the Scrutinizer and Sy Borg look like. And the choreography in my head is much better than the cliche dance moves in evidence on those video clips. (Side note to Trendy -- awards are like job titles: pretentious, self-aggrandizing, and meaningless).

That production of JG is not even in the ballpark. It's in the slaughterhouse.

Logic is lost in your cranial abattoir -- John Lydon

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:36 pm 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
noom's, music wasn't the focus of the evening's entertainment; seeing a large mob of live actors on a small stage in a small venue like that was quite impressive; 150 or 200 seats, maybe less, the scrutinizer puppet/apparatus was 30-40 feet in the air & stayed off to one side... shockingly average is a bit harsh, the band kept a low profile, rarely spotlit even for solos, knew the music, had the beat down, all the riffs were there, didn't try & execute an exact album version of the songs, the singers didn't copy the album vocals, tcs was intentionally different from zappa ... choreography on that video loses 99% of the impact; knowing the story was not a spoiler for the stuff they did on stage; you kinda let the music stay in the background, didn't watch the band much either

Slimey, of course you are correct that the music isn't the whole enchilada. But the play is based on music, which I assume runs continuously throughout the whole production. I realize that there's a lot more to the show than that one clip, so maybe I was a bit too critical based on that. What was there, didn't do much for me. I was hoping to really like it.

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 Post subject: Re: joe's garage
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:27 pm 
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I thought that clip was pretty good.
would have liked the see the show.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:30 pm 
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I thought it looked okay. Hopefully they'll have a production that will come as close as 600 miles and I'll be unable to go.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Slimey, of course you are correct that the music isn't the whole enchilada. But the play is based on music, which I assume runs continuously throughout the whole production.


You're correct in that assumption, mostly: it ran through most of the production.

A creative decision was made early on, a wise one I think, that what works as a 3-LP set of music does not necessarily work as a stage musical verbatim, and that for this to be successful it would have to find a way to reach theater fans who had never heard the record or maybe even Zappa at all previously, not just the Zappa fanatics that were expecting a recreation of the records. So of course arrangements were tailored to this end and what we wound up with I hope at least captured some of the mad spirit of JG while being completely true to the story FZ had to tell, in both music and narrative.

My hope is that if it comes to your neck of the woods in the future, and we're all hoping it does no matter where you are, you'll put aside your preconceptions and give it a chance. We had four months of sold-out shows with standing ovations every night, unanimously positive reviews from both local and international press, the stamp of approval from the Zappa family as well as the enthusiastic support of Warren Cuccurullo, Tommy Mars and Arthur Barrow, who came to see it more than once. And what I found personally gratifying: so many people that had never heard JG before, coming back again and again.

I bought Joe's Garage in 1979 when I was in high school, when it first came out. I saw him play many times and I love his music deeply. It was a real thrill and honor to be involved in this almost 30 years later.

"Shockingly average" strikes me as very funny, somehow...isn't that kinda like "extra medium"?


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 Post subject: xxx
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:11 pm 
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xxx

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:25 am 
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KRosser wrote:
"Shockingly average" strikes me as very funny, somehow...isn't that kinda like "extra medium"?

Or "jumbo shrimp?"

Actually, I think "shockingly average" summed up his sentiment quite nicely. He'd been living with the album for thirty years - as we all have - and he expected something that lived up to his imaginary guitar solos. What he saw didn't, and he was shocked.

But we have to be careful here. We can't confuse cheepnis with cheapness. Unless you're Peter Sellers, seeing something on TeeVee isn't the same as being there.

Personally, I trust Mr. Slime's review. If he says it's not shitty, then it's gotta be bitchen (and maybe a little tough and nifty on the side).

In any case, thank you for your service to Zappadom.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:29 am 
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MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
[ seeing something on TeeVee isn't the same as
being there.



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"I like to watch TV"
Chance the Gardener

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BsiHydrT6U

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:39 am 
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MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
In any case, thank you for your service to Zappadom.


You're welcome!

Listen, it doesn't bother me that someone would see the promo clip and not like it. I believe Mark Twain was spot-on when he said, "I don't know the key to certain success, but I know the key to certain failure is to try to please everyone"

I'm just sayin' - if we get a chance to do this again, and if you get a chance to come, please do because I saw hundreds of Zappa fans that feel like yourselves come in with their arms crossed and their "prove it to me stares" and come out falling all over themselves to tell me how much they loved it.

Re: the extended "imaginary guitar solos" - obviously, the one in Packard Goose was cut in favor of having the dramatic characters break the 'fourth wall' and trade 8 bar sections with the band, walk up into the audience, etc. - only part of that was shown in the clip. In context, it was always one of the high points of the show. I got to do two of the extended guitar solos, one in each act - "On The Bus" and "He Used To Cut The Grass", where there was supporting dramatic action going on at the same time and were probably more along the lines of what you'd expect. After Tommy Mars saw the show he came up to me and said, "Frank would have been proud to hear you play his music". Arthur Barrow then followed to explain to me why that compliment was a big deal but he didn't need to.

I think at this point it's probably best that I drop out and let the chatter go where it will without having someone from the show around feeling compelled to defend it, but I'll just add one more thing - the irony of responding to 'internet forum' critics based on a performance of "Packard Goose" has not been lost on me.

Your friend in Zappa-dom

Ken


Last edited by KRosser on Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:51 am 
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KRosser wrote:
MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
In any case, thank you for your service to Zappadom.


You're welcome!

I believe Mark Twain was spot-on when he said, "I don't know the key to certain success, but I believe the key to certain failure is to try to please everyone"
............
I'm just sayin' - if we get a chance to do this again, and if you get a chance to come, please do because I saw hundreds of Zappa fans that feel like yourselves come in with their arms crossed and their "prove it to me stares" and come out falling all over themselves to tell me how much they loved it.
................................
After Tommy Mars saw the show he came up to me and said, "Frank would have been proud to hear you play his music". Arthur Barrow then followed to explain to me why that compliment was a big deal but he didn't need to.


Your friend in Zappa-dom

Ken


While I am sure Mark Twain had his own set of critics searching
for a Packard Goose that flourished between November 30, 1835 – April 21, 1910
I am sure he was fortunate to not have the slum dogs of the internet .
Some of these Zappa fans truly look as if their eyes have been burned out
by Fanatical Want of Zappa in their own prefect vision of what they want Frank Zappa
to be.

Be it IF the production ever makes it's way to Broadway the Hard Way
passing through Florida Missouri, Redding Connecticut , a place somewhere
along the way where Mark Twain may have had his hair cut, stopped for a coffee,
contemplated The Calender and possibly even spent a considerable amount of time
in any given location advocating the wearing of Dark Clothes
or if it should be so fortunate to directly receive some serious backing
that would enable the production to get to NYC without
serious holdback for the payment of escalated bridge and tunnel tolls
and but also all those ever so special union fees
the theater goer only need apply to have an open mind.

I remember well over a decade ago some small NYC production attempted to dramatize
Joe's Garage. I entered with an open mind knowing it was a small Off Broadway Theater low budget production.
They had the record playing throughout , handed out those plastic glasses with the big over sized nose to those in the audience.
It was really cheap. I can honestly say I am grateful that production had no longevity.
I ran into two of NYC Finest Crazy Type Persons at the show, Janet The Planet Planet who is
married to Denny Walley and Jack Conklin a long time member of FZs Canarsie Contingent so
if anyone ever needs a third party review on that go ask them.

What is obvious having not even seen the Open Fist Theatre Company Production
is the detailed choreography. It is nice that you comment on some of the musical arrangement changes
that were done and this always seems to be the norm of many theatrical productions.
Once again not seeing there is no way I can give a critical analysis on the play but
from my perspective all official media is something that has thoroughly raised
my radar hoping a live viewing opportunity comes my way.

Some purists may ask if any musical changes would be made to future productions
and while that may or may not be something that is overall the prime feasibility quotient
for any future production I think it is fair to say FZ never had a formal Broadway Score
so I would keep an open eye and ear to Patrick Towne & Michael Franco's vision.
May I add I certainly put more faith in those friends of mine that enjoyed the show as opposed to poor symbolic
Zappa.com Forum User references that don't even look as enthused as Jamal Malik character
before or after he fell into the shit so to speak.
Image


If the show ever makes it's way to NYC I will gladly be there with an open mind
but until then the Splashmagazine vid gave us an inside look into the production company
general view of this play and I find that quite nicely accentuates the clips Gail Zappa has provided.

Joe's Garage - Splashmagazine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QjXDF2BKKM

Be it IF the production ever makes it's way to Broadway the hardway
passing through Florida Missouri or Redding Connecticut the theater goer only need
apply to ave an open mind.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:01 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:28 pm
Posts: 2626
Location: in the tiny dirt somewhere
KRosser wrote:
[...]I'll just add one more thing - the irony of responding to 'internet forum' critics based on a performance of "Packard Goose" has not been lost on me.

Excellent...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:35 pm
Posts: 1261
Location: Ohio
Trendmonger wrote:
Some of these Zappa fans truly look as if their eyes have been burned out
by Fanatical Want of Zappa in their own prefect vision of what they want Frank Zappa
to be.


Hello, Pot? This is Kettle. You're black.

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