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 Post subject: re: yo
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:37 pm 
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yo, dweez ...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:09 am 
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Before this topic gets a bit too heated I want to reiterate that I not only
have supported Mike & Bryan for decades but that the TONE issue is a matter of taste
and objective criticism. Regardless what the bass setup is Bryan does some interesting things to provide
a backdrop for Keneally to do what he does. I know they can make this arrangement sound much better
and that the two musicians could "Lock In" a bit more definitively if Bryan improved his tone and attack.
While a fidelity recording would obviously be one such way without changing anything
I am quite familiar with Bryans style and this is one time I think it would sound better if he
modified that tonal palate a bit. For those that need some outside criticism look into his first audition with Steve Vai.
It's all documented on The Life Of Bryan. This is just one arrangement of so many great things Bryan has done
where I feel that similar way Vai had once criticized and by no means is this a Black Thursday.

If any given fan loves this arrangement good for you enjoy that but I feel it is my right
to look at the composition and stripped down arrangement with due noted criticism.
I am not the Witchfinder General I just am looking for a different bass tonal palate in this arrangement.
These striped down arrangements can be fun in a given platform but as we can see the
crumbs the pigeons flock to create the frenzy of wanted food substances more than the
master chef who created the composition left us as a model of artistic integrity.

Certainly I am not the first person to notice that Brian's finger style of playing at times lacks attack
for certain songs. You put this style in this arrangement and I think some processing and playing with a pick is
what's needed to round it out. There are all given levels of processing for any given effect and there is a big difference
with a little and extreme and I have always suggested a little such as minor reverb setting and some phase.

None of this above desire or criticism makes Bryan out to be the bass player from some elementary school
or that his performance here is bad. I have supported Bryan as an artist countless times publicly and directly
encouraged him to make solo records many years before he released his first project and I could not be more happier
in the results of his latest Thanks In Advance CD/ To Nothing DVD.
If you don't have it yet I suggest getting this.

http://www.bryanbeller.com/tiapresale.html

I have absolutely no problem with the Bass tone and basic tracking
of Bryan's composition "Greasy Wheel" as seen below.
As Joe Travers says "Put that in your pipe and smoke it"

Bryan Beller - "Greasy Wheel" Basic Tracking
:arrow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGTMTMbv-zc

http://www.bryanbeller.com/literature/l ... an16a.html
http://www.bryanbeller.com/literature/l ... an16b.html
http://www.bryanbeller.com/literature/l ... an16c.html


Trendmonger wrote:
I have nothing bad to say about Mike Keneally & Bryan Beller
but this arrangement does not define Fantastic to me.
I would certainly be willing to hear this arrangement recorded properly
but while the video is clear and the musicianship is seemingly good the audio
and arrangement leave me yearning for so much more.

I do think in the moment of these Keneally/Beller Acoustic shows it s a nice piece
that is done more so in fun than bringing out the artistic intent but unfortunately
this arrangement leaves me yearning for so much more. I really think Mike & Bryan
can find a different song in the Zappa catalog that may fit better for these shows.

For Mike & Bryan it's a nice walk in a given park. The pigeons seem to enjoy the crumbs.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:45 am, edited 17 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:24 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
Is there at least one other person here, who agrees with Trendmonger's assessment? Otherwise, he may have to conclude there is something wrong with his own perception, if he is the only person who hears it that way.

Someone?
Anyone?????
C'mon, we know Trendmonger is the final word on musical exellence, otherwise he wouldn't keep endlessly repeating it after each and every post that disagrees with him.
There must be at least one...mustn't there?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:14 am 
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Trendy: I like your stuff about "objective criticism". Far out to be believed. But your:

"These striped down arrangements can be fun in a given platform but as we can see the
crumbs the pigeons flock to create the frenzy of wanted food substances more than the
master chef who created the composition left us as a model of artistic integrity."

is soooo condescending that it makes me sick. I think it is horrible that you listen to ZPZ live and
let their sounds float into your ears. It is just like throwing pearls to some animal.

The more you write, the less it seems that you actually know and understand about music.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:48 am 
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HJ wrote:
Trendy: I like your stuff about "objective criticism". Far out to be believed. But your:

"These striped down arrangements can be fun in a given platform but as we can see the
crumbs the pigeons flock to create the frenzy of wanted food substances more than the
master chef who created the composition left us as a model of artistic integrity."

is soooo condescending that it makes me sick. I think it is horrible that you listen to ZPZ live and
let their sounds float into your ears. It is just like throwing pearls to some animal.

The more you write, the less it seems that you actually know and understand about music.


Mike Keneally left his Zappa Obsessive stage quite some time ago.
This stripped down arrangement is a form of feeding the pigeons in layered Conceptual Continuity.

Anyone who knows anything at all about Mike Keneally or my views of Mike Keneally should know
that I am not being condescending on who is doing the feeding or who is doing the eating
but this arrangement is crumbs compared to the composers composition.

Now if Mike Keneally ever wants to precede his performances of this arrangement with an announcement
"It's Time To Feed The Pigeons" I hope he goes for it. If I was there in that audience would I be offended?
No way , I would say Mike thanks for the crumbs and eat it like it was the remnants of a crumbled up saltine cracker.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:49 am 
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Ok back to topic again.. :lol:

FANTASTIC ECHIDNA'S ARF BY MIKE KENEALLY & ED PALERMO BIG BAND!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kezYIT1-YHU

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:57 am 
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unica wrote:
Ok back to topic again.. :lol:

FANTASTIC ECHIDNA'S ARF BY MIKE KENEALLY & ED PALERMO BIG BAND!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kezYIT1-YHU

I am quite familiar with some of Mike's guest spots with Ed Palermo BB.
I video taped two sets each of MKs performances with BFD & guesting with
EPBB at The Bottom Line in NYC in 1996.

I was perched in the bottom line spot light rafter with Mike Harris who was doing live
projection fro BFD. This location was about 20 feet fro the stage but up in a spotlight porch.
While I had seen hundreds of shows there this was a unique perspective and little to no video from
the now closed venue ever captured that perspective of any live band. I was generous enough to pay for
not only all the Hi-8mm tapes but the required recording fee to the owners of the club. Mike could not afford to do so back then
so it was my pleasure to do it for him for his documentation purposes. I procured all master tapes to Keneally.
They are in HI-8mm Stereo Format so this may be why much of these masters never
made it to the web. I had made a backup safety in VHS and that I have since riped to DVD-R.
I do watch it occasionally to get a perspective on what was done back then.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:08 am, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:59 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Oh come on now it is not all that difficult to hear what is lacking in that bass tone.
All that slapping, buzz and flat dull sound is from playing without a pick and it lacks roundness …

This has nothing to do with whether a pick is used or not which again states that you have no clue what you are talking about. And this is exactly how I would describe Pete Griffin's bass sound, which I don't like either. But you will have a totally different opinion in that case I'm sure …

Th.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:12 am 
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Thinman wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Oh come on now it is not all that difficult to hear what is lacking in that bass tone.
All that slapping, buzz and flat dull sound is from playing without a pick and it lacks roundness …

This has nothing to do with whether a pick is used or not which again states that you have no clue what you are talking about. And this is exactly how I would describe Pete Griffin's bass sound, which I don't like either. But you will have a totally different opinion in that case I'm sure …

Th.


I think you should have a conversation with Steve Vai on where at times Bryan Beller
not using a pick lacked attack and the recommended processing would also help .
But then again Steve Vai told me personally that I inspired his writing
so there is probably little you would agree with what Steve Vai had to say on this issue.

I do not blankly omit bass players that d onot use a pick. It's not a disease with a blanket given to the American Indians.
I do like lots of what Bryan Beller does this is just one of those times in this arrangement where I feel some elements are lacking
and I feel 100% confident Mike & Bryan can do better achieving a better harmonic relationship
in this arrangement.

I'd say "Ashes To Ashes" if you ever had a clue as to what that Steve Vai composition means,
of how he dedicated that unreleased composition to FZ and how my reaction of hearing him perform that live
inspired an entire creative period for him but then again a Thinman has no flesh.

Pete Griffin's Bass
My YCFOSA recording sounds fine to me.
Pete delivers.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:00 am 
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I read part of one of Namedropper's posts. Now I need to go to the store...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:35 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
I am quite familiar with blah blah blah blah


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:10 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
But then again Steve Vai told me personally that I inspired his writing
so there is probably little you would agree with what Steve Vai had to say on this issue.

Steve Vai is a very, very friendly person.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:34 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Thinman wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Oh come on now it is not all that difficult to hear what is lacking in that bass tone.
All that slapping, buzz and flat dull sound is from playing without a pick and it lacks roundness …

This has nothing to do with whether a pick is used or not which again states that you have no clue what you are talking about. And this is exactly how I would describe Pete Griffin's bass sound, which I don't like either. But you will have a totally different opinion in that case I'm sure …

Th.


I think you should have a conversation with Steve Vai on where at times Bryan Beller
not using a pick lacked attack and the recommended processing would also help .
But then again Steve Vai told me personally that I inspired his writing
so there is probably little you would agree with what Steve Vai had to say on this issue.

I do not blankly omit bass players that d onot use a pick. It's not a disease with a blanket given to the American Indians.
I do like lots of what Bryan Beller does this is just one of those times in this arrangement where I feel some elements are lacking
and I feel 100% confident Mike & Bryan can do better achieving a better harmonic relationship
in this arrangement.

I'd say "Ashes To Ashes" if you ever had a clue as to what that Steve Vai composition means,
of how he dedicated that unreleased composition to FZ and how my reaction of hearing him perform that live
inspired an entire creative period for him but then again a Thinman has no flesh.

Pete Griffin's Bass
My YCFOSA recording sounds fine to me.
Pete delivers.



I am genuinely interested to know more about the period of creativity that you inspired.
Can you be specific?
Cheers


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:36 am 
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Quilt wrote:
I am genuinely interested to know more about the period of creativity that you inspired.
Can you be specific?
Cheers

Here is the basic story.
Steve Vai was having a laundry list of emotional scars in his life around the time of working and touring his Sex & Religion CD.
You can read a bit more detail of those scars on his website.
One common scar we all share in our own way was the loss of FZ. There are two moments in time where the loss of
FZ hit me like a ton of bricks. I shared those moments with Steve and he later told me my story
was an inspiration to his creativity muse at that time and I believe that was sometime in 1994.

Firstly I had leanred of FZs passing when I had received a phone call from John Nelson
of The Meridian Arts Ensemble. A short time after I was driving around in my car with all the windows open
and all the natural ambient noises that one may not pay much attention to were as clear as ever.
While I did not see coke cans flying with cows over the moon a calm peace was in the air
and it felt like a spiritual sign to me.

Secondly I was at a Steve Vai concert for his Sex & Religion Tour. Thunes was on bass.
I sat directly behind Steve Vai's family Lodge Center. Most of this concert was so loud and inaudibly painful but when
he played an as of now still unreleased song dedicated to FZ "Ashes To Ashes" I never cried so hard in my life.
From the opening note to the conclusion I was balling away like a child who was scolded by their parent.
All alone in our room crying as hard and feeling helpless as you never had but that moment is healing.
Steve Vai provided that room where in death there is life.
It was a total release point of accepting the loss of FZ. I told the preceding most touching incident to Steve's family after the show
and about a month or so later I shared a more detailed story with Steve. Steve digested that story for a period of time and later
told me how it all inspired him becoming his muse of a new mode of creativity of whatever he was then working on then
which I assume is several songs from Alien Love Secrets such as Die To Live & Tender Surrender.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:12 am 
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Cool.
Thanks for sharing.

Quilt


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:15 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
But then again Steve Vai told me personally that I inspired his writing


I get it now. That would explain why Vai's music is so horrible.


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 Post subject: Re: fantastic inca roads
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:41 pm 
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just imagine:

Trendmonger wrote:
I have nothing bad to say about dweezil zappa & pete griffin
but this arrangement does not define fantastic to me.
I would certainly be willing to hear this arrangement recorded properly
but while the video is clear and the musicianship is seemingly good the audio
and arrangement leave me yearning for so much more.

I do think in the moment of these zappa/griffin acoustic shows it's a nice piece
that is done more so in fun than bringing out the artistic intent but unfortunately
this arrangement leaves me yearning for so much more. I really think dweezil & pete
can find a different song in the zappa catalog that may fit better for these shows.

for dweezil & pete it's a nice walk in a given park. the pigeons seem to enjoy the crumbs.


:twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:40 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Quilt wrote:
I am genuinely interested to know more about the period of creativity that you inspired.
Can you be specific?
Cheers

Here is the basic story.
Steve Vai was having a laundry list of emotional scars in his life around the time of working and touring his Sex & Religion CD.
You can read a bit more detail of those scars on his website.
One common scar we all share in our own way was the loss of FZ. There are two moments in time where the loss of
FZ hit me like a ton of bricks. I shared those moments with Steve and he later told me my story
was an inspiration to his creativity muse at that time and I believe that was sometime in 1994.

Firstly I had leanred of FZs passing when I had received a phone call from John Nelson
of The Meridian Arts Ensemble. A short time after I was driving around in my car with all the windows open
and all the natural ambient noises that one may not pay much attention to were as clear as ever.
While I did not see coke cans flying with cows over the moon a calm peace was in the air
and it felt like a spiritual sign to me.

Secondly I was at a Steve Vai concert for his Sex & Religion Tour. Thunes was on bass.
I sat directly behind Steve Vai's family Lodge Center. Most of this concert was so loud and inaudibly painful but when
he played an as of now still unreleased song dedicated to FZ "Ashes To Ashes" I never cried so hard in my life.
From the opening note to the conclusion I was balling away like a child who was scolded by their parent.
All alone in our room crying as hard and feeling helpless as you never had but that moment is healing.
Steve Vai provided that room where in death there is life.
It was a total release point of accepting the loss of FZ. I told the preceding most touching incident to Steve's family after the show
and about a month or so later I shared a more detailed story with Steve. Steve digested that story for a period of time and later
told me how it all inspired him becoming his muse of a new mode of creativity of whatever he was then working on then
which I assume is several songs from Alien Love Secrets such as Die To Live & Tender Surrender.

Now, that may actually be the most coherent thing you have written for a long time. Why not inspire yourself with it and stop writing all the posts with mysterious hidden meanings that nobody get? Peace.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:31 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Steve digested that story for a period of time and later told me how it all inspired him becoming his muse of a new mode of creativity of whatever he was then working on then which I assume is several songs from Alien Love Secrets such as Die To Live & Tender Surrender.

And Studebacher Hoch can write the Lord's Prayer on the head of a pin.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:51 pm 
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I told Elvis to quit all that movie shit and just do the music.

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