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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:11 pm 
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I just hope they come to my area this year.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:01 pm 
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sabrinaIII wrote:
mr_myxyltpyx wrote:
The way I see it Barry is quite simple I am an Electrician by trade and i charge in the region of £25 ($50) an hour so if i go and see a band and they are there for 3 hours then $150 would be ok with me cos i think that i would not stand up there for less than that, I know it only works on a personal scale but thats the way i see it. Zeppelin wanted $250 dollars for their gig at the O2 so there was no way i would have paid that sort of cash even if it was the biggest reunion for the last 20 years.

MYXY



And those are the original bands, never forget, not a genetic tribute band with a sprinkling of alumi. :lol:


Not only is the current Led Zeppelin not an original band but it's not even a reunion of one. Led Zeppelin 2007 was a genetic tribute but in either case Frank Zappa was not a band. The Band Led Zeppelin died a long long time ago. Jason Bohnam by definition of Alumni Quotient Ejectamenta makes the current Led Zeppelin a genetic tribute. It's all reproduceable data.The few times they have performed sans John Bohnam under the marque name of Led Zeppelin have been mediocre at best. They were absolutely terrible at the Atlantic Records 40th Anniversary show and in general there live shows always sounded quite different from there studio LPs as all the interesting multi-track layering is non existent in a live show. Still a live Led Zeppelin show was always entertaining Rock & Roll.

Hey for Led Zeppelin fans this is great but it's just not Led Zeppelin and even if it could be Led Zeppelin it justs was very good live Rock & Roll not
music with the compositional density of Frank Zappa.

I have seen The Who over 20 times since Keith Moon passed away and while they were all entertaining Rock & Roll band performances of The Who music with two or three alumni and a host of others it just is not The Who without Pete, Roger, John and Keith.

Frank Zappa was a Composer who had contracted over a thousand musicians to perform his music over several decades of performing and recording. The Project Object was just not planned around 3 or 4 musicians. Frank Zappa's Canon exemplifies a focus of a Composers will for progress not something defined by the Woodstock generation and whatever version of retirement home walker devices that get out there performing the music. Frank did assemble bands for recording and touring but overall he was a composer.

Zappa Plays Zappa performs Frank Zappa's music authentically while lots of touring Rock & Roll Bands of the Woodstock generation and that's what they are basically bands that are in the ballpark for what those groups came up with decades ago.

Even though these bands had writers that were only part of the group effort it was a Rock & Roll group where the sum of all parts at times had key elements. In Zappa's music the key element is Frank Zappa the Composer not The Fab Four or The High Numbers.

There's a production of Wagner's Die Walküre at The Metropolitan Opera house. Center Parterre Premium $375 .
Just what is the Alumni Quotient there. there actually was a Premiere Cast
June 26, 1870 and they are all to the best of my knowledge 100% Dead.
Image

Die Walküre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Walk%C3%BCre

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:31 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
There's a production of Wagner's Die Walküre at The Metropolitan Opera house. Center Parterre Premium $375 .
Just what is the Alumni Quotient there. there actually was a Premiere Cast
June 26, 1870 and they are all to the best of my knowledge 100% Dead.

The Fort Worth Symphony Orchestra is at Carnegie next Saturday, I will (unfortunately) be in attendance. I'm pretty sure they're 100% dead as well. Wish me luck!
G.C.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:49 am 
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Galoot Co-Log-Nuh wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
There's a production of Wagner's Die Walküre at The Metropolitan Opera house. Center Parterre Premium $375 .
Just what is the Alumni Quotient there. there actually was a Premiere Cast
June 26, 1870 and they are all to the best of my knowledge 100% Dead.

The Fort Worth Symphony Orchestra is at Carnegie next Saturday, I will (unfortunately) be in attendance. I'm pretty sure they're 100% dead as well. Wish me luck!
G.C.


I'm not familiar with The Fort Worth Symphony Orchestra and how Miguel Harth-Bedoya gets those group of musicians to get all the notes, rhythms and tone colors of Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolfe but I hope you also have a chance to see the the pre-concert activities that begin at 12:30.

Peter and the Wolfe is an example of a composition that has had quite a few adaptations where many were not necessarily the composers arrangement but with ZPZ I observe the key element in their Tour De Frank is to represent Frank Zappa's compositions and arrangements not to drastically rearrange them. It has little to nothing to do with Alumni Quotient Ejectamaneta.



[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/PeterandtheWolfColoringBook.png/200px-PeterandtheWolfColoringBook.png

[/img]

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:52 am 
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Galoot Co-Log-Nuh wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
There's a production of Wagner's Die Walküre at The Metropolitan Opera house. Center Parterre Premium $375 .
Just what is the Alumni Quotient there. there actually was a Premiere Cast
June 26, 1870 and they are all to the best of my knowledge 100% Dead.

The Fort Worth Symphony Orchestra is at Carnegie next Saturday, I will (unfortunately) be in attendance. I'm pretty sure they're 100% dead as well. Wish me luck!
G.C.


I'm not familiar with The Fort Worth Symphony Orchestra and how Miguel Harth-Bedoya gets those group of musicians to get all the notes, rhythms and tone colors of Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolfe but I hope you also have a chance to see the the pre-concert activities that begin at 12:30.

Peter and the Wolfe is an example of a composition that has had quite a few adaptations where many were not necessarily the composers arrangement but with ZPZ I observe the key element in their Tour De Frank is to represent Frank Zappa's compositions and arrangements in a most authentic way not to drastically rearrange them. ZPZ TDF has little to nothing to do with Alumni Quotient Ejectamenta.

Once again while I do enjoy the special guest alumni that have been part of ZPZ TDF it is their due diligence in adhering to the composers intent that I find the highest level of dedication. As I await whenever ZPZ TDF Phase III will commence it is the compositions and specific composers arrangements that I look forward to ever more so than Alumni Quotient Ejectamenta.


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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:23 am 
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sabrinaIII wrote:
mr_myxyltpyx wrote:
The way I see it Barry is quite simple I am an Electrician by trade and i charge in the region of £25 ($50) an hour so if i go and see a band and they are there for 3 hours then $150 would be ok with me cos i think that i would not stand up there for less than that, I know it only works on a personal scale but thats the way i see it. Zeppelin wanted $250 dollars for their gig at the O2 so there was no way i would have paid that sort of cash even if it was the biggest reunion for the last 20 years.

MYXY


And those are the original bands, never forget, not a genetic tribute band with a sprinkling of alumi. :lol:


Ha, I saw Frank 25x (98% of the time in the first 5 rows, center) and probably spent no more than $275.00 on tickets. I think people are nuts (or have a lot of disposable income) to pay insane prices for rock bands.
I'd rather give my money to the poor. Seriously.

Dweezil: Dad, now that you never leave the basement except to work with an orchestra now and then, I'm thinking of developing a tour in tribute to your music.
Frank: No, don't waste your time. Do your own thing.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:42 am 
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brainpang wrote:
Ha, I saw Frank 25x (98% of the time in the first 5 rows, center) and probably spent no more than $275.00 on tickets. I think people are nuts (or have a lot of disposable income) to pay insane prices for rock bands.
I'd rather give my money to the poor. Seriously.


The last time I checked when Frank last toured in 1988 and before that it was 1984 and before that it was 1981. I'll leave the analysis on his last three US tours so the cost of entertainment at that time be it music, sports or movies was just different. In 1981 the average salary was 13,000 dollars and the average concert ticket was $12 to $15. Possibly even a little higher up to $18 for some venues Orchestra. All of entertainment in 2008 is basically 5 to 10x more what it was in 1988 alone because the rich grow faster in overall income that % of a lower value. The people who have money and corporations that purchase entertainment have tens of thousands on an annual basis while the average family in a large US metropolitan area has 100,000 a year total income and expenses that limit the amount of $100 ticket events they can attend.

If I made 18,000 a year in 1984 I could afford 13 Zappa shows at $15 a ticket and another 30 other concerts and 20 sporting events because I was single but . What entertainment was in 1988, 1984, 1981 or how far you want to go back and analyze the cost of Frank Zappa or any other form of entertainment is just relevant to consumer finances. As a family we will spend more money on gas this year alone than I did in my first 5 years of owning a car. What was gas in 1980 ($1.25) and now we have two cars as a family as opposed to my one single car in 1980. There are just too many cars on the road in the big city and the 8 mile drive to work has a 40% idle time where the 32MPG CTY estimates efficiency vehicle actually only gets 15 MPG. those gvmt EPA tests fro CTY is 11 miles 22 start and stops and an 18% idle time. 18% idle is just unrealistic for prime time commuter drive in the NYC 5 boroughs. As the cost of gas goes up so does all consumer products and services. Food costs have escalated 30% in the last two years alone. Health insurance, Auto Insurance and education costs have gone up a ridiculous % rates in the last two decades. Yes entertainment is going up at a higher % some other goods and services and that is because the people with lots of $$$$ will spend it. Don't blame DweeziL Zappa. At a $50 a ticket average for professional entertainment ZPZ is not all that bad these days. Frankie Valie is $61/$71 plus service charges at the same venue where ZPZ was approximately $10 less each. Soem of these groups get $250 - $600 a ticket before service fees of $25 to $50 before handling fees. It's supply and demand where the promoters, rich folks and corporate money seem to have allot to do with pricing.

My family in 2008 does not have disposable income to see 50 live music events a year and 20 sporting events or movies as I had back in 1981, 1984 or 1988 but I can prioritize how I spend my entertainment budget on Official Zappa because that is what I like the best. I no longer feel the need to see Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd. The Who, The Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton or if Paul & Ringo play under the name The Beatles or The Fab Two. I like Zappa and ZPZ is my idea of unexpected perfection.

As far as sports this year we got 4 free comp tickets to the NY Rangers vs NY Islanders in the pre season. The cost of the tickets were $600. AS I said Pre-Season. My daughter had a great time and I am glad she could go to Madison Square Garden. I have been watching the games on TV and that is fine for me. The average NY Ranger ticket is $100 and they sell out every game. Tickets for sporting events, concerts or watching dogs on a leash at MSG are 10x what they were in 1981.

In the 80s I would see a concert every week because I was at a stage of life where I spent a higher % of my income on entertainment but as entertainment has escalated so has the financial responsibilities for the average age group that attended Frank Zappa concerts in the 60s, 70s and 80s. In 2008 if I see my 4 to 6 Zappa shows at $60 a ticket I am a very happy man. Maybe one or two other live shows. I hear Return To Forever is touring in 2008 I'd like to see that.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:16 am 
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That's all well and good, Mr. T. but what I was alluding to is that I've seen the real deal (FZ) at SANE prices, so the incentive to fork over top dollar to see his son recreate the catalog is pretty small. Of course, I am boycotting ZpZ due to the legal bullying, so that's the end of that.


Last edited by brainpang on Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:40 am 
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..'cuse a newbeast, all one haze been able to gather is that nowadays they are throwing things out through the walled window, the likes of pc-professors and gratiscards, althought not CDs. What is the prize the museyssions receive, one dollop? SOWHY not sue the muggers, fieves, assasins, pickpocket, cutpursus, reevers, snigsmen, and robbers, them maggots then?

uhmbrelliant, try making clean-out Sillycium w.o. being bothered. Due teh dRain inner minute minnit...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:57 am 
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I think half of ZPZs ticket price goes to pay the for the cost of transporting, packing and setting up Terry Bozzio's drum set.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:00 pm 
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pocket_fisherman wrote:
I think half of ZPZs ticket price goes to pay the for the cost of transporting, packing and setting up Terry Bozzio's drum set.


Bozzio doesn't tour with ZPZ anymore, now does he?


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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
pocket_fisherman wrote:
I think half of ZPZs ticket price goes to pay the for the cost of transporting, packing and setting up Terry Bozzio's drum set.


Bozzio doesn't tour with ZPZ anymore, now does he?


I read he has something like 7 sets of the full kit stored around the world for easy access.


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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
pocket_fisherman wrote:
I think half of ZPZs ticket price goes to pay the for the cost of transporting, packing and setting up Terry Bozzio's drum set.


Bozzio doesn't tour with ZPZ anymore, now does he?


I suppose not, so Dweez has no excuse to charge so much!


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pocket_fisherman wrote:
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
pocket_fisherman wrote:
I think half of ZPZs ticket price goes to pay the for the cost of transporting, packing and setting up Terry Bozzio's drum set.


Bozzio doesn't tour with ZPZ anymore, now does he?


I suppose not, so Dweez has no excuse to charge so much!


Unless he's STILL trying to recoup those costs!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:45 am 
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As far as ZPZ is concerned, I believe they are quite capable of delivering a quality representation of this music on their own, but I get excited to here about alumni sitting in. There are plenty still around who can comfortably hang so-to-speak. Vinnie Coliautta, Mike Keneally, Bobby Martin, George Duke, Tommy Mars, Eddie Jobson (is he still around?), Jean Luc Ponty, Ed Mann, Nappy and Ike immediately come to mind though I'm sure many other can as well.

With or without alumni, I'll still support the cause for new music. I can't see shooting myself in the foot by boycotting releases like Buffalo, Wazoo, Trance Fusion, MOFO (both) or even the Dub Room soundtrack.

If Return To Forever are indeed touring this year, I'll be there (sans scheduling conficts as has been the case lately). If nothing else, I'll buy the CD/DVD.


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feetlightup wrote:
pocket_fisherman wrote:
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
pocket_fisherman wrote:
I think half of ZPZs ticket price goes to pay the for the cost of transporting, packing and setting up Terry Bozzio's drum set.


Bozzio doesn't tour with ZPZ anymore, now does he?


I suppose not, so Dweez has no excuse to charge so much!


Unless he's STILL trying to recoup those costs!



He played a much smaller kit during the summer dates than monstrocity used on the tour that the ZPZ DVD was culled from.


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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
As far as ZPZ is concerned, I believe they are quite capable of delivering a quality representation of this music on their own, but I get excited to here about alumni sitting in. There are plenty still around who can comfortably hang so-to-speak. Vinnie Coliautta, Mike Keneally, Bobby Martin, George Duke, Tommy Mars, Eddie Jobson (is he still around?), Jean Luc Ponty, Ed Mann, Nappy and Ike immediately come to mind though I'm sure many other can as well.

With or without alumni, I'll still support the cause for new music. I can't see shooting myself in the foot by boycotting releases like Buffalo, Wazoo, Trance Fusion, MOFO (both) or even the Dub Room soundtrack.

If Return To Forever are indeed touring this year, I'll be there (sans scheduling conficts as has been the case lately). If nothing else, I'll buy the CD/DVD.


I'd love to see those guys again too. I really like Eddie Jobson, and would love to hear George Duke again (well...). I think Vinnie would be too expensive!

I'm buying everything I can. There's a few official things I haven't bought yet due to fiscal issues and need: MOFO, Corsaga, Quadiophiliac (don't like DVD-A), Mystery Disc and EIHN. I'm getting Dub Room CD next time order, but I'm waiting for something new. If a cover band puts out something, I'll probably buy that too.

Return to Forever, hmmm... that sounds worth looking into.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:39 pm 
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pocket_fisherman wrote:
I really like Eddie Jobson


While off-topic I hope this helps you out.

Edie Jobson's new band UKZ
http://www.ukzband.com/
Return To Forever Press Release
http://www.chickcorea.com/RTF/RTF%20Press%20release.pdf

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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brainpang wrote:
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
pocket_fisherman wrote:
I think half of ZPZs ticket price goes to pay the for the cost of transporting, packing and setting up Terry Bozzio's drum set.


Bozzio doesn't tour with ZPZ anymore, now does he?


I read he has something like 7 sets of the full kit stored around the world for easy access.


I would not call it easy access but 7 massive clinic kits at different locations makes it easier where Terry can fly into those general regions for a handful of clinics in a region and the drum kits can be trucked somewhat locally to venue(s) in that region.

The drum kit he used fro ZPZ was a bit smaller than his Clinic kit but that was very large and still costs lots to transport. Was it assembled for each show or is it generally fixed where it takes up lots of space in the tour truck(s). Either way it's a large cost to transport to many venues globally. That kit of Trry's used for ZPZ took up lots of truck space. More trucks higher operating expenses. More stage setup and tear down time larger operating expenses but the Police who get 3x to 5 x the typical face ticket seem to have less tour expenses as compared to ZPZ.

2006 $50 average ticket price for ZPZ for this type of professional tour is by no means overpriced regardless if Bozzio was is in the mix or not adn the same goes for 2007 .

Terry's drum clinics are generally much shorter tours than planning large 50 to 100 date tours such as ZPZ. Don't confuse the two animals for logistics for each is quite different.

To air freight his large clinic kit each time would be tons of money. My guess is his drum sponsor probably pays for the storage and trucking if it is clinic related. I don't think Terry's drum sponsor was going to freight a 100 ZPZ tour. Fans should think outside the box.

I am not sure if in 2008 that comment I heard similar to what you are mentioning is still in effect. I believe Terry had changed his drums and sponsors a few years back. Maybe that was only certain aspects of the kit such as cymbals. It's been so long since I researched his drum kit.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:52 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Fans should think outside the box.


Anyone who uses this hackneyed expression clearly does not.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:32 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
pocket_fisherman wrote:
I really like Eddie Jobson


While off-topic I hope this helps you out.

Edie Jobson's new band UKZ
http://www.ukzband.com/
Return To Forever Press Release
http://www.chickcorea.com/RTF/RTF%20Press%20release.pdf


Thanks, very nice of you.

I was just joking about Terry's kit....it's just so big, it's ludicrous.

If you like Terry and Chad, you should check out their Solos & Duets DVD. You have to really like drums, but it's really good and they duet the Black Page #1. You can see the fully-loaded Bozzio kit there.


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brainpang wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Fans should think outside the box.


Anyone who uses this hackneyed expression clearly does not.


I don't even know why this guy is still here!

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punknaynowned wrote:
yeha, I copied the code for the page and tried to get the deeper meaning right? but now I can't post the bitmap I made of it laughing at my own stupidity. damn, how do I convert bmp to jpg?
I had this whole vision, right?
of like pages and pages and pages turning by in virtual fashion where you see just the edges of the page and then the curl over and over and then with this forum's date and time after the series stops and laying flat; then a magnifier crawls onto the page, coasts across the page and focuses in on 'Blimmin . . .'
with circles and arrows describing the significance of the variable phrase 'speech-up the continental drift', going off in tree- and then flow-chart fashion, with asterisks and appendices in drop-down menus . . .
Coupled with an exhaustive concordance on the possible meanings of mennal and then again in reference to 'japaneezer',with cross-referenced indices to cross pacific trade negotiations etc.

maybe in a hundred years


weird - that's what i thought, too. :) except maybe a Japaneezer is an elderly gentleman of Japanese extrakshun...

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:51 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
BillyDaMt wrote:
debutante_daisy wrote:
According to Trendy's sig, "Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights. We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep."

I beg to differ. WE the fans are in control of our choices regarding how we spend our time and money are we not? Unless ZPZ comes up with a fresh line each tour (i.e. new alumni perfomers)to warrant such a high ticket price for their show, I doubt I will fork over that kind of dough.


Yup vote with your wallet.
It is the most effective way.
Always.


Fans can go see Led Zeppelin, The Who or The Rolling Stones for $500. Eric "I'm God" Clapton and Steve Winwood tickets are $250 face. If anyone was interested or lucky to get em' through ticketbastard they were about $300 with charges. Ticket agents, the ones who always get the majority of tickets may want up to 1,000 for prime seats. Honestly I would not pay more than $100 to see any of these bands or any live entertainment in general but professional entertainment cost money and that is what ZPZ is. They are fairly priced where the promoters place them. With bands that have high demand bar band cover acts do not make that much of an impact on their touring unit sales but with Zappa the interest level is limited so even though the artistic integrity of performance standards is one thing that ZPZ delivers that covers do not how these cover bands affect demand for premium quality touring act like ZPZ is another quotient. In my economic analysis Cover acts do not promote ZPZ Concert sales. They diminish the demand of a professional act while at the same time they do not deliver artistic standards.

Radio has limitation on how many songs by an individual artist can be played consecutively. The same should hold true for Non-Official Cover bands playing someone else's music. They devalue the artists intellectual property.

Just because there are in the ballpark bands performing with alumni at garage band standards for 25 buck fans should not have expectations to see a professional act like ZPZ in a professional setting at bar band prices. ZPZ is priced fairly for what it is regardless of an alumni quotient.

As far as ZPZ

Unexpected perfection regardless of any Alumni Quotient but this fan vote with your wallet mindset seemed to have leaked into how they support the ZFT business because of fans fanatical desires for Alumni and or becoming there own executive publisher. From my memory how many Alumni were in Ensemble Moderne. Can I get a ZERO. It's about the music not the alumni. What musicians are used in the Canon evolved but now as we look at Zappa the composer the music is more important than alumni quotient ejectamenta. Hey alumni are a fun part of the ZPZ show but alumni does not make the music.

The ZFT are going to continue to follow production protocols. While we the fans may very well get specific projects that are top on the list of fanatical interest the fans can not set the production protocols for living on reproductive data.

Don't be no fool, don't be no dope
Common sense is your only hope
When the Fanaskeptasaureous tells you it's time to vote with your wallet
Tell the motherfucker to take a hike.

I don''t know Billy could you be unhappy about something? I am not quite sure. Most are pretty happy with how the project object is moving forward. I am not trying to be some hard ass but many fans seem to be harboring some boycott for ulterior motive/ hidden agenda.

I am not saying what you do but your comment certainly wants me to get some clarification on your stance. My guess would be if support for ZPZ diminishes so will yearly production on projects. Touring helps promote the business. I do expect DZ to spend some time in the near future on other projects but ZPZ is something very special and I for one am delighted regardless if they have Alumni. Now as far as what Alumni could be used there are some obvious choices that would be very interesting as a guest of ZPZ but unfortunately some of these obvious choices of interest have extreme difficulties in how they conduct there day to day life. A human being regardless of his life's accomplishments at one point in life does not guarantee he can perform at the required level at another point ion life. there are many factors that diminish performance. If they as an individual could focus their energies the way the core band does I'd welcome that with open arms but some of these alumni if not already deceased have problems that are outside the realm of just getting old and grey. I just don't think some of these alumni can take care of themselves on a daily basis never mind focusing their energies for what ZPZ requires. The resume does not get you the job. What you can deliver based on job requirements is a very big factor. The amount of focused energy and commitment on a daily basis for ZPZ is quite the task some just don't have what it takes to take care of themselves never mind what ZPZ requires.

ZPZ, Vaulternative & Zappa records is something most are thrilled about. Somehow all these weekly downloads and AUD trading sites get fans itching for something every week. The schedule of new releases and production quality of each and every ZFT business unit have all been top notch. It all takes time to do it right.

What have you done for me lately, for some this seems to be the agenda. Make Zappa's art my way with my alumni quotient variable... what percentage I don't know, be it what some fans expectations are in ZPZ or ZFT releases seems to be on some fanatical cycle shorter than a womans period. It cost time and money for each release. It takes time to get that return on investment. Some may very well not care how much money the ZFT have spent on upgrading UMRK, invest in engineering fro projects or the time and money that goes into ZPZ . To get each business unit to perform at the levels required takes a special type of investment. Leather is two tours old now. The fanaskeptqsaureous need to come up with some new shit. The complaints on how the ZFT are not filling the metaphorical needle wit the proper dose of their personally desired Zappa narcotic just makes no sense whatsoever. Some fans need to cease and desist ignorance. The artist is in control 100% not the fans and some union striking mind set. Frank made his art his way. No one was going to tell him how to run his business or how to make his art. If the fans liked the project fine. He took chances knowing very well certain projects would not have a return on investment.

Do the majority of fans not see how the ZFT are investing in getting a variety of engineering masters involved in new projects. They get paid. The same goes for ZPZ they are a top act. The core lineup is one of the most talented groups of musicians ever assembled to play Zappa music. Their diversity and execution to Zappa standards is unparalleled by any live Zappa touring lineup. They perform in promoter based theaters at normal prices. That type of tour costs money. They are not a bar band playing in some garage in Canarsie or on a lawn with flamingos in New Jersey. They are focused at their objectives and don't have outside influences getting in the way of what they must do on a nightly basis. They don't have the problems of the 1988 band be it personal or substance.

We as fans should remember the market feasibility for new Zappa products and touring is what it is. It's not like they are going to sell Platinum or sell out Madison Square Garden or Stadiums on any given project no matter how crazy the general fan base would be about any given project. There is over 80 projects to enjoy while others are works in progress. ZPZ with our without Alumni icing on the cake is amazing. Hey I like the icing don't get me wrong but the cake and filling has the substance of unparalleled density of any live zappa touring lineup. G-Spot Tornado and Dog-Meat is prime example of how that core band can achieve unexpected perfection with a 0% Alumni quotient. While ZPZ and Vaulternative/Zappa records are different business entities they fit together like a well oiled machine.

What I find important is how Gail as executive producer follows specific standards, regardless of if it's a selection of nuggets for such as the Corsaga's Joe's XMASage release or the Full Show releases such as Zappa Wazoo, Buffalo and FZ:OZ. Just because some fans may not be overjoyed with special nuggets such as Joe's XMASage does not change the production protocols for each project.

It seems if some fans would just be happy if they transfered these to digital format ASAP and sell them as cheap as possible. Fans should take a long hard look at the overall plan and not their immediate desires for specific material.

Juan Valdez suggests to wake up and smell the worlds finest optional entertainment.


Not to piss you off or anything, but the venues you are knocking saying ZPZ is way too professional to play are precisely the venues Frank was playing as well as some larger ones. The last time I saw him was in a medium sized bar in Indianapolis around the You Are What You Is tour. And now the genetically descendant cover band is more worthy than the original was? Wow. I can't think of too much in the world where the imitation, no matter how accurate or sincere, is deemed worth more that the original. You also talk about cover bands denigrating what the "real" band plays affected their bottom line. Well, how about the way these ticket resellers who always seem to get the lion's share of the best tickets reselling them for double and triple and more of face value driving away the average fan? How's that help?

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Last edited by jimmyzen on Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:06 pm 
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Location: columbus, indiana
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
As far as ZPZ is concerned, I believe they are quite capable of delivering a quality representation of this music on their own, but I get excited to here about alumni sitting in. There are plenty still around who can comfortably hang so-to-speak. Vinnie Coliautta, Mike Keneally, Bobby Martin, George Duke, Tommy Mars, Eddie Jobson (is he still around?), Jean Luc Ponty, Ed Mann, Nappy and Ike immediately come to mind though I'm sure many other can as well.

With or without alumni, I'll still support the cause for new music. I can't see shooting myself in the foot by boycotting releases like Buffalo, Wazoo, Trance Fusion, MOFO (both) or even the Dub Room soundtrack.

If Return To Forever are indeed touring this year, I'll be there (sans scheduling conficts as has been the case lately). If nothing else, I'll buy the CD/DVD.



RTF!!!!! Yes yes yes! Romantic Warrior! Let's see- Al DiMeola, Stanley Clarke, Lenny White and Chick Corea, yes? If there was a band i could go back in time to see I wish I could have seen Weather Report back in the day. That's one reunion that could never be w/o Pastorios. Those were the days when fusion was the best!!!!! Ever see the weather report box CD/DVD set? Very tasty!!

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My new purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.


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