Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:50 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:29 am
Posts: 5039
Say goodbye to DVD-A and SACD and say hello to Blue Laser technology.

The new Blue laser Formats lend themselves to large HD Audio Projects where one project I have been thinking of for years "Happy Halloween Everybody" would seem perfect.

Even if every song from every show was not 5.1 or 7.1 HD Audio, HD Audio 2.0 at 24/96 kHz on Blue Laser with so much storage on a single Blue Laser disk and lossless playback at studio quality is what is so amazing. Maybe have the Haloween show in 5.1 and every other show in HD 24/96 2.0 but everything regardless of level of surround sound encoding is lossless HD Audio 24bit/96kHz.


My general viewpoint now would be to have a single disk or double disk volume for every year that had a set of Halloween shows. DVD-A and SACD are out the window. This should be a Blue laser project most likely Blue Ray. There could be a downloadable HD Audio Sampler similar to the way there was a Sampler for YCDTOSA.

Each Vol. in addition to having every full show could have small videos segments as bonus material.

While the Blue Laser Formats have not totally captured the market as of yet my guess in another year or two it could be feasible for such an Audio project.

They could advertise this on a ZPZ tour with handout post cards.
Each Happy Halloween Everybody Volume
4 to 6 shows in HD Audio (2.0 and 5.1)
Video
Interviews
at a cost of $80 to $120 per Volume.
Subscription Only 5,000 unit interest feasibility quotient before production.
Survey for feasibility.
Sampler HD Audio Download $20(10 Songs, Two Videos, 1 Interview, $5 Coupon Towards each Volume)

So for example Happy Halloween Everybody Vol 1 (78') on Blue Ray
woudl have the 6 Full Palladium shows including The Big One on Halloween Night could be a surround sound project. Extras could include video footage for any show material from that general October time possibly even SNL + Radio Interviews w./ Out Takes such as Unreleased stuff Frank aired on the radio.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 6098
Location: Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania
Trendmonger wrote:
So for example Happy Halloween Everybody Vol 1 (78') on Blue Ray
woudl have the 6 Full Palladium shows including The Big One on Halloween Night could be a surround sound project. Extras could include video footage for any show material from that general October time possibly even SNL + Radio Interviews w./ Out Takes such as Unreleased stuff Frank aired on the radio.

Gary....How can I explain myself in terminology you will understand.
Let's start:
Why in God's name would you:
1- Try to take a "stereo" (2 channel) mix and turn it into a 5.1 unless you recorded it 5.1 to begin with?
2- You could do an "ambience" hook-up ala Hafler's faux surround sound circuit:
Image
But why would you want to?
3- Take the 2" 24 track original... put it through a 9000 series SSL console
and "remix" it for 5.1? Didn't we already establish that the ZPZ DVD sounded much better in stereo than it did in 5.1?
It seems we are going around in circles again on this topic.
When it comes to music 2 speakers are better than 4 or 5 or 6. Less is more. When it comes to movies (action) 5.1 is great. Concerts should remain in 2 channel period.
G.C.

_________________
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:19 am
Posts: 313
^thought so^ ;.)

..further off topic, HD DVD looses out to BlueRay, or similar...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:29 am
Posts: 5039
Galoot Co-Log-Nuh wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
So for example Happy Halloween Everybody Vol 1 (78') on Blue Ray
woudl have the 6 Full Palladium shows including The Big One on Halloween Night could be a surround sound project. Extras could include video footage for any show material from that general October time possibly even SNL + Radio Interviews w./ Out Takes such as Unreleased stuff Frank aired on the radio.

Gary....How can I explain myself in terminology you will understand.
Let's start:
Why in God's name would you:
1- Try to take a "stereo" (2 channel) mix and turn it into a 5.1 unless you recorded it 5.1 to begin with?
2- You could do an "ambience" hook-up ala Hafler's faux surround sound circuit:
Image
But why would you want to?
3- Take the 2" 24 track original... put it through a 9000 series SSL console
and "remix" it for 5.1? Didn't we already establish that the ZPZ DVD sounded much better in stereo than it did in 5.1?
It seems we are going around in circles again on this topic.
When it comes to music 2 speakers are better than 4 or 5 or 6. Less is more. When it comes to movies (action) 5.1 is great. Concerts should remain in 2 channel period.
G.C.


Frank had The Yellow Shark production MIXed live for 6 Channel. The Official release on CD was reMIXed for 2 Channel so what the MIX originally is most certainly is not always every MIX attainable or desirable. I hope for a Yellow Shark Multi-Channel project one day because that was how Frank envisioned it and had it performed live.

Frank Zappa was a pioneer of MULTI_Channel. I think there is a place for his work in Multi-Channel even if it is sporadic in overall project plans. If and when a project contains Multi-Channel I want the professionals to MIX it not some processor in my home where it may sound like a Duncan Yo Yo. I am not saying a 5.1 mix is the holy grail of audio playback but having the extra channels gives a producer a chance to separate instrumentation and add live ambiance how and when they want it to happen not like some effect that makes the music go up and down on a string. Multi- Channel MIX should be controlled where each track for the entire production goes under analysis for Multi-Channel MIX considerations during each and every second. The Easy Bake Oven approach to Multi-Channel is less than appealing.

In two channel we generally may think of a position on the clock where we want each recorded track to sound like it is coming from well in Multi-Channel a producer has the ability to create more of a 3D atmosphere. It will take time for producers and listeners to appreciate surround sound but because it is not the norm I don't think it should be discarded. Some producers overdo the effect side of MIXing fro Multi-Channel but the possibilities for 3D playback is ever more so there.


I am only suggesting 1 Full concert of 4 ,5, 6 or however many Halloween Run Shows were for a given Tour. Each volume of this project could have 1 5.1 or 7.1 and the rest 2.0 but all HD Audio 24bit/96kHz Lossless.

When someone mixes for 5.1 I don't think they should make the audio mix seem like some magic trick or truck going by audio effect. Hey watch out the tuba just hit me upside the head but I think multi-channel can give the music life in the form of instrumentation being heard from 5 to 7 channels plus LFE instead of the standard 2.0 music .

Even if people prefer the 2.0 MIXes I still enjoy listening to alternative MIXes in surround format and I would rather leave that MIX up to the producer/artist and not any home based processing.

So to reiterate HD Audio be it 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1 where it is mastered in 24bit/96kHz and can be played back Lossless that is the focus of my desire. If one show out of 4 pr 6 is surround I don't see all the fuss if someone really wants to hear surround as produced by the artist or a moder top notch engineer like Frank Fillipeti they have that opportunity .

Let's wait and see what we all think about KCETV TV Special DVD and how that surround MIX will sound.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 6098
Location: Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania
Trendmonger wrote:
Let's wait and see what we all think about KCETV TV Special DVD and how that surround MIX will sound.

Here is a "heads-up" on that MIX Gary............It will suck! Case Closed......G.C.

_________________
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:38 am
Posts: 56
The ZPZ DVD 5.1 sucks because it is Dolby digital and way over compressed (the video isn't that great either). On the other hand the Halloween and Quad are much better. I'll admit I was annoyed by the aggressive panning on "Zeets" but everything else is great. The beauty of the DVDA and the newer HD formats is you can include both a hi-res surround mix and a separate hi-res stereo mix. I would love to hear The Yellow Shark as it was presented live.
Unfortunately no one seems to be interested in DVDA or SACD and if they wont invest in a system supporting those formats they will not shell out the kind of money needed to experience the enhanced fidelity of DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD. [/quote]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:29 am
Posts: 5039
RobRay wrote:
The ZPZ DVD 5.1 sucks because it is Dolby digital and way over compressed (the video isn't that great either). On the other hand the Halloween and Quad are much better. I'll admit I was annoyed by the aggressive panning on "Zeets" but everything else is great. The beauty of the DVDA and the newer HD formats is you can include both a hi-res surround mix and a separate hi-res stereo mix. I would love to hear The Yellow Shark as it was presented live.
Unfortunately no one seems to be interested in DVDA or SACD and if they wont invest in a system supporting those formats they will not shell out the kind of money needed to experience the enhanced fidelity of DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD.


Understand that the DVD format placed limitations on Audio Encoding for the DVD production. This DVD is a 4 hour project on 2 DVD Disks. There was just not enough room for additional audio encoding on either of those DVD disks. If they produced it as 4 DVDs as to have additional audio encoding the production costs would have hit the roof. That is your opinion of the audio.

Hopefully a Blue Ray version of the ZPZ DVD will get released that could have DTS-HD and or Dolby True Uncompressed Bit for Bit Studio Quality.

I am interested to see what happens with the 2007 ZPZ DVD. I believe a friend of Dweezil's who just happens to be head guy from AMD is involved.
Hopefully this 2nd ZPZ Tour DVD will be headed for an HD Format with Lossless HD Audio.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 6098
Location: Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania
RobRay wrote:
Unfortunately no one seems to be interested in DVDA or SACD and if they wont invest in a system supporting those formats they will not shell out the kind of money needed to experience the enhanced fidelity of DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD.

I can name you at least two on this forum that are.
Trendmonger wrote:
I am interested to see what happens with the 2007 ZPZ DVD. I believe a friend of Dweezil's who just happens to be head guy from AMD is involved. Hopefully this 2nd ZPZ Tour DVD will be headed for an HD Format with Lossless HD Audio.

Yes I heard this as well. Hope it is true. Maybe this will the change the shape of things to come for all future releases.
G.C.

_________________
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:38 am
Posts: 56
I realize the capacity of the discs effects how much audio and video information can be represented. However, neither of the discs was totally full and the surround quality was just bad (i'll mention again the video being meh).

Galoot, I'm pretty sure I don't have to ask but, what would be your ideal format for all future releases?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:22 pm
Posts: 1221
Location: Nashville, Tn
I can't speak for galoot, but as for myself..... LASERDISC. THE SHINY WAVE OF THE FUTURE!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:01 am
Posts: 1263
Location: Bordeaux, France
I can't speak for Galoot either (and wouldn't dare approach his statiscal density on the subjet) but....

Just put out the product in full stereo, High bit rate, Spence Chrislu engineered, indistructible scratch proof (titanium) last foreever cd format disk. I promise i'll re-purchase the whole catalogue....really!

_________________
"You can fly like a Penguin when you're dealing with Turkeys."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 5691
Location: Closer than I Appear
I'd love to have it on BetaMax.

_________________
Let's hear it again for the London Philharmonic Orchestra!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 6098
Location: Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania
feetlightup wrote:
I'd love to have it on BetaMax.

You still have yours? WOW! I thought I was the only one left.

_________________
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:29 am
Posts: 5039
Galoot Co-Log-Nuh wrote:
feetlightup wrote:
I'd love to have it on BetaMax.

You still have yours? WOW! I thought I was the only one left.


I have a vivid memory watching some of Franks raw video footage with Franks Live Recording Engineer Mark Pinske inside UMRK Mobile back in 1981 behind the Palladium.

Sony Betamax
19" Sony Trinitron

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 6098
Location: Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania
Trendmonger wrote:
Galoot Co-Log-Nuh wrote:
feetlightup wrote:
I'd love to have it on BetaMax.

You still have yours? WOW! I thought I was the only one left.


I have a vivid memory watching some of Franks raw video footage with Franks Live Recording Engineer Mark Pinske inside UMRK Mobile back in 1981 behind the Palladium.

Sony Betamax
19" Sony Trinitron

Are you sure it wasn't the closed circuit security video with head of Palladium security Mark Penske in the NYPD mobile holding station?...... :wink:

_________________
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:29 am
Posts: 5039
Galoot Co-Log-Nuh wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Galoot Co-Log-Nuh wrote:
feetlightup wrote:
I'd love to have it on BetaMax.

You still have yours? WOW! I thought I was the only one left.


I have a vivid memory watching some of Franks raw video footage with Franks Live Recording Engineer Mark Pinske inside UMRK Mobile back in 1981 behind the Palladium.

Sony Betamax
19" Sony Trinitron

Are you sure it wasn't the closed circuit security video with head of Palladium security Mark Penske in the NYPD mobile holding station?...... :wink:


I worked with the wife of the NYPD sergeant of the Precinct for The Palladium, additionally several friends of mine were bouncers at The Palladium. Let's just say my back was covered.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:14 am
Posts: 18516
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
feetlightup wrote:
I'd love to have it on BetaMax.

I can offer you Frank's first 7 video releases on Beta. 8)

_________________
You're probably wondering why I'm here
(not that it makes a heck of a lot of a difference to ya)
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 6098
Location: Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania
just plain doug wrote:
feetlightup wrote:
I'd love to have it on BetaMax.

I can offer you Frank's first 7 video releases on Beta. 8)

I thought that was you on eBay doug........ :wink:

_________________
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 1337
Location: Paris, France
Trendmonger wrote:
Say goodbye to DVD-A and SACD and say hello to Blue Laser technology.

A DVD-9 is capable of storing around 9 hours of music in Linear PCM Stereo 48 khz 24 bits which is lossless by essence.
Is this meaningful to exceed 48 khz for music recorded in the 70's?
Does a 96 khz rate provide with any noticeable quality improvement for the audition?
Is it necessary to invest money in the HD standards while the war between Blu-ray and HD-DVD is not over?
Can the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio formats share the same fate as the Quadraphonic formats?
On top of that, how long will the physical formats survive?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:29 am
Posts: 5039
Maroual wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Say goodbye to DVD-A and SACD and say hello to Blue Laser technology.

A DVD-9 is capable of storing around 9 hours of music in Linear PCM Stereo 48 khz 24 bits which is lossless by essence.
Is this meaningful to exceed 48 khz for music recorded in the 70's?
Does a 96 khz rate provide with any noticeable quality improvement for the audition?
Is it necessary to invest money in the HD standards while the war between Blu-ray and HD-DVD is not over?
Can the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio formats share the same fate as the Quadraphonic formats?
On top of that, how long will the physical formats survive?


If I was looking for essence I would buy orange and lemons but what I am eager for is lossless 24bit/96kHz. Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible. It will take time for a new format to stabilize but CD technology and DVD technology will go away. Maybe a day will also come where physical media is replaced by downloadable HD data but there is a list of components necessary for true lossless studio quality audio.

But in talking of DVD technology while 1.5 Mbps is available typically only half that bandwidth has been used hence limiting fidelity.

Blue -Ray supports Bit Rates up to 24.5 Mbps. Be it 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1 true bit for bit studio quality masters can be achieved in Home Audio for the bit streams are now a superhighway as opposed to choked 767 kBps.

As far as HD Downloads (CD Quality BTW I wonder how an industry can call CD quality)check out Music Giants but DVD Bandwidth is chocked when it comes to HD Audio.

True HD Audio is 24 Bit/96kHz Lossless.

To answer your question in regards to old masters. High End DACs convert old analog masters to 24bit/96kHz resolution so I think there is a difference. Modern DSPs using 32 Bit word read the statistical density of these High REs masters not imaginable back when the first 1 bit CD players were released 25 years ago. There is a reason for progress.

High End Room Optimizers such as Trinnov’s Optimizer enhance the listening experience to help deliver l 3D Audio without having to invest tens of thousands on studio sound traps, baffling and dampening panels.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:21 am
Posts: 5174
Location: Rhineland
feetlightup wrote:
I'd love to have it on BetaMax.


I hope there will be a release on Video 2000 aka V 2000 aka Video Compact Cassette as well.

_________________
What's the ugliest part of your body ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:19 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:40 pm
Posts: 2342
my head hurts

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 1337
Location: Paris, France
Trendmonger wrote:
Maroual wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Say goodbye to DVD-A and SACD and say hello to Blue Laser technology.

A DVD-9 is capable of storing around 9 hours of music in Linear PCM Stereo 48 khz 24 bits which is lossless by essence.
Is this meaningful to exceed 48 khz for music recorded in the 70's?
Does a 96 khz rate provide with any noticeable quality improvement for the audition?
Is it necessary to invest money in the HD standards while the war between Blu-ray and HD-DVD is not over?
Can the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio formats share the same fate as the Quadraphonic formats?
On top of that, how long will the physical formats survive?


If I was looking for essence I would buy orange and lemons but what I am eager for is lossless 24bit/96kHz. Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible. It will take time for a new format to stabilize but CD technology and DVD technology will go away. Maybe a day will also come where physical media is replaced by downloadable HD data but there is a list of components necessary for true lossless studio quality audio.

But in talking of DVD technology while 1.5 Mbps is available typically only half that bandwidth has been used hence limiting fidelity.

Blue -Ray supports Bit Rates up to 24.5 Mbps. Be it 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1 true bit for bit studio quality masters can be achieved in Home Audio for the bit streams are now a superhighway as opposed to choked 767 kBps.

As far as HD Downloads (CD Quality BTW I wonder how an industry can call CD quality)check out Music Giants but DVD Bandwidth is chocked when it comes to HD Audio.

True HD Audio is 24 Bit/96kHz Lossless.

To answer your question in regards to old masters. High End DACs convert old analog masters to 24bit/96kHz resolution so I think there is a difference. Modern DSPs using 32 Bit word read the statistical density of these High REs masters not imaginable back when the first 1 bit CD players were released 25 years ago. There is a reason for progress.

High End Room Optimizers such as Trinnov’s Optimizer enhance the listening experience to help deliver l 3D Audio without having to invest tens of thousands on studio sound traps, baffling and dampening panels.

Trendy, I am deeply sorry. This was the second time I attempted to talk with you (kind of) seriously and all I get in return sounds like a very long random sequence of gibberish to me. Now I see only three possibilities left:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 1337
Location: Paris, France
I will try to be constructive, I understood halk of your answer.
Could you please dig in the second part of it?

(excuse me Mikey if you do not have enough disk space to handle the answer)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:18 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:40 pm
Posts: 2342
Please stop.

Trendy has reached his former out of control peak.

I can't believe anyone reads his bullshit.

I can 't believe any human can have the time to even think about posting such loads of shit like he posts.

Is he some kind of shut-in of something, with no life?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group