Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:23 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 127 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Dweezil's 'Lengthy' Blog
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:14 am
Posts: 3134
I, for one, do get a glint of what you must feel you're up against when reading this shared anecdote of yours.
I put this here so others who might not troll the zpz pages, can get a fix on that too. Thanx fer posting!!

5 September 2007
A funny thing happened on the way to soundcheck... AKA a lengthy blog.

Hello Friends,
At our recent show in San Diego I overheard a ridiculous conversation prior to sound-check by 2 local in house crew guys. I was outside my dressing room and could hear their on stage confabulation. I will refer to them as Dude 1 and 2 for ease of communication.

Dude 1 said to Dude 2, "Who's playing tonight"? "Frank Zappa's kid," replied Dude 2. "Who's that?" said Dude 1. "You never heard of Frank Zappa?" replied Dude 2. Dude 1, "No." Dude 2, "Dude, he's like the first guy to rap in the 70's." Dude 1, "That's cool". Dude 2, "His kid has a tribute band"... and scene.

I found this tête-à-tête to be equal parts humorous and disturbing. The humor is obvious but what disturbs me is perhaps less easily discernible. Frank was once asked, "How would you like to be remembered"? He said. "I wouldn't." I feel strongly that if people are to remember him that he at least be remembered for the things that genuinely defined him as a human being and as a composer/musician.

While it may be true that Frank has performed vocal monologues in several of his songs replete with particular idiosyncratic rhythmic scansion, I would unequivocally say that being "Like the first guy to rap in the 70's" is about the lamest and most inappropriate way to convey Frank's overall image to others and insults his real musical achievements.

There have been studies showing that an average person who enjoys music but knows very little about the technical side of it can determine the difference in the level of skill of a novice musician up to a competent musician. In other words on a scale of 1 to 10 they can hear a big difference between the caliber of a 1 and a 5. Past that, from 5 to 10, the subtleties, maturity and sophistication of a truly gifted musician are not easily recognized.

This is alarming information. From 5-10 everything seems to all sound "good" or of the same level of skill. That study has to account for the content of some of these endless lists of the top 100 greatest songs/albums of all time and the proliferation of mediocrity.

The aforementioned "Dudes" have obviously had very little exposure to Frank and his music. That's the biggest part of the problem right there. But what little they have had shows exactly how bad the lack of fundamental music appreciation and knowledge there is out there in the world today. Especially as it relates to Frank.

I guess I better get out my Krunk Goblet for my tribute and pull down my over-sized pants to expose the top of my underwear, hike up one pant leg to expose my calf and incessantly repeat the phrase, "Uh, Uh, Yeah, Dweezil in the house" over every part of every one of Frank's songs. People would really get it then. That would be "dope".

Or I could become a special amalgamation of disrespect and delusion. I could talk about imaginary reasons why I have been selected to keep the music alive while making sweeping changes to the all songs, omitting integral parts and replacing them with parts that I wrote myself while pretending to be Frank and having the gall to think I actually made some improvements to his music. Now that's a tribute! That would be "doper".

I felt compelled to share this with all of you because as I have mentioned before, I am touring Frank's music because it is a true labor of love for me. My goal is to expose it to more people and hopefully provide some educational elements through diversity in musical selection. This is not just so people can hear the music again or for the first time, but so they can hear what really makes Frank different from other composers/musicians/record producers. I think his accomplishments have been misunderstood or unrecognized due to lack of exposure for far too long. Onstage I let his music speak for itself.

I don't know about you but just hearing compositions like "G-Spot Tornado," "Dog/Meat" and "Brown Shoes Don't Make It" and realizing that at one point it was all just an idea in one man's mind before it was fully realized on a disc of some sort and unleashed on the world, is fascinating and inspiring.

After we played "Dog/Meat" on stage recently, someone yelled out, "Who writes like that?!?" He kept clapping and shaking his head. Clearly he was experiencing what I am talking about. The realization that this music is unique and very satisfying to all of your senses. Especially in a live situation. By the way, the answer to that guy's question for those of you keeping score at home, only one man - Frank Zappa.

Having said that, I also want you to know that I work very hard to present Frank's actual arrangements at all times. What that means is that we play only what Frank intended to be played. It's that simple. If it's on a live recording or a studio recording we learn the song as it exists on the record. If something other than that appears on stage it's utterly by accident during a live performance. There are moments where monologues may change to reflect things that are part of ZPZ's own folklore but this is in keeping with Frank's own live show architecture, so, therefore acceptable to me. We never change the notes! We have manuscripts in Frank's own handwriting to reference and access to master tapes. We forensically dissect things when necessary and make extremely accurate transcriptions if no manuscript can be found/exists. That's the process.

I have constructed a couple of Hybrid arrangements of a few songs for the tour. But they are comprised of elements that Frank arranged originally and are then composited into one performance. I certainly leave room for improvisation in the sections that are meant to be improvised but beyond that I intentionally do not change the arrangements or the music. There is no reason to do so.

I contend that Frank's music continuously evolved under his baton. Unfortunately he can no longer waive that baton. It is not my responsibility to change, add, or continuously reinterpret Frank's music in an attempt to make it evolve. And it most certainly is not anyone else's either. His music deserves to continue into the future as he created it. I am just trying to create an opportunity and an environment for discovery for all of Frank's existing fans as well as potential new ones. I want all of you to be able to hear his music, respectfully played and with his best intentions in mind.

I greatly appreciate all of your support in this endeavor. I will see you at the next show.

Regards, DZ
POSTED BY DWEEZIL ZAPPA AT 2007-09-05 10:33:16

_________________
" . . . On the outside now . . ."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:35 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:40 pm
Posts: 2342
Sounds like he thinks as highly about RAP as I do. It's dog shit. He obviously took offense to those comments.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:36 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9574
Location: EINDHOVEN
Never mix up a music element with a lifestyle or commercial gimmick. Actually the first thing that crossed my mind when I read that passage., was that I read a book on FZ, not sure which, that considered Trouble Every Day a rap song.
Which is not as odd a statement as it sounds if you feel rap is speaking to the beat of music, whether or not improvised.

And Dweez: actually it's much worse than you think. Zappa is often considered to be a "singer with a moustache".

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 5691
Location: Closer than I Appear
If I were Dweezil I wouldn't worry too much about people remembering Frank as a rapper. I've heard non-fans refer to him in a lot of ludicrous ways ("porn rock", "novelty artist", "asshole"), but "rapper" is so far off the charts it's actually funny. I don't think there's any danger that this is a widely held belief.

_________________
Let's hear it again for the London Philharmonic Orchestra!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 10:08 am
Posts: 269
Location: A tire in the ocean
Ah...I heart Dweezil. Nicest moderately famous human being currently using up energy.


Although admittedly, hearing him say "Uh-uh, Dweezil in tha house" would be fucking awesome, as long as the band broke into "G-Spot Tornado" right after.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 12:41 pm
Posts: 13750
Location: Billy, the mountain...
IMHO, music is not a static entity. Music which will last through ages (and I believe Frank's music will) inevitably will be revisited and rearranged for future musical contexts. If Frank's music is not performed by third parties, it will eventually become more obscure than it already is, though...

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 3:49 pm
Posts: 1807
Location: The White Zone
Less blogging, more DVDing.

_________________
There isn't much chance that you'll get people to like you. The best that most folks can hope for is that people will put up with their shit. MTF

Revel in your otherness. MK

STILL pissed at Tipper. VCF


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:52 pm
Posts: 699
Location: The United States
Quote:
Or I could become a special amalgamation of disrespect and delusion. I could talk about imaginary reasons why I have been selected to keep the music alive while making sweeping changes to the all songs, omitting integral parts and replacing them with parts that I wrote myself while pretending to be Frank and having the gall to think I actually made some improvements to his music. Now that's a tribute! That would be "doper".


I'm not entirely educated on the relationship between Ike Willis and The ZFT, but is that paragraph a reference to Project/Object? Has Ike really done that, changed the songs up with parts he wrote?

I don't want a debate on which one is better, just the question to be answered. Trendmonger, fuck off and dont even try to answer this question, I know you've already got the first 9 paragraphs written.

_________________
"Once you go black, you never go back."
--Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 5691
Location: Closer than I Appear
Joe Mama wrote:
Quote:
Or I could become a special amalgamation of disrespect and delusion. I could talk about imaginary reasons why I have been selected to keep the music alive while making sweeping changes to the all songs, omitting integral parts and replacing them with parts that I wrote myself while pretending to be Frank and having the gall to think I actually made some improvements to his music. Now that's a tribute! That would be "doper".


I'm not entirely educated on the relationship between Ike Willis and The ZFT, but is that paragraph a reference to Project/Object? Has Ike really done that, changed the songs up with parts he wrote?

I don't want a debate on which one is better, just the question to be answered. Trendmonger, fuck off and dont even try to answer this question, I know you've already got the first 9 paragraphs written.


Sounds to me a little more like a reference to Ed Palermo - he truly does rearrange the music. P/O really just adds a lot of spontaneity and improv to their performances, without essentially changing the pieces.

_________________
Let's hear it again for the London Philharmonic Orchestra!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6267
Location: Your Mom's Box
Joe Mama wrote:
Quote:
Or I could become a special amalgamation of disrespect and delusion. I could talk about imaginary reasons why I have been selected to keep the music alive while making sweeping changes to the all songs, omitting integral parts and replacing them with parts that I wrote myself while pretending to be Frank and having the gall to think I actually made some improvements to his music. Now that's a tribute! That would be "doper".


I'm not entirely educated on the relationship between Ike Willis and The ZFT, but is that paragraph a reference to Project/Object? Has Ike really done that, changed the songs up with parts he wrote?

I don't want a debate on which one is better, just the question to be answered. Trendmonger, fuck off and dont even try to answer this question, I know you've already got the first 9 paragraphs written.


hahaaahahahahahahahaahahahaaaaahahahaaaaaaaaaa

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:40 pm
Posts: 6938
Location: South wales
frank zappa modern day composer.first ever rapper :wink:

_________________
Arf you out of your fucking mind.Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:52 pm
Posts: 699
Location: The United States
Quote:
Sounds to me a little more like a reference to Ed Palermo - he truly does rearrange the music. P/O really just adds a lot of spontaneity and improv to their performances, without essentially changing the pieces.


yeah but there's that bit about "imaginary reasons as to why I was supposed to continue the music" seems like a reference to Ike Willis's bit where he said Frank told him to play the music or something?

_________________
"Once you go black, you never go back."
--Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 3566
feetlightup wrote:
Joe Mama wrote:
Quote:
Or I could become a special amalgamation of disrespect and delusion. I could talk about imaginary reasons why I have been selected to keep the music alive while making sweeping changes to the all songs, omitting integral parts and replacing them with parts that I wrote myself while pretending to be Frank and having the gall to think I actually made some improvements to his music. Now that's a tribute! That would be "doper".


I'm not entirely educated on the relationship between Ike Willis and The ZFT, but is that paragraph a reference to Project/Object? Has Ike really done that, changed the songs up with parts he wrote?

I don't want a debate on which one is better, just the question to be answered. Trendmonger, fuck off and dont even try to answer this question, I know you've already got the first 9 paragraphs written.


Sounds to me a little more like a reference to Ed Palermo - he truly does rearrange the music. P/O really just adds a lot of spontaneity and improv to their performances, without essentially changing the pieces.


I'd say it's directed at Ike.
As for Palermo, I really don't think he changes things all that much.
Of course he must arrange it for a 15 piece or whatever jazz band, but I find the renditions faithful/respectful. Maybe he messed around on a couple tunes (big whoop), but of any band playing FZ, this is the guy that deserves ZFT endorsement. God Bless Him.

Edit: well, Gail DID allow 2 albums worth of material without much fuss get out there, so, in a way...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2243
Y'know, Zappa HAS had some influence on Rap, especially modern rap. I think it's an interesting statement on the part of whoever said it... the first thing I can think of that's in anyway like Rap would be 'I'm The Slime' though 'Trouble' was sorta halfsung/ half spoken in a way that's not really like Sprechesstime and more in line with some rap performances.

Quote:
Or I could become a special amalgamation of disrespect and delusion. I could talk about imaginary reasons why I have been selected to keep the music alive while making sweeping changes to the all songs, omitting integral parts and replacing them with parts that I wrote myself while pretending to be Frank and having the gall to think I actually made some improvements to his music. Now that's a tribute! That would be "doper".


Now, when you say something like that, how can you possibly defend Zappa's performance of Bolero? He changed SHIT LOADS. Or, y'know, his performances of 'Octandre', 'Handsome Cabin Boy', etc... I know many people who feel he should have just left those alone. I don't agree, but I'd say that Zappa was sorta guilty of the above.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:46 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9574
Location: EINDHOVEN
FeralCats wrote:
Y'know, Zappa HAS had some influence on Rap, especially modern rap. I think it's an interesting statement on the part of whoever said it... the first thing I can think of that's in anyway like Rap would be 'I'm The Slime' though 'Trouble' was sorta halfsung/ half spoken in a way that's not really like Sprechesstime and more in line with some rap performances.

Quote:
Or I could become a special amalgamation of disrespect and delusion. I could talk about imaginary reasons why I have been selected to keep the music alive while making sweeping changes to the all songs, omitting integral parts and replacing them with parts that I wrote myself while pretending to be Frank and having the gall to think I actually made some improvements to his music. Now that's a tribute! That would be "doper".


Now, when you say something like that, how can you possibly defend Zappa's performance of Bolero? He changed SHIT LOADS. Or, y'know, his performances of 'Octandre', 'Handsome Cabin Boy', etc... I know many people who feel he should have just left those alone. I don't agree, but I'd say that Zappa was sorta guilty of the above.


Not to mention the terrible renditions of Bizet's Toreador and Habanera from Carmen suite on Automatic.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 2:43 am
Posts: 538
Location: Oslo, Norway
BBP wrote:
And Dweez: actually it's much worse than you think. Zappa is often considered to be a "singer with a moustache".


It could be much worse. He could be considered to be a "singer without a moustache".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:52 pm
Posts: 699
Location: The United States
Quote:
Y'know, Zappa HAS had some influence on Rap, especially modern rap. I think it's an interesting statement on the part of whoever said it... the first thing I can think of that's in anyway like Rap would be 'I'm The Slime' though 'Trouble' was sorta halfsung/ half spoken in a way that's not really like Sprechesstime and more in line with some rap performances.


uh, he did sprechesstime and did rap occassionally (Dumb All Over comes to mind). But I doubt any rapper out there would honestly name FZ as an influence, MF Doom (who samples "Would You Like a Snack on his Mm...Food album)) being an exception.

Quote:

hahaaahahahahahahahaahahahaaaaahahahaaaaaaaaaa


So you think I'm funny ha? Funny in what way? Am I your personal fucking clown or something?

_________________
"Once you go black, you never go back."
--Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2243
Joe Mama wrote:
Quote:
Y'know, Zappa HAS had some influence on Rap, especially modern rap. I think it's an interesting statement on the part of whoever said it... the first thing I can think of that's in anyway like Rap would be 'I'm The Slime' though 'Trouble' was sorta halfsung/ half spoken in a way that's not really like Sprechesstime and more in line with some rap performances.


uh, he did sprechesstime and did rap occassionally (Dumb All Over comes to mind). But I doubt any rapper out there would honestly name FZ as an influence, MF Doom (who samples "Would You Like a Snack on his Mm...Food album)) being an exception.


A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, and Funkadelic/ Parliament claimed him as an influence.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5918
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Joe Mama wrote:
Joe Mama wrote:
Trendmonger, fuck off and dont even try to answer this question, I know you've already got the first 9 paragraphs written.
jaypfunk wrote:
hahaaahahahahahahahaahahahaaaaahahahaaaaaaaaaa

So you think I'm funny ha? Funny in what way? Am I your personal fucking clown or something?

Relax mate, he thought your comment about Trendmonger was funny as I'm sure many others will do as well. That's why he highlighted that particular part in red.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:52 pm
Posts: 699
Location: The United States
Quote:
Relax mate, he thought your comment about Trendmonger was funny as I'm sure many others will do as well. That's why he highlighted that particular part in red.



Hahaha I wasn't being serious, mate. It was a reference to goodfellas, which I was watching when I wrote that. Jayp often references the "Go get your fuckin shinebox" line from that movie, so I figured he'd understand it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twW_riHWz_4.

there ya go.

_________________
"Once you go black, you never go back."
--Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 7021
Location: exile
dweezil wrote:
I could become a special amalgamation of disrespect and delusion. I could talk about imaginary reasons why I have been selected to keep the music alive while making sweeping changes to all the songs, omitting integral parts and replacing them with parts that I wrote myself while pretending to be Frank and having the gall to think I actually made some improvements to his music.


well said, dweezil. 8)

_________________
"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5918
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Joe Mama wrote:
Quote:
Relax mate, he thought your comment about Trendmonger was funny as I'm sure many others will do as well. That's why he highlighted that particular part in red.

Hahaha I wasn't being serious, mate. It was a reference to goodfellas, which I was watching when I wrote that. Jayp often references the "Go get your fuckin shinebox" line from that movie, so I figured he'd understand it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twW_riHWz_4
there ya go.

I thought you might be joking, but it wasn't obvious as I'm not familiar with the lines you were using.

I clicked the link and got the message "The url contained a malformed video id". I figured out it's the period you've got at the end of the url, if you go back and delete it the link will work.

The guy in the clip is a full on psycho. I've met people like that before, they're not easy to be around.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 3566
Lumpy Gravy wrote:
dweezil wrote:
I could become a special amalgamation of disrespect and delusion. I could talk about imaginary reasons why I have been selected to keep the music alive while making sweeping changes to all the songs, omitting integral parts and replacing them with parts that I wrote myself while pretending to be Frank and having the gall to think I actually made some improvements to his music.


well said, dweezil. 8)


What is well said? "Sweeping changes to all the songs." It's delusional.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:07 pm
Posts: 5691
Location: Closer than I Appear
Joe Mama wrote:
Quote:
Sounds to me a little more like a reference to Ed Palermo - he truly does rearrange the music. P/O really just adds a lot of spontaneity and improv to their performances, without essentially changing the pieces.


yeah but there's that bit about "imaginary reasons as to why I was supposed to continue the music" seems like a reference to Ike Willis's bit where he said Frank told him to play the music or something?


Methinks you're right. I missed that veiled reference on the first read.

_________________
Let's hear it again for the London Philharmonic Orchestra!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6267
Location: Your Mom's Box
Joe Mama wrote:
Quote:
Y'know, Zappa HAS had some influence on Rap, especially modern rap. I think it's an interesting statement on the part of whoever said it... the first thing I can think of that's in anyway like Rap would be 'I'm The Slime' though 'Trouble' was sorta halfsung/ half spoken in a way that's not really like Sprechesstime and more in line with some rap performances.


uh, he did sprechesstime and did rap occassionally (Dumb All Over comes to mind). But I doubt any rapper out there would honestly name FZ as an influence, MF Doom (who samples "Would You Like a Snack on his Mm...Food album)) being an exception.

Quote:

hahaaahahahahahahahaahahahaaaaahahahaaaaaaaaaa


So you think I'm funny ha? Funny in what way? Am I your personal fucking clown or something?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oP1NMB_I0s

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 127 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group