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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:29 am 
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KAPT.KIRK wrote:
8) BBP,Thanks so much! I used to watch the river flow.Now I see the need for dams! I have a roomy who thought it was cool to give my e-mail to a friend for sweepstakes and whatever!! Explains so much! I have told them both,This is how you find BBP and if it's cool she will let you know! I take it the're to shy to ask :lol: Oh yeah,they also thought it would stop,by sending back insulting e-mails! I try'ed to tell them, now they know they have a real site! Answer-Who are they? :x They now must read BBP's post ,about this before I"ll give them a hotmail e-mail address! :wink:


It's no good mailing them back of course; they manage to send them through a fake address. So the address in the "From" box, is never the address they use.
Often, spammers use a real person's address. Nothing an owner can do about that. I've even found spam in my inbox that was mailed by "me".

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:28 am 
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SPIEGEL ONLINE
08/21/2008 01:00 PM
ZAPPA V. BACH
The Legal Battle for Rock Legacy

By Sebastian Knauer

The Zappa Family Trust may be willing to compromise in its legal battle against the annual Frank Zappa festival Zappanale in northern Germany. And when it comes to battling Bach, the rock legend's heirs have changed course.

It was an unlikely spot for music history to be written. The scene was room 157 of a state courthouse in the Western German town of Düsseldorf on Wednesday. There, lawyers for the two sides were asked to present their sides of the story -- a story which pitted the Zappa Family Trust against the annual German music festival Zappanale.

A Frank Zappa festival in Germany has fallen afoul of the rock legend's widow. But a settlement may be in sight.
AP

A Frank Zappa festival in Germany has fallen afoul of the rock legend's widow. But a settlement may be in sight.
It is far from the first courtroom appearance for the Los Angeles-based Zappa Family Trust (ZFT), which is headed up by rock legend Frank Zappa's widow Gail. Indeed, the group has set its German and American lawyers on all manner of different bands and cover groups that have dedicated themselves to Zappa's musical legacy.

The case against the founders of Zappanale, which takes place every year in the north-eastern German town of Bad Doberan, is more complicated. It is a case about trademark rights and copyright -- of Zappa songs, of Zappa products, and of the famous Zappa moustache, a slightly altered version of which the not-for-profit Zappanale uses in its promotional materials. The Düsseldorf legal practice of Reimann, Osterrieth, Köhler, Haft argues on behalf of the Zappa Family Trust that the Zappanale should not be allowed to use the Zappa name on any of the T-shirts or CD's sold at the festival. Indeed, the lawyers argue, the festival shouldn't be able to use the Zappa name at all.

'Hurdles in Our Path'

In November, the plaintiffs demanded that the organizers of the Zappanale be forced to pay a €250,000 penalty or be sent to jail for two years should the festival or the related "Arf-Society" refuse to comply. Despite the threat, 18 bands took to the stage in the 19th annual Zappanale last weekend.

Following the Wednesday arguments in Düsseldorf, it is now up to the court to find an adequate solution -- one that weighs both the interests of Zappa's legacy and that of the Zappanale -- the "biggest Zappa festival in the world," the organizers claim. The Zappanale people also claim that Frank Zappa himself gave his backing to the festival during a meeting in the 1990s in Amsterdam. Some in Zappa's family will deny the meeting ever took place, but Wolfhard Kutz, the Zappanale treasurer, says it is time for Gail Zappa to give up.

"His widow should finally stop putting hurdles in our path and help us further promote this fantastic music," he says. Kutz, who grew up in East Germany, was even persecuted by the East German secret police, the Stasi, for being a Zappa fan. In his file, which SPIEGEL has seen, it says that Kutz "knows how to influence the youth with Zappa."

Such moral arguments, though, carry little weight in the courtroom. But the Zappanale may not need them. Early on in the proceedings, the defendants pointed out that the Zappa Family Trust trademark may not still be valid in Germany. The ZFT only sells its products online and buyers may only pay in US dollars. There is no ZFT office anywhere in Europe.

"That makes things interesting," says Zappanale spokesman Thomas Dippel. Dippel is also president of the Arf Society, which is intimately involved in organizing the Zappanale. He and his lawyers have now filed a counter-claim asking the court to declare the Zappa trademark to have expired, retroactive to August 1, 2007. If trademarks aren't used for five years, they are lost, and Zappanale argues that the Zappa Family Trust has not been using the trademark in Germany. Were the court to agree, Zappa's moustache would become the property of Zappanale. ZFT lawyers have responded by asking for another hearing, one which Gail Zappa herself might fly in for.

'We Are Zappa Fans'

The two sides now have some six weeks to come up with an out-of-court settlement. And the Zappa Family Trust may be willing to compromise. ZFT lawyers now say that the Zappanale can use the Zappa name if they brand the festival as "Zappa music and more." Johannes Vogel, a lawyer for Zappanale, isn't convinced. "They want to see money. That's it," he told SPIEGEL ONLINE.

A bust of Frank Zappa decorates the town center of Bad Doberan, where the Zappanale is held every year.
DPA

A bust of Frank Zappa decorates the town center of Bad Doberan, where the Zappanale is held every year.
Dippel and Kutz, for their part, insist that they are not interested in denying Gail Zappa's right to protect the Zappa legacy from abuse. The festival pays the requisite fees for each and every song performed in Bad Doberan. Organizers also make sure that all taxes are covered for the international numbers that fly in for the party, many coming from as far away as the US, South America and Asia. Indeed, each year the Zappanale doesn't lose money is considered a success. "We haven't become millionaires so far," says Dippel. "We are Zappa fans."

The festival has, however, begun looking beyond the site in Bad Doberan. Last week, Zappanale organizers put on a show at St. Katharinen church in Hamburg called "Zappa Plays for Bach." Some 600 guests showed up for a performance of variations on the famous Goldberg Variations. Indeed, improvisation is one quality Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750) shares with his colleague Frank Zappa (1940-1993).

All proceeds from the concert went to the Hamburg foundation Stiftung Johann Sebastian, which is trying to raise money to recondition a Barock organ on which Bach played in 1720. And it was a fantastic show -- with nine musicians from the Florida group Bogus Pomp playing together with the former Zappa saxophone player Napoleon Murphy Brock putting on pieces ranging from "Absolutely Free Medley" to "Chunga's Revenge" to "Idiot Bastard Son."

But prior to the show, the Stiftung Johann Sebastian also received a letter from Zappa Family Trust lawyers threatening legal measures if the performance went ahead. The ZFT mistakenly thought that the church was planning a performance of Zappa's orchestral work "Yellowshark," and the letter warned that Gail Zappa had not given her permission for such a performance.

'Victory of Music over Legalese'

"It is always difficult to deal with widows who manage the legacy of their husbands," says Karsten Jahnke, one of Germany's largest event organizers. All too often, he says, money becomes the primary goal.

Even Stanley Jackson Zappa, a nephew of Frank Zappa's who played tenor saxophone at this year's Zappanale finds his aunt's efforts "crazy and sick." A big band collaboration between a German radio station and the London conductor Colin Towns likewise had to be torpedoed. The distribution of a CD with Zappa arrangements was stopped after a legal challenge.

"Bach and Zappa are gods for me. A combination of the two is a fantastic idea I think," says experienced concert organizer Fritz Rau, who came to Hamburg for the show. Rau has had his hand in tours by such big names as the Rolling Stones and Bob Dylan and also helped out with a Frank Zappa tour once. Rau hopes that the Düsseldorf trial will result in a "victory of music over legalese."

When it comes to the Hamburg concert, though, Gail Zappa proved quick to back down. The organizers of the St. Katharinen concert recently received an e-mail from her with the subject line "Hot Piping Organs." "It is a wonderful idea to preserve such an instrument, even if Frank Zappa was never in this church," she wrote.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:08 pm 
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Officer Butzis wrote:
Served with papers they may have been. But Zappanale19 was a fantastic weekend of music!!

Long live Zappanale...... :o


I'll second that!!

Check out my performance with Low Budget Research Kitchen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pWhsnESYP0

I might be movin' to Bad Doberan soon!!

xxx
DD

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:51 pm 
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YES! The Zappanale and the true spirit of FZ and his music are about to beat the ZFT.

Well, I hope DZ makes the right decision and will join the line up of the Zappanale with ZPZ next year... it would make so much more sense than suing the festival...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:09 am 
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That performance was fuckin' A on a whole wheat bun! Great stuff DD, but where was xyqa? I guess she was diggin' what was happening.

:lol:

(a copy of my post from the other thread, which is fucked up by the extra blank pages)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:08 am 
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Uncle Bernie wrote:
That performance was fuckin' A on a whole wheat bun! Great stuff DD, but where was xyqa? I guess she was diggin' what was happening.

:lol:

(a copy of my post from the other thread, which is fucked up by the extra blank pages)


I talked to xyqa yesterday - she had been considering performing on stage too but lost her nerve. She said she was even considering coming to one of my band rehearsals beforehand so she could practice getting comfortable with a microphone, but sadly that never happened because I forgot to return her call a few weeks ago. Ah well.

BTW, I'm glad you're still getting mileage out of my phrase!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:17 pm 
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feetlightup wrote:
BTW, I'm glad you're still getting mileage out of my phrase!


Yep, it's a beaut :wink:

Next time you see xyqa can you ask her where my FZ beer labels are!?

cheers


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:30 pm 
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debutante_daisy wrote:
Officer Butzis wrote:
Served with papers they may have been. But Zappanale19 was a fantastic weekend of music!!

Long live Zappanale...... :o


I'll second that!!

Check out my performance with Low Budget Research Kitchen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pWhsnESYP0

I might be movin' to Bad Doberan soon!!

xxx
DD


Too cool!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:12 am 
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Lithuania donated one to the city of Baltimore. Anybody know when and where they will place it? I'd like to go. Apparently it is approved by ZFT.


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 Post subject: singing at zappanale
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:54 am 
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feetlightup wrote:
Uncle Bernie wrote:
That performance was fuckin' A on a whole wheat bun! Great stuff DD, but where was xyqa? I guess she was diggin' what was happening.

:lol:

(a copy of my post from the other thread, which is fucked up by the extra blank pages)


I talked to xyqa yesterday - she had been considering performing on stage too but lost her nerve. She said she was even considering coming to one of my band rehearsals beforehand so she could practice getting comfortable with a microphone, but sadly that never happened because I forgot to return her call a few weeks ago. Ah well.

BTW, I'm glad you're still getting mileage out of my phrase!


It's all your fault FLU!! I begged her to sing with me but I got the glory all to myself. It was a complete blast!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:55 am 
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OH I was there...shy? yes.... but would not leave daisy with out huge love and watching in total awe!!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:52 am 
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The ZFT apparently received a (final?) extension of a court date to take place January 14, 2009.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:45 am 
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Holy Smokes, look who's booked for #20:

Napoleon Murphy Brock
Don Preston
Ike Willis
Denny Walley
Robert Martin
Roy Estrada
Terry Bozzio
Peter Wolf


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:44 am 
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brainpang wrote:
Holy Smokes, look who's booked for #20:

Napoleon Murphy Brock
Don Preston
Ike Willis
Denny Walley
Robert Martin
Roy Estrada
Terry Bozzio
Peter Wolf


Holy Crap, Daevid Allen/Gong & Steve Hillage are booked as well....too bad I will never attend.

btw, the court date/decision has been rescheduled for 1/21 due to a judge being ill.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:44 am 
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I think the headline sez: Zappa Widow Loses...
but then I may be wrong. Anyone?

Zappa-Witwe verliert «Zappanale»-Streit

Düsseldorf (dpa) - Die Witwe des US-Rockmusikers Frank Zappa hat einen Prozess um das deutsche Musikfestival «Zappanale» und den Bart ihres Mannes verloren. Das Düsseldorfer Landgericht wies die Zivilklage Gail Zappas am Mittwoch ab.

Die Witwe wollte verhindern, dass das Festival weiter unter dem Namen «Zappanale» ausgerichtet wird. Sie sah darin Markenrechte verletzt. Auch das Logo, das einen stilisierten Bart Zappas (1940-1993, «Bobby Brown») darstellt, verletze Markenrechte, hatten die Zappa-Anwälte behauptet.

Beides sah das Gericht anders: Die Klägerin habe nicht nachweisen können, dass sie ihre Wortmarke «Zappa» in Deutschland ernsthaft nutzt. Die Website in englischer Sprache mit Preisen in US-Dollar für Zappa-Devotionalien reiche als Nachweis nicht aus. Bei der Bildmarke, dem stilisierten Bart Zappas, seien die Unterschiede zum Festival- Logo so groß, dass keine Verwechslungsgefahr bestehe. Die 19. «Zappanale» hatte im vergangenen Jahr in Bad Doberan (Mecklenburg-Vorpommern) 6800 Besucher angezogen.

Der Vorsitzende der Festival-Veranstalterin Arf Society, Thomas Dippel, zeigte sich nach dem Urteilsspruch «sehr zufrieden». Die 20. «Jubiläums-Zappanale» könne wie geplant in diesem Jahr stattfinden. Man werde freiwillig den Zusatz «Zappa Music and more» anfügen, auf den man sich bei den Vergleichsverhandlungen mit den Zappa-Anwälten geeinigt hatte. Die Verhandlungen waren dennoch gescheitert.

Die Witwe Zappas hatte in ihrer Zivilklage gegen den einzigen deutschen Zappa-Fanclub erklärt, sie habe in den USA den Eindruck gewonnen, der Name ihres Mannes werde als «Hingucker» für zum Teil völlig andere Musik benutzt. Der Rechtsvertreter des Fan-Clubs, Johannes Vogel, betonte, das Festival sei eindeutig «zappaesk».


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:35 am 
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YES!!! Justice!!
(translation by YT. I'm Dutch, so it's far from perfect. Wann Du Deutsch bist, bitte sag es wenn ich ein Fehler mache.


Zappa-widow loses Zappanale-battle.

Düsseldorf (dpa) - The widow of US rockmusician Frank Zappa has lost a trial on the German music festival Zappanale and the beard of her husband. The Düsseldorf court rejected Gail Zappa's complaint on Wednesday.

The widow wanted to prevent that the festival would still be held under the name of Zappanale. She saw a trademark breech. Also their logo, that is made of a styled Zappa (1940-1993, Bobby Brown) beard, breached trademarks, the Zappa lawyers claimed.

Both of these were disagreed upon by the court: the plaintiff couldn't prove that she seriously uses the brand "Zappa" in Germany. The website in English, with prices in US-dollars for Zappa-devotees did not matter. With the logo, the styled Zappa beard, the difference with the Zappanale logo was so big that there would be no danger of mixing up. The 19th Zappanale had drawn 6800 visitors last year in Bad Doberan (Mecklenburg-Vorpommern).

The president of the festival-organiser Arf Society, Thomas Dippel, was "very satisfied" with the verdict. The 20th Jubilee Zappanale can take place this year, as planned. They will voluntarily add the title "Zappa Music and more", on which they decided at negotiations with the Zappa lawyers. The negotiations were still aborted.

The Zappa widow had explained in her civil action against the only German Zappa-Fanclub, that she got the impression in the USA that the name of her husband was used to draw people to a festival that partially had different music. The attorney of the fan club, Johannes Vogel, emphasized that the festival was only "zappaesk".

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:39 pm 
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BBP wrote:
YES!!! Justice!!
(translation by YT. I'm Dutch, so it's far from perfect. Wann Du Deutsch bist, bitte sag es wenn ich ein Fehler mache.


Bonny, Deine Deutschkenntnisse sind wunderbar. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:52 pm 
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School Of Rock wurde auch verklagt. Gelesen bei TöteHässlichesRadio.

What a shame!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:00 pm 
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My_Name_Is_Fritz wrote:
BBP wrote:
YES!!! Justice!!
(translation by YT. I'm Dutch, so it's far from perfect. Wann Du Deutsch bist, bitte sag es wenn ich ein Fehler mache.


Bonny, Deine Deutschkenntnisse sind wunderbar. :mrgreen:


Vielen Dank, Fritz!Image

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:16 am 
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From Spiegel Online:

A German court has ruled that the Zappanale, a festival celebrating the music of rock legend Frank Zappa, does not violate the trademark held by Zappa's widow Gail. The moustache and soul patch can stay, too.

The Frank Zappa festival in Bad Doberan, Germany, known as the Zappanale, can continue. That's the verdict reached by a court in Düsseldorf on Wednesday. Furthermore, the festival may continue to use its logo depicting the American rock star's unique facial hair, his moustache-soul patch combo.

DPA
A giant bust of Frank Zappa graces the town center of Bad Doberan in northern Germany.
Frank Zappa's widow, Gail Zappa, filed the suit in early 2008 because of what she saw as a violation of the Zappa trademark. She sued the Arf Society, which organizes the annual Zappanale near the Baltic Sea coast and sells merchandise with its version of the Zappa logo, for €150,000 ($193,000) in damages plus a further €250,000 should the Zappanale continue selling Zappa merchandise.

But the court on Wednesday found that the Zappa Family Trust, which is headed by Gail Zappa, was unable to prove that it actively uses its trademark in Germany, a requirement for such lawsuits to win. Furthermore, the differences between the official Zappa logo and that used by the Zappanale, the court ruled, were great enough to preclude confusion of the two.

Thomas Dippel, who heads the Arf Society, told the German news agency dpa that he was "very satisfied" with the verdict and says he is looking forward to the 20th anniversary of the festival this summer. The Zappanale started as a small underground festival in East Germany in 1989 and now attracts fans from around the world for its mixture of Zappa cover bands and "Zappa-esque rock," as Dippel calls it. In 2008, almost 10,000 fans showed up.

The case centered on trademark infringement, but Gail Zappa told SPIEGEL ONLINE last April that she was particularly concerned that the Zappanale was not being adequately true to Frank Zappa's music. "My obligation, which I cannot be relieved of by anyone other than Frank Zappa, is to protect the intent and integrity of his music," she said. "That's my job. I have no choice."

Gail Zappa has been active in her pursuit of that mission and in recent years has filed suit against a number of Web sites selling unauthorized Zappa merchandise. Frank Zappa died of cancer in 1993.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:21 pm 
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In case anybody is interested. Here's the official press handout of the court in Düsseldorf.

http://www.lg-duesseldorf.nrw.de/presse ... /09-01.pdf

Among other things it says that ZFT's lawyers haven't proven Zappa is a trademark which is seriously used in Germany. So it seems everybody can use this name over here. The handout even got a link to www.zappa.com. :mrgreen:

I suppose ZFT will appeal.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:08 am 
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Thanks again Fritz! Great read!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:00 am 
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I am not a lawyer, but to a layman it seems as a ruling based on a strange premise. I guess you just can't argue "backwards" but it seems to imply that one can violate someone's trademark if it relates to a product not present already in the country.

So a German phamacist can safely rename his stores "Walgreens" since these (as far as I know, but this is also just an example) are not marketed in Germany?

Can I call my new band Rammstein because that German band is not very popular and/or doing active marketing in my country?

I am a bit puzzled.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:18 am 
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Now, that was interesting!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:47 am 
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HJ,

I don't think it can be limited to one point. Roughly: No one will confuse a festival calling itself Zappanalle for a Frank Zappa concert and no one will confuse the Arf Society flying bird mustache with the official ZFT mustache. They are dissimilar, plus no one in Germany (or anywhere, for that matter) would even be aware that the ZFT mustache signifies some stamp of approval or something.


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